In League Play When Do You Change To Another Ball?

[Midnight Cowboy66]

When league play begins ( 1st game) and you have missed the pocket strike after one adjustment (2 Frames) . When do you decide to change to a different ball in your arsenal or do you continue to make other changes/adjustments?

[RobLV1]

You make a ball change after making the lateral adjustments necessary to get to the pocket, but can't get carry in the corners.

[Amyers]

As Rob said adjustments to get the ball to the pocket ball changes to carry.

[vdubtx]

One thing as non-professional bowlers that we all are, is we need to be sure we are actually making good shots and hitting your mark before you can say the ball isn't the right one for the condition.

If you had a good release, hit your mark and the ball is just not getting there, crossing over or just not carrying corner pins, lateral adjustments first and then a ball change.

Too many times I have been tempted into the ball change and wasted away a couple more frames trying to find something. I can honestly say that my release isn't 100% same each and every time up on the lanes, so I need to keep that in mind when deciding to move or make ball change.

Last, knowing your arsenal is paramount to what ball you would go with depending on what is happening on the lanes.

[fordman1]

Not every bowler has an "arsenal" If you have lots of balls go for it if you only have 2 make adjustments with your feet, hand or speed 1st. Learn to do those things before you spend a lot of money on a bunch of balls.

[Amyers]

Not every bowler has an "arsenal" If you have lots of balls go for it if you only have 2 make adjustments with your feet, hand or speed 1st. Learn to do those things before you spend a lot of money on a bunch of balls.

Some people over do it with balls I agree some people build arsenals before they are ready. You can do a lot with different adjustments too. Some of this depends on what your trying to obtain and how many houses you bowl in. If I only bowled in one house I could probably do fine maybe with one strike ball definitely with two. I really don't believe it takes a six ball arsenal to be successful when you know what the conditions are but if you travel around much or bowl tournaments your eventually going to find conditions that aren't optimal to what you're trying to do.

One of the houses I bowl in has older wood lanes and an oil machine that looks like something out of a 70 science fiction movie. You never know what the lanes conditions will be there. Sometimes it's a flood and it takes something like my Virtual Gravity to score consistently most of the time it's a desert and my Arson Low Flare is the ticket. Another house I bowl at has synthetic lanes and a very heavy oil pattern that goes out to at least the first arrow. I guess I could attempt to learn to play the twig might work not really comfortable out there (maybe a failing in my game) with the Arson but more likely I'm going to end up throwing the ball straight in the pocket which I can do but I'm going to suffer score wise like that much better off to have multiple balls.

Does Joe six pack bowler need 5 balls? No. If you average 150 do you need multiple balls? probably not but if your 180+ average and bowling on different conditions or houses if you think having options wouldn't improve your game your kidding yourself.

[Jessiewoodard57]

I guess I'm the odd one. Because of my chair I am already to the point of being way left. I have had to move to the point that the right wheel of the chair is at the left gutter cap at that point I will ball down to be able to move back right. As Rob says be sure before you change you are consistently hitting your mark. I never change if I know I missed my mark. I chose to change when I'm hitting my mark and the ball starts to crossover on me. I was using my Sinister on Tuesday and in the first two games I opened up with turkeys. In the middle of the 2nd game the ball started crossing over. After my second Brooklyn strike I made a change to my 2 Fast and was able to move back right. The other team thought I was nuts "Why would you change balls when your striking" they are all straight up the middle bowlers. The only other ball I used that night was my Ride for spares right of the 3 pin. Most every shot that missed the pocket was because of me and I knew it the moment I released the ball. now when I had a strike I knew it the moment I released also. Now all I need to do is figure out where in the lineup I am going to put the Haywire. I am kind of one of those ball collectors Amyers talks about. I have 8 balls 5 of them are no longer used because I did a switch from 13# equipment to 14#. Eventually I will rehome all of them. 3 are going to my son and his wife. 1 the hammer Taboo spare I kind of hate parting with ( wish I could find a 14#) I love this ball for real dry lanes.

[Ishkabibble]

I have to do it all with one ball. I have to make adjustments with my release mostly. Usually I can get a idea of where I need to be from practice. If the lanes are dry they will only get drier. If the oil is fresh and heavy we will get carry down. Our house is alot like one of the ones Amyers bowls in...from the 1970's. They used to have a sign on the wall "A goog bowler can adjust to any lane condition" And most nights "any lane condition" is what you got.

[TVan]

Some people over do it with balls I agree some people build arsenals before they are ready. You can do a lot with different adjustments too. Some of this depends on what your trying to obtain and how many houses you bowl in. If I only bowled in one house I could probably do fine maybe with one strike ball definitely with two. I really don't believe it takes a six ball arsenal to be successful when you know what the conditions are but if you travel around much or bowl tournaments your eventually going to find conditions that aren't optimal to what you're trying to do.

One of the houses I bowl in has older wood lanes and an oil machine that looks like something out of a 70 science fiction movie. You never know what the lanes conditions will be there. Sometimes it's a flood and it takes something like my Virtual Gravity to score consistently most of the time it's a desert and my Arson Low Flare is the ticket. Another house I bowl at has synthetic lanes and a very heavy oil pattern that goes out to at least the first arrow. I guess I could attempt to learn to play the twig might work not really comfortable out there (maybe a failing in my game) with the Arson but more likely I'm going to end up throwing the ball straight in the pocket which I can do but I'm going to suffer score wise like that much better off to have multiple balls.

Does Joe six pack bowler need 5 balls? No. If you average 150 do you need multiple balls? probably not but if your 180+ average and bowling on different conditions or houses if you think having options wouldn't improve your game your kidding yourself.

This is all very good. I have a 6 ball arsenal that I take if I am bowling somewhere I have never been or its a sport shot. However I can take three to each of the two houses I bowl league. One is wood and will dry out much faster and the other is newer lanes with a heavy and tougher shot than most because of the level of skill in this particular league. I always make the moves and adjustments before I make a ball change and they will never happen the same week to week. I can work the same two balls in both houses but the changes are never the same time. That all depends on who else is on the pair with you and what line they are playing. Asking when to make the change varies so often I don't think you can just say ahead of time what you will do and when.

[Aslan]

When league play begins ( 1st game) and you have missed the pocket strike after one adjustment (2 Frames) . When do you decide to change to a different ball in your arsenal or do you continue to make other changes/adjustments?

This is a question I seem to ask myself Game 3 of every series.

There are 4 schools of thought on this that I've heard from Pros or coaches:

1) Best 1-2 balls for each house
2) Progression Based System
3) Change after a certain number of frames/games.
4) Change based on leave(s) (see Rob's comment below)

In the order above (brief explanation...at least as they have been explained to me):

1) Many people have 3-9 balls and they know what 2 balls to bring with them to each house (+ a spare ball).

Advantage/Merit: It relies on "knowing your arsenal" and knowing your center.
Disadvantage(s): If the lane conditions vary too much...you can quickly lose the ability to adapt. And obviously this system would not be useful to a bowler in a travel league or that bowls tournaments.

2) You have a "progression" where you start with a ball that hooks early and as the lanes break down...you move to the next earliest hooking ball...so on, so forth...

Advantages/Merit: If you believe in ball specs, this system should make sense.
Disadvantage(s): First you need to know ball specs; most bowlers don't want to learn that. Second, if you start with your strongest/earliest hooking...and you're coming in light or missing the headpin right...you don't have any recourse except to straighten your shot. And 3rd, and this is something a more advanced expert like Rob is going to have to explain because I still don't totally understand it...but sometimes balls designed to hook MORE...hook LATER.

For example...a "skid/flip" ball often works best when thrown the middle of the oil (inside line) versus up the outside and in the dry. And said skid/flip ball may cover way more boards than balls meant to be more aggressive, or hook early, or designed for heavy oil.

It also gets tricky if your arsenal isn't designed right. You may have a very aggressive ball that hooks late...so you would throw it later in the progression...but by the time you got to it....the lanes would be broken down so much...it'll actually hook way too much (all be it LATER).

3) It's been suggested to me by a coach, based on my current arsenal, that I should start with the Le. Revolver or D. Encounter...then switch to the Asylum in Game 3.

I'm considering trying that...because it seems like over the last 2 weeks my Game 3 has went haywire (not the ball)...because I start so far outside (5-9 boards at the dots)...that by the time I move laterally INSIDE...I'm now going over other people's lines. So I may do a 2:1 at the start of Game 2....then a 1:1 later in Game 2...and then suddenly I'm needing to make a 2:1 every single shot in Game 3.

Advantages/Merit: It's very simple. And it solves the issue I mentioned above where suddenly I'm over top other peoples lines (once you get near 2nd arrow).
Disadvantage(s): It's not very scientific. It may work perfectly in one house and a disaster in another house.

4) Some people look for a certain "leave" and that tells them "it's time to switch balls!" Rob mentioned hitting the pocket and leaving flat 7s and 10s.

Advantages/Merit: This theory works off the premise that the ball is still finding the pocket on the line it's being thrown...but it is "burning out"...and that takes away energy from the shot...and thus you hit light. And if you have a consistent release...this is probably the best method in terms of staying ahead of the oil changes.

Disadvantage(s): If you left a flat 10 or 7 for ANY reason (bad release, inconsistent speed, bad luck or a pin not on spot)...you'll switch balls and miss even worse the next shot. There's also the issue that if you stay on essentially the same line...even though you're balling down...you're really burning up that line.

To more simply answer your question, the two best answers I've gotten are from Missy Parkin and Rob. Rob's answer is posted below (#4). Missy's answer was to continue to make lateral moves left until you move and miss right. For illustration:

Lets say you go through the head. You'd make a 2:1 move left. Then later in Game 2, you miss again, the same way. You make another 2:1 move left. Then you leave a pin that makes you move 1:1 left. Then in Game 3 you go through the nose again...move 2:1 left...but on the next shot you hit right of the headpin and leave a 2-4-5. According to this system, you've now moved further inside than the ball/release can overcome. You would then move back 2:1 right and ball down.

But like VDub sort of eluded to...I used to be moving left and right and going from ball to ball....some nights I'd use 3-4 different balls over 3 games. It wasn't until I started improving my timing and release...where suddenly I wasn't moving as much and rarely changed balls. The real LIMITING factor of ANY of the methods I mentioned (or any method for that matter) is that your release and speed and form need to be good. If you miss your target...you don't move off that. If you put too much hand or release flat...you don't move off that. You can ONLY move or switch balls if you throw a very good shot...that by no fault of YOURS didn't hit pocket and carry. The absolute #1 (with a bullet) mistake that I see most new arsenal bowlers make (including myself)...is they miss their target...or have a bad release or their speed is way too high or slow...and they change balls. Some change balls as soon as they don't strike 2 frames in a row.

You don't move or change balls...unless you hit your target and made a good shot.

That's just a summary of what I've heard or been told...like I said, Rob has actually written articles on this topic and has coached me a little bit about some of the things I was doing wrong with my arsenal and "progression"...so he's really more of an "authority" on this than most of the rest of us...but that's my 3 cents for what it's worth.

[RobLV1]

I have a new article that was just posted on BTM in the last two days that deals with bowling ball strategies. I think that many of you will find it informative.

[mc_runner]

Switching is tempting but it won't solve the problem if you aren't making good shots (as everyone has said). For me? If a ball is going over/under on really minor deviations shot to shot - or it's not carrying the pocket well.

[bowl1820]

In regard to the statement "we need to be sure we are actually making good shots and hitting your mark before you can say the ball isn't the right one for the condition. "

There was a article I read long ago, now it was about making adjustments to your shot. But I think it applies here also.

They said that if you waited until you were making prefect shots to make a adjustment. Then you waited too long, you've wasted so many frames you more than likely can't recover from it.

So you were better off making a change off a bad shot and seeing what happens, than wasting time waiting for a perfect shot to base your decision on.

[RobLV1]

Thanks, Al, you beat me to it by a couple of hours. I think the basic concept, at least on a house shot, is that if you have the right ball in your hand, you don't have to make a perfect shot. That's why it's a house shot!

[Midnight Cowboy66]

Tip for (1) ball bowlers:
1. If you drop your shoulder down or lower it, the bowling ball will go left, if you are right handed.
2. On your approach, walk toward your mark so you don’t have to over reach to hit it.
3.Lifting your head up to look at the pins during the bowling ball release, will pull your ball to the left. Keeping your head down and watch your bowling ball roll over your mark, to be consistent.
4. Breaking your wrist to the left, when releasing the bowling ball toward your mark. A wrist support would stop your wrist from breaking when lifting the bowling ball. Although I am not a fan of wrist supports.

[Midnight Cowboy66]

Asian, this is exactly why I posted this question to the forum as my 3rd game is suffering greatly. You have given me a lot of info to consider. I bowl (1) league a week and only have (2) balls. My main is a Storm Eraser Boost and my second is a Columbia Messenger Titanium. There is some reason I have been unable to control the Eraser which hooks early and drives left of the head pin no matter what I change at the approach.

[bowl1820]

My main is a Storm Eraser Boost and my second is a Columbia Messenger Titanium. There is some reason I have been unable to control the Eraser which hooks early and drives left of the head pin no matter what I change at the approach.


The Storm Eraser Boost is a particle ball that was meant for a medium-heavy oil shot back when it came out, not particularly the ball you'd want to be using for the 3rd game.

The Columbia Messenger Titanium polished up would be a better choice. Along with moving inside to try and find some oil.

[Aslan]

I have a new article that was just posted on BTM in the last two days that deals with bowling ball strategies. I think that many of you will find it informative.
I read it tonight. But, since we've talked about all of it either online or in person it was like reading a book after I already saw the movie. : )

My only critique/construction criticism is it pretty much talks about different styles but generally says; "They all suck but for different reasons." And then you're waiting for what you "should" do...then you get a lesson in bowling ball specs...then the article ends. It's like, "wait...did I miss what I SHOULD do?" And then you go back to look and, "nope...well, thats a bummer."

But I was kinda high when I read it so...I don't know...maybe I just missed it.


In regard to the statement "we need to be sure we are actually making good shots and hitting your mark before you can say the ball isn't the right one for the condition. "

There was a article I read long ago, now it was about making adjustments to your shot. But I think it applies here also.

They said that if you waited until you were making prefect shots to make a adjustment. Then you waited too long, you've wasted so many frames you more than likely can't recover from it.

So you were better off making a change off a bad shot and seeing what happens, than wasting time waiting for a perfect shot to base your decision on.

I'm thinking the key words in that paragraph were "long" and "ago" because everything I've read or watched since 2013 and multiple coaches have unanimously agreed says that you don't adjust off a bad shot. If I'm trying to hit 2nd arrow and the ball sticks on my hand and I throw it up and it hits the ceiling...I'm not "balling down" to my next weaker ball or going out to my car to try the urethane ball in the trunk.

Well...actually in that situation I was "balling UP" (get it? the ball went up?)...joke.

And sure...you might use a different ball because your's has a thumbhole too small or is stuck in the ceiling... :confused: ...but you shouldn't go to another ball because that one "isn't giving you a good line or good carry." :rolleyes: How do you even know if the ball goes in the gutter or you yank the shot left?

You gotta hit your mark and have a decent release. Maybe not down to the board...or the "perfect" release/post...but it's gotta be close.

[Aslan]

The Storm Eraser Boost is a particle ball that was meant for a medium-heavy oil shot back when it came out, not particularly the ball you'd want to be using for the 3rd game.

The Columbia Messenger Titanium polished up would be a better choice. Along with moving inside to try and find some oil.

Bowl1820 is like Wikipedia for bowling balls. :)

My only comment is...if you're throwing older equipment than me...it might be time to think "upgrade". I'm not talking $240 balls...but maybe at least something in the HP2 series of Rotogrip or something. We need to get MCow in the ball winning contest STAT!!

[RobLV1]

I read it tonight. But, since we've talked about all of it either online or in person it was like reading a book after I already saw the movie. : )

My only critique/construction criticism is it pretty much talks about different styles but generally says; "They all suck but for different reasons." And then you're waiting for what you "should" do...then you get a lesson in bowling ball specs...then the article ends. It's like, "wait...did I miss what I SHOULD do?" And then you go back to look and, "nope...well, thats a bummer."

But I was kinda high when I read it so...I don't know...maybe I just missed it.


I'm thinking more than "kinda high." The bottom line that you apparently missed is that strategies are great as long as they are not preconceptions; kinda like you holding on to the whole progression thing come hell or high water.

[bowl1820]

I'm thinking the key words in that paragraph were "long" and "ago" because everything I've read or watched since 2013 and multiple coaches have unanimously agreed says that you don't adjust off a bad shot. If I'm trying to hit 2nd arrow and the ball sticks on my hand and I throw it up and it hits the ceiling...I'm not "balling down" to my next weaker ball or going out to my car to try the urethane ball in the trunk.

Well...actually in that situation I was "balling UP" (get it? the ball went up?)...joke.

And sure...you might use a different ball because your's has a thumbhole too small or is stuck in the ceiling... ...but you shouldn't go to another ball because that one "isn't giving you a good line or good carry." How do you even know if the ball goes in the gutter or you yank the shot left?

You gotta hit your mark and have a decent release. Maybe not down to the board...or the "perfect" release/post...but it's gotta be close.

While maybe not a exact case of Reductio ad absurdum, you are taking the idea to a absurd extreme to try and discount it. You have to use some common sense (Though common sense and bowlers don't usually go hand in hand.) in each situation.

The point of the idea was, if you wait until everything is "just so" before you make some kind of change. You've most likely going to wait too long for that change to help.

It's like the bowler who starts the night playing their favorite line, their hitting the pocket and leaving 10 pins the first few frames and they just keep playing that line.

Someone told them onetime when that happens "You have the right line! Don't change anything! Just keep playing it until the lanes come around and you'll start striking." (I actually had that told to me in the past and I've heard that several times since over the years.)

If you do that, you'll wind up waiting too long to make a change that might help or that might not. It will be tenth frame and you lost or your pins under and don't make the cut.

Making a change (even if you're not making good shots.) and even if it doesn't help, gives you more information to work with.

And sometimes if your making bad shots and you make a change either ball, line, whatever. You'll wind up making better shots, because of it. Because that change forces you to do something different.

If you watch during league, you can see examples of this.

A Bowler will make their first shot, their swing, release is way off. But then they'll shoot a spare, they'll have a textbook swing & release doing it. It's because they made a change that forced them to do something different.

I've seen many bowlers throwing bad first shots and what would be great strike shots when shooting spares, but they won't try that shot for a strike.

Why? Because "I'm just making bad shots and I don't know if changing will work and I don't want to waste a frame"

Their wasting frames now.

[Tony]

I bowl in 2 leagues on the same lanes at the same house so other than how / if they oiled them is the major difference.
I have been starting with my benchmark ball and have 2 other balls available, one is stronger ball and the other weaker.
I will consider switching balls if the lane conditions are different and my benchmark ball is skidding too long or turning too early. I would also consider switching if after several adjustments the ball is not carrying on good pocket hits hoping a change in the line will allow better carry.

[Mike White]

While maybe not a exact case of Reductio ad absurdum



No an exact case??? It's NOWHERE close.

Reductio ad absurdum

If you are trying to prove something is true, then assume it is false. If that using proper logic, leads to a contradiction, then the assumption is proven false.

Likewise if you are trying to prove something is false, then assume it is true. Again contraction would prove it assumption is false.

Now about making adjustments...

Bowling is about gathering information.

If you release the ball well, but miss your mark, you gather information about what would happen if you changed your line to that which you just mistakenly played.

However, if you release the ball bad, you only gather information about what would happen if you release the ball bad the same way again.

From the bad shot, you gain no information indicating that you should change the line you will attempt to play next time up on that lane.

At best, you gain information indicating that you need to practice more so you can repeat your shots better.

Changing balls is based on when the hook phase begins, and ends.

If it begins too early, you need either to find more oil, or switch to less rough surface ball.

If it begins too late, you either need to hit the dry area of the lane sooner, or use a more roughed up ball.

If the hook phase ends too early, need either a higher RG ball, or a more polished surface.

If the hook phase ends too late, lower RG, or rougher surface.

Most likely if the hook phase is ending too late, it's also starting too late.

[bowl1820]

No an exact case??? It's NOWHERE close.

Reductio ad absurdum


Okay so I used the term wrong, Big whoop. I think Sheldon used it wrong in the BBT too.

One thing I knew when I wrote that term, you would comment on it.

[foreverincamo]

I didn't go thru all the replies, but just want to put in what I do. Where I bowl it's a league of mostly guys between 40 to 65, with a few young guns. Very few crackers. I start with my benchmark ball, my Hammer Black Widow Legend, and some nights I never move more than 5 boards laterally. The nights that I do, we're playing the young guns who eat up the oil. I'll switch to either my DV8 Thug or my Brunswick Vintage Gold Rhino Pro. I do this to stay where I like to play longer. If they are really dry, I go to my Brunswick Ringer a Platinum Pearl that I keep polished big-time.
I can play the deep inside line. I just prefer not to if my equipment allows me to stay right.

[Aslan]

I'm thinking more than "kinda high." The bottom line that you apparently missed is that strategies are great as long as they are not preconceptions; kinda like you holding on to the whole progression thing come hell or high water.
You picked a time to spar with me on this that...due to recent poor performance....hath weekend my position.

But like I've said before...your "non-preconceived notions" ideas about lines, lanes, and line-ups (Rob's 3 "L"s)...while I TOTALLY AGREE that at LEAST that COULD be the best way to approach it...I'd even give you 80-90% chance that at least in terms of the theory...it is preferable to pre-conceived notions. The glaring deficiency in that theory is that there is absolutely NO WAY that you could implement it more than at MOST 4% of the time. Why? Because you get 5-15 minutes of practice before league play...and...

1) You have to start throwing good shots (not perfect Bowl1820). Most bowlers don't throw 100% good shots after putting their shoes on and climbing up on the approach.
2) You have to wait in lines of 2-9 people to also practice.
3) You have to deal with the most common warm-up annoyance that nobody knows what the etiquette is so some people take two shots and some people take 1 shot, and some people reset the rack before they shoot, and others reset to the 2nd ball before throwing, and so on and so forth.
4) You need to be at the center on time.
5) During that time, you also need to evaluate your "line". Some would suggest trying 2-3 different lines.
6) You need to that on both lanes without the preconception that the lanes will play the same (2nd "L").

You now should go to your 2-5 ball arsenal and proceed to try the next ball, all lines, both lanes. Then the next ball... And in the meantime, you have to hope the conditions haven't changed due to the warm-up (without the preconception that it hasn't).

In other words, while your system provides the most accurate data which in theory would be the most useful data...it requires so much data collection...that eve if you were bowling against a no-show and only you and one other bowler on your team showed up and she "never practices" (because girls are weird like that)...you STILL couldn't gather that much data in that short of time frame.

So, my MudPuppy Cliff Note Suggestion for a future article is how to take that non-preconceived theory (which is sound) and convert it into an actual, useful, pre-league ritual that can be done in 10 minutes (roughly 4-8 shots) by an amateur bowler (that cannot throw more than 80% "good shots"...now you're at 2-7 shots).

And I'm a perfect example. I would LOVE a way to know what ball I SHOULD throw on league night. Sometimes I'm POSITIVE I have the wrong ball in my hand for a shot...but I have no real ability to figure out WHY it's a bad ball. We saw this in Vegas when I switched from my solids to your Jab. I moved inside (which seemed opposite based on me hitting light) and balled down from what I'd consider a 1st/2nd progression ball to a #4-#5 ball (which also seemed opposite to ball down when hitting light)....BUT...it worked. So even though I KNOW it and I've SEEN it...I still can't explain it...I still can't figure out how to adopt it to a system that can actually be used to help find the "right" ball or line.

Mudpuppy Cliff Notes: "My bowling ball selection is like a guy at a carnival game. I know the games are rigged and that I can't win...but I keep playing."


If you do that, you'll wind up waiting too long to make a change that might help or that might not. It will be tenth frame and you lost or your pins under and don't make the cut.

I get what you're saying Bowl1820. We'll leave bad shots out of it because one person's "bad" is another person's "adequate". But if you look at the concept that you adjust based on something other than how the ball/shot actually performs....you're kind've talking about a system I heard of once regarding moving 2:1 left after 8 straight strikes. Now keep in mind, when I mentioned that and thought it was interesting...most people more in line with Rob's non-preconceptions theory claimed that was an absolutely horrible idea and some actually did respond that you don't move when everything is working...others mentioned that it's a preconceived "system" that could never work...etc, etc.. So even if you were right that you could adjust based on something other than the ball's performance/shot...for it to be of any use would require some type of pre-conceived "system" that the bowler could use to move regardless of the outcome of the shot. So what would that "system" be?

For example (a more realistic one);

I strike pocket, I leave a flat 10, I strike pocket, I pull the shot and strike brooklyn. Do I move inside because I just struck left of the headpin? Crazy examples of balls hitting the ceiling aside...if I am pretty sure I made a bad shot...and that line seemed to be working...I would NOT move 3:2 inside on the next shot. And it's also unusual that I'd go from hitting pocket to hitting all the way on the other side of the headpin in just one frame....so it's probably the shot and not the lanes.

So what do the "experts" recommend you look for in a shot...EVEN A SHOT THAT STRIKES....as indications that a move may be appropriate??
1) If you make a good shot and it strikes...but you watch the ball exit more towards the 8-pin (for righties)...you know that you may (this frame or next) need to move left 1-2 boards with your feet and 1 board with your target.
2) If you make a good shot and it strikes...but the ball exits the pin deck closer to the 9-pin...you know that you're hitting a bit light. You probably are on a good line...but may need just a bit more hand...a bit less speed...or maybe even that the ball is burning up and losing energy before entering the roll phase.

THOSE are the BEST indicators of when a bowler should move or should not move because in both those examples...you're making a good, consistent shot...AND you're striking and scoring well....but you also are getting information that will help you keep striking.

THAT was the argument I was trying to make with my crazy example...maybe nor so effectively and I apologize for that.

[bowl1820]

I get what you're saying Bowl1820. We'll leave bad shots out of it because one person's "bad" is another person's "adequate". But if you look at the concept that you adjust based on something other than how the ball/shot actually performs.

Well, I don't think you are quite following what I was trying say.

I'm not saying anything about basing specific adjustments on a bad shot.

Just that sometimes, if your not getting the results you want. You should just go ahead and make a change of some kind, Because a lot of times if you wait until your meeting some specific criteria to decide on some specific change to make based on that criteria. You wind up waiting too long for it to do you any good.

[RobLV1]

Aslan: That is one of the scariest posts that I've ever seen. I'll try to answer some of your questions/concerns tomorrow after a good night's sleep.

[Aslan]

Aslan: That is one of the scariest posts that I've ever seen. I'll try to answer some of your questions/concerns tomorrow after a good night's sleep.

Well, it IS almost Halloween. So, scary posts ARE festive and appropriate.

I just want to know simply how you use the theory you seem to be advocating when you are constricted to 2-7 warm-up shots pre-league. I have a "feeling", you're going to say that there must be some preconceptions at some point because I don't see how a person can make all those decisions without some type of preconception. For someone like me...that preconception is something like a ball progression. For others, they may bring certain balls to certain houses (and not others).

But remember, when you're answering...I don't think it's fair to simply add time in terms of practice or getting to the lanes earlier. Realize, league conditions available to practice on are rare, rare, rare. Sure, you could get to the lanes a game early and bowl a game on beat up conditions just to get the cobwebs out...but if you're trying to make determinations on which ball to use...the difference between practice conditions and league conditions is ridiculously different.

[RobLV1]

Well, it IS almost Halloween. So, scary posts ARE festive and appropriate.

I just want to know simply how you use the theory you seem to be advocating when you are constricted to 2-7 warm-up shots pre-league. I have a "feeling", you're going to say that there must be some preconceptions at some point because I don't see how a person can make all those decisions without some type of preconception. For someone like me...that preconception is something like a ball progression. For others, they may bring certain balls to certain houses (and not others).

But remember, when you're answering...I don't think it's fair to simply add time in terms of practice or getting to the lanes earlier. Realize, league conditions available to practice on are rare, rare, rare. Sure, you could get to the lanes a game early and bowl a game on beat up conditions just to get the cobwebs out...but if you're trying to make determinations on which ball to use...the difference between practice conditions and league conditions is ridiculously different.

While we only get a few warm-up shots, there is a plethora of information that is available to us during all of the shots (not just ours, but everyone who is warming up on the pair). Watching the ball motion on every shot will tell you volumes, as will noticing where the other bowlers are playing the lanes. Once you start understanding the real differences between bowling balls, I think that you'll find that ten minutes of practice provides plenty of information to give you a good start to the night.

[vdubtx]

And don't forget, once you have the right ball in your hand, you don't have to make a perfect shot, heck not even a good shot since you are bowling on a house shot. Right Rob? :rolleyes:

[scottymoney]

We get 10 minutes of practice in my league. Knowing the people in my league and knowing where they play is a preconception but one I can count on(I know we shouldn't have a preconception but these creatures of habit and I know they will always continue to do this). But I also watch to see what their shots are doing during practice. Before I step up I know watching the people in front of me how the lanes will play. Most guys play up 10 so I see what their balls are doing. Some will miss right, so I get to see where the friction is, a few play in and I can see how much oil is toward the middle.

I also know going in I don't even bother finding a line right off the bat, and usually the ball I am throwing with my first few shots is not going to be the one I start with. I use a less aggressive ball the first few shots and throw up 10 to get loose. I know I will be playing inside everyone else so I don't go in and mess with my line until the end of practice where I can get a few warmed up shots to give me a read on roughly where and what ball to start with.

[RobLV1]

And don't forget, once you have the right ball in your hand, you don't have to make a perfect shot, heck not even a good shot since you are bowling on a house shot. Right Rob? :rolleyes:

Sarcasm aside, yes, that's pretty much right on a typical house shot. How else do you account for the hundreds of thousands of 300 games bowled each year. Are there really that many elite bowlers out there? I don't think so.

[vdubtx]

Sarcasm aside, yes, that's pretty much right on a typical house shot. How else do you account for the hundreds of thousands of 300 games bowled each year. Are there really that many elite bowlers out there? I don't think so.

So, you should be throwing 900's all the time. Why don't I see you doing that. How many of the easy peasy 300's have you thrown? Don't have to be "Elite" to throw a 300 game.
If it really were as easy as just throwing out on the lane, we would all have 300's every night. :rolleyes:

Don't know what kind of house shot you all have over there. But here, if you aren't on target, you aren't hitting the pocket.

[Aslan]

We get 10 minutes of practice in my league. Knowing the people in my league and knowing where they play is a preconception but one I can count on(I know we shouldn't have a preconception but these creatures of habit and I know they will always continue to do this). But I also watch to see what their shots are doing during practice. Before I step up I know watching the people in front of me how the lanes will play. Most guys play up 10 so I see what their balls are doing. Some will miss right, so I get to see where the friction is, a few play in and I can see how much oil is toward the middle.

I also know going in I don't even bother finding a line right off the bat, and usually the ball I am throwing with my first few shots is not going to be the one I start with. I use a less aggressive ball the first few shots and throw up 10 to get loose. I know I will be playing inside everyone else so I don't go in and mess with my line until the end of practice where I can get a few warmed up shots to give me a read on roughly where and what ball to start with.


While we only get a few warm-up shots, there is a plethora of information that is available to us during all of the shots (not just ours, but everyone who is warming up on the pair). Watching the ball motion on every shot will tell you volumes, as will noticing where the other bowlers are playing the lanes. Once you start understanding the real differences between bowling balls, I think that you'll find that ten minutes of practice provides plenty of information to give you a good start to the night.

So on a 4-person team with two lefties and one person that plays inside at 10mph. I play just outside of 2nd arrow and bowl 16-19mph. So what exact information am I gathering? The other team 'might' have a RH bowler that plays a similar line to me...but what am I watching for?

See, here's the "real world" example. At the tournament Saturday I got there early. I couldn't practice...but I found a high average bowler, my height, right-handed, and I watched what line he was playing. I then used my phone to calculate his ball speed and it was 16.5...similar to mine. His line was just inside of 3rd arrow. But I KNEW...I could not play that line. And since I couldn't calculate his rev rate quite as easily...and he was throwing a far more aggressive ball than I have in my arsenal...I could only use the data I was gathering as a "guide". And when it finally came time to take my shots in practice....I moved back outside 2nd arrow and then even further outside...there was no way I could play that guys line.

So maybe that's a good idea for another article...but again, I don't see in a standard league...with leftys and rightys and women and low ball speeds and different styles exactly the information you could gather that will allow you to avoid preconceptions or predeterminations. Rob is an expert and he has very valid points about why preconceptions/predeterminations are not ideal...I just want to see how we can avoid those preconseptions/predeterminations with 2-7 shots. That's the challenge and I've heard very little in terms of how to gather data that will tell you somewhat definitively that can be used to put you on the RIGHT line and the RIGHT ball in your hands off 2-7 shots.

Like I said originally; Rob's article and theory behind it are strong...but it's primarily a criticism or conventional approaches without ever offering a real solution that can be done in the time pre-league that most of us encounter.

[Aslan]

And this also plays into one of my biggest bowling pet peaves. To really get a feel for your arsenal and how it behaves, different lines, different balls....you don't have enough time in pre-league practice to really get a solid read on that...AND....(this is the pet peave part) it's nearly IMPOSSIBLE to practice at other times on league conditions. And because conditions vary SO much...and can affect scoring and how you approach the lanes...practicing on burnt up lanes might almost do MORE harm than GOOD.

So to really get good at bowling faster than the average bowler that simply goes from a 160s bowler to a 190s bowler over 20-30 years as they slowly get better and more consistent...you almost have to have your own lanes or work at the lanes where you can control what you're practicing on. I'm tired of being able to throw a 300 on burnt up lanes and 600+ series...and then struggle to break 180 on "fresh" conditions. For those of us that are still interested in bowling as a sport...it's getting harder and harder.

rant over

[Amyers]

So on a 4-person team with two lefties and one person that plays inside at 10mph. I play just outside of 2nd arrow and bowl 16-19mph. So what exact information am I gathering? The other team 'might' have a RH bowler that plays a similar line to me...but what am I watching for?

See, here's the "real world" example. At the tournament Saturday I got there early. I couldn't practice...but I found a high average bowler, my height, right-handed, and I watched what line he was playing. I then used my phone to calculate his ball speed and it was 16.5...similar to mine. His line was just inside of 3rd arrow. But I KNEW...I could not play that line. And since I couldn't calculate his rev rate quite as easily...and he was throwing a far more aggressive ball than I have in my arsenal...I could only use the data I was gathering as a "guide". And when it finally came time to take my shots in practice....I moved back outside 2nd arrow and then even further outside...there was no way I could play that guys line.

So maybe that's a good idea for another article...but again, I don't see in a standard league...with leftys and rightys and women and low ball speeds and different styles exactly the information you could gather that will allow you to avoid preconceptions or predeterminations. Rob is an expert and he has very valid points about why preconceptions/predeterminations are not ideal...I just want to see how we can avoid those preconseptions/predeterminations with 2-7 shots. That's the challenge and I've heard very little in terms of how to gather data that will tell you somewhat definitively that can be used to put you on the RIGHT line and the RIGHT ball in your hands off 2-7 shots.

Like I said originally; Rob's article and theory behind it are strong...but it's primarily a criticism or conventional approaches without ever offering a real solution that can be done in the time pre-league that most of us encounter.

Ok I don't know that I necessarily agree with this no preconception the entire bag and every possible line on the lane is open for judgment every night thing but I can watch my teammate who bowls higher speed than I do and a little farther right of me and see if the back ends are fried or not. I can tell if it's a lake out there. So can I tell if I'm going to put the Virtual Gravity up and grab the Arson Low Flare without ever throwing a ball? Yep. Does it tell me if my shot is going to be over 12 or 15 maybe or maybe not but I know which direction I'm going to start from.

If your only bowling with people who are throwing plastic equipment then maybe you cant tell much but even a lefty throwing tells you something. If you watch and know their game even watching a two hander can tell you how the lanes are reacting. This becomes tougher in tournaments when you don't know the people you are bowling around but for league it works. Now where it doesn't work for me is if you have balls that are close together strength and oil handling wise but different shapes. I don't know how you make that decision.

[Mike White]

So, you should be throwing 900's all the time. Why don't I see you doing that. How many of the easy peasy 300's have you thrown? Don't have to be "Elite" to throw a 300 game.
If it really were as easy as just throwing out on the lane, we would all have 300's every night. :rolleyes:

Don't know what kind of house shot you all have over there. But here, if you aren't on target, you aren't hitting the pocket.

I gotta call BS on that one. In that bit about Bill Fong, it said at Plano while he's averaging 230+, he's not in the top 15 in his league.

Unless your target is 5-6 boards wide, thats a lot of strikes being thrown while off target.

Notice most of the scores your posted where you break down what pins where left.

If you leave a single pin like a 4, 7, 8, 9, or 10, that would indicate you were close to target, but 4-6, 3-6, 6-10, 2, 2-8, or anything leaving the head pin, you missed target.

Based on your scores, you miss by a lot more often than you miss by a little.

That tends to indicate the help from the oil pattern is making the small missed still become strikes.

When you finally make a shot that is beyond help, the results aren't close to strikes.

[Aslan]

This would be a rare topic where Rob and Mike seem to be in agreement....that the lane conditions nowadays and the advanced equipment has made the game very easy.

If they ask me that on Wednesdays...I'd agree with them. If they ask me most other days...I'd disagree with them.

I think the game hasn't gotten "easier", it's just been changed. Where I DO AGREE with them is that houses can now alter the scores at their facilities by changing the oil pattern...and without significant oversight at significant cost...I don't see a time when bowling will be a level playing field where you can honestly compare averages from house to house. Case in point...last season I was 173 at one house and 194 at the other. This season so far I'm 179 at one house and 207 at the other. It's almost like playing two different games.

[vdubtx]

I gotta call BS on that one. In that bit about Bill Fong, it said at Plano while he's averaging 230+, he's not in the top 15 in his league.

Unless your target is 5-6 boards wide, thats a lot of strikes being thrown while off target.

Notice most of the scores your posted where you break down what pins where left.

If you leave a single pin like a 4, 7, 8, 9, or 10, that would indicate you were close to target, but 4-6, 3-6, 6-10, 2, 2-8, or anything leaving the head pin, you missed target.

Based on your scores, you miss by a lot more often than you miss by a little.

That tends to indicate the help from the oil pattern is making the small missed still become strikes.

When you finally make a shot that is beyond help, the results aren't close to strikes.

Can call BS all you want. I bowl on the lanes, you don't. Plano specifically is very speed dependent as it is a lower volume. If you get slow, you are going through the nose or crossing over. Thanks for your "analysis" :rolleyes: of my game, I know I am not perfect and openly admit it.

The bit about Bill Fong, the house has 2 competitive leagues that bring in the best of the best in the Dallas area to bowl in them. So it is very reasonable to say that 230+ won't be in top 10-15 whatever. Some PBA regional guys averaging 240+ in those leagues.

[Mike White]

This would be a rare topic where Rob and Mike seem to be in agreement....that the lane conditions nowadays and the advanced equipment has made the game very easy.

If they ask me that on Wednesdays...I'd agree with them. If they ask me most other days...I'd disagree with them.

I think the game hasn't gotten "easier", it's just been changed. Where I DO AGREE with them is that houses can now alter the scores at their facilities by changing the oil pattern...and without significant oversight at significant cost...I don't see a time when bowling will be a level playing field where you can honestly compare averages from house to house. Case in point...last season I was 173 at one house and 194 at the other. This season so far I'm 179 at one house and 207 at the other. It's almost like playing two different games.

Get rid of reactive reside balls, go back to about 8 ml of oil on the lane instead of 20+ml, and require the oil to be much flatter.

The urethane balls give you less friction, but the lower amount of oil gives you more friction.

What is different is the lower amount of oil doesn't give you a lot of help.

The lower friction balls require you to improve your release in a way that doesn't ruin your accuracy.

That would bring skill back to the sport.

Modern bowling is to the sport of bowling much like miniature golf is the the sport of golf.

Aslan, you score bettie when you can start the ball just outside the wall of oil, and when you tug the shot up into the oil, it keeps the ball on line.

Your mistakes to the right are the ones that get you in trouble.

When you started sanding the crap out of the ball, your scores went up because the extra friction make your ball roll.

[Amyers]

Is the game different yes is the game easy not really. Does it really matter if at the top levels the games are decided at 234-257 or 189-204? I will grant that at some houses the game has become a carry contest and the guy who lucks into tripping out a couple of pins is the winner which kind of stinks. Not all THS patterns play like this though. My biggest complaint is the power guys advantage has just gotten to the point of being crazy though. The world's not going backwards though so wishing that urethane balls and 8ml oil patters are coming back is a fools errand. I do wish the average player would learn that tougher conditions actually favor them over the super high average guys. I've found I'm much more competitive in a bowling world where the top is at 220-230 than where it is at 240-300.

Throwing super high scores is easier than it used to be 300 was something an above average player did a couple of times in there life if they were lucky now I'm not surprised when someone tells me they have 50. 800 was never even on most bowlers radar now most of the high end bowlers I know have a couple. These awards are like steroid homerun numbers in baseball but it doesn't mean the game is now easy.

[NewToBowling]

Get rid of reactive reside balls, go back to about 8 ml of oil on the lane instead of 20+ml, and require the oil to be much flatter.

The urethane balls give you less friction, but the lower amount of oil gives you more friction.

What is different is the lower amount of oil doesn't give you a lot of help.

The lower friction balls require you to improve your release in a way that doesn't ruin your accuracy.

That would bring skill back to the sport.

Modern bowling is to the sport of bowling much like miniature golf is the the sport of golf.

Aslan, you score bettie when you can start the ball just outside the wall of oil, and when you tug the shot up into the oil, it keeps the ball on line.

Your mistakes to the right are the ones that get you in trouble.

When you started sanding the crap out of the ball, your scores went up because the extra friction make your ball roll.

Yeah, but we wouldn't have the gutter to gutter hook action with the nice swirly multi colored balls :)

[RobLV1]

So, you should be throwing 900's all the time. Why don't I see you doing that. How many of the easy peasy 300's have you thrown? Don't have to be "Elite" to throw a 300 game.
If it really were as easy as just throwing out on the lane, we would all have 300's every night. :rolleyes:

Don't know what kind of house shot you all have over there. But here, if you aren't on target, you aren't hitting the pocket.

Unfortunately, by the time the USBC gave up on monitoring lane conditions, my body was already on a downhill slide that will undoubtedly force me to quit bowling before too much longer. I can tell you that in the handicap "fun league" in which I bowl with my wife on Thursday nights, there were five 300 games bowled in the first four weeks, and only one of them was thrown by a serious bowler. Kudos to the proprietors in your area of Texas if they are putting out a real shot. In a great majority of bowling centers across the country, they're not.

[RobLV1]

So maybe that's a good idea for another article...but again, I don't see in a standard league...with leftys and rightys and women and low ball speeds and different styles exactly the information you could gather that will allow you to avoid preconceptions or predeterminations. Rob is an expert and he has very valid points about why preconceptions/predeterminations are not ideal...I just want to see how we can avoid those preconseptions/predeterminations with 2-7 shots. That's the challenge and I've heard very little in terms of how to gather data that will tell you somewhat definitively that can be used to put you on the RIGHT line and the RIGHT ball in your hands off 2-7 shots.

Like I said originally; Rob's article and theory behind it are strong...but it's primarily a criticism or conventional approaches without ever offering a real solution that can be done in the time pre-league that most of us encounter.

I think that your confusion is coming from what you are looking for during practice, and what you are not looking for. You are looking for a line, but you are not looking at ball reactions. During ten minutes of practice, at the rate of two shots per minute on two lanes, you get the opportunity of seeing the ball reactions of forty shots. If you know something about bowling balls, it's not too difficult to extrapolate what might work for you based on others rev rates and ball speeds. It is certainly more effective than starting with your most aggressive ball because that's what you always do, and standing on the big dot and hitting the second arrow because that's where you always play.

You seem to be looking for someone to give you a formula, and, frankly, there isn't one. You need to use your eyes to see the phases of ball reaction, and your brain to interpret what you see. That is the point of the Strategies article; nothing more, and nothing less.

[bobforsaken]

Regarding the original question.. I make a ball change if I'm on a great line and stringing strikes and I start creeping high in the pocket, or if during transition I start hitting weak. The result of this is usually when I start leaving corner pins if I'm seeing the ball well that night based on the path of the ball through the pocket. Otherwise, my only ball change is in the 3rd game if I move deeper and need to come flush quickly before I waste too many frames. If I move 3 and 2 ( for example) and start out coming in weak I may ball up rather than trying to fudge with my target line.



As for THS and its "ease". A lot depends on the house. Where I bowl they just got a new lane machine and are putting down a new white pattern. I bowled on the Sphinx one day and the fresh house shot the next. The only difference was with the count you get on a really bad shot. The precision needed to strike was pretty close. The big difference in scoring pace (For me at least) was a bad shot in on the House shot may be an 8 count... On the Sphinx it was a split or 5 count and a difficult spare.

[Tony]

Comparing modern bowling / old time bowling to miniature golf seems like a bit of a stretch, maybe compare modern golf to old time golf would be more accurate. What we have here is called advanced equipment and technology, it's different but I wouldn't say it's a joke.
If you want to go back in time send me a letter written by the light of your lantern and stop using the computer and electricity, it just makes stuff too easy.
Careful not to use that damn car, ride a horse or take the train instead :)

[Aslan]

Aslan, you score bettie when you can start the ball just outside the wall of oil, and when you tug the shot up into the oil, it keeps the ball on line.

Your mistakes to the right are the ones that get you in trouble.

When you started sanding the crap out of the ball, your scores went up because the extra friction make your ball roll.

That's one line of thinking. And it makes sense. Because I have a higher speed and less rpms, a solid cover is going to grab sooner and ultimately help me into the pocket.

The other line of thinking is that the solid cover and too much surface caused the balls to lose energy on the outside in the dry and caused them to hit weaker than they should.

Both valid lines of thinking and both would be validated by one pro or another. To me, that's the trickiest thing about modern bowling. Because we rely so much on the balls to do the work...we end up robbing Peter to pay Paul. If I throw a pearl ball up second arrow and it misses right of the headpin...logic would dictate a need for a stronger ball. But what does "stronger" mean? Does it mean a ball with the same cover and a more advanced core? Or does it mean a ball with a hybrid or solid cover? If you believe in the concept of a ball burning up and losing energy...it begs the question...why would anyone throw anything but Pearls? Everything else will lose energy sooner.

And this is a hard concept for you AND Rob (mentioned in the same sentence on purpose) because YOU have a tremendous rev rate and fair amount of speed. Not to mention...you throw the weakest equipment around. I think I saw you throw a Storm BYTE once...but you quickly abandoned it because it was hooking too much. So the idea of you throwing a solid cover ball is absurd. Rob on the other hand might advocate moving further inside...but Rob's speed is much lower than mine. His shots at my speed would be in the gutter. And his shots at his speed on my line...probably head to the left gutter. And that also explains why he advocates less surface and more of a breakpoint style...because if HE adds surface or throws solids...they probably pick up the roll too soon at that lower speed and by the time the ball hits the pin; it's dead.


I think that your confusion is coming from what you are looking for during practice, and what you are not looking for. You are looking for a line, but you are not looking at ball reactions.
I have 2-7 shots and 4-5 balls to try on two different lanes and am likely to muff at least 1-2 shots. The math is not in favor of doing what you're asking.


During ten minutes of practice, at the rate of two shots per minute on two lanes, you get the opportunity of seeing the ball reactions of forty shots. If you know something about bowling balls, it's not too difficult to extrapolate what might work for you based on others rev rates and ball speeds. It is certainly more effective than starting with your most aggressive ball because that's what you always do, and standing on the big dot and hitting the second arrow because that's where you always play.
While I agree with you that we need something better than just standing in the same spot and targeting the same spot just because that's what you're used to....I think you are a bit off on what can be learned from other bowlers during practice. I MAY BE WRONG....and I'd love to read an article on BTM about what to look for in practice from other bowlers...BUT....you have to understand that 96% of leagues are not scratch leagues with serious bowlers. For the vast majority of bowlers, you're asking them to watch bowlers that have no idea how to bowl...leftys, thumbless, 2-handed, back-up balls, etc...and make determinations based on what we see.

And maybe that's where I'M wrong. BTM is likely content for more serious bowlers...so maybe the article wasn't meant for the 96% of regular bowlers. And I know that's a difficulty writers have, same as folks who post on here. Sometimes content makes sense to a certain group and not another, so I get that.

[Amyers]

That's one line of thinking. And it makes sense. Because I have a higher speed and less rpms, a solid cover is going to grab sooner and ultimately help me into the pocket.

The other line of thinking is that the solid cover and too much surface caused the balls to lose energy on the outside in the dry and caused them to hit weaker than they should.

Both valid lines of thinking and both would be validated by one pro or another. To me, that's the trickiest thing about modern bowling. Because we rely so much on the balls to do the work...we end up robbing Peter to pay Paul. If I throw a pearl ball up second arrow and it misses right of the headpin...logic would dictate a need for a stronger ball. But what does "stronger" mean? Does it mean a ball with the same cover and a more advanced core? Or does it mean a ball with a hybrid or solid cover? If you believe in the concept of a ball burning up and losing energy...it begs the question...why would anyone throw anything but Pearls? Everything else will lose energy sooner.

And this is a hard concept for you AND Rob (mentioned in the same sentence on purpose) because YOU have a tremendous rev rate and fair amount of speed. Not to mention...you throw the weakest equipment around. I think I saw you throw a Storm BYTE once...but you quickly abandoned it because it was hooking too much. So the idea of you throwing a solid cover ball is absurd. Rob on the other hand might advocate moving further inside...but Rob's speed is much lower than mine. His shots at my speed would be in the gutter. And his shots at his speed on my line...probably head to the left gutter. And that also explains why he advocates less surface and more of a breakpoint style...because if HE adds surface or throws solids...they probably pick up the roll too soon at that lower speed and by the time the ball hits the pin; it's dead.


I have 2-7 shots and 4-5 balls to try on two different lanes and am likely to muff at least 1-2 shots. The math is not in favor of doing what you're asking.


While I agree with you that we need something better than just standing in the same spot and targeting the same spot just because that's what you're used to....I think you are a bit off on what can be learned from other bowlers during practice. I MAY BE WRONG....and I'd love to read an article on BTM about what to look for in practice from other bowlers...BUT....you have to understand that 96% of leagues are not scratch leagues with serious bowlers. For the vast majority of bowlers, you're asking them to watch bowlers that have no idea how to bowl...leftys, thumbless, 2-handed, back-up balls, etc...and make determinations based on what we see.

And maybe that's where I'M wrong. BTM is likely content for more serious bowlers...so maybe the article wasn't meant for the 96% of regular bowlers. And I know that's a difficulty writers have, same as folks who post on here. Sometimes content makes sense to a certain group and not another, so I get that.

As usual your making this more complicated than it really is. It's not about choosing between 4 balls each with three different lines for 12 possibilities. In general for league in a house I'm used to bowling in I'm choosing between 2 balls the others are there more for lane machine being broke (no oil, lots of oil) I'm going to start within 5 boards with my target (for me between the 2nd and 3rd arrow) and my feet in about a 10 board area unless I see my teammates balls performing wildly different than I expect. I can feel that area out pretty well with a couple of balls and make a decision. Really your 12 possible should be about three unless things are wonky. The other thing is if my ball doesn't react I'm not going to sit there and continue to throw the ball at the same spot expecting a different reaction I'm moving to where I need it even if it's not where I usually play.

The other thing I will mention at this point you should know enough bowlers to fill out a decent team of people that feel and think similar to you do about bowling. I struggled this fall with the closing of my center and people going multiple directs and I'm limited to availability with my wife only being able to bowl on Friday's so that makes it tougher for me for that night but if I had any night available. Which I do for my other leagues I could put three teams together pretty easily of top level and above average bowlers to bowl with. Not saying they would all put in the work you do, people like us are kind of rare but there are plenty of talented bowlers here in my little area can't believe it's that hard in an area like So. Cal.

[Aslan]

I'm beginning to think bowling is 45% lane conditions, 50% release, and 5% other.

We spend a LOT of time talking and researching and kicking ideas around....but at the end of the day the vast majority of us (and bowlers in general) just kinda grab a ball or two and go throw up the line they usually play. And if they aren't scoring well....maybe they switch balls. Maybe not.

Like, lets say I'm throwing the Le. Revolver...and I'm missing Brooklyn (AND making good shots). I can:
1) Move laterally to find more oil...play a little more inside.
2) Ball down to the D. Encounter.
3) Increase speed.
4) Decrease axis tilt.
5) Decrease axis rotation.
6) Loft the ball vertically out more on the lanes to delay the hook.

So that's SIX THINGS I can do based on missing Brooklyn. Only ONE of those options involves changing balls. So why even bother with arsenals? If you have 5 ways to change a ball's path...why choose "ball change"?

There are people that swear up and down that if you're missing it's because you have the wrong ball for the conditions. Yet last month I was wasting time at a bowling center while getting my car worked on and threw a 207 with a house ball. Could it be, that after all of this, the ball really doesn't matter?? #theballdoesntmatter (also see Aslan's previous thread entitled "Does the ball Really Matter?")

[Amyers]

I'm beginning to think bowling is 45% lane conditions, 50% release, and 5% other.

We spend a LOT of time talking and researching and kicking ideas around....but at the end of the day the vast majority of us (and bowlers in general) just kinda grab a ball or two and go throw up the line they usually play. And if they aren't scoring well....maybe they switch balls. Maybe not.

Like, lets say I'm throwing the Le. Revolver...and I'm missing Brooklyn (AND making good shots). I can:
1) Move laterally to find more oil...play a little more inside.
2) Ball down to the D. Encounter.
3) Increase speed.
4) Decrease axis tilt.
5) Decrease axis rotation.
6) Loft the ball vertically out more on the lanes to delay the hook.

So that's SIX THINGS I can do based on missing Brooklyn. Only ONE of those options involves changing balls. So why even bother with arsenals? If you have 5 ways to change a ball's path...why choose "ball change"?

There are people that swear up and down that if you're missing it's because you have the wrong ball for the conditions. Yet last month I was wasting time at a bowling center while getting my car worked on and threw a 207 with a house ball. Could it be, that after all of this, the ball really doesn't matter?? #theballdoesntmatter (also see Aslan's previous thread entitled "Does the ball Really Matter?")

Way to complicated as usual your throwing Brooklyn you got the wrong line period it's a you problem not a ball problem. Ball goes left you move left end of story. Changing balls is about optimum carry and matching the condition not hitting the pocket.

[RobLV1]

Way to complicated as usual your throwing Brooklyn you got the wrong line period it's a you problem not a ball problem. Ball goes left you move left end of story. Changing balls is about optimum carry and matching the condition not hitting the pocket.

Exactly right! Once you really accept the fact that balls do not hook more or less than other balls, only sooner or later, this will make much more sense to you. This is why you don't "ball down" and move right; rather when you go to a less aggressive ball, you stay where you are and just delay the reaction to enable you to carry the corners.

[NewToBowling]

Yep, you're playing house conditions which has a lot of forgiveness. I wouldn't even consider bringing 4-5 balls on a house condition. Like Amyers said, move left or right to adjust and that is all it should take on house shots. The less thinking you do the more consistent you will be.

[RobLV1]

I know a very good bowler who has the exact same outlook as you do. The problem is that he is averaging 25 pin less for game 3 than he does for game 2!

[AlexNC]

I struggle with my matchup to the lanes in a different fashion, albeit similar struggle. Since I have just begun to build my arsenal I only have a medium rg solid and a plastic ball, so I have constantly been messing with the surface to find something that works with me. I feel like everytime I add surface it goes too far to kill my back end and my ball rolls too early, and everytime I polish it doesn't get into a good role. Wednesday after league I bowled some extra games trying my stepfather's Crux, and I am not sure if it was just having the opportunity to make a change but it just felt great and seemed to work on several different lines for me. The oil at our house is a little on the heavier side and we don't see a whole lot of burnup, but I was still surprised at how well such a strong ball was working for me.