Videos: Slumping for last 2 month.. Need Help.

[bobforsaken]

So about two months ago, they changed the Lane machine and I've not been able to put together a 600 series since. The problem had been the first game where it seemed my shot would go away after about 2 shots leaving me with many X 9/ X 9/ S81 Types of games. My spare shooting was keeping me in the upper 180's and now (due to frustration perhaps) I'm even losing that now. The "pairs" of lanes seem to be much more dramatically different than they ever were before, perhaps accentuated by the the new Oil pattern. For example, last night I had to play a breakpoint of 4-5 on one lane and breakpoint of 10-11 on the other after the lanes transitioned. (Although they started almost the same).

I went back tonight to play on the same pair. They were of course different than they were the night before but I don't believe they were oiled. I was playing 28 to 16(at the arrows) and 24 to 13 on the other lane. I was mostly exploring some difference in my balls but I captured a few videos. Please look at them and tell me what I'm missing.

First was a good shot on Lane 18 with the Optimus.. That is my line i'm trying to play. The Marvel Pearl I use in the next two videos is the same cover, same surface and very similar core specs. Shape of the shot is different but I "should" be able to hit pocket with the Marvel Pearl and X.
http://www.hudl.com/technique/video/view/oNgCCqBI?e=3621315

Marvel Pearl missed One board Right at the Arrows.
http://www.hudl.com/technique/video/view/RCq6c0RZ?e=3621163#

Marvel Pearl missed one board left at the arrows.
http://www.hudl.com/technique/video/view/B00ZwHFD?e=3621093#

Last was an OK shot on Lane 17.... It X but hit weak. I show it because its a Side view shot
http://www.hudl.com/technique/video/view/LKYdS1mn?e=3621161#

[mc_runner]

Couple of things I'm seeing right off the bat... disclaimer, I'm far from an expert.

1. Your first step is HUGE.
2. Your swing starts late. This can lead to inconsistencies throughout the rest of your releases, espcially if you're trying to catch it up. The one board left and right misses at the arrows looks like it equated to about 8 boards at the breakpoint... probably from 3 to about 11?

Personally, I'd work on timing but I don't want to give any real advice knowing there are a lot of people on this board a lot more knowledgeable in coaching areas than I am. More wanted to share what I observed :)

[shadd]

Not here to offer any coaching (I'm totally not qualified), sorry. I do have a question, why the "noise" (body motion) and shoulder shift to ~45 degrees prior to 1st step?

[vdubtx]

Agree on prior comment about movement in stance of the ball. Set yourself in one position and then start your approach.

Big first step and ball starts moving into swing on 3rd step. In 5 step ball should start swing on step 2, that leads to timing being off.

Not a coach, just expanding on what others saw.

[Tony]

Once again not a coach, I did notice some of the same items mentioned before and wonder if that has always been your approach and footwork. Over the past year or so I have watched much more intently the other bowlers and have noticed many of the guys who have been bowling a long time around my area are using late timing. This would account for your not starting the ball motion until the 3rd step, however if that's your normal timing and you want to keep it then it appears you're moving your feet too fast to allow the ball to catch up.
I am a late timing 4 step bowler and find my problems usually start when I speed up my feet faster than my ball motion can handle. I know this is not the preferred delivery and I have attempted to change to the normal timing, and failed terribly at that. The key for me is a small first step and staying on the slow deliberate pace to the line.
If this is the exact same delivery you have been using it with success then maybe something else is at fault, you said they changed the lane oil patterns, have you tried different balls or changed the surface on the balls you have to change the reaction to the oil change ?

[fokai73]

Just a suggestion on taking videos for proper evaluation of your game.

From behind: the video must see your whole body/approach directly behind you. 1. to see your foot work from start to finish. 2. how the ball is set up in relation to your body. 3. the direction of you swing. 4. the release. to name a few.

From the side: Again, visual of your whole body with the camera on the ball side at least two lanes away. The camera man/woman should stand at the foul line two lanes away and follow your approach. 1. to see timing. 2. body/head position in relationship to your steps. 3. again footwork. 4. spine tilt. 5. finish

To fully understand where I'm going with this, google Mark Baker coach. He's DVD "the system" is a good tool if finding a good local coach is hard to find.

good luck and good bowling

[fortheloveofbowling]

I paused on all your steps several times and the timing looks pretty good from the side to me. When your 3rd step hits the floor the ball is next to your leg and the 4th step the ball is at the highest part of your back swing. Like others have commented 1 would get rid of the over abundance of ball and foot movement in your stance. Most bowlers have a trigger in their stance to start their approach. That is fine and i'm sure the movement you have is just that but i would limit it severely in your case. Beside that the only thing i would like to see is a little more aggressiveness through the end of your swing. All in all decent looking approach, you can tell a lot by watching the bowlers head and how steady it is along the decline of height.

Having said all of that, you really did not ask for approach assistance. The marvel pearl and optimus are very similar with the exact same surface. If you have something with some surface i would try that for a different motion and try to play a little closer to the shim (where dry meets oil). If you only have the 2 you mentioned i would try messing around with the marvel just because i personally love my optimus. Don't be afraid to try different surfaces and ball paths you may find something that fits your game better. Just my .02 worth and good luck with your game.

[bobforsaken]

I want to thank everyone who took the time to look at the videos and share their thoughts. I just wrote a bit response and hit "reply to thread" instead of "post quick reply".. Ugh... So this is my second time responding so I'll keep things a bit short.
1) Looked at videos from before when I was bowling great, and the timing looks the same. My first step is HUGE and I'm going to try and correct that. I think its delaying me getting the ball into the swing because of how off balance I must be with that large step. I also will try to slow down my feet.
2) I have several balls and have tried several surfaces. That is primarily how I've been trying to fix my struggles. Unfortunately in the past 8 weeks the oil pattern has changed once or twice due to machine maintenance and "tweaking". So what I had tried the first time may help me today, but I haven't circled back around to try it again. I had tried more surface on all my balls (1500 Polish -> 4000, 4000-> 3000 etc)
Today the balls I bring are:
Hy-road 1500 Polish
Hy-Road Pearl 1500 Polish
Marvel Pearl (4000)
Marvel-S (3000)

And one of the Following
Optimus (4000) (was at 2000 and in my bag instead of the Marvel-S Prior to last week)
Fusion (3000)
Tropical Breeze (1500 Polish)
Thug Unruly (at 500/Royal Compound, was at 2000)

I spoke to a bowler that bowled a 300 Thursday while he was bowling a Tournament this morning. He said that since they changed the lane machine he is 5 boards farther right from where he was and playing a breakpoint of 5 to 1 with a very aggressive ball. I don't think I've tried a breakpoint that far right... Gonna give it a shot this afternoon.

Thanks!

[bobforsaken]

So last night I tried to play a breakpoint of 4 or 5. It forced me to, what felt like, a much steeper angle. I also focused on slowing my feet down and I did pretty well. Bowled two games in the 230's and I was switching between balls to compare them as I went. (so purposely switching balls when I'm stringing strikes to see how another ball compares. Other than being confused between the difference in my balls, I felt pretty good. Now hopefully I can get my spares back, now. Going back today to work on spares and see if playing steeper works on another pair.

[fokai73]

My honest opinion, find a qualified coach who can work with your approach. Scoring well on house shots can masks your mistakes as well as mine.

I'm a feel bowler from start to finish. When I'm in a slump, some parts of my game doesn't feel right. I seek a third eye to help me with my game. Even in a funk I can shoot big games, but it's a roller coaster. My ball motion looks sloppy as well.

Our approach should ideally be like how we walk. knowing how many boards we drift or don't drift can help improve consistency. Also, when our head goes up and down and/or shoulder drops before the end of the push away, those can cause bad accuracy. This is an example of what I imagine the approach should be: Level, level, level .75, drop, slide forward. For 5 step approach.

Your release is fine. Your trigger at the start, just minimize it. Lifting or moving the ball around too much with the weight on your bowling hand activates your muscles too early. Norm duke seesaw from side to side, PWD steps back then forward. I wiggle my elbow to loosen my arm. Everyone's different.

Good luck and good bowling

[fokai73]

Btw, "slow down me feet" that's not a good idea. Just walk..

[Tony]

So last night I tried to play a breakpoint of 4 or 5. It forced me to, what felt like, a much steeper angle. I also focused on slowing my feet down and I did pretty well. Bowled two games in the 230's and I was switching between balls to compare them as I went. (so purposely switching balls when I'm stringing strikes to see how another ball compares. Other than being confused between the difference in my balls, I felt pretty good. Now hopefully I can get my spares back, now. Going back today to work on spares and see if playing steeper works on another pair.

Sounds pretty promising!

[dnhoffman]

Two things:

1) watching your stance is like watching the Blair Witch Trial, as stated above - stop that, it will also have the side effect of stopping everyone from laughing when you do it.

2) you're trying to change too many factors and overcomplicating things far too much... Keep it simple, keep it comfortable, and keep it consistent

[Aslan]

1) watching your stance is like watching the Blair Witch Trial, as stated above - stop that, it will also have the side effect of stopping everyone from laughing when you do it.

Well. There goes my weekend entertainment. :mad:

[bobforsaken]

Two things:

1) watching your stance is like watching the Blair Witch Trial, as stated above - stop that, it will also have the side effect of stopping everyone from laughing when you do it.

2) you're trying to change too many factors and overcomplicating things far too much... Keep it simple, keep it comfortable, and keep it consistent

Wow.. tough crowd.. I didn't think my pre-shot shoulder shrug was that bad. It's my attempt to keep my arm loose while do the rest of my pre-shot routine. (Ie looking at focal point, staring at target etc..

I was honestly hoping that someone would see something with the ball motion or where I'm playing the lanes, more than focusing on my physical game. Other than starting to miss spares the week I've actually felt very solid with my physical game most nights. I've been doing scratch tournaments the past few months and really have been scoring just about as well on those tough shots as I have on the house shot, which Is why I think it has something to do with the way I'm playing the lanes, not giving me decent margin for error. Not getting proper midlane read.. or sufficient entry angle.. things like that.

Still thanks to all that offered suggestions.

[Aslan]

Wow.. tough crowd..



Don't get discouraged. DHoff has been in a generally bad mood for about the last 16 years.

I think people got confused when you posted a video but asked for feedback on ball selection. That's like asking for a critique of your automobile by posting a video of you getting in and out of a car. If you're happy with your physical game...it really doesn't matter what ball you throw...you can make a house ball work if you wanted to.

If you want more information on your arsenal....I'd post a "critique my arsenal" thread and then some of the more technical spec guys will have a nerdfest answering every minute question...some of us LOVE talking numbers. RobM has also written quite a bit on modernbowling and BTM about arsenals and ball specs.

But if your physical game is working...and suddenly you're in a slump due to a pattern change...you'll just have to find a new line/ball combo. There's also the off chance that your ball or balls have "died". I think that's an over-used reason by bowlers looking for an excuse to buy more bowling balls....but depending on how many games you've rolled with those balls...you might just be seeing diminishing results. Maybe time for a resurface? Maybe not.

[mc_runner]

I mentioned it shortly in my post - your one board misses are translating into a large area down the lane. From my last view it looked like an 8 board swing between the 2 misses or so. That tells me you need to change your line to give yourself a little more wiggle room at the arrows. Maybe a bit more down&in approach could help, with a ball that can get down the lane some.

[dnhoffman]

Take it easy Blair witch trial! And don't listen to Aslan around here unless your goal is to ultimately own 35 bowling balls all drilled for a THS and still have a 180 average.

My point is this, by starting every throw with that giant inconsistent movement you basically introduce way too many variables to accurately offer any advice before fixing it.

Take a look at videos on hinge and push away if you'd like, the issue is that with that crazy twitching you're doing to 'loosen up' what you're actually doing is introducing variables to your swing path, speed, timing, and possibly many other things like grip, release, axis tilt, etc. My opinion is anyone trying to offer you advice on equipment when they can't even accurately asses your game (because those variables are too inconsistent) probably shouldn't be giving anyone bowling advice at all.

But hey it's the internet, grab a parachute and jump my man!