Frustrated by House shot... Doing better on Sport

[bobforsaken]

I just had another stinker of a series. I've been barely holding onto a mid 180's average. Week 1 They had an issue with a new lane machine that basically put out a flat super wet pattern. I bowled terrible (in the 150's). Then they fixed it.. Weeks 2 and 3 I averaged 215 and 210 respectively. Then they changed lane machines again and I haven't been back over a 600 series since the change. I've been grinding out every week, rarely being able to do more than a double from time to time and relying on my spare shooting. What is frustrating is I bowled in a scratch tournament this past weekend and actually averaged better (on eiffel tower). (Same with Sphinx in October)

I've tried for 7 weeks to figure out this house shot but can't seem to get something that gives me a good look. And if I do it changes on the next throw. Most doubles end with what I feel is good ball coming in really high or really weak.. The oil seems to be moving so I never feel I have a breakpoint I can really count on. I've tried BP's of 8, 7, 5.. no matter what it seems to work great for no more than 2 or 3 shots.. and there is no indication that I can see to suggest my next shot is going through the nose or going to leave a washout (Even though I watch the other bowlers).. my migration seems to be left..then back right. then left.. then back right. Most of my stuff is low RG... I tried lots of surface.. Tried changing my release to be more up the back like I do on sport shots (this helped lessen splits at least).. putting my surfaces back up to higher grit. Last night I went all high RG and carry was better but my spare shooting wasn't up to par. Still I couldn't string together strikes until the last game when I went right of everyone and used my tropical breeze.


I"m a low speed lower rev player and usually play between 10 and 14 at the arrows out to breakpoints of 7 or 8. Some folks were averaging in the 220+ are not having issues... But most of the folks who average just about 200 are down. Most of those 220+ guys are higher rev and playing a deeper line. A lot of the bowlers that play straight up the boards with low revs are maintaining their level of success as well.

Any suggestions? At this point I'm thinking I just need to avoid the track area.. Either get something in my hands that allows me to play deeper with a breakpoint left of everyone, or bowl with the tropical breeze and stay right.

[RobLV1]

The very first article that I wrote for BTM back in 2007 had to do with the dangers of preconceptions in bowling, and it's a theme that I keep coming back to. Looking at your post, it is ripe with preconceptions, and I think this is your problem. At the beginning of your post where you say that the center had "an issue with a new lane machine," where you bowled poorly, and then "they fixed it," and you bowled better until "they changed lane machines again." You've tried break points of 8, 7, and 5, but it only works for two or three shots. A lot of the bowlers that play straight up the boards with low revs are doing well, but you keep trying to swing the ball out despite the fact that you too are a low rev, low speed bowler. What would happen if you used a breakpoint at ten, twelve, or even thirteen and went straighter yourself? The simple fact of the matter is that when you try to impose yourself on the lanes, you fail, yet when you play the lanes the way they want to be played, you succeed.

Finally, the most glaring preconception that I see is the idea that you think that you have to use a low rg ball with lots of surface if you want to play inside, or a "weak" ball if you want to play outside. Consider that on any but the longest of patterns, there is friction past the pattern. If you go more direct and play in the oil with a higher rg ball with less surface, you can utilize that friction to your advantage. It may not look as impressive as throwing a big hook, but I have a hunch that it will get the job done for you.

[fordman1]

Lots of technical stuff in this post and it is not the problem. The only people who bowl better on sport conditions are pro bowlers or those close to being one. House hacks should never bowl better on sport shots. All the talk about RG and break point sounds good but most don't have a clue. More often than not it is before you throw the ball. Then speed control. If those two things are not right you will never be any darn good.

[Amyers]

Lots of technical stuff in this post and it is not the problem. The only people who bowl better on sport conditions are pro bowlers or those close to being one. House hacks should never bowl better on sport shots. All the talk about RG and break point sounds good but most don't have a clue. More often than not it is before you throw the ball. Then speed control. If those two things are not right you will never be any darn good.

So Bob is a pro bowler or close to being one now? Their are a lot of sport/challenge conditions I bowl better on that your typical house pattern and believe me I'm no where near a pro bowler. I'm almost 15 pins higher average on my scratch challenge shot league than I am in two of the three houses I bowl on THS. I do get your point that the culprit to his struggles may be more physical than equipment or line (if that's what you were getting at) but I don't agree that dismissing knowledge is ever a good idea. Also if he's averaging better than 180 on what are some pretty difficult shots the problem on his THS league most likely is equipment, line, or mental related. You don't throw those kind of scores on those patterns by getting "lucky".

[fordman1]

Oh I have seen bowlers who throw pretty straight and hard do better on the sport shot than the house. Most don't have a clue on either. Being a great athlete is a great asset to have. I think a great athlete can pick up bowling much easier than a klutz who practices all the time. You are either coordinated or not. And yes speed it one of the most important parts of the game.

[Amyers]

Oh I have seen bowlers who throw pretty straight and hard do better on the sport shot than the house. Most don't have a clue on either. Being a great athlete is a great asset to have. I think a great athlete can pick up bowling much easier than a klutz who practices all the time. You are either coordinated or not. And yes speed it one of the most important parts of the game.

You are 0-2 with that one as far as I go. I throw neither straight or hard. I'm about 12 MPH and 250 revs my ball is anything but straight or hard. I think that most of the challenge patterns they have picked have either had oil farther out say 5 which gives me additional room that I don't normally have or been longer which gives the same effect. The only bowlers I have ever seen with general success on sports patterns are the ones who can control their break point. It really doesn't matter how much revs or how hard you throw or even how accurate you are at the arrows on tougher patterns if you can't control where the ball is 45-50 feet down the lane your going to struggle if you can and you can shoot spares you got a shot.

[scottymoney]

The most important thing on any pattern is the length. I don't care much for any of the details, other than where the oil stops at X feet. From there I can figure out the breakpoint and know where the ball needs to be coming out the end of the pattern.

House Shots - usually around 10
short patterns - outside of 10
longer patterns - inside of 10

Once this concept is learned then you just need to get your ball to roughly that board at the end of the pattern. Yes this works for House shots. When I am struggling on a house shot, one of the first things I check is where is my ball at roughly 40 feet. if it is not around the 10 board my first reaction is to change so that I can get it there.

[fordman1]

Amy you aren't listening. If you throw hard with very little hook where the oil in don't matter. They might get a little help from more oil in their control.90% of the bowlers will not bowl nearly as good on sport shots.

[Amyers]

Amy you aren't listening. If you throw hard with very little hook where the oil in don't matter. They might get a little help from more oil in their control.90% of the bowlers will not bowl nearly as good on sport shots.

It's not me not listening. I never said that 90% of bowlers would bowl better on sport shots and I was not discussing speed dominate bowlers either. The OP remarked that he was averaging higher on sport shots at them moment as I am at the moment. The Sport/Challenge shots I've been bowling on fit my game well and actually seem to be offering me improved scores. Now if later I bowl on some patterns that don't fit my game well that may change in a hurry. I don't know too many of the kids who like whizzing the ball at 20 mph out bowling in sport leagues/tournaments. So do you actually have a useful point here?

[fordman1]

I can't argue with someone who is so much more knowledgeable than I am. Every one I have ever seen bowl on a PBA or real sport shot is down at least 20 to 30 pins.

[RobLV1]

lots of technical stuff in this post and it is not the problem. The only people who bowl better on sport conditions are pro bowlers or those close to being one. House hacks should never bowl better on sport shots. All the talk about rg and break point sounds good but most don't have a clue. More often than not it is before you throw the ball. Then speed control. If those two things are not right you will never be any darn good.

pretty scary!

[fokai73]

I don't try to figure things out anymore when it comes to my average or whatever when it comes to THS vs sport pattern and averages. Bowling on THS with different type of balls surfaces from poly to super chargers and different types of styles, the THS pattern can be tough like a sport pattern. And, when bowling with good accurate bowlers on a pair and on Sport patterns can be like bowling a THS.

I don't try to figure out why I am very close in average on THS and Sport, less than 6 pins. I just do my thing, pay attention to ball motion and reaction, watch pin action, and try my best to stay ahead of the pattern.

Ball surface is key, but the main thing is to adjust to what the lanes tell you and not what you think how the lanes should be played. And with graphs, I just want to know two things. 1. volume 2. length that's it.

[bobforsaken]

The very first article that I wrote for BTM back in 2007 had to do with the dangers of preconceptions in bowling, and it's a theme that I keep coming back to. Looking at your post, it is ripe with preconceptions, and I think this is your problem. At the beginning of your post where you say that the center had "an issue with a new lane machine," where you bowled poorly, and then "they fixed it," and you bowled better until "they changed lane machines again." You've tried break points of 8, 7, and 5, but it only works for two or three shots. A lot of the bowlers that play straight up the boards with low revs are doing well, but you keep trying to swing the ball out despite the fact that you too are a low rev, low speed bowler. What would happen if you used a breakpoint at ten, twelve, or even thirteen and went straighter yourself? The simple fact of the matter is that when you try to impose yourself on the lanes, you fail, yet when you play the lanes the way they want to be played, you succeed.

Finally, the most glaring preconception that I see is the idea that you think that you have to use a low rg ball with lots of surface if you want to play inside, or a "weak" ball if you want to play outside. Consider that on any but the longest of patterns, there is friction past the pattern. If you go more direct and play in the oil with a higher rg ball with less surface, you can utilize that friction to your advantage. It may not look as impressive as throwing a big hook, but I have a hunch that it will get the job done for you.


First of all.. thank you for the response. I'm a "low speed low rev" player but i"m not trying to circle the lane because it looks cool. I'm fairly well "matched". So if I were to play straight up the 8 board, like some gentleman did a few weeks ago and did well, I'd go through the nose, even with my tropical breeze. As a matter of fact I, did that last night when I tried to use the tropical breeze, I expected to play up the 8 board but it hooked too early and went brooklyn. I finally had to cross the arrows at 10 or 11 and out to 7 or 8 at the break point with the tropical breeze.

Second.. if my tugs inside are any indication playing up straight up to a BP of 12, 13 etc.. would result in hitting in the hook phase unless I did some surface changes and speed adjustments. When I miss inside playing a shallow angle I end up with essentially up the 12 board and it usually results in a 2 pin combo.

Lastly, I'll take your point about preconceptions. Of course... I'm trying to come up with an idea to try, that doesn't mean I'm married to it and force it all night long... but i want to come up with some idea of something to try... also, I don't believe I ever said anything about low RG with lots of surface to play inside or a "weak" ball to play outside. As a matter of fact my high RG balls worked better on the long eiffel pattern so I through my Hy-road pearl almost exclusively playing very close to strait up the 13.... (Although it broke down quick on wood back ends so I ended up swinging it to 13) My plan last night was to start out the night with my Higher RG balls because I theorized that I was not carrying because I was burning up but not recognizing it.

I ended up talking to very good scratch bowler/Coach about the new Lane machine at this particular house. His take on it was it was much wetter in the middle and much dryer on the outsides than it used to be. He plays a breakpoint of about 5 but plays with much more angle through the front than I do, as he has much more hand. He thought that playing that breakpoint of 7 or 8 with my angle through the front is right is having me ride that oil too long. With its higher volume and the crisp outsides, the oil is getting pushed right into my line as those playing deeper than me are running their ball out to 5 or 6. So, my thought for this week is sharper angles through the front and breakpoint of 5 or 6. When I had tried this before I was throwing lots of splits, but at the time I was releasing with a lot more AOR. I'll have to make sure I bring some balls with a smoother backend reaction and/or surface.

[bobforsaken]

Lots of technical stuff in this post and it is not the problem. The only people who bowl better on sport conditions are pro bowlers or those close to being one. House hacks should never bowl better on sport shots. All the talk about RG and break point sounds good but most don't have a clue. More often than not it is before you throw the ball. Then speed control. If those two things are not right you will never be any darn good.

Better by only a few pins.. I guess I should say "the same". My only point being that I have to grind out on this house shot the same way I do on the sport shots i've faced... very few strings of strikes (although a good number of strikes over all) and a lot of spares.

As for most folks being 20 pins left on the sport shots.. that's probably because they rev the crap out of the ball and carry their poor shots on the THS. I don't.. If I miss a board Right at the arrows I can guarantee a 10 pin.. I I miss a board left I'm leaving a 2 pin or worse. If I hit my target dead nuts, then my speed control or release may lead to a 10 pin or 4 pin.. 7 pin 9 pin etc... on THIS house shot I feel like I have to be just as perfect to strike as I have had to be on some of the sport conditions I've faced recently. I went to another house to try out a new ball (just Ebay'd a Marvel S) and I was carrying all the garbage throws.