It may be time to hang it up...

[PAV1983]

I'm beginning to think I am just not cut out for this game. I have been taking lessons and only feel like I am getting worse. I have been taking lessons since last spring (of 2015). I am learning how to hook the ball properly (stroker style). It seems that once in a while, I have a decent time and can get in the upper 300's in a three-game series. Since changing over to this new style, I have never had a 400 series.

Tonight I bowled the worst effing series I probably have ever bowled in my life (300). This is after numerous lessons and instruction. I also can't hit spares with an s. The whole purpose of taking lessons is to get better, not suck more. It makes no sense to me that I am taking these lessons and just getting worse. What the eff! All I can say is that something is not working. I shouldn't be taking one step forward and ten steps back. I may just be overreacting. I don't know...

My coach knows what he's doing and knows what he's talking about, I just can't seem to put it all together.

I think it may be time to quit after this short season is done, but I haven't decided yet. I'm getting sick and effing tired of being stagnant, not improving, and regressing. I relax, and do everything my coach says, and it's still the same effing thing!

Or, am I over reacting? If so, how long of a timetable should I give it? What are your thoughts?

[larry mc]

stop pressuring urself and have fun ,, its a game ,, u will improve ,, just have fun

[AlexNC]

Bowling technique issues aside, I can't imagine it would be possible to make progress in your state of frustration. Have some patience and don't force it.

[Tony]

Sometimes you just have to relax, stop thinking, and throw the ball toward the pocket. Also always remember BIF bowling is fun !

[Timmyb]

Timetable? I've been at this for forty years, and I'm still learning every time I bowl. That's what makes this game great. You can't master it!

[NYMIKE]

When you get lessons at first you will take a turn for the worse before you get better. Go slow, I found devoting 20 shots a week shooting at 7 pin if you a lefty or 10 pin if you a righty will be most productive in helping raising your average at the early stages. After my first two lessons I had a 292 series, I felt the same as you, but you hang in, you will find the game rewarding. Good luck.

[billf]

I don't know you so take this with a grain of salt. How often do you practice? And by that I mean real practice where you work on specific items and not necessarily bowling for score. Some drills came be duplicated at home also. Do you do anything to help improve your focus such as yoga or meditation? You said you're learning "stroker style" and your scores have gone down. What was your old style?

[NewToBowling]

Might be a coaching issue. If you aren't improving (and I mean constant sub 400 series) than coach needs to realize this and change things up. His approach to coaching me be off or he is going too fast giving you too many things to work on. It's usually better to work on one aspect first and go from there.

You may think he knows what he is doing but if he can't get results than it may be time to move on and try someone else. Some coaches only know how to point out the errors but have no input on how to fix them.

[djp1080]

Since you're taking lessons, that is a very positive step. You say that your coach knows what he's doing, etc., which is a good thing as well.
I have taken many lessons with a qualified coach and I've followed his coaching as best as I can. I've found that I need a few weeks to practice some of the techniques on my own and then come back for more. My last few coaching sessions have focused basically on the same issues. I'm finally getting it into my game and the results are rewarding.
You say that you're not putting it all together (whatever that means). Are you referring to your scores?
If it is your scores, likely the quickest way to improve your scores is to pick up those spares. If you're rolling a straight ball, picking up spares should be part of your learning process. Understanding how to use the positioning of your feet, walking toward the foul line and using the dots and arrows is key. Perhaps your coach believes your abilities have improved enough for you to learn how to throw a hook and you should give it your best if that's the case.
Bowling should be fun and a learning process for a good long time.
I bowled for many years as a youngster without giving it that much thought and I did pretty well. Now that I'm much older and came back to the sport, I've learned a lot about the game in the last five years that I didn't consider earlier in my life. The game continues to be fun and I look forward to each week of leagues and practice. Hopefully it will be for you, too. Good luck!

[fordman1]

1st off your profile says you are a 150 avg. bowler who throws a 15lb. backup ball. It doesn't say gender or size. How tall and how much you weigh. Some people think they should be able to get a few lessons and avg. 200. What are your goals? Are they realistic?
I have known people who picked up bowling in a few yrs, others never got any better and paid coaches and practiced all the time. They were just uncoodinated.

[Aslan]

It's hard to answer the question or comment without knowing more information.

You're not a youth bowler...so I'm assuming this isn't a frustration that real bowling isn't as easy as Wii bowling, it's too hard, etc...

You're male, low 30s...which means you have plenty of time. Not sure how long you've been bowling...but it seems like not very long.

The first question I would ask as a coach is: "What are your goals?" It's a question you hear from personal trainers and thereapists...but unfortunately not many bowling coaches.

The reason that question is important is it determines what needs to be done next. If your answer is "I want to someday be in the top 10-15% of league players at my house....that's highly likely to be something that can be accomplished. It's going to take some time, and some practice. But it's easily acheiveable primarily because while most high level league bowlers rely on their decades of experience, you are shortcutting around them by taking lessons...something their experience is tricking them into not doing.

Now, if your goal is to win the WSOB in the next few years....I'm not going to say that it's impossible...but the path you'd have to take would be excruciatingly difficult.

So step 1 (if you want my advice) is to honestly come up with what your goal is. And don't LIE!! People always lie to themselves. If your goal is to be the best bowler on the planet....but you "say" your goal is to be above average....you are going to be constantly disappointed despite exceeding your stated goals.

[Aslan]

1st off your profile says you are a 150 avg. bowler who throws a 15lb. backup ball.

That's the other problem. Regardless of your goals....you're throwing a weak/entry-level ball "backwards" (which I assume means back-up).

Unlike Private Detective Fordman....I was able to easily investigate your profile to determine age and gender. Years of stalking experience paying off I guess.

The reason why That's a problem is that it's more difficult to really see good ball motion with a lower level ball. They aren't designed to hook that much. And the worse part of the equation is you're throwing a back-up ball. Usually, it is only appropriate for children or females to throw a back-up ball. And "no", I'm not being sexist nor violating Bowl1820's restriction on me mentioning "the ladies". :cool:

It's actually biomechanics. Women and men actually have joints that behave differently (in general). For women, it is actually more 'natural' to throw a back-up ball because of the way their arm/elbow/forearm are developed. Men, from an earlier age, start to lose that ability to rotate their arm that way. We can still do it (I throw back-up at certain splits and washouts...some guys throw back-up at certain spares)...but it's not 'natural'. I've only seen ONE bowler that was able to average in the 190s throwing a back-up ball. Can you average in the 150s? Absolutely. But the odds of you getting to a high level throwing a back-up ball are almost totally against you.

And that may explain why the coaching isn't working as well as you'd like. I tried to coach a co-worker that threw a back-up ball and everything I was trained to teach was opposite. I had to teach a RHer as if he was a LHer. And you can't teach proper sub-elements of the release....because the release is backwards. To come THROUGH the ball with a back-up release would require you to be double-jointed.

But all that aside...if you just started in April and are still struggling in November...that's not abnormal. I started in August 2013 and never averaged over 164 until last season. It took me a good two years to go from 121-179....and I bowl more often than just about anyone on here AND was taking regular lessons since back in 2014. Part of the reason for that is that fundamentals take time to learn. There's no magic to it. It's like the 2-handers that get pissed and quit because they throw 2-handed but aren't nearly as good as Belmo. It took Belmo 25 years to learn how to do that and perfect it to that level. Footwork, timing, release, accuracy, spare shooting. These are all basic things that many people in your league (and on this site) have mastered over decades of experience. For those of us that start later in life...we have to catch up to them because by the time we wait 20 years...bowling probably won't exist or we'll have no back/knee left to continue.

It's frustrating...but no more so than anything else. Decide what you want to accomplish...fix the basics....then slowly you'll see improvement. But it won't happen overnight. You can't be an elite bowler until you learn to pick up spares at an 80% or > clip. You can't be an elite bowler until you can strike at least 1 out of every 3 frames; probably 2 out of every 3 frames. And learning to do those two things will take years and years. Not ONE year.

[NYMIKE]

Are you being coached on throwing a backup ball? I'm no expert on bowling, I'm the lowest scoring average regular poster here, but I know enough to say that it's not a conventional way of bowling. Most people are taught 4 step approach, pendulum (grandpa clock) arm swing. There is a bowler in my league that throws a backup ball, he averages about what I do (150s) he is very athletic, he has very high swing like Mika, but spares are difficult for him.

[PAV1983]

It's hard to answer the question or comment without knowing more information.

You're not a youth bowler...so I'm assuming this isn't a frustration that real bowling isn't as easy as Wii bowling, it's too hard, etc...

You're male, low 30s...which means you have plenty of time. Not sure how long you've been bowling...but it seems like not very long.

The first question I would ask as a coach is: "What are your goals?" It's a question you hear from personal trainers and thereapists...but unfortunately not many bowling coaches.

The reason that question is important is it determines what needs to be done next. If your answer is "I want to someday be in the top 10-15% of league players at my house....that's highly likely to be something that can be accomplished. It's going to take some time, and some practice. But it's easily acheiveable primarily because while most high level league bowlers rely on their decades of experience, you are shortcutting around them by taking lessons...something their experience is tricking them into not doing.

Now, if your goal is to win the WSOB in the next few years....I'm not going to say that it's impossible...but the path you'd have to take would be excruciatingly difficult.

So step 1 (if you want my advice) is to honestly come up with what your goal is. And don't LIE!! People always lie to themselves. If your goal is to be the best bowler on the planet....but you "say" your goal is to be above average....you are going to be constantly disappointed despite exceeding your stated goals.

My goal as of right now is to get back to where I was before I switched away from the backup ball (around a 150 avg.). My next goal is to get up into the in 160's and 170's. My ultimate goal is to eventually average in the low 200's. That's all I really want to accomplish. I just want to get to the 200 avg. threshold.

As I said before, the most frustrating thing is that I feel I am making ZERO progress. Instead of getting better, I feel like I have stayed in the same place for at least six months, not improving one bit. I know what my goals are, but I can't seem to improve enough to get to them.

I enjoy bowling, but at some point when I should be getting better and I'm not, it's very frustrating.

[NewToBowling]

I have to ask why you are bowling backup. Is it just personal preference. Like others have stated it is easier to be consistent if you throw a normal release.

[Aslan]

I enjoy bowling, but at some point when I should be getting better and I'm not, it's very frustrating.

You don't have to tell me! Staying at the same spot is difficult, especially when you're putting resources into the process.

My suggestion about your goals is to start tracking some useful statistics and make improving those statistics your short-term goal(s) with the low 200 average being more of a mid-term goal.

For example, here are some things you can track;
- first ball average (for a 200 bowler...this is likely between 8.5-9.5). If it's low (6-8)...then finding the pocket is important.
- pocket % (same as above....how often are you actually hitting the pocket?) This is important because 200 average bowlers rarely miss the pocket...and when they do it was either a bad shot and/or they went through the head because of transition.
- strike % (how often do you strike?) If this is high but your average is low...you need to work on spare shooting. 200-average bowlers generally strike at a rate > 30%.
- pocket carry. Once you figure out getting to the pocket...are you carrying the 10-pin and 7-pin and 8-pin and 9-pin? If you're hitting pocket and not striking...it may be a ball/equipment issue or lane play issue.
- single-pin spare % (how many times can you pick up a single-pin spare?)
- corner-pin spare % (how often can you pick up the hard single-pins?)
- average improvement, high score improvement, clean games, etc... (not as meaningful, but smaller goals to keep you motivated)
- accuracy % (if you are having trouble hitting your mark....maybe start with this and try to improve the % of time you hit your target +/- X boards)

The reason I track my stats every game, every practice, every open-bowling (not counting lessons or low-ball games)...is I want the STATS. The Stats tell a story. Sometimes that story is VERY different from what you FEEL. I've had many, many (to the infinity) bad games and sometimes i'll think it's because I did A or B or didn't do C or D...then I look at the stats and I see, "oh....okay...I actually picked up almost every spare...but I couldn't strike....so that's a carry issue. The stats are easier to work with because you can focus on a certain thing rather than trying to fix every little thing at once.

I have 3 levels of goals:
1) Season Goals: Very specific, achievable, but challenging. Stat oriented.
2) Mid-Term Goals: Short-Term accomplishments (average increase, high games, top X % of the league I'm in, going to a clinic/pro, scratch/sport leagues, etc...)
3) Long Term Career Goals: "Dream" goals. If the #1 and #2 goals are accomplished and I'm not broken down or dead...could I ever compete in higher stake tournaments/leagues/competitions? And if I did...what would me ultimate dream goal be?

Remember: Your "season goals" ultimately get you to your mid-term goals. A 200 average is ONLY possible if you achieve many of those season goals. You have to learn how to hit a ball before you can have a 0.400 average.

Long term goals are more tricky because long term goals keep you from "cheating" and doing something that long term is counter-productive...but short term will meet your mid-term goal. For example....coming through the ball versus up the side. Many bowlers bowl thumbless, or 2-handed, or crank it up the outside....and many of them can achieve mid-term goals like a 200 average. The question is...do they have the fundamentals to get to those bigger goals? Many times that answer is "no". They can strike like mad....but they can't make spares. They can bowl well on one condition, but not another. They have the physical talent but not the experience or mental ability or consistency. Etc..., Etc...

[AlexNC]

I am inclined to think that you may be using your scores as the only indicator of progress. I can't speak for others but I try not to pay attention to the scores during my practice sessions. Isolate the keys you are working on and only worry about that which you are working on (don't worry about "A" when you are working on "B".

[fortheloveofbowling]

Go back to the most basic things and focus on that. Is your footwork/approach fairly consistent? Are you able to retain balance at the foul line? Work on your approach and balance and focus only on that in practice. When you achieve a consistent approach and balance that is the key. The next time you practice make sure your approach feels good again. Then focus solely on your release. Try the 1 step drill for a few games to isolate that part of your game. Just some thoughts. Good luck and hang in there things will fall into place.

[Aslan]

I'm changing my vote.

Give it 2 years and if you're still rolling an occasional series < 500....quit at the end of that season. Thats my new plan.

[vdubtx]

I have to ask why you are bowling backup. Is it just personal preference. Like others have stated it is easier to be consistent if you throw a normal release.

That is my question too.

PAV1983, Is the coach actually teaching you to bowl back up ball?

[fortheloveofbowling]

He stated twice he has switched AWAY FROM a back up release TO A regular release.

[bubba809]

Hey hey hey......No need to yell.

[Tony]

Since the facts are strewn throughout the posts, let me summarize what I understand them to be.

Was avg 150 throwing a backup ball.
Got coaching help to throw a normal hook type ball
After working on it for some time still averaging lower than 150 throwing a normal ball.

Seems pretty normal to take some time when trying to make such a change in style.
It's actually pretty hard to relearn to bowl with a normal delivery, the whole targeting system when throwing backup is
different than throwing a regular ball making this a difficult transition.
I used to bowl with a girl that was a pretty good backup bowler averaging 170 + and when she decided she couldn't improve any more
without changing over to a regular hook she started to make the transition.
It ended up taking her a couple of years to erase all the habits of backup bowling and get back to the same average throwing a regular hook, but keep in mind she only had sporadic "coaching" from friends and almost gave up a couple of times.
She had to fight the inclination to use her targeting from the backup game, her big break through was when she switched from a 16lb ball to a 13 / 14 lb ball temporarily to focus on making the release work correctly for her. She later moved back up to a 15lb (originally she had just plugged and drilled a backup ball.
Just remember to forget everything you knew, was her slogan.

I am not a coach but I did sleep at a holiday inn one time :) good luck!

[Jessiewoodard57]

It took me a LONG time to stop using habits from 30 years ago like coming across the top of the ball. I too started back bowling about 10 months ago. I bowled occasionally 30 years ago back when you really had to put hand on the ball to make it turn. I like you started out sub 300 series but now after 10 months I manage the 175 games. Some old habits are just harder to break. I bowl from a wheelchair so I figured coaching was out so I went the Bowling Academy video route. My game has gotten much better. Recently my PSO was suggesting coaching and I mentioned how would a coach teach someone in a wheel chair since I have no approach? He suggested a few friends of his that are coaches that might be able to help me out. So I think I will look into that. I would say to relax and enjoy the game. Everyone of us have bad days bowling the key is don't dwell on it. I have come from sub 100 games to 170s with a high of 231. I bowl 3 to 4 times a week and like Aslan I read and watch everything bowling. Will I be the next Walter Ray Williams Jr? Absolutely not but I sure can enjoy the game.

[NewToBowling]

Makes sense now why his game has stagnated a bit. Changing from backup to regular is going to take a while.

[fordman1]

If you are athletically inclined, played baseball, football and basketball as a kid you might not have to spend much time to become a good bowler. If you were the last kid picked for the team it will take longer. If you are just an uncoordinated Klutz you will never get there.
Would you rather be a 150 avg. bowler who looks silly throwing a backup ball or a 135-140 bowler who looks good but can't bowl a lick?

[Amyers]

With a drastic change in style I think it can be expected for the averages to remain lower for a while. Going from a backup to a more conventional release is a big adjustment. My oldest daughter had to make this transition and she still struggles with it at times. Keep at it make sure your getting practice in and eventually the light bulb will go off

[Ptnomore]

Stick with it. Unlearning bad habits is REALLY difficult. One thing that MIGHT be worth trying, is learning to bowl with the opposite hand. That way, you are starting from scratch. You'll have to start with a lighter ball, your steps will all be different, etc. I know a few who have done it for medical reasons and have been successful.

If that's not within reason, still stick with it. It's going to take time. The main thing is to stay relaxed, and NOT force it, which frustration tends to make us do. If you throw a bad shot, DON'T TRY TO CORRECT IT on the next shot. Instead, on the next shot, start over. Reset, and do what you know you are supposed to do. If you chase corrections all night, you'll never have a consistent shot.

The coach should be breaking your lessons down into very small chunks...footwork is usually first. That's the ONLY thing you should be concentrating on when you bowl...whatever the coach is trying to get you to learn, whatever that small chunk is.

And MAYBE, bowling in a league right now, isn't right for you either. The pressure of doing well could be impacting your progress. It's obviously impacting your fun. And if it's not fun, it really isn't worth doing. Life is too short.

[bobforsaken]

If you are changing from throwing a backup-ball to a conventional hook, I can imagine a major step backwards and probably a long period of adjustment before it starts to feel comfortable. I think a different coach may be advisable. It's not a condemnation of your coach... but sometimes a different presentation, different words, or different examples may be all that is needed to help it click.

If I were you I would pick up a spare ball and work on rolling it straight. That way you aren't worrying about inconsistent releases due to your change in style, effecting your ability to score. You can work on just staying behind the ball and rolling it straight with good timing and a loose swing. Your spare rate will increase and that will help your scores, and when you are comfortable rolling it straight (and not back-up) you will have a blank canvas for moving towards a conventional hook with your strike ball.