New member, ball advice?

[Grande]

First post greetings from a newly arrived member from VT.

I’ve recently rediscovered the game after about a 50 year gap, with a few games played back in the 90s. My first ball was a 10 lb. Manhattan Rubber that only went straight out of my 12 yr. old left hand in the early 60s.

Part of the new appeal is the equipment available today and the evolution of the game. With the ability to control the ball, the game is much more interesting. And, it’s something old guys can do.

My search begins:

In my location, there are some fine lanes but a deficient pro shop and little advice or instruction available (part-time “pro” two nights per week for 3 hours. Drills balls, no lessons, nice guy). I'm self-taught with help from the internet although too much info. is overwhelming.

At their advice, I purchased a first ball, an Ebonite Cyclone (15 lbs). On our typical conditions, I can get it to hook a little but not as much as I’d like. When it’s oily, it’s a real struggle.

I don’t know how much is my technique, the ball or how it’s drilled (yes, fingertip).

At 63, I don’t generate a huge amount of revs or ball speed. Although athletic, lots of chronically sore body parts are impairing as well.

Conventional wisdom says use this ball for a while and get to know what you can do with it and what it does. BUT, I want another ball to learn the differences, variety and the simple fun of it.

So please, any advice as to a good next ball compliment to a Cyclone would be greatly appreciated. Something different. A step up. Should I drop to 14 lbs.?

Have considered (not only) but don’t know why:

Hammer Arson high/low flare
Roto Grip Unhginged
Ebonite Gamebreaker2 MVP/Pearl
Brunswick ???
No Storm, don’t like the “fragrance!”

I’m open to anything…Thanks

[AlexNC]

That Cyclone should be a good ball to start. You could drop to 14 if you feel the weight is an issue as far as your body is concerned - and a lighter weight ball could perhaps increase your revs. What part of the lane are you playing?

[Grande]

Not even sure of the correct terminology, being a lefty, I start with the middle dot between my feet and aim between the 2nd and 3rd arrow from the left. Then, move a board or 2 to the right as needed.



That Cyclone should be a good ball to start. You could drop to 14 if you feel the weight is an issue as far as your body is concerned - and a lighter weight ball could perhaps increase your revs. What part of the lane are you playing?

[AlexNC]

Being a lefty, playing farther to the left would allow you to find the friction earlier, getting the motion you desire. When you mention lining up on the center dot etc you may be encountering too much oil for your ball and rev rate. Move father left with your feet and your target.

[Grande]

Ah! Makes sense. Will report back tomorrow after I try it. Thanks.



Being a lefty, playing farther to the left would allow you to find the friction earlier, getting the motion you desire. When you mention lining up on the center dot etc you may be encountering too much oil for your ball and rev rate. Move father left with your feet and your target.

[Jessiewoodard57]

I'm surprised the PSO started you out with a 15#. At 59 I started with a 16# but quickly dropped to a 14# ball speed and rev rates increased a lot for me. welcome back to bowling and enjoy yourself.

[RobLV1]

Before you even think about getting a new ball, find a qualified coach and take a lesson or three. While you are not technically new to bowling, you are totally new to modern bowling, and, believe me, the rules have changed. Much of what you were taught fifty years ago is a detriment to bowling today. Be careful not to fall into the trap of believing that a new ball is the be all and end all for great bowling. It's not.

[Grande]

I totally get it. There's nothing I'd rather do than find a good coach and take a few lessons. Non-qualified fellow bowlers all keep telling me something different, most of which I'm sure is incorrect. But finding a coach anywhere near me (rural VT) is like looking for a bowling ball in Victoria's Secrets (that means I'm willing to try but it's unlikely I'll succeed!).

The new ball idea is just for the fun of getting one and seeing how they act differently first hand. And now, for dropping to 14 lbs.

Thanks for all the advice.

QUOTE=RobLV1;138620]Before you even think about getting a new ball, find a qualified coach and take a lesson or three. While you are not technically new to bowling, you are totally new to modern bowling, and, believe me, the rules have changed. Much of what you were taught fifty years ago is a detriment to bowling today. Be careful not to fall into the trap of believing that a new ball is the be all and end all for great bowling. It's not.[/QUOTE]

[RobLV1]

Check out the USBC website: bowl.com, and go to "find a..." coach. It will give you a list of Certified Coaches within the area you specify. Finding a good coach is well worth an hour's drive.

[jab5325]

Agree with Rob--get lessons. It's totally worth it--it's best to invest $100-$200 in lessons when starting out than the same price on the latest equipment.

As for a step up ball, if you want to stick to Ebonite, check out the Gamebreaker line. Putting some surface on your current ball should also help it grip the lane.

[Grande]

Lessons would be my #1 choice. Hard to come by in these parts. For the moment, I'm relying on local knowledge (at the risk of being misdirected) and that which I read. Folks are always offering pointers.

I've no commitment to any brand in particular. Someone suggested Hammer Arson. I must admit, how it looks plays a part. I prefer understated. Will Gamebreaker2 be much different than the Cyclone that I already have? There's no point in being redundant. The notion of another ball at this point is really just to see how they can differ and for the fun of it.

[AlexNC]

You can also check out the videos on USBC Bowling academy (https://www.usbcbowlingacademy.com). They are running a subscription special of something like $8 for access to all of the videos, but you can also view many of the vids for free. It's not as good as lessons, but it is a good supplement.

[Amyers]

Lessons would be my #1 choice. Hard to come by in these parts. For the moment, I'm relying on local knowledge (at the risk of being misdirected) and that which I read. Folks are always offering pointers.

I've no commitment to any brand in particular. Someone suggested Hammer Arson. I must admit, how it looks plays a part. I prefer understated. Will Gamebreaker2 be much different than the Cyclone that I already have? There's no point in being redundant. The notion of another ball at this point is really just to see how they can differ and for the fun of it.

The GB2 is a midline ball compared to the more entry level Cyclone so it will be somewhat more aggressive. The GB2 will handle more oil than the Cyclone will. You do need to understand the GB2 has more surface than the Cyclone so the ball will hook earlier than the Cyclone so be aware that you may see similar or even less backend movement from the GB2 than you currently get with the Cyclone. I think the GB2 would be a good step up from the Cyclone just want to make sure you understand what your getting. If you want more backend action you would be better off with the Adrenaline Overload if you want to stay Ebonite.

[Grande]

You can also check out the videos on USBC Bowling academy (https://www.usbcbowlingacademy.com). They are running a subscription special of something like $8 for access to all of the videos, but you can also view many of the vids for free. It's not as good as lessons, but it is a good supplement.


Agreed! Excellent resource. Thanks.

[Grande]

The GB2 is a midline ball compared to the more entry level Cyclone so it will be somewhat more aggressive. The GB2 will handle more oil than the Cyclone will. You do need to understand the GB2 has more surface than the Cyclone so the ball will hook earlier than the Cyclone so be aware that you may see similar or even less backend movement from the GB2 than you currently get with the Cyclone. I think the GB2 would be a good step up from the Cyclone just want to make sure you understand what your getting. If you want more backend action you would be better off with the Adrenaline Overload if you want to stay Ebonite.

Maybe the GB2 MVP? I do want something significantly different than what I have for the learning experience.

[Amyers]

Maybe the GB2 MVP? I do want something significantly different than what I have for the learning experience.

The only difference between the GB2, MVP, and Gold are weather they are solid, hybrid, or pearl and the surface. All three balls use the same cover stock and core. You can change the surface yourself and a beginning bowler and truthfully most average bowlers will never notice the difference between types of cover stock. The cyclone tends to be on the stronger side of your average lower end ball so I'm not really sure you going to see much of a difference between it and the GB2 line.

It really depends on what you want. If you feel like the cyclone is sliding in the oil too much, not coming in to a roll before it hits the pins, or you can't move inside with it, the GB2 would be a good choice. If you really just want a big backend reaction I would go with something like the Adrenaline Overload, Brunswick Mastermind Brainiac, or Hammer Black Widow Red Legend (not the solid) all of these will give you a bigger backend without being crazy strong to where you can use it on league night.

[Grande]

Again, thank you. I'd speculate that it's more likely the bowler than the ball. When I find a coach, I'm sure refinements in my release and overall technique will improve the experience and yield better results.

It certainly come to a roll before it hits the pins, its just that the change of direction (hook?) is less than I'd like and doesn't enter the pocket at much of an angle.

[jab5325]

Again, thank you. I'd speculate that it's more likely the bowler than the ball. When I find a coach, I'm sure refinements in my release and overall technique will improve the experience and yield better results.

It certainly come to a roll before it hits the pins, its just that the change of direction (hook?) is less than I'd like and doesn't enter the pocket at much of an angle.

The Cyclone is a great ball, but is what it is--as Amyers mentioned, it's not very aggressive.

Just don't get into the mindset that you need a big, wide, arcing hook to achieve the proper entry angle to the pocket. Learning oil patterns and how to utilize them to your advantage is every bit as important as what equipment you have.

If you're a righty having trouble getting the Cyclone back to the pocket, try playing out around board 7-8 (out of the oil) and have your PSO put some surface on your ball.

[Grande]

Well, I did as suggested this AM in my newly joined senior league (casual, welcoming to a newbie like me). After moving everything (approach and target) to the left, I'm a lefty, I got decent rotation , transition to a roll and gentle hook that turned out to be both effective and repeatable. For a while, I was in love with the Cyclone!

Fast forward to a few hours later; went back for practice 2 lanes over. Same everything; approach, target, velocity, stance, grip, follow through etc. The ball wouldn't hook at all. Skid, roll, a barely detectable change of direction. Others suggested that maybe all the right handed players and straight ball rollers pushed all the oil to the left side and down the lane. Does that make sense? What do I do with that situation? Again, would another ball help?

As for the PSO, virtually non-existent. Only there for 3 hours a week and there's a waiting line. And, why change the surface on the Cyclone if it works well sometimes and it may be a matter of lane condition?

Thanks,
Grande (Jon)

[AlexNC]

Well, I did as suggested this AM in my newly joined senior league (casual, welcoming to a newbie like me). After moving everything (approach and target) to the left, I'm a lefty, I got decent rotation , transition to a roll and gentle hook that turned out to be both effective and repeatable. For a while, I was in love with the Cyclone!

Fast forward to a few hours later; went back for practice 2 lanes over. Same everything; approach, target, velocity, stance, grip, follow through etc. The ball wouldn't hook at all. Skid, roll, a barely detectable change of direction. Others suggested that maybe all the right handed players and straight ball rollers pushed all the oil to the left side and down the lane. Does that make sense? What do I do with that situation? Again, would another ball help?



As for the PSO, virtually non-existent. Only there for 3 hours a week and there's a waiting line. And, why change the surface on the Cyclone if it works well sometimes and it may be a matter of lane condition?

Thanks,
Grande (Jon)

Is it possible that in the second session your wrist was in more of a broken position - perhaps because you had already bowled earlier? This is something I have experienced in the past, where I have wondered why I am losing reaction. I recorded myself and found that over time I allowed my wrist to get lazy.

[Grande]

I'd have thought not but I'm sure it's possible...

[Tony]

Generally with a typical house oil pattern, and a average release the Cyclone will not hook much if you play that part of the lane, it might be worth experimenting on lining up with the outside of your right foot at the center dot / board 20, and throw the ball right over 2nd arrow and see what happens.

[Amyers]

Well, I did as suggested this AM in my newly joined senior league (casual, welcoming to a newbie like me). After moving everything (approach and target) to the left, I'm a lefty, I got decent rotation , transition to a roll and gentle hook that turned out to be both effective and repeatable. For a while, I was in love with the Cyclone!

Fast forward to a few hours later; went back for practice 2 lanes over. Same everything; approach, target, velocity, stance, grip, follow through etc. The ball wouldn't hook at all. Skid, roll, a barely detectable change of direction. Others suggested that maybe all the right handed players and straight ball rollers pushed all the oil to the left side and down the lane. Does that make sense? What do I do with that situation? Again, would another ball help?

As for the PSO, virtually non-existent. Only there for 3 hours a week and there's a waiting line. And, why change the surface on the Cyclone if it works well sometimes and it may be a matter of lane condition?

Thanks,
Grande (Jon)

Glad to hear that you found a league you like. I really doubt that all the oil had been pushed over and caused your ball not to hook. If that would be the case you have two choices move your feet and target farther right for a right hander farther left for a lefty or switch to a more aggressive ball. When you are setting up the first thing you have to do is find the hook. Keep moving your feet and target towards whichever hand you bowl with. If you get outside 5 on a house shot and the balls still not hooking you've got an issue with your release. My personal guess would be you changed something in the release and just didn't realize it. Breaking the wrist back or maybe your hand position are two likely culprits as both can happen and not be easily noticeable.

I would suggest working with the Cyclone a little longer especially since you did find some success with it before buying something else. Adding another ball is not a bad idea but you want to make sure you are bowling correctly before you buy something else so that you get what you actually need instead of trying to use a ball to correct a problem because that rarely works. If you do purchase another ball rather than the adrenaline that we discussed earlier I would go with the regular GB 2. If wont give you that super big backend but with the issue your having the additional surface will help you get the ball started and into a roll.

Are there any other PSO is your area?

[Grande]

There are 2 pro shops about an hour away (different directions) that I know nothing about. Sound like a road trip.

My local shop has 5 balls in inventory. One is a GB2 but it's 15 lbs. I'd like to drop to 14 in the next ball. He recommended an Arson High Flare Solid. Got to admit, I can't get past what it looks like... I'm trying to keep my business local but it's difficult if they don't show up!

I'll go back and try again paying close attention to release and hand position.

[Amyers]

If you decide to purchase a new ball make sure the PSO watches you throw before you buy anything stick to something medium end with a little bit of surface since your existing ball is a pearl. I would stay away from asymmetrical balls for now.

The Arson High Flare solid and the GB 2 are somewhat close both medium balls with some surface.

[Tony]

Others suggested that maybe all the right handed players and straight ball rollers pushed all the oil to the left side and down the lane. Does that make sense?

No that does not really make sense at all. There might be some oil carried down but the oil will not migrate across the lane to the left side. The most likely oil condition that would happen on the left side when no lefties are bowling would be from right hand bowlers that move way to the left and deplete some of the oil on the first 15' of the lane on the left side.

[Grande]

No that does not really make sense at all. There might be some oil carried down but the oil will not migrate across the lane to the left side. The most likely oil condition that would happen on the left side when no lefties are bowling would be from right hand bowlers that move way to the left and deplete some of the oil on the first 15' of the lane on the left side.

You're absolutely correct. I went back and at Amyers' suggestion, concentrated on wrist position and release. The results were favorable. Just the right amount of hook returned like magic! I'm told the lanes were oiled last night for league play and much oil remained on the left side.

I think the GB2 might be the next purchase.