Diary of Madman

[Aslan]

I wasn't going to post this because I'm just "DONE" at this point. Maybe things turn around soon. I'm committed to one league till March and another league till May and to the BVL tournament in a couple weeks...but my bowling "career" may be nearing the end. And I'm trying to avoid participating too much on the site right now because:

1) Why would I? To offer below average advice from a below average bowler? In other words, there are REAL pros and REAL experts on this site...and a few high average bowlers that I should have listened to more in the beginning and I just don't have the same level of expertise to offer that they do so, listen to them, not me.

2) There's a great "resurgence" of new members right now who are very active and I don't want to turn them off by dominating the site conversations as I have in the past.

3) I'm trying to avoid "Bowling God" status because in my case, it just means I spend WAY too much time jabbering on endlessly on this site...NOT....because I'm skilled or have a lot to offer.

That being said, there was a LOT of discussion recently about when and how to make changes and what changes to make. So rather than deal in hypothetical situations, I thought I would take notes during my recent league night(mare) to give some impression to Amyers and Rob and others so they can at least get a picture of what I saw, what I did or didn't do, and maybe they can take this and (while I think I'm beyond help at this point) maybe others can get some value out of it.

< Post to Follow >

[Aslan]

Pre-League Lesson: Speed was high. Worked on relaxing. Have been working on getting lower at the line and STAYING low versus my tendency to "pop up" as I release the ball...which causes my hand position to change and then I'm releasing the ball more on top than under or behind. Things were working well.

Pre-League 15-min Practice: Was coming in wide right. Speed was still a bit too high. I was hoping to maybe get a chance to try some other balls, but after trying different lines to try and get back to the pocket...I was out of time and league play was starting.

GAME 1:
Frame 1, Right Lane: Timing was okay, slight miss left, Brooklyn strike. Speed = 17.79 (at the pins).
Since I missed left, and my speed was high, I didn't make a move.

Frame 2, Left Lane: Timing good. slight miss right of target, left a single 5-pin, picked up the spare. Speed 17.67.
Made a slight 0.5 board move right with my feet to se if maybe it was just that I was playing a little to aggressive of a line.

Frame 3: Timing okay, hit target, left the 5-pin again (different lane). Picked up a spare. Speed = 18.17.
Made a 0.5 board right with my feet (same as above).

Frame 4: Timing okay. hit target, left a single 2-pin, missed it just right. Speed = 16.87.

At this point, I decided to move up in the approach to lower my speed. I'm not sure why, with a sore elbow, sore shoulder, and trying to relax...that I'm firing it like I am...but I figured if I move up in the approach I could lower the speed and stop leaving 2-pins and 5-pins.

Frame 5: Timing okay. hit target. Strike. Speed = 17.89.
Wasn't happy with the speed, but happy with the result. No changes.

Frame 6: Timing off, missed way right, left the 1-2-3-4-5-7-8. Failed to convert. Speed = 16.83.
No adjustment off such a bad shot.

Frame 7: Timing marginal, slight miss left, Strike through the head. Speed = 16.57.
Made a 2:1 adjustment left.

Frame 8: Used wrong line. Opened. Speed = 16.81.
No adjustment off a shot on the wrong line.

Frame 9: Okay timing, hit target, left a 2-4-5 and converted it. Speed = 16.87.
Decided to make a ball change to the Dark Encounter and move 2:1 right. It's a similar ball but goes a little longer due to it being Columbia versus Brunswick. Has a little polish on it, so hopefully it would retain some energy downline.

Frame 10: Still using Lethal Revolver on left lane. Missed way right. Left a 1-5. Couldn't convert. Speed = 16.71.
Decided to move to the Dark Encounter on this lane as well and move a 1.5:0.5 move right.

< Game 2 to follow >

[Aslan]

Frame 1 (left lane): Timing marginal, hit target, left a 1-2 and converted. Speed = 15.93.
Made a slight 0.5 board move right with my feet thinking maybe it was just a slight line adjustment needed with the weaker ball.

Frame 2 (right lane): Timing good, hit target, Strike. Speed = 16.52.

Frame 3: Timing off. Hit target. Through the nose. Left a 4-7 and converted it. Speed = ?.
Despite it possibly being a timing issue, I made a 2:1 move left.

Frame 4: Timing okay. Slight miss right. Left a 1-2-4 and couldn't convert. Speed = 15.68.

Frame 5: Timing good. Hit target. Strike. Speed = 16.74.

Frame 6: Timing bad. Pulled it. Left a 3-9 and couldn't convert. Speed = 17.41.

Frame 7: Timing good. Hit target. Strike. Speed = 16.82.

Frame 8: Timing okay. Missed 2-3 boards right. Left a 2-5. Concerted. Speed = ?.

Frame 9: Timing good. Lofted it a bit too much. Left a 5-10 split with no conversion. Speed = 17.61.

Frame 10: Pulled it and missed left. Then lofted it and missed right.

< Game 3 to follow >

[Aslan]

Game 3:

Frame 1 (right lane): Timing Good, hit target, Brooklyn strike. Speed = ?.
Made a 3:2 move left.

Frame 2 (left lane): Timing good, hit target, 3-10 baby split, couldn't convert. Speed = 16.7.
Made a 2:1 move left.

Frame 3: Timing good, hit target, Brooklyn and left a 5-pin. Converted. Speed = 16.83.
Made another 3:2 move left.

Frame 4: Timing okay. hit target, Left a 5-9 and converted. Speed = ?.
Made a 3:2 move left.

Frame 5: Timing bad, hit target, left a 1-2-4-7 and didn't convert. Speed = 15.85.
Moved back 3:2 right and switched to the Asylum on this lane.

Frame 6 (D.E.): Timing good. Hit target. Strike (light). Speed = 16.06.

Frame 7 (Asylum): Timing okay. Hit target. Through the nose and left a 6-10 and missed it. Speed = 16.91.
Made a 2:1 move left.

Frame 8 (D.E.): Timing bad. Hit target. Brooklyn strike. Speed = 15.81.
Made another 3:2 move left.

Frame 9 (Asylum): Timing good. Missed target 1.5 boards right. Strike. Speed = 17.73.

Frame 10 (D.E.): Timing questionable. Hit target. Light hit and left a 5-pin. Converted and struck on the fill shot. Speed = 16.9.

So, there it is. Obviously a video would speak 1000 words. But here you have a complete script of what I did, what I didn't do, what I noticed (or didn't notice), and what adjustments I made (or didn't make). Hopefully the experts can chime in and others can learn something from it.

[shadd]

...2) There's a great "resurgence" of new members right now who are very active and I don't want to turn them off by dominating the site conversations as I have in the past. After a few weeks of trolling the boards I decided to sign up and join the conversation based somewhat on your posts. If I remember correctly, I think my 1st post included a joke about you sleeping with a bunch of bowling balls. Sooooo, I kinda disagree with this statement.

3) I'm trying to avoid "Bowling God" status because in my case, it just means I spend WAY too much time jabbering on endlessly on this site...NOT....because I'm skilled or have a lot to offer. As you said, the status is based solely on forum activity...I wouldn't get too hung up on it, 3-4 posts a day isn't that much. If its an issue with you , create a new account and start at "what is bowling" status.


If you are unhappy with bowling and contributing on the boards, by all means walk away/take a break. If you feel somewhat embarrassed by the "bowling god " status and this is why you want to leave, I'd say that's silly...stick around and keep up with the "entertainment".

[jab5325]

Aslan, FWIW, I enjoy reading your perspective.

It's both enlightening and entertaining.

[bubba809]

Ok, reality check in 3...2...1...

I've seen you threaten to quit many times now. I've seen you sulk and wonder if you have been just wasting your life. I've seen you throw around so many variables and statistics on why it should be going much better for you. People ALWAYS have supported you. Even if it was tough love (Rob, Mike, Ice). Most posters would always have the response, "No Aslan!! You spent so much effort and time into this. PLEASE don't walk away from bowling. We need you!!" You continue on your journey and post your scores with elaborate subtext. Then, again, you resort back to the self-loathing and ramblings of "I should just quit". Whether it has been the fact you have spent A LOT of time and money on your bowling lessons and have not found the improvement you expect or the amount of games you have bowled that would naturally equate into excellent muscle memory by now.

Or perhaps it's the health related issues by the numerous body aches you suffer from. Guess what? We all have issues. Health related or not. Everyone deals with their own set of life problems. Maybe you do not have "The Gift" and one cannot be taught the "Gift". We've heard it before. The major difference is, we don't come on the board and constantly threaten to quit the game (even if it has entered our head). You know how many times I have a bad night or go into a slump and don't feel like bowling anymore??? Only my dog hears me go off and he is half deaf. It is clear to me now, every time you say you should just give it up, the supporters come running and give your the morale boost you are looking for. Maybe it is simple as just a case of lack of self esteem. Or perhaps it is effecting you so much you should in fact quit. Either way, the constant "bluffs" need to stop.


*This coming from someone who thinks Aslan is a good guy and thoroughly enjoys 98% of of his posts.

[Amyers]

I wasn't going to post this because I'm just "DONE" at this point. Maybe things turn around soon. I'm committed to one league till March and another league till May and to the BVL tournament in a couple weeks...but my bowling "career" may be nearing the end. And I'm trying to avoid participating too much on the site right now because:

1) Why would I? To offer below average advice from a below average bowler? In other words, there are REAL pros and REAL experts on this site...and a few high average bowlers that I should have listened to more in the beginning and I just don't have the same level of expertise to offer that they do so, listen to them, not me.

2) There's a great "resurgence" of new members right now who are very active and I don't want to turn them off by dominating the site conversations as I have in the past.

3) I'm trying to avoid "Bowling God" status because in my case, it just means I spend WAY too much time jabbering on endlessly on this site...NOT....because I'm skilled or have a lot to offer.

That being said, there was a LOT of discussion recently about when and how to make changes and what changes to make. So rather than deal in hypothetical situations, I thought I would take notes during my recent league night(mare) to give some impression to Amyers and Rob and others so they can at least get a picture of what I saw, what I did or didn't do, and maybe they can take this and (while I think I'm beyond help at this point) maybe others can get some value out of it.

< Post to Follow >

Rob knows way more about your game than I do so he would be able to make more and better comments than I but as usual I'll stick my two cents in. A few general comments to start you are way too speed dominate for the abilities in your release. My current PSO is a big believer until you get yourself into a very good place bowling wise anything much over 15mph is a mistake. You've got PBA caliber speed with a weak release and that's what is causing the washouts, weak hits, and some of the misses left as you are trying to make the ball do what it can't. Your two options here are to seriously ball up something along the lines of a Guru (on sale) or maybe a Black Widow Red Legend and it might help or the less expensive route slow the D### ball down. You will even notice here most of your better shots are in the 16mph range it allows the ball to actually read the lane instead of you having to make a perfect shot to put it in the pocket and it allow the ball to roll instead of skidding to the pocket which is causing some of the 5 pins.

You've been posting about not making adjustments off bad shots here lately. My GOD man how many adjustments would you make if they were all good shots? 14 adjustments and 2 ball changes over 3 games is my count here. Some of the adjustments were small but good god I generally move 2-5 times and 1 ball change for the entire night and that's on my 5 man team league. Your like a drunken sailor wobbling around the lanes. I do have a tendency to do this when I'm bowling badly and looking for something but never to this extent.

Game 1- 2nd shot you left a 5 pin and moved right with the feet. This was the wrong move most likely as a 5 pin is a weak hit 2-1 right or your line needed to shift right because the ball wasn't rolling when it hit the pins (more surface or lower speed) same problem on 3rd shot and moved again right with the feet (so was this a board move total or 1/2 on each lane?) 5 was a strike but very high speed. 6 bad shot no adjustment. You missed left on shot 7 but still adjusted left not sure why you would do that and I think it's what caused your problems for shots 8,9, and 10. From what you've related here I would have maybe made a adjustment 1-1 right for the entire game changing to the DE here was a mistake that I will address later in my opinion.

Game 2- You move around less looks like you were having so accuracy issues but didn't see anything where I thought you moved incorrectly

Game 3- The problem here was the bad shots at the end of game 2 lanes changed and you didn't catch it or maybe the shots weren't as bad as you thought and the lanes were just transitioning. This where you paid for bringing the DE out too early. The move here should have been balling up to the DE and maybe a 2-1 left instead you tried to ball down and move right which is never a good choice. Ball down and keep your line or ball up and move left don't ball down and move right. Also 6-4 is too much of a move you simply are not that versatile 3-2 and 2-1 might have worked there.

In general too much ball speed kills your biggest issue is the opposite end of where I've been with too much revs for my speed. Fix that get back down 15-16 mph and some of these issues will go away. You are being too hard on yourself too and over thinking the game. With your issues with washouts and weak hits I think I would be a little slower to adjust left off a high hit that carries at least on this night it never worked for you maybe only move left after consecutive high hits or wait till something bad happens to move it can't work any worse.

As far as the rest of this crap about the bowling god goes quit worrying about it. It's a post counter on website you're entertaining and we can learn just as much from our mistakes as we can from our success. Often I have found I learned much more from finding out I was wrong than I ever have from being right. There are things I've argued about with Rob and some of the others that I sit back and think about now and I my opinion has changed on. I think there are a few things maybe some of the others who argued with me may have changed there. I know some of the advice I have given others have helped them and I know others have learned things from you. That's the reason why we are here is to share our experiences, have fun, and learn from each others mistakes and successes not some stupid post counter on a web site. Now for the best advice I can give (my daughter gets it all the time) Get your head out of your a** and go bowl.

[AlexNC]

I can relate to the frustration you have with your game, though I express it in a different way. From my perspective it seems you tend to overanalyze things and try and micromanage every detail of your game - hence the detailed analysis of every shot provided above. I'm not in a position to give advice on your technique as I am in a similar progression in my own game, but with the mindset you have I can't imagine being relaxed enough to have success on a given night.

[vdubtx]

PLEASE DON'T LEAVE, YOU ARE WHAT MAKES THIS FORUM WORTH COMING TO DAY AFTER DAY AFTER DAY!!

That's what you want to hear isn't it??:rolleyes: :p

I say that in jest, but really Aslan, I sure hope you aren't going to invest so much time to just leave the game because you are frustrated. You are too dedicated, as we all know, to have come this far with your game(yes you have come a long way) and then just give it up.

This game takes work and the more work you put in, the results will come to you. I think what you have done is put so much time in the technical micro-details that it is impairing your game. You have too much going through your head at any given time when you are bowling. Stick to the basics man. Too much information as what you may be experiencing, can be a detriment.

[Aslan]

You've got PBA caliber speed with a weak release and that's what is causing the washouts, weak hits, and some of the misses left as you are trying to make the ball do what it can't.
Ding Ding Ding!! Very good point. Average PBA speed at the pins is 18-19mph. Mine started out in the upper 17s. And you're right, I just don't have the release, axis tilt, nor rev rate to compensate.

But, in my defense, I DID change my approach after 4 frames to address this. It just didn't work.


Your two options here are to seriously ball up something along the lines of a Guru (on sale) or maybe a Black Widow Red Legend
Not sure a Widow is that much stronger, but I've felt the same thing on Mondays that most of the higher speed guys are throwing very strong equipment and I'm trying to do the same thing with weaker equipment.


You will even notice here most of your better shots are in the 16mph range it allows the ball to actually read the lane instead of you having to make a perfect shot to put it in the pocket and it allow the ball to roll instead of skidding to the pocket which is causing some of the 5 pins.
True. Thats whats one of the most frustrating things. You'll see that I rarely missed my target...and if I did it was usually 1.5 boards to 3 boards at most. So many bowlers average in the 200s and talk about all this "miss room" that they have...I have ZERO miss room. One board isn't a weak strike...it's a washout. And one board left is a split.


You've been posting about not making adjustments off bad shots here lately. My GOD man how many adjustments would you make if they were all good shots? 14 adjustments and 2 ball changes over 3 games...I do have a tendency to do this when I'm bowling badly and looking for something but never to this extent.
True. And like you, when things are going WELL...I don't move as much. More than most bowlers because of my systematic approach...but more than one ball change and/or more than one 3:2 in any direction and it's a good indicator that I'm having a bad night and not finding my line.


Game 1- 2nd shot you left a 5 pin and moved right with the feet. This was the wrong move most likely as a 5 pin is a weak hit 2-1 right or your line needed to shift right because the ball wasn't rolling when it hit the pins (more surface or lower speed) same problem on 3rd shot and moved again right with the feet (so was this a board move total or 1/2 on each lane?)
1/2 on each lane. Normally I'd make a 2:1 right in both those instances, but I was trying to stay inside the oil a little bit to conserve energy downline. In practice I tried throwing up the 5-6 board but wasn't making it back to the pocket...even out there...and I had to think that was because the ball was just burnt up out there.


5 was a strike but very high speed. 6 bad shot no adjustment. You missed left on shot 7 but still adjusted left not sure why you would do that and I think it's what caused your problems for shots 8,9, and 10. [QUOTE]
I figured the miss left wasn't that severe and given it went through the nose...I figured even if I hit my target on the next shot...the line was probably starting to transition....might as well stay ahead of it.

[QUOTE=Amyers;138260]Game 3...Ball down and keep your line or ball up and move left don't ball down and move right.
The D.E. is a ball DOWN, not up. I know that doesn't make sense given the RG values, but the Brunswick cover is far stronger than the Columbia cover, especially with a little polish added to the D.E. My system for moving is actually quite simple. Leave a 4, 9, or 4-9 and you move 1:1 left. Through the nose is 2:1 left. Brooklyn is 3:2 left.

The problem I've had with that system is that it assumes your arsenal is perfectly designed. If it's not, which most aren't, you could move left, lose your line, ball down, and miss right even more. So, if I move left and end up missing right, that tells me the other line was working, but it was time to ball down. The new line isn't working, so obviously, it won't work with a ball that breaks even later. So the 3:2 back right, was just to get back to the last line that worked...THEN ball down.

Sometime this weekend I'm gonna go bowl with my old conventionally drilled 14lb urethane ball. I'm going to try to practice a 1-step approach bowling thumbless to see if I can simplify things a bit. I can't move up much more than I already have. Maybe going to a 3-step approach can get my speed down to 15-16mph. But the problem isn't the speed. Speed is a GREAT thing to have and the thing most of lose as we age. I hate to give away an inherent advantage. But your assessment is spot on that a 17-19mph pro speed requires a pro level release...and I don't have that.

Most of my lessons, regardless of the instructor, have focused on my footwork, approach, timing, etc... I've been patiently waiting to start working on the release. But there are just so many little things to fix in the approach and timing...it's been a long road.

What I noticed in the "diary" was:
1) When my timing felt good AND I hit my target...I almost always struck.
2) The change from the back dots to the front dots lowered the speed, but not as much as I would have hoped. I still must be putting a LOT of power into the shot with my shoulders.
3) The lanes obviously started to transition in Game 3 because even the good shots were missing.

[Aslan]

And thanks all for the positive comments. I will take them into consideration regarding future decisions.

I've had slumps before, but recently it's been ridiculous. But like I've said, like it, love it, hate it...I'm here until the end of May whether I want to be or not...thats when my Monday league ends. So, you won't be rid of me until at the earliest then. Maybe I can even win another ball before I go. Hopefully it's NOTHING like the Asylum (insert hate emoticon)...but free is free. :o

[Davidjr113]

Aslan

Honestly, when I first started reading this board, I was turned off by some of the back & forth between you and Iceman as well as lot of other stuff, nothing to do with you. I am interesting in bowling stuff here and on bowling forums I follow.

I left the site but then eventually gave it another look on advice from Rob. Pleasantly surprised, and although I don't even look at some of your subjects, such as political ramblings, I have really come to respect and look forward to your bowling thoughts. Some of your other stuff is really quite interesting & entertaining too.

In interest of full disclosure, I am 25-30 years your senior, bowling only about as long as you though, about as addicted, overthinking, and anal as you, similar skill level, but not as interested in posting my thoughts as you are (age differential?)

I have seen many of your posts commenting on us Seniors, we are not all stick in the mud old farts. Some of us are still seeking to learn & improve as much as you are, this one wishes he had back the 25-30 years on me that you do, and I cannot see ever giving up, & I believe you will really regret it if you do.

Never thought I would post this, but this Senior would also really miss you if you left, your drive to improve helps inspire mine to do the same

Dave

[Aslan]

Hmmm. I've never really been inspirational. I kinda like that.

I agree. I consider quitting the game quite often, especially when stuck in my annual slump...but I really don't know what I'd do without bowling. A

Actually, I know EXACTLY what I'd do...either
A) Sit around, smoke pot, surf the internet, and play video games.
or
B) Start running/fitness again to try to lose some weight and suffer miserably through some diet phase and likely lose 20-30 pounds while feeling miserable.

And neither of those is really as fun as bowling. Bowling actually makes me leave the apartment. Without it, and given the recent dating successes (and lack there of), I'd probably just go to work, come home, go to bed, repeat. Bowling makes me "socialize" even when I don't want to. And once a month it makes me get up prior to 9AM on a weekend to go take a lesson.

So, like I said, I don't see much changing between now and May. I'm eventually gonna snap out of the slump...and even if I just sub this summer....I imagine living next door to a bowling alley and with my limited social life...I'll be calling the center each evening telling them there is a male sub. After that, who knows?

[jab5325]

Hmmm. I've never really been inspirational. I kinda like that.

I agree. I consider quitting the game quite often, especially when stuck in my annual slump...but I really don't know what I'd do without bowling. A

Actually, I know EXACTLY what I'd do...either
A) Sit around, smoke pot, surf the internet, and play video games.
or
B) Start running/fitness again to try to lose some weight and suffer miserably through some diet phase and likely lose 20-30 pounds while feeling miserable.

And neither of those is really as fun as bowling. Bowling actually makes me leave the apartment. Without it, and given the recent dating successes (and lack there of), I'd probably just go to work, come home, go to bed, repeat. Bowling makes me "socialize" even when I don't want to. And once a month it makes me get up prior to 9AM on a weekend to go take a lesson.

So, like I said, I don't see much changing between now and May. I'm eventually gonna snap out of the slump...and even if I just sub this summer....I imagine living next door to a bowling alley and with my limited social life...I'll be calling the center each evening telling them there is a male sub. After that, who knows?

Aslan,

I've lost 98 pounds since August and it's helped my bowling game tremendously. I've done this all while bowling 2 nights a week, and subbing one night a week most weeks.

I started out the season in a slump so bad that after only having 1 series below 575 since October, my average is still only 184.

The key is your mind. Only once you put your mind to something can you succeed whether it's dieting, bowling, etc.

Basically, in a round about way.......nut up and get through it. You're doing well--keep it that way.

[Amyers]

Ding Ding Ding!! Very good point. Average PBA speed at the pins is 18-19mph. Mine started out in the upper 17s. And you're right, I just don't have the release, axis tilt, nor rev rate to compensate.

But, in my defense, I DID change my approach after 4 frames to address this. It just didn't work.


Not sure a Widow is that much stronger, but I've felt the same thing on Mondays that most of the higher speed guys are throwing very strong equipment and I'm trying to do the same thing with weaker equipment.


True. Thats whats one of the most frustrating things. You'll see that I rarely missed my target...and if I did it was usually 1.5 boards to 3 boards at most. So many bowlers average in the 200s and talk about all this "miss room" that they have...I have ZERO miss room. One board isn't a weak strike...it's a washout. And one board left is a split.


True. And like you, when things are going WELL...I don't move as much. More than most bowlers because of my systematic approach...but more than one ball change and/or more than one 3:2 in any direction and it's a good indicator that I'm having a bad night and not finding my line.


1/2 on each lane. Normally I'd make a 2:1 right in both those instances, but I was trying to stay inside the oil a little bit to conserve energy downline. In practice I tried throwing up the 5-6 board but wasn't making it back to the pocket...even out there...and I had to think that was because the ball was just burnt up out there.

[QUOTE=Amyers;138260]5 was a strike but very high speed. 6 bad shot no adjustment. You missed left on shot 7 but still adjusted left not sure why you would do that and I think it's what caused your problems for shots 8,9, and 10. [QUOTE]
I figured the miss left wasn't that severe and given it went through the nose...I figured even if I hit my target on the next shot...the line was probably starting to transition....might as well stay ahead of it.


The D.E. is a ball DOWN, not up. I know that doesn't make sense given the RG values, but the Brunswick cover is far stronger than the Columbia cover, especially with a little polish added to the D.E. My system for moving is actually quite simple. Leave a 4, 9, or 4-9 and you move 1:1 left. Through the nose is 2:1 left. Brooklyn is 3:2 left.

The problem I've had with that system is that it assumes your arsenal is perfectly designed. If it's not, which most aren't, you could move left, lose your line, ball down, and miss right even more. So, if I move left and end up missing right, that tells me the other line was working, but it was time to ball down. The new line isn't working, so obviously, it won't work with a ball that breaks even later. So the 3:2 back right, was just to get back to the last line that worked...THEN ball down.

Sometime this weekend I'm gonna go bowl with my old conventionally drilled 14lb urethane ball. I'm going to try to practice a 1-step approach bowling thumbless to see if I can simplify things a bit. I can't move up much more than I already have. Maybe going to a 3-step approach can get my speed down to 15-16mph. But the problem isn't the speed. Speed is a GREAT thing to have and the thing most of lose as we age. I hate to give away an inherent advantage. But your assessment is spot on that a 17-19mph pro speed requires a pro level release...and I don't have that.

Most of my lessons, regardless of the instructor, have focused on my footwork, approach, timing, etc... I've been patiently waiting to start working on the release. But there are just so many little things to fix in the approach and timing...it's been a long road.

What I noticed in the "diary" was:
1) When my timing felt good AND I hit my target...I almost always struck.
2) The change from the back dots to the front dots lowered the speed, but not as much as I would have hoped. I still must be putting a LOT of power into the shot with my shoulders.
3) The lanes obviously started to transition in Game 3 because even the good shots were missing.

Speed can be an advantage but only if you are capable of generating enough revs to balance it. Otherwise your just making the game harder for yourself because it becomes you throwing the ball into the pocket instead of allowing the ball to read the pattern and find it's way there. My wife plays a suitcase style release that doesn't generate a lot of revs and is higher speed about 16 mph and really struggled we changed her over to a Nirvana and convinced her to drop the speed a little about 14.5 to 15 mph now and her average has increased by 25 pins over the last three months.

The Black Widow Red Legend Solid is Hammer's most aggressive ball in their current line up but I used it merely as an example. Brunswick Nirvana, Hammer BWRL Solid, Track Paradox, Storm Lock, or Radical Guru's would all be good choices. You've talked about the ball burning up with your current lineup and your current surface I seriously doubt your facing the ball burning up in league play even with your tendency to play outside. My guess would be that you face the ball not transitioning all the way through it's phases of skid, hook, and roll way more often than your burning up with your ball speed. From the look at the pins they can look similar as both will cause the ball to deflect more than it should. The right ball won't fix all of your problems but it could help some.

It maybe time to have a talk about the release with your coach. I understand that coaches like to fix everything else first but if it is effecting your enjoyment of the game it's time to work on it.

[J Anderson]

It maybe time to have a talk about the release with your coach. I understand that coaches like to fix everything else first but if it is effecting your enjoyment of the game it's time to work on it.

Having read Mark Baker's book, "The Gamechanger", I understand why many coaches sort of ignore the release at first. There are so many fundamentals that can affect the release that focusing on the other stuff often fixes the release.

[bubba809]

I've lost 98 pounds since August and it's helped my bowling game tremendously.


Funny, I've put on 20 Lbs and my bowling game is better than it's ever been.

[Aslan]

Having read Mark Baker's book, "The Gamechanger", I understand why many coaches sort of ignore the release at first. There are so many fundamentals that can affect the release that focusing on the other stuff often fixes the release.

I agree. The release is SO important to the ultimate ball motion, that we almost intuitively go right after that in terms of trying to improve. Kinda like when a ball "doesn't hook"...we start looking for a ball that will. Most bowlers work off the assumption that if you have a good ball and a good release....all you have to do is not fall over the foul line and you're golden.

But there are SO many things going on in those 4 steps...and if not done right....release will only be there to compensate, not enhance the shot.

For example:
Step 1: If your first step is too long or too short...you are setting the "pace" for your entire approach. Think of your first step like an Indy 500 pace car. If it's slow...the approach is slower. If it's long (fast), the other cars gotta try to catch up to it.

Step 2: Step 2 should be fluid...not pausing. And it's important that your posture is correct. I have a tendency to push the ball out and then let the ball carry my head forward and down. That puts my head in front of my feet...and your feet will always do whatever is necessary to catch up to your head.

Step3: Where is the ball during step 3? In Mark Baker's video/book you'll see that elite bowlers...the ball is at the top of the backswing or already on it's way down. If it's not...you're going to get to the line early and PULL the ball down.

Step 4: Is it balanced? Do you have proper spine tilt? Are you low enough at the line? Is your timing good? Do you stay down, or pop up?

Can you be a high level league bowler with a horrible approach? Yes. You can compensate for a bad approach and stay in time and release the ball well and will have success. But getting beyond a 190-205 average on a THS is going to require more work on all those approach elements.

Nothing gets me irritated more than seeing a 75-year old guy throw a 267 game yet he fell off of every shot, had a quirky approach, etc... I think to myself, "Wait. So I'm spending $150/month on lessons to learn NOT to do what that guy does...yet he rolled a 267 and I rolled a 167!??" But, to echo my coach, that guy has 35 years on me...and probably over 40 years more of bowling experience. He bowls in one house...he rarely enters tournaments...and his ability to adjust to changes are limited. He's definitely better than me NOW...but probably wasn't near as good as I am after his first 3 years of bowling. So, you just gotta avert your eyes...and try not to get irritated.

[Davidjr113]

Damn Aslan, you are on us Seniors again!

[Tony]

Nothing gets me irritated more than seeing a 75-year old guy throw a 267 game yet he fell off of every shot, had a quirky approach, etc... I think to myself, "Wait. So I'm spending $150/month on lessons to learn NOT to do what that guy does...yet he rolled a 267 and I rolled a 167!??" But, to echo my coach, that guy has 35 years on me...and probably over 40 years more of bowling experience. He bowls in one house...he rarely enters tournaments...and his ability to adjust to changes are limited. He's definitely better than me NOW...but probably wasn't near as good as I am after his first 3 years of bowling. So, you just gotta avert your eyes...and try not to get irritated.

Instead of running him down because he doesn't "bowl correctly" just ignore those other people and work on your game or watch some of those people and see if you can learn from them, see if you can see how they are managing to shoot 100 pins higher than you when they are a "sub-par" bowler according to your standards.
Keep in mind there are golfers, quarterbacks, hitters and pitchers that have has great success with unconventional swings, or arm motion, you don't have to emulate them but you still might be able to learn something about some part of the game from them.
Why bother getting irritated by someone who is better than you, learn how to compete with him. Did you ever consider that doing everything exactly by the book does not knock down pins in itself, but knowing your own strengths and weaknesses and compensating for them could allow you to become a better bowler.
And just to clarify if he's that good at 70 something think how great he was when he was 40 or 50, probably a lot better than he is now, age has a way of slowing you down....

[RobLV1]

Dude, I have a friend who is in his sixties, takes somewhere between seven and ten steps as he runs to the line, drops the ball three feet in front of the foul line, and falls off every single shot. That's the key: he does it on every single shot. Add to this the fact that he has no understanding of bowling balls, or the differences between lanes, and there you have it. One thing that he does is repeat. One thing that he doesn't do is think. Oh, by the way, he averages over 220 in several different houses!

[jab5325]

Dude, I have a friend who is in his sixties, takes somewhere between seven and ten steps as he runs to the line, drops the ball three feet in front of the foul line, and falls off every single shot. That's the key: he does it on every single shot. Add to this the fact that he has no understanding of bowling balls, or the differences between lanes, and there you have it. One thing that he does is repeat. One thing that he doesn't do is think. Oh, by the way, he averages over 220 in several different houses!

Sounds interesting! Would love to see a video of that.

There's a guy in my house in his 60s, slides on the wrong foot, never changes balls and hardly moves.....yet averages between 200-210 for the season and has multiple 300s/700s.

[Amyers]

I agree. The release is SO important to the ultimate ball motion, that we almost intuitively go right after that in terms of trying to improve. Kinda like when a ball "doesn't hook"...we start looking for a ball that will. Most bowlers work off the assumption that if you have a good ball and a good release....all you have to do is not fall over the foul line and you're golden.

But there are SO many things going on in those 4 steps...and if not done right....release will only be there to compensate, not enhance the shot.

For example:
Step 1: If your first step is too long or too short...you are setting the "pace" for your entire approach. Think of your first step like an Indy 500 pace car. If it's slow...the approach is slower. If it's long (fast), the other cars gotta try to catch up to it.

Step 2: Step 2 should be fluid...not pausing. And it's important that your posture is correct. I have a tendency to push the ball out and then let the ball carry my head forward and down. That puts my head in front of my feet...and your feet will always do whatever is necessary to catch up to your head.

Step3: Where is the ball during step 3? In Mark Baker's video/book you'll see that elite bowlers...the ball is at the top of the backswing or already on it's way down. If it's not...you're going to get to the line early and PULL the ball down.

Step 4: Is it balanced? Do you have proper spine tilt? Are you low enough at the line? Is your timing good? Do you stay down, or pop up?

Can you be a high level league bowler with a horrible approach? Yes. You can compensate for a bad approach and stay in time and release the ball well and will have success. But getting beyond a 190-205 average on a THS is going to require more work on all those approach elements.

Nothing gets me irritated more than seeing a 75-year old guy throw a 267 game yet he fell off of every shot, had a quirky approach, etc... I think to myself, "Wait. So I'm spending $150/month on lessons to learn NOT to do what that guy does...yet he rolled a 267 and I rolled a 167!??" But, to echo my coach, that guy has 35 years on me...and probably over 40 years more of bowling experience. He bowls in one house...he rarely enters tournaments...and his ability to adjust to changes are limited. He's definitely better than me NOW...but probably wasn't near as good as I am after his first 3 years of bowling. So, you just gotta avert your eyes...and try not to get irritated.

Man you summed your problem up in a couple of paragraphs. Your thinking about too much crap as we tell you all the time. I know you have issues with that first step all of us long timers have seen it and you needed more help with your approach than the average decent bowler but this is overkill. as far as speed goes you only have to worry about starting the ball on time your body will naturally adjust your swing to match your foot speed.

I used to spend a lot of time worrying about where my balance arm should be (still occasionally go down that road) until I finally figured out I bowl better when I don't know where it is. Do I know where it should be? Yes but if I'm thinking about that it's distracting me from other things that are more important. I may need to pin it down at some point in my progression I know I rarely use it as I'm supposed to but I also know if I'm thinking about it my scores are going down the tubes.

Worry about getting the ball started on time, taking normal steps, doing whatever it is you do to get your hand in proper position to release the ball, and hitting your mark. Once you get to a 220+ average then start worrying about spine tilt and the other minutia. Just throw the D### ball.

[Tony]

Man you summed your problem up in a couple of paragraphs. Your thinking about too much crap as we tell you all the time. I know you have issues with that first step all of us long timers have seen it and you needed more help with your approach than the average decent bowler but this is overkill. as far as speed goes you only have to worry about starting the ball on time your body will naturally adjust your swing to match your foot speed.

Worry about getting the ball started on time, taking normal steps, doing whatever it is you do to get your hand in proper position to release the ball, and hitting your mark. Once you get to a 220+ average then start worrying about spine tilt and the other minutia. Just throw the D### ball.

Exactly, instead of worrying about every little thing about the approach,release, ball , and on and on, just make the shots, and make an effort to find your rhythm. Only worry about a couple things that you know you have a tendency to slip up on, for me it's taking a controlled first step, getting my arm out for balance and following through projecting down the lane. These things will change week to week among a dozen or so different area's where you're not totally consistent on all the time.
You don't have to be perfect in all aspects of the game to be a pretty good bowler, having a good consistent and relaxed flow on the approach is more important and will bring better results than having a tense but more technically perfect motion. Your mind can't focus on every tiny tidbit of information about the approach that you've ever read about, on every shot .... don't try it!

[Aslan]

Damn Aslan, you are on us Seniors again!
Then stop deserving it.


Dude,
By using that word are you trying to nudge your way onto the current Scotch Doubles Championship Team from the Aslan vs. Iceman Challenge; known far and wide as the greatest bowling tournament that ever was or shall be?? I don't blame ya. The Iceman/Mudpuppy team was embarrassingly bad.



Sounds interesting! Would love to see a video of that.

There's a guy in my house in his 60s, slides on the wrong foot, never changes balls and hardly moves.....yet averages between 200-210 for the season and has multiple 300s/700s.


I have a friend who is in his sixties, takes somewhere between seven and ten steps as he runs to the line, drops the ball three feet in front of the foul line, and falls off every single shot. That's the key: he does it on every single shot. Add to this the fact that he has no understanding of bowling balls, or the differences between lanes, and there you have it. One thing that he does is repeat. One thing that he doesn't do is think. Oh, by the way, he averages over 220 in several different houses!
Okay....then why in the WORLD isn't he bowling the PBA50!?? I want to see that disasterous approach perform at the highest level. Why don't we see it?

It's like I tell VDub...if you average 226...what else do you have to prove in a weekly handicap league? Are you some sandbagger that spends an entire season pretending to be a 187 bowler so you cash at sweeps once a year?? How pathetic is that?

But that leads me to my old solution that everyone hates...so I won't even bother mentioning it. But once you hit a milestone...time to graduate. You can't stay in 5th grade forever...no matter how much you may want to. I'd be the best 7th grade basketball player and 6th grade football player ever known to man....because I'm 3-4x as big as grade schoolers. It's not rocket science. You average 190? You've graduated. Welcome to scratch leagues. If ya get to 220, you graduate again...welcome to sports patterns. Is that gonna make people sad and cry like babies because they can't outscore everyone in some Thursday beer league doing the one thing in their life that makes em feel special? Yup. Too bad. You don't like it, learn to bowl left handed and reset your average.

New bowlingboards.com rule...if you average 220 or higher and are still bowling no-tap or handicap leagues...you have to have an avatar of a yellow chicken so we can identify you. Do I hear a second?


And just to clarify if he's that good at 70 something think how great he was when he was 40 or 50, probably a lot better than he is now, age has a way of slowing you down....

By that logic, the old 220 average bowler used to average 600 per game when he was young. ????? :confused: No...he was younger and dumber and averaged in the 160s...but slowly got better over time and thank the Lord his health has held up. As long as you never push your way through to the next level...you can be the "gym class All-American".

What is a "Gym Class All-American"? Well, remember in school how there were those 1-3 kids that were really good at kickball and dodgeball and softball....but they NEVER joined the school's team or played organized sports? In gym class...that was their time to shine. It was "safe", "easier". No pressure. Just dodge the chicks smoking cigarettes who are "too cool" for kickball...smile at the gym teacher...and try to act modest when you get picked first. No need for dedication or hard work or practice.

Practice!!? In bowling!!? I know right? How foreign is THAT concept? I suppose these older fellas we're talking about with 220 averages also never practice right? And why take lessons? You average 220. The only thing that is going to stop you is your health failing.

So is that what we advocate? In terms of the sport of bowling...does this interactive and knowledgeable bowling site of (a million? 1000? 100? Several?...how many users do we have?) avid bowlers...do WE advocate a sport of akward approaching 70 year olds that don't practice, know nothing about bowling balls, and never challenge themselves at the next level? Is that the "dream" now? The dream used to be the PBA. Now it seems like a person would rather have a podcast or something where they can TALK about bowling than actually bowl.

Maybe THATs the TICKET!!

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-6JGc9TlSWos/UWLZRSUAqXI/AAAAAAAAJNw/ldgZ0PyWS_M/s1600/LOVITZ.jpg

After all the searching...I've found the key to bowling success in 2016!! Don't Care. Just recognize that if you're LUCKY...and make it to 75...even with my horrible approach and goofy first step and tendency to pull up on my shot and (insert numerous areas that need improvement)....if I can just consistently do those horrible things....I TOO...can someday....SOMEday...be a 220 average bowler that fails to challenge myself. Dreamers can dream right?

Baa Humbug!!
http://images.sodahead.com/polls/003379543/5033573354_bahhumbug_answer_2_xlarge.jpeg

And I'm coming to Vegas in February Rob...I want to know who this ole timer is so I can come to league night and boo him.

[Perrin]

I feel your pain. In this area we have several guys who bowl 1-2 times a week at most, never move their feet or mark, and don't throw a ball outside of league but because their style matches up to the new oil they are averaging near as high as I do. But ohhh boy the moaning and whining on a night where 'their' shot isn't working.. hoooo boy.


Nothing more frustrating than getting called a sandbagger because I have a good night after struggling at the beginning of the year.

"you throw the ball too well to have an average that low...." Thanks jerk I throw the ball like this now cause I bowl in 3 leagues, have started doing wrist and forearm strengthening, and practice a couple times a month.

[AlexNC]

i like to think that in working on my game I am playing the "long game". Short return on my work now - as it takes time to develop consistency - but greater return in the long run.

[Aslan]

Do you wanna know what really, really, really bugs me about bowling??

WARNING! This is going to be "rant"...so if you keep reading and then get annoyed about the lengthy rant...that's on you. Also, standard disclaimer that my opinions most likely do not represent the site, bowlingball.com, or the general public at large.

http://static.planetminecraft.com/files/resource_media/screenshot/1417/rant_marketing_lrg.jpg

MOST sports....reward practice.
MOST sports...reward knowledge.
MOST sports...reward hard work.
MOST sports...PENALIZE bad technique/form.

Bowling rewards LONGEVITY. It's not about how good you are...it's how long your body can hold up. Ask RobM or any other number of players. My grandfather loved bowling as much as anything in his life...but finally his body just couldn't do it anymore. Arthritis in the wrist, Bursitis in the shoulder...it was time to stop. Rob is the "Aslan vs. Iceman Challenge" Champion (as I predicted beforehand). But 10 years from now if I have another tournament...I doubt Rob's body will allow him to participate. Even Iceman by then may be struggling. The guy "James" I used to bowl with on Wednesdays...can't throw over 10mph...he has all the will to succeed and love for the sport...but his body just isn't there.

Bowling in this way...is the OPPOSITE of MOST SPORTS. Bowling rewards TIME. The longer you do it, the better you get at it. Like making fly fishing lures or maybe gardening...or putting up a tent or camper. How many older bowlers know about changeable thumb inserts? How long have those been around? 40 years? How many older bowlers could name every major brand of bowling ball. Here's an even harder one...how many could explain Core, RG, Differntial, and cover stocks? This sport doesn't award knowledge...it awards wisdom. And wisdom cannot be bought and cannot be earned...it's just a matter of time.

And bowling doesn't penalize bad technique. Of matter of fact, it actually rewards bowlers that have non-traditional forms. 2-handers, thumbless, palm bowlers....these guys can use weak balls, open up the lane completely, maximize their angle of entry...and it doesn't matter if they miss 6-7 boards...the ball will come back. Bowling doesn't penalize bad technique until you get to a level where you're playing on a USBC or sport pattern. And here's the rub...MOST bowlers avoid those situations like the PLAGUE. That sport shot league I tried for a little over a season...only has 7 teams. Over 4 seasons in my old home center, with all the talented bowlers there...it took 3-4 seasons just for enough guys (3) to finally ask me about the sport shot league. Bowlers don't want "hard". They don't want to be "challenged"...they don't want to be "exposed".

So, given the rant above, ask yourself this. Imagine you meet a youngster at the bowling center and he (or her) is watching the league bowlers. If that kid asks you what he should do so that someday he'll be a great bowler...I would instinctively say:

1) Get a ball the is the proper weight and fit for your hand.
2) Learn the proper form, proper balance, etc..
3) Work on accuracy and being able to hit smaller and smaller targets.
4) Play against good bowlers and watch them and learn from them.
5) Practice. At least 250-500 games per year.
6) Have goals that you want to achieve. Not just a higher average or a 300-game. But specific metrics you want to and need to improve to transition to the next level.
7) Get coaching. Proper form can be learned from a book. But books have a tendency of getting outdated. Coaches can see things that you as the bowler often can't.
8) Concentrate on hitting the pocket. Then concentrate on spares. Then concentrate on carry. Not in the reverse order.

Those 8 things....seem reasonable. Right? I mean, would that not be a great starting point for a youngster?

But...it's ALL A LIE. :(

https://yadadarcyyada.files.wordpress.com/2014/12/1christmas96.gif?w=381&h=286

It's a big FAT LIE.

Instead, I should change the advice to:

1) Forget fit. Fit only matters if you're using your thumb. Never use your thumb. The goal is to spin the ball as crazy high rpm as possible.
2) Proper form is for old timers. Most of the better league bowlers have horrible form...so chase the numbers not the technique. Just do whatever you do and try to do it in a repeatable way.
3) Accuracy is over-rated. If you're spinning the ball enough...you have at least 9 boards to the right you can miss and still carry.
4) There is no "right way" to bowl. But there is a "right way" to sandbag. You wanna make money in bowling, learn how to sandbag.
5) Never, ever practice. All it will do is wear you out prematurely. Look around at the best bowlers in your league. How many regularly practice? Enuff said.
6) Goals are for suckers. Your goal should be to get drunk, get la-hay-ed, and try to roll a 300-game. Nothing else matters. Until sweeps when you can win actual cash...that's when you start actually "trying".
7) Coaching is a waste of money. You're learn everything that is wrong with your game...fix it, then realize most of the guys beating you in sidepots and brackets have WAY worse form than you did when you first started. The difference is they consistently are the same and YOU are not.
8) Carry matters. Nothing else does. If you lose a match because you didn't make enough spares, that just means you didn't strike enough.

[AlexNC]

http://e.lvme.me/kwovcbl.jpg

[NewToBowling]

I do agree that form or technique is secondary. Consistency is the key. As long as you consistently hit the pocket but throw it ugly as heck it really doesn't matter. Of course there are certain ways to go about it to improve consistency but overall if you're comfortable throwing it a certain way I would be the last person to tell you to stop. Form isn't as important as in other sports.

Volleyball is my other sport and I can easily tell someone isn't a "real" volleyball player when I see them play on TV or a movie as they just don't have the form. There is a certain way you bump, serve, or spike that looks odd when someone tries to emulate it. And you can't really get any better if you don't have the fundamentals down.

In bowling you can cheat a bit due to the walled up house shots and hypersonic super-powered bowling balls

[Amyers]

Having proper form and technique can be an aid in having good accuracy and higher rev rates but it's not mandatory. You can find many Pro bowlers who have improper form or technique in certain areas. Does that mean you should abandon trying for proper form? No but you can strive for proper form to the point you are no longer loose and fluid. Many of these form techniques have to be mastered to the point of being muscle memory you can't be thinking about them.

There is some merit to what your saying about high power/high rev bowlers being able to just blow it up and it doesn't really matter where they hit but most of the guys I know who have mastered that put a lot of hours and years in to do it. They didn't just pick up a ball and start throwing it like that.

You know as well as I do what most scratch bowlers think of handicap tournaments. If you want to be a bagger go ahead no ones stopping you but I personally want more from bowling than winning some third rate tournament that no one cares about.

Coaching is good. It will help speed up development but it's not a panacea. It still takes time and experience to become an above average bowler. I'm not sure why you think this game should be easy. I took a long break form bowling (20 years) but I've still almost bowled more years than I haven't and we're pretty close average wise. Seems to me your not doing too bad for someone who's still a newbie. If there was video of me bowling in my third year of junior league my guess would be your form looks better than mine did then (video camera's weren't mainstream then).

I don't know do I know a few guys who pick up a ball and average in the low 200's in a year or so? Yeah but most of them if you get them out of that one house or change the conditions slightly they fall apart. Pretty much all of the 210+ average guys here bowl multiple leagues and do practice maybe not as much as I do but they do practice. A lot of those guys with the funky deliveries that still average high have spent years developing it too. One of the guys I bowl with has some birth defects and bowls wrong footed (averages about 220) completely smooth but has a hop step at the end to switch feet where both feet are actually of the floor. I asked him about it he bowled 25-50 games a day 3 days a week for almost 2 years to develop his game. I asked him why he was willing to put that much money and work into bowling. His response was what other sport can a short black guy who walks with a limp be a high level competitor at?

[fortheloveofbowling]

What you have done is gained 10-15 years worth of potential experience in 3 years. But, as a lot of league bowlers do you have not allowed yourself to understand and learn the game. Unlike you most league bowlers really don't have a great interest in getting to a higher level of competition. With all of your pre conceived notions in all areas of the game and constant wonderment as to why they notions don't play out it has hindered your ability to observe what is in front of your face.

[Blacksox1]

http://e.lvme.me/kwovcbl.jpg


AlexNC wins the internet weekly prize with this! Keep up the good work.

[Aslan]

His response was what other sport can a short black guy who walks with a limp be a high level competitor at?

That is both the most inspiring message...and most depressing statement about bowling I have ever heard.

[Tony]

Quote Originally Posted by Tony
And just to clarify if he's that good at 70 something think how great he was when he was 40 or 50, probably a lot better than he is now, age has a way of slowing you down....

ASLAN
By that logic, the old 220 average bowler used to average 600 per game when he was young. ????? No...he was younger and dumber and averaged in the 160s...but slowly got better over time and thank the Lord his health has held up.

TONY
You couldn't be further from the truth, are you sure you read what I wrote correctly? This isn't conjecture on my part, I bowl with a number of guys whom I've seen progress through the years and inevitably in the late sixties and early 70 their games decline meaning that they indeed were even better bowlers when they were younger.

Just because you haven't attained the average you seem to think you deserve after bowling for a few years you don't have to disrespect the accomplishments of others.
Lets get another thing straight not all other sports do not recognize knowledge of the game !
Have you ever watched football, baseball or basketball ? If you had you would have noticed that some of those guys can barely spell their name, undoubtedly there are thousands if not millions of people that know the rules, equipment, correct stance, form , strategy, or statistics of the game better than some of these players. Does that translate into them being able to hit a 3 pointer, catch a pass from an NFL quarterback, hit a home run or run a 4.4 -40 ? Heck NO!
If you think knowledge of the sport alone makes anyone a great player, you are sadly mistaken! Will it make you a better player, maybe , maybe not. It certainly won't make a marginal player into a superstar.

Think about what you're saying, deciding bowlers that are better than you don't deserve to be better because you know more about the game (in your opinion) is incredibly condescending and foolish at the same time.

Not that you're the only person like that, a couple of days ago I heard a comment about a talented bowler that I would have sworn you could have said.
A guy I bowl with has a grandson that just set the "all-time high average" high school bowling record with a 252 average

We were taking about it and one guy says " it's no wonder his grandpa owns a bowling alley and his dad manages it"
Seriously, you think the kid is an outstanding bowler only because his grandfather and father are in the bowling industry.

http://www.ushsbf.org/

Grow up and stop telling other people that they don't deserve what they have accomplished, just because you don't think they should be that good going about the way they are doing it.

I'm sure some of those guys who don't know what they are doing get great satisfaction kicking your butt. In fact I know it, I used to play golf with my Father on a local 9 hole course (3300 yard par 37) before he passed away, I can recall several times when we were paired up with hotshot golfers who had a big swing and a big head. My dad who was in his 80's would tell them before the first shot. I apologize if I slow you down, I'm an old man who walks a little slowly and plays for fun. They would always let him tee off first and he would hit the ball right down the middle of the fairway.
Around here the custom is low score on the hole tee's off first on the next hole. Little did they know this little old guy shot par golf and they sometimes wouldn't get a chance to tee off first all day, and to add insult they would finish a few strokes behind him ! Don't think for one second he didn't enjoy it, often on the last hole he would give them advice on the virtue of taking the ball on the shortest most direct route to the hole. More than once he feigned surprise when he asked them " you know lowest score wins, right ?" Do you know when he started playing golf, when he got clubs for his retirement at 65, did he know equipment or theory of golf ball technology or have a single golf lesson? NO he figured it out and played his way. I'm sure some of the big swing , big head guys he beat said that little old man doesn't even know how to golf properly.....maybe not but he beat you, so give him a little respect, he EARNED it. You have to earn it too!

[Jessiewoodard57]

Aslan I have a horrible average and have a whole bunch of issues that a standard bowler would not have since I bowl from a wheel chair. Try lining a powerchair at the same board that produced your best line to the pocket and resulted in your last strike. So not easy. I have spent way too much on this and that bowling ball trying to improve my game. In the end I have decided the only thing that really matters is "Am I having fun" I could sit home get to be a bitter old man and feel sorry for myself but I get to get out and encourage the younger crowd to bowl and enjoy themselves. I have rolled a 231 and man it felt good to have a bunch of people congratulate me on a great game. I'm out in a crowd of really nice people making friends and enjoying life. I almost did not join a league for embarrassment of being a disabled horrible bowler but I have met some really good people that have become fast friends so it was well worth it. Do I have bad days when I want to roll my bag out to the dumpster and toss it YUP but I have a whole lot more of the good days. Hang in there my friend this to shall pass.

[Aslan]

This isn't conjecture on my part, I bowl with a number of guys whom I've seen progress through the years and inevitably in the late sixties and early 70 their games decline meaning that they indeed were even better bowlers when they were younger.
Your logic is a fallacy. You claim that your opinion is valid because you know a number of guys that support your belief. I know a great number that provide evidence to the contrary. Which of us is correct? You and your examples or me and mine.

The only way your conclusion is true, is if you factor in age and how in general our bodies limit us at some point. But that wasn't the argument you were making (I don't think). So, yes...an older bowler probably had a body that was in better shape in their youth and therefore...despite any knowledge of the game...they were technically better before than now.


Just because you haven't attained the average you seem to think you deserve after bowling for a few years you don't have to disrespect the accomplishments of others.
Only if the accomplishments are earned.

Maybe I'm not making my point. It's Monday morning, what can I say. But think about it this way. Lets say "Fred Flinstone" bowls 10,000 games. Never takes a lesson. Never learns about bowling balls. Still throws the same rock he got out of the quarry 20 years ago. One magical evening...he throws a perfect game. Did he "earn" it? Or was he just playing the numbers? If you do something 10,000 times...eventually even a broken clock is right. Am I demeaning Fred by not respecting his "accomplishment"? Is a person deserving of accolades for simply living long enough that statistically they finally strike gold?


Lets get another thing straight not all other sports do not recognize knowledge of the game !
Have you ever watched football, baseball or basketball ? If you had you would have noticed that some of those guys can barely spell their name,
You're confusing intelligence with knowledge. Most professional athletes are not Cambridge educated scholars. But there's a difference between those sports and bowling. The sport of bowling and equipment involved as evolved greatly. I many ways, and this has been argued a great deal back and forth, there is some serious concern that the sport has been harmed by such things. For example, it still isn't an Olympic sport. One (of many) reasons often cited is there is too much influence on bowler's performance related to non-performance things such as ball technology, wrist braces, gloves, surfacing, etc... When baseball adds pine tar to the bat or ball, adds cork to the bats, or makes the balls easier to hit home runs...its often viewed negatively and players are penalized. In bowling...not only can you have a wide variety of equipment...but you can also change outcomes with pin weights or lane conditions. Perfectly legal. We went from wiping oil and dirt off our bowling balls to people soaking their bowling balls (which was made illegal), back to wiping, then to sanding between shots (which is technically illegal), back to wiping again.

The reason I bring that up is....if your sport depends a great deal on technology....you MUST learn about that technology to be successful. Nascar drivers aren't just go kart drivers that get asked to sit in a car in a Nascar race. You have to have a pretty darn good knowledge of cars to drive in that environment. Some know more technical stuff than others...but there's no old guy sitting in Car #14 that doesn't understand what "fuel injected" means.


If you think knowledge of the sport alone makes anyone a great player, you are sadly mistaken! Will it make you a better player, maybe , maybe not. It certainly won't make a marginal player into a superstar.
Ahhhh! Finally!! We're back to "The Gift"!!! Iceman would be proud. I can't disagree with ya Tony. And neither would Iceman. Either you have the "Gift" or you don't. Iceman was a firm believer that lessons were a foolish waste of resources and if you can't step on those lanes and use your god gifted physical talents to succeed...pick a different activity. Iceman would endorse you 100%!!

Funny Story: RobM was nice enough to give (free) both me and Iceman a lesson the day after "The Aslan vs. Iceman Challenge". Long story short, Rob almost killed him. Rob was simply trying to help Iceman with his footwork....but this "knowledge" was so foreign to Iceman and his "gifted approach"...that Iceman got his feet tangled up and fell down. It would have been funny...but at Iceman's age....falls can be rather serious...so I didn't laugh until I knew he was okay. Knowledge and coaching....they're like kryptonite to The Gift!!! ;)


Think about what you're saying, deciding bowlers that are better than you don't deserve to be better because you know more about the game (in your opinion) is incredibly condescending and foolish at the same time.
I'll compromise and agree on the condescending, but I can't agree on foolish. I believe it just as condescending and foolish for people to get excited that they can average 200+ on easy conditions in one house when they can't even explain the basics regarding bowling ball motion, specs, etc...


Not that you're the only person like that, a couple of days ago I heard a comment about a talented bowler that I would have sworn you could have said.
A guy I bowl with has a grandson that just set the "all-time high average" high school bowling record with a 252 average

We were taking about it and one guy says " it's no wonder his grandpa owns a bowling alley and his dad manages it"
Seriously, you think the kid is an outstanding bowler only because his grandfather and father are in the bowling industry.
Is PDW a great bowler because his father was? Is Kyle Troup a better bowler because his father was? I'm gonna say yes. Does that mean had their fathers not been in the PBA they'd be horrible?? Of course not. But the combination of genetics and access to bowling at a young age are certainly factors to consider.


Grow up and stop telling other people that they don't deserve what they have accomplished, just because you don't think they should be that good going about the way they are doing it.
Most people could care less my opinion of their bowling success. I've never told anyone they don't "deserve" something...I just think that one of the many reasons bowling is in the decline is the sport element is fading and it's now more of a "hobby" or "activity" than a sport. Bowling went from being like boxing or tennis...to something like poker.


I'm sure some of those guys who don't know what they are doing get great satisfaction kicking your butt.
Given. But fortunately they won't leave their home centers to do it. Ask MWhite how it went when he left the safe confines of Arlington Lanes to bowl against me on wood lanes. Am I a better bowler than MWhite....NOPE. But if I can erase his home field advantage...I at least got a shot. There's nobody on this site; with the exception of VDubtx and the pro bowlers/staffers that stop in once or twice a month to post a ball reaction commercial...that I can't beat over 3 games in a neutral house.

I don't know if you were here back when we were doing the Virtual Bowling Tour (VBT) but it was the same thing there. It was a real cool idea and cool concept...but it almost didn't even get off the ground because once people realized they'd have to bowl somewhere other than one of their home centers....suddenly the whine-fest began!! "That center is too far away!" "That center is in a bad neighborhood!" "That center is old!" That center is junky or poorly managed!" "Why can't we just use our league scores!?" Whine...whine...whine...which can all be summed up as, "If you change where I bowl....I can't bowl." And who were in the finals you ask?

MWhite vs. VDubtx

Arguably the two best bowlers on the site. So, the cream DID rise to the top...as it should. But wow...you ask a 190+ average bowler to bowl at another house...and you'd think you're asking them to fly a spaceship to the moon.

However you wanna characterize my opinion, the simple truth of the matter (as I see it) is the sport is going to remain in decline so long as the bowlers at the highest levels of league play...are rewarded not for their skill set, knowledge, and practice and instead are rewarded simply for longevity.

I bowled against 4 seniors yesterday afternoon in a tournament. There was a friendly guy there...I really wanted to help him...because he was really, really struggling on the dry conditions. But I already learned that lesson and I just kept my mouth shut. He's not going to listen to me anyways. Just like my former teammate. He'll just keep repeating "These lanes are so dry...even my plastic ball is hooking left of the headpin!"

It's the common problem husbands and wives have because men and women are just wired differently. A woman starts complaining and droning on about all kinds of problems....and as men our initial response is to try and help them fix their problem. That is our task in life...our task at work...it's how we're wired. But women (like old men who bowl) don't WANT you to give them the solution or offer them advice. They just want you to listen to their problem, nod in a manner that makes you at least appear to be empathetic, then move on.

Don't get your panties too much in a bunch Tony...my opinion means a LOT less than people sometimes make it seem.

[Tony]

Don't get your panties too much in a bunch Tony...my opinion means a LOT less than people sometimes make it seem.

Just offering a counterpoint to encourage you to reflect on the comments you've made that seem to indicate that your average should be better than it is, the simple answer is that you're responsible for the average you hold, nobody else.

For the record I don't value your opinion as much as you think I might. I'm pretty sure that any perceived value you think your opinion has to me, is mostly in your own head.


Allowing the fact that "subpar" bowlers are better than you to have a detrimental effect on your attitude or game is one of the things holding you back. Stop letting them influence your attitude, gauge your progress on improving your own game and beating those players that are a little better than you.

As for the boast you can beat everyone here but Vdub and a few pro's ...uncontrolled laughter, you have no idea how well some of these guys shoot at houses outside of their own, I seriously doubt you can even beat me much less some of the higher average bowlers.

[shadd]

...There's nobody on this site; with the exception of VDubtx and the pro bowlers/staffers that stop in once or twice a month to post a ball reaction commercial...that I can't beat over 3 games in a neutral house...

Is this this real life? This can't be real life right?!?!

I look at quite a few score threads and there are A LOT of guys stringing together multiple 6 and even 700 series at different houses, saying something like that takes a fair amount of douche-baggery...just sayin'.

It's douchey things like this that are the exact opposite of endearing.

Hopefully you can break out of your slump so you can beat everyone on the site in the neutral site imaginary matches, good luck!

[Aslan]

Apparently it's time for a new Challenge Event.

Should we call it "2nd Annual Aslan vs. Iceman Challenge" for history sake? Or should we rename it the "Aslan vs. Tony Challenge"?

Since Iceman is out, we can probably make it a handicap tournament and don't have to do it in Missouri. So that's good.

But will Rob return as the defending Champion? Mudpuppy most likely was murdered on the streets of Detroit and MWhite on the streets of San Bernadino...so those spots are probably open.

So, the first question is...will Rob defend his title? And as the defending Champion, he would choose the location. Probably Vegas somewhere....which is driveable for me. But where is Tony from? And it looks like shadd wants in on the action. What about Rob's friend Chuck? I think that's the same dude that looks like that actor from "Once Upon a Time"...erie in how alike they look...like a doppleganger.

So should I start a thread trying to recruit for this thing? Rob? Tony? Shadd?

See, while I certainly agree with some of the criticisms...the fact of the matter is I'm the only one on this site that takes all challengers. I'm like Action Jackson. I'll enter the WSOB...I'll make bets with the pros....and like Action Jackson I will likely lose all of those things. But we already DID THIS...I already threw out the VBT challenge...only to get scarce interest and then everyone eventually just stopped doing it. Bowling outside their comfort zones...was just a bit too much of a challenge I guess. I gladly entered and competed and promoted the Aslan vs Iceman Challenge in Vegas (also known as the greatest bowling event in the history of the universe). I faced 4 bowlers...all who averaged around 200-220...except me and Rob...and for Rob it was homefield advantage...and we bowled scratch.

So, I'd rather take all challengers, put myself out there, and risk losing or a reality check or a schooling....but at least I'm not afraid. I don't care how good you claim most bowlers are on this site...if they're too afraid to bowl outside their center and can barely bring themselves to even accept verbal challenges or virtual matches...then I win. Sure, you can sit at home and tell yourself, "Well...he's arrogant...he could never beat me. I'm awesome. What a joke." Drink your Swiss Miss, watch some re-runs on TV...duck me however makes you feel most fulfilled. But don't confuse arrogance with courage. There's those that DO...and those that make fun of those that do.

Lemme know....and we'll get the event set up. Just don't forget the crying towel at home...nobody wants to wipe tears with a dirty sock or a bowling towel with ball oil all over it.

[shadd]

I'm in the DC area with not a lot of time (my wife works ~100 hours a week, so I'm bordering on single dad status for 2 little girls)...I really can't justify a bowling-related vacation, unfortunately.

If anything does get scheduled, I will do my best to make it. Hell, I'm trying to find an ABT event to bowl in and a sport league to join...definitely won't shy away from this!

[Amyers]

Anytime your in the WV area or even this general side of the country

[Tony]

I am in Northern Illinois, I would love to go to Vegas (and bowl ?)...just doesn't seem to go together. While it sounds fun, it's probably a little too far for me. I would probably have been better off if it was in Podunk (Iceman) Missouri, although bowling on the wood lanes he spoke of sounds less than appealing.
Distance might be a limitation of this plan, but I would be interested if it was close enough and I could arrange it.

[bubba809]

Anytime your in the WV area or even this general side of the country


Ditto

[fortheloveofbowling]

Ditto

Add me to the list. I could probably afford to lose 50/game and 100/set to THE LION.

[fortheloveofbowling]

Just offering a counterpoint to encourage you to reflect on the comments you've made that seem to indicate that your average should be better than it is, the simple answer is that you're responsible for the average you hold, nobody else.

For the record I don't value your opinion as much as you think I might. I'm pretty sure that any perceived value you think your opinion has to me, is mostly in your own head.


Allowing the fact that "subpar" bowlers are better than you to have a detrimental effect on your attitude or game is one of the things holding you back. Stop letting them influence your attitude, gauge your progress on improving your own game and beating those players that are a little better than you.

As for the boast you can beat everyone here but Vdub and a few pro's ...uncontrolled laughter, you have no idea how well some of these guys shoot at houses outside of their own, I seriously doubt you can even beat me much less some of the higher average bowlers.

Really good post here and previously Tony. All good points and the rebuttal to your post was non informed dribble.

[NewToBowling]

I'd like to join in on the fun but Denver is still quite a drive

[Aslan]

Really good post here and previously Tony. All good points and the rebuttal to your post was non informed dribble.

Wait, what was the good point? Actually, what was the POINT?

1) Encourage Aslan to reflect on his comments that his average should be better than it is. Got it. I officially retract any statements made or implied that my average should be better than it is.
2) Tony does not value my opinion. Point taken and noted.
3) Don't let anything affect my game including losing to children, old people, the handicapped, monkeys, kittens, midgets, aliens from outer space, etc.. Noted. As of this moment, I am no longer bothered by it.
4) Me entertaining the idea of beating everyone except VDub and pros, funny, laughter. Agreed. I don't know what I what I was thinking and retract said statements.
5) Seriously doubts I can beat him. Agreed. Tony is clearly a better bowler, again, don't know what I was thinking...maybe I had a 24-hour flu bug or something. I retract the statement and award Tony "Best Bowler on Bowlingboards.com" status until it is proven otherwise. Bowl1820, please have the site administrator send him an adaboy or a medal of some kind.

As for FTLOB...also correct. All dribble. It may not even have been me typing it. I think a 4-year old broke in my apartment and wrote that. I mean, seriously? Challenging bowlers and having the courage to face them...no need to repeat all that. Like most bowlers...I am absolutely petrified at the mere thought of not only competition...but especially outside the confines of my home center. So I retract the challenge and revise it that if anyone wants to challenge me...I officially refuse...and if I were drunk enough and foolish enough to do it, I would expect a minimum of 43 pins handicap and that we do it on the lanes and in the house of my choosing. I fear strange places.

There. Now it's all better.

[Aslan]

Non-Motiv Rant of the Day

Saturday...I bowled in the usual little tournament thing....mainly just for practice on oiled conditions.

Well...there was this kid bowling...and EVERYTHING about what he was doing...was wrong. He had a delivery that all I can describe it as....was someone looking like they were about to collapse and throw up....then rise up in slow motion...then run really fast....and jump in the air....spinning the ball (no thumb) as fast as he can...directly into the lane....about 5ft out.

So...in Game 2...I hit Brooklyn on shot #1....leave a 5-9...somehow...chop the 9-pin off. He strikes.
Shot 2, I pull the shot left, end up with a 5 /. He throws his first shot in the gutter, then strikes for the 0 /.
I get up, perfect pocket strike. He gets a Brooklyn strike.
I then pull another shot, leave a 1-3-8...can't convert....he strikes.
I then throw a Brooklyn strike. He strikes.
I'm finally getting comfortable on the left lane, 9 /. He strikes brooklyn.
I get a 'little' too outside...leave the 1-2, 8 /. He again goes Brooklyn...gets a roller to take out the 10-pin, strike.
I hit the pocket, leave a 10-pin, convert for a 9 /. He leaves the 1-5...then gutters for a 8 -.
I hit the pocket (again), leave a flat 7-pin and convert (9 /). He Brooklyn strikes AGAIN.
My line breaks down a little and in the 10th I leave a 4-pin, convert, then go Brooklyn and leave the 5-6 (somehow). He gutters on the first ball...then gets 7 on the second shot.

So...as a summary recap...I had two open frames on a chopped 5-9 and a chopped 1-3-8. I struck ONCE...despite hitting the pocket 3 times.

He, threw 3 gutter balls...two of which were on his first shots. He hit the pocket (sort of) only 4 times.

Now, on the "positive" note...his only spare conversion was a 0 / in the 2nd frame. Meanwhile, I made 6/8 spares (75%).

On the "not positive" note...it is completally demoralizing...to watch what I can only describe as some sort of walking seizure of an approach....strike SEVEN TIMES....4 of which were Brooklyn...yet he can only manage a 208!?? Last time I struck 7 times in this league...I had a 213. 2 turkeys and a single....only one open on a 2-7 split. He had a 5-bagger!!

Granted...the last time I had a 5-bagger I shot a 206...but that was because of 4-7-10 split in the 1st frame and a weird 3-4-6-1-9-10 split in the 3rd frame...which I couldn't leave if I tried 100 more times.

I don't know what the series was. I beat him in Game 1. He beat me in Game 2. Game 3 he probably beat me because mentally I was done and missed three single-pin spares....including one in the 10th. Like my coach tells me...I just gotta tell myself that...guys like that...they aren't gonna be able to compete with me over a long series...they won't be able to adjust, etc... But it's pretty friggin demoralizing nonetheless....rant over.

[Langdoj]

That type of stuff used to bother me. Now I don't let it affect my bowling. It really is a mental game and something tough to overcome. Everyone is going to get breaks or have a really good game from time to time. Heck, I even saw a 160 bowler shoot the ugliest 300 game on the planet. All 3 shots in the 10th were nowhere near the same line and he came through the nose tripping pins left and right on every shot. BUT regardless of how ugly it was he still did it and there's nothing anyone can do about it! It's just part of the game.

Maybe try the no-thumb method, sounds like a lot more fun. I am going to switch to 2 handed because I have more fun that way! And that's really what this game should be about! Of course I want to get better and challenge myself but if you are not having fun at the same time, what's the point?