What foot do you use to mark your starting spot on the lane?

[Tony]

I being a right hand bowler have always used my left foot to mark my starting spot on the lane and then moved my right foot back a little , toe even with instep of left foot and a couple inches to the right, and keep weight spread evenly between both feet.

Bowled with a guy who has been coaching high school kids for 35 years and has had a number of state champs (he s a bronze or silver coach). He told me with his students he had great results having them mark the starting position with the right foot then align the left foot heel with the toe of the right foot and start with more weight on the right foot and transfer that weight as you step with the first step.

I tried this and it felt quite strange with the foot position and weight. I can mark my spot with the right foot with no problem but I'm not sure how much help that might be in the long run.

What are your thoughts / observations on this alignment ? (4 step approach)

[TVan]

I use a 5 step approach as a right handed bowler. I use my left foot as my mark because I start my approach with that foot.

[Stormed1]

i also use my left foot to mark my starting spot

[RobLV1]

A right hander should always line up with the left foot on the approach. If you line up with your right foot and slide with your left foot, how can you tell if you are drifting during your approach?

[J Anderson]

As a coach, I reccommend that people line up using thier slide foot so its very simple to check for drift.

As a bowler, I got started with the habit of lining up with the inside edge of my right foot. Since my shoes are touching eachother, it's only a one board difference to check my drift when bowling righty. Obviously I'm doing it "right" lefty.

As for how to place the feet with respect to eachother, one size does not fit all. While most of us agree that the slide foot needs to be ahead of the other foot to set the proper angle for the hips, the distance depends on several factors. Most bowlers do well with an equal weight distribution in thier set-up/stance. Others are helped by having more weight on one foot than the other.

[AlexNC]

I use the inside of my left foot covering board "x"

[taxexpert2]

This is an interesting thread. Since I bowl both right and left due to a hand injury I had to think about this. I do line up with left foot on right handed throws but I think I may also line up with left foot on left handed throws. I will have to check. I bowl mostly right but keep left in practice for the time when I can't bowl right any more.

[bowl1820]

The standard method is using the inside edge of the slide foot. As others have said, You have to use the slide foot because helps in determining drift.

The inside edge of the slide foot is also where you typically measure your lay down point from.

http://s5.postimg.org/gt001lp53/startingfootposition.gif

(Note: Some consider the part of the slide foot that is used to line up on the approach such as the instep, toe, etc., is really just personal preference.

But since the standard (inside edge of the slide foot) method is the commonly taught method, it is a commonly (and taken for granted ) used reference point in most discussions of where you stand, slide, etc.

If you use a different point than that, you should mention it in discussion's. Because it could conceivably affect the discussion.)

[Aslan]

Toe of slide foot (left).

I see people (especially new bowlers) line up with their midsection of their body. They try to "stand over" the spot.

And that's why I say the worst thing you can hear from a new bowler is when you ask them where they start and where they target and they look at you like you're asking a question only Stephen Hawking can answer.

[billf]

Left foot for the reasons the others have stated above (drift).
My guess is this coach got his Bronze in the days of it's infancy and hasn't done a whole lot to stay up to date. I would also hazzard the guess that he is no longer an active coach. Probably deoesn't like two-handers either lol

[bowl1820]

Bowled with a guy who has been coaching high school kids for 35 years and has had a number of state champs (he s a bronze or silver coach). He told me with his students he had great results having them mark the starting position with the right foot then align the left foot heel with the toe of the right foot and start with more weight on the right foot and transfer that weight as you step with the first step.


What that's describing is Mo Pinel's "Shift Bowl Technique", But you don't do that to mark the starting position.

You can see it here, read the comments in that thread also:
http://www.bowlingboards.com/threads/11630-Shift-Bowl-Technique-as-taught-by-Mo-Pinel

[Tony]

What that's describing is Mo Pinel's "Shift Bowl Technique", But you don't do that to mark the starting position.

You can see it here, read the comments in that thread also:
http://www.bowlingboards.com/threads/11630-Shift-Bowl-Technique-as-taught-by-Mo-Pinel

Yes, that shift bowl looks like exactly what he was talking about. The marking with the other foot is another thing he said he has taught and uses with success (his description)
I couldn't stand like that all the time and don't, but did try it can see where it might be helpful teaching tool. The setting yourself up with the right foot feels very odd to me, tried it for a game and didn't really care for it.

[Perrin]

Toe of slide foot (left).

I see people (especially new bowlers) line up with their midsection of their body. They try to "stand over" the spot.

And that's why I say the worst thing you can hear from a new bowler is when you ask them where they start and where they target and they look at you like you're asking a question only Stephen Hawking can answer.

we had an older bowling coming back from a long break and struggling. when we asked what mark he was using he said he "didn't want to do anything fancy like aiming" and was just throwing the ball... LOL

[J Anderson]

we had an older bowling coming back from a long break and struggling. when we asked what mark he was using he said he "didn't want to do anything fancy like aiming" and was just throwing the ball... LOL

He must adhere to George Harrison's philosophy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IFf3Iupp-2o

[GeoLes]

Great question and answers! I am a righty, and have been using the outside of my foot to mark starting position, but see the good sense of measuring from the left foot (sliding foot) in order to track drift and slide. Part of my problem was initially I developed the bad habit of leaning too far right (not the same thing as dropping the shoulder). My successful solution is to place 80% weight on the left foot and check the hip alignment (my hip replacement 2 years ago didn't help) So again left foot placement makes sense.

The other side of the equation for me is where the ball hangs. I note the spot under my shoulder where ball swings which is about 5 boards away (what I call spotting the ball. for example my setup rolls the ball from 20 through 15, or fourth to third arrow).

To tie this to another thread, when I shoot 10-pin spare, depending on lane conditions, I have to begin abutting the ball return and angle my stride towards the left gutter or gutter cap-depending on the amount of turn in my flat ball) to run the ball flat through the 3rd arrow. Now left foot setup makes perfect sense in determining a straight walk.

[Tony]

Left foot for the reasons the others have stated above (drift).
My guess is this coach got his Bronze in the days of it's infancy and hasn't done a whole lot to stay up to date. I would also hazzard the guess that he is no longer an active coach. Probably deoesn't like two-handers either lol

Looking back I think his suggestions were specific to me when I bowled against him and he could see I was having a problem with my footwork. I have some medical issues that cause some foot problems for me and I had recently tried some new shoes that did not agree with me.
I think he got his bronze back when they were bowling with smooth rocks! lol

[Mike White]

You can use either foot to line yourself up with.

The feet aren't the important thing.

Where the ball is located is the important thing.

An easy example. You want to throw the ball straight down the 8 board.

Your break point is 8 board, your target at the arrows is 8 board, the ball should be directly over the 8 board at the release, and finally, the ball should be over the 8 board at the beginning of the approach.

To confirm you had the ball on line at the foul line you need to know how far the center of the ball is from your slide foot, so when you look down at your foot after the shot, you have a good idea where you released the ball.

Take that back to the beginning of the approach, with the ball above the 8 board, you have a comfortable place for both your right and left foot.

The offset for your right foot, or your left foot will be consistent at the beginning of the approach, but even if using the left that offset will NOT be the same as at the foul line.

As you start the approach your body is in a completely different position than at the foul line.

So you need to learn your foul line offset (from your slide foot), and your starting offset from whichever foot you use as reference.

When playing different launch angles, a little bit of math is required to have the ball at the beginning of the approach be on the same line as your target to break point.

Again, which foot you use as reference is optional.

[billf]

Mike your points are valid and I agree until the last sentence. It's only optional as long as you don't follow USBC Coaching guidelines, WTP, IOC or USOC guidelines. They all state edge of big toe on slide foot.

[Mike White]

Mike your points are valid and I agree until the last sentence. It's only optional as long as you don't follow USBC Coaching guidelines, WTP, IOC or USOC guidelines. They all state edge of big toe on slide foot.

Does the USBC, WTP, IOC or USOC give their reasons why the edge of the big toe on the slide foot is better than any other choice?

Or do they have the GOD complex and "We Have Spoken"

[RobLV1]

It has nothing to do with a God Complex, Mike. It's simply a matter of setting a standard with the left foot so that right handed bowlers can tell if they have drifted during the approach.

[Mike White]

It has nothing to do with a God Complex, Mike. It's simply a matter of setting a standard with the left foot so that right handed bowlers can tell if they have drifted during the approach.

You still need to know the offset between the center of the ball and your indicator foot for both the start of the approach, and the release.

You probably have thought using the slide foot was easier because USBC neglected to teach you that the offsets are different for almost everyone.

The approach is about swinging the ball in a vertical plane. Where the plane intersects with the lane/approach is a straight line.

Before the modern game and it's walled up conditions, keeping the ball on a straight line was important, because accuracy was important.

Now it's get it close, and the house shot will fix it.

To see the different offsets, place one ball on the floor, and put your slide foot next to it as if you were at the release point.

Then without moving your slide foot, pick up a second ball and position your non slide foot so you are in your starting position.

You will notice that where the ball starts at is not in the same vertical place as where the ball is released.

The path of the ball in your approach is what you need to be inline with your intended path of the ball on the lane.

Where your feet start at are secondary, and the method you use as reference is optional.

Dictating that it must be taught one way only is the God Complex.

[billf]

Mike,
Maybe you should go get certified before WRONGLY stating what the USBC is or isn't teaching. Sorry that the rest of the organized bowling world agreed to a standard that you don't like or agree with. See Mike, being that all those institutions came to an agreement and you stand alone calling all them wrong then you sir are the one with the God complex.
It's a shame too because you are smart just not always right like you seemingly think.

[bowl1820]

"the offset between the center of the ball and your indicator foot"

That's called the Lay Down Point and the USBC teaches that.

[vdubtx]

Again, which foot you use as reference is optional.

I have to agree with Mike. Which foot you line up with is optional, maybe not for the coaching population and the direction you want your students to go, but I think I do just fine lining up with my right foot.

[Mike White]

"the offset between the center of the ball and your indicator foot"

That's called the Lay Down Point and the USBC teaches that.

They teach you to know the offset at the release, but they don't at the start of the approach.

Once you've decided on a break point, and a target arrow, there is only one place at the foul line, and one place at the start of the approach where the ball needs to be located in order to be on the same vertical plane.

Based on the place at the foul line, you can determine where you need to slide at based on the release offset.

Same idea for the beginning of the approach, it just that the offset is different than the release offset.

USBC doesn't teach that offset, and you can be just as effective using the offset to the non slide foot as the slide foot.

[Mike White]

Mike,
Maybe you should go get certified before WRONGLY stating what the USBC is or isn't teaching. Sorry that the rest of the organized bowling world agreed to a standard that you don't like or agree with. See Mike, beinmg that all those institutions came to an agreement and you stand alone calling all them worn then you sir are the one with the God complex.
It's a shame too because you are smart just not always right like you seemingly think.

I'm not the one who says of two different equal methods, only one is acceptable.

I have plenty of people ask me for help with their bowling, and it's not because I am certified by USBC.

[billf]

I'm not the one who says of two different equal methods, only one is acceptable.



Several institutions agree to use one acceptable way. That is the very definition of a standard. I'm not saying your way is wrong or doens't work because it does. I am saying you seem to go against industry standards for reasons only known to you. Not sure if it's a God complex, issues with the USBC, WTBA or what. Sometimes it is infuriating, others just comical and at times enlightening.

[manke]

I think you can use either foot as long as you are consistant.

[RobLV1]

I think you can use either foot as long as you are consistant.

Regardless of how consistent you are, if you are right handed and line up with your right foot, how can you tell if you are drifting?

[Mike White]

Regardless of how consistent you are, if you are right handed and line up with your right foot, how can you tell if you are drifting?

The same way you tell if you're drifting when aligning with the slide foot.

Most likely you've been taught to determine if you are drifting incorrectly by assuming the ball is the same distance from your slide foot when you start, as when you release the ball.

While you may release the ball with the center of it 7 boards from your slide foot, it's unlikely in your starting position that the center of the ball is also 7 boards from your slide foot.

Combine that with if you are trying to release the ball in the left to right angle, you need to do a little math to be sure the BALL isn't drifting off of your intended path.

[fortheloveofbowling]

It makes no difference where the ball is in your stance. The ultimate determination is where the ball is when it passes your slide leg and the foul line.

A) Determine your setup board with your foot opposite your bowling arm.
B) Determine any deviation of that board at the end of your approach.
C) Determine the distance the ball passes away from your slide leg on a consistent basis.

This information will allow you to know where the ball is at the foul line upon delivery. With this information you can imagine your entire ball bath shot to shot. I watched Anthony Pepe throw 2 games yesterday on xtra frame. Every strike ball he literally split the same board with his slide foot EVERY SINGLE SHOT from the first to last. I can assure you that man knew exactly where that ball was every inch of the lane. I can't tell you how many times i have heard someone say i hit the same mark but got a different result. The reason was the hand eye coordination was good but they slid on a different board and didn't know it. The consistency of your approach is #1 in my opinion in trying to build a solid game.

[Mike White]

It makes no difference where the ball is in your stance. The ultimate determination is where the ball is when it passes your slide leg and the foul line.

A) Determine your setup board with your foot opposite your bowling arm.
B) Determine any deviation of that board at the end of your approach.
C) Determine the distance the ball passes away from your slide leg on a consistent basis.

This information will allow you to know where the ball is at the foul line upon delivery. With this information you can imagine your entire ball bath shot to shot. I watched Anthony Pepe throw 2 games yesterday on xtra frame. Every strike ball he literally split the same board with his slide foot EVERY SINGLE SHOT from the first to last. I can assure you that man knew exactly where that ball was every inch of the lane. I can't tell you how many times i have heard someone say i hit the same mark but got a different result. The reason was the hand eye coordination was good but they slid on a different board and didn't know it. The consistency of your approach is #1 in my opinion in trying to build a solid game.

Lets identify where the ball is located at 4 points.

A) Start of the approach
B) Release Point
C) Target Arrows
D) Break Point


What you are describing above is if you have A correct, but mess on up B, you're not going to hit C or D.

But by saying "It makes no difference where the ball is in your stance"

You are saying that point A is not important, only B, C and D.

That means a bowler can stand anywhere on the approach, an as long as they slide on the correct board, the shot is going to hit their target and breakpoint.

We both know that is absolutely false.

You get to select points C, and D (target and break points), points A, and B are calculated to be on that same line.

You then use the offset to determine if the ball is released on board B, your foot should slide on board B+X.

And if you start the ball over board A, your reference foot is placed based on a different offset A+Y.

X, and Y are not likely to be the same value, even if you use the slide foot in both cases.

Since you need to determine the value for Y in either case of using the right or left foot, it doesn't require an extra amount of work.

Assuming the value of y is equal to x, while using your slide foot as reference at the start leads to shots that felt correct (no apparent drift) yet miss the target inside.

Now if your slide ended on a board other than B+X, you know you've drifted.

[fortheloveofbowling]

lets identify where the ball is located at 4 points.

A) start of the approach
b) release point
c) target arrows
d) break point


what you are describing above is if you have a correct, but mess on up b, you're not going to hit c or d.

But by saying "it makes no difference where the ball is in your stance"

you are saying that point a is not important, only b, c and d.

That means a bowler can stand anywhere on the approach, an as long as they slide on the correct board, the shot is going to hit their target and breakpoint.

We both know that is absolutely false.

You get to select points c, and d (target and break points), points a, and b are calculated to be on that same line.

You then use the offset to determine if the ball is released on board b, your foot should slide on board b+x.

And if you start the ball over board a, your reference foot is placed based on a different offset a+y.

X, and y are not likely to be the same value, even if you use the slide foot in both cases.

Since you need to determine the value for y in either case of using the right or left foot, it doesn't require an extra amount of work.

Assuming the value of y is equal to x, while using your slide foot as reference at the start leads to shots that felt correct (no apparent drift) yet miss the target inside.

Now if your slide ended on a board other than b+x, you know you've drifted.

uh.....ok

[billf]

Mike, when you say start of the approach, where exactly are you checking it? Where the ball is in the stance will affect the swing plane just as if the hinge or push goes anywhere other than straight. I've had great success having the push or hinge go towards the non-ball side knee to increase launch angles.
Rob, I and others were stating line up with non-ball foot to check drift yet you are also adding swing plane to the equation. While I believe I understand what you're doing the distance the ball is laterally from any foot will be different throughout the swing unless that bowler is the exception that has a perfectly level swing plane the entire way then they obviously would not have the "pro loop".

[Doghouse Reilly]

uh.....ok

http://s9.postimg.org/c2iivoo7j/65247904.jpg

[fortheloveofbowling]

Mike, when you say start of the approach, where exactly are you checking it? Where the ball is in the stance will affect the swing plane just as if the hinge or push goes anywhere other than straight. I've had great success having the push or hinge go towards the non-ball side knee to increase launch angles.
Rob, I and others were stating line up with non-ball foot to check drift yet you are also adding swing plane to the equation. While I believe I understand what you're doing the distance the ball is laterally from any foot will be different throughout the swing unless that bowler is the exception that has a perfectly level swing plane the entire way then they obviously would not have the "pro loop".

That is why i said it doesn't matter where the ball is in your stance. Some people hold the ball outside their knee, over their knee, or more towards the middle of their body. As you stated, the push away can vary as well. Stephen Hawking is just getting ahead of himself. To me the reason why i want a consistent approach in regards to drift is so i know where my lay down is going to be or where i might want to change it to.

[fortheloveofbowling]

Lets identify where the ball is located at 4 points.

A) Start of the approach
B) Release Point
C) Target Arrows
D) Break Point


What you are describing above is if you have A correct, but mess on up B, you're not going to hit C or D.

But by saying "It makes no difference where the ball is in your stance"

You are saying that point A is not important, only B, C and D.

That means a bowler can stand anywhere on the approach, an as long as they slide on the correct board, the shot is going to hit their target and breakpoint.

We both know that is absolutely false.

You get to select points C, and D (target and break points), points A, and B are calculated to be on that same line.

You then use the offset to determine if the ball is released on board B, your foot should slide on board B+X.

And if you start the ball over board A, your reference foot is placed based on a different offset A+Y.

X, and Y are not likely to be the same value, even if you use the slide foot in both cases.

Since you need to determine the value for Y in either case of using the right or left foot, it doesn't require an extra amount of work.

Assuming the value of y is equal to x, while using your slide foot as reference at the start leads to shots that felt correct (no apparent drift) yet miss the target inside.

Now if your slide ended on a board other than B+X, you know you've drifted.

Personally i know how far i drift fairly consistently and i also know how far away from my slide leg the ball passes. Knowing this information allows to me to create a imaginary ball path that i am trying to achive. It does not matter if i hold the ball on top of my head and skip to my lou with it before i swing it and throw it. The point is knowing what board i am going to end up on and what board the ball is on at that point regardless of the swing that got it there.