New member, ball advice, Revisited.

[Grande]

Having put in some time getting to know my Ebonite Cyclone (first and only ball), my PSO suggested something solid and a little stronger as a next ball.

Recommended were: Hammer Arson High Flare Solid, Colombia Delirium Shock (or Severe) and Ebonite Gamebreaker2.

Will they all be similar? There is a significant price difference. Is it worth it?

Drilled prices: Arson- $162. Delirium-$169. GB2-$131.

Thanks

[got_a_300]

All of those bowling balls are quite close in specs probably any one
of them will work for you. It just depends on which brand you want
to try or the brand you are most loyal to.

The only real big difference is the warranty on the balls
the Arson High Flare Solid has a 3 Year and the others
have a 1 Year warranty.

Arson High Flare Solid

Lane Condition Medium
Core Type Symmetric
RG 2.48
Differential 0.054

Delirium Shock

Lane Condition Medium
Core Type Symmetric
RG 2.46
Differential 0.043

Severe Delirium

Lane Condition Medium
Core Type Symmetric
RG 2.46
Differential 0.043


Game Breaker 2

Lane Condition Medium-Heavy
Core Type Symmetric
RG 2.48
Differential 0.048

[Grande]

All of those bowling balls are quite close in specs probably any one
of them will work for you. It just depends on which brand you want
to try or the brand you are most loyal to.

The only real big difference is the warranty on the balls
the Arson High Flare Solid has a 3 Year and the others
have a 1 Year warranty.

Arson High Flare Solid

Lane Condition Medium
Core Type Symmetric
RG 2.48
Differential 0.054

Delirium Shock

Lane Condition Medium
Core Type Symmetric
RG 2.46
Differential 0.043

Severe Delirium

Lane Condition Medium
Core Type Symmetric
RG 2.46
Differential 0.043


Game Breaker 2

Lane Condition Medium-Heavy
Core Type Symmetric
RG 2.48
Differential 0.048

Thanks. If all be near equal, I'd probably save the $$ and get a GB2.

Will I lose much performance if I go from 15 to 14 lbs.?

[billf]

I would only suggest dropping weight if you absolutely physically have to. Some bowlers can get away with it while others see a big dropoff. The amount of miss room is reduced.

[got_a_300]

As billf said I wouldn't drop down to 14lbs unless you need to
do it for physical reasons. I have some 14lb equipment left from
when I started back bowling after a 12 year break and I have a
tendency to throw it too hard when I use it now days.

That is why all my new stuff is always 15lbs and as everyone says
15lbs is the sweet spot in bowling balls now days.

[Grande]

As billf said I wouldn't drop down to 14lbs unless you need to
do it for physical reasons. I have some 14lb equipment left from
when I started back bowling after a 12 year break and I have a
tendency to throw it too hard when I use it now days.

That is why all my new stuff is always 15lbs and as everyone says
15lbs is the sweet spot in bowling balls now days.

The local pro says 15 lbs also. I'm 63. 6'1". 220 lbs. Reasonably athletic (still play hockey, golf, ski, etc.). Just thinking that easing the stress on the aging joints might be a good idea. Staying with 15 is not a problem. Just looking for more revs also.

My small town PSO actually has a GB2 in inventory! I guess I'll wait until Monday just in case I win the Arson HF Solid on Sunday. Wish me luck!

[Tony]

The ball that I would look back and wish someone would have suggested to me, were I in your position would
be the Storm Hy-road, even with companies releasing a dozen new balls a year they are still making this ball
that originally came out in 2008....that should tell you something.

One of the guys I bowl with got a recommendation to replace his old Hy-Road with a GB 2 , 2 months later he ended up giving the GB2
away and buying a new Hy-Road ......

[Grande]

The ball that I would look back and wish someone would have suggested to me, were I in your position would
be the Storm Hy-road, even with companies releasing a dozen new balls a year they are still making this ball
that originally came out in 2008....that should tell you something.

One of the guys I bowl with got a recommendation to replace his old Hy-Road with a GB 2 , 2 months later he ended up giving the GB2
away and buying a new Hy-Road ......

Thanks for the advice. I'll certainly look further into that.

[Hot_pocket]

The hy-road is amazing. One of the most used balls on tour by storm staffers.

[Hot_pocket]

If you feel like waiting Brunswick is reading the vintage danger zone on the 16th. I've seen the ball at work and it is absolutely ridiculous.

[Grande]

Hy-Road was looking better all the time until I realized that it has a fragrance. There's something for everyone but that's not for me...

[AlexNC]

Hy-Road was looking better all the time until I realized that it has a fragrance. There's something for everyone but that's not for me...

Yes, the Storm Balls have fragrances, and I felt like I was at my Grandma's house the first time I had my IQ Tour in the car (apple crisp). But, I will also say that my Brunswick stuff makes any room it occupies smell like a factory, or maybe fresh oil. After a few weeks its not as noticeable anyways unless you stick your nose upon it or leave it somewhere warm.

[Tony]

Hy-Road was looking better all the time until I realized that it has a fragrance. There's something for everyone but that's not for me...

It's a gimmick of course, and the smell is only somewhat strong for a short time, if you leave the ball on a heat register, or get it resurfaced. I bowled a couple of weeks ago against a team and we had 3 IQ tour 30, and 3 Hy-roads on the rack and I couldn't smell a thing, the IQ only came out a month or 6 weeks ago so they are all new.

The only way I can smell the scent on my IQ or Hy-road is getting my nose an inch or two from the ball, but that's just me and I pay no attention to it. If you have an interest maybe look up or start a thread on how strong the smell of Storm balls are.

I think all balls have some smell, I would have sworn my Hyper-cell Skid had an smell but it doesn't have a factory applied scent. The Vintage Rhino gold smelled a little like burnt plastic crossed with dirty old socks ! lol

[Grande]

I think all balls have some smell, I would have sworn my Hyper-cell Skid had an smell but it doesn't have a factory applied scent. The Vintage Rhino gold smelled a little like burnt plastic crossed with dirty old socks ! lol

Now that's a smell I can live with. Old factory/locker room scented wouldn't be bad either!

[larry mc]

the new storm fight looks like its gunna be something special ,, dont let a scent decide your ball choice

[Grande]

Revisiting and seeking advice again!

Well, a few months have passed and instead of buying balls, I sought lessons and got to know what a Cyclone will do with my style. I'm told I'm a typical 2nd arrow, down and in bowler with moderate speed and revs (whatever that means). A fairly gentle smooth style.

My average had gone from 140 to 160 and recently with the occasional 200+ game (new high of 237). Improved release, tempo and consistency.

So now to take a step more aggressive. Some say go for the very aggressive end of the spectrum to learn what it can do, "go buy a hook in a box!". Others say take more gradual steps as I progress, "don't jump in the deep end of the pool!"

The PSO has ordered 3 balls for me to choose from, all of which he wants in inventory so there's no problem there. 1) Ebonite Gamebreaker 2 MVP, 2) Storm Fight, 3) Hammer Dark Legend. He says I'd do fine with any but totally different experiences. All to use on typical house conditions that will vary greatly. Only casual senior league use.

As things stand, I'm leaning GB2 but wonder if it's a big enough change from the Cyclone. Hammer looks scary but exciting. Fight, very cool on paper. The pro knows nothing about it. I'm looking to learn the game, what different balls can do and what I can do with them.

Any thoughts from the board?

[Amyers]

The GB 2 MVP is the most logical step up but you're not going to see a huge difference probably 2-1 from the Cyclone. The Fight is a different beast and from what I e seen and heard you either love it or hate it. The Dark Legend is quite a bit more aggressive than you're current ball.

If you're looking to go with a smooth progressive arsenal the get the GB2 if you want something different and to experiment with a different shot shape get the Dark Legend. If your pro shop isn't familiar with the fight I would avoid it even though I think it's a good ball.

[Grande]

The GB 2 MVP is the most logical step up but you're not going to see a huge difference probably 2-1 from the Cyclone. The Fight is a different beast and from what I e seen and heard you either love it or hate it. The Dark Legend is quite a bit more aggressive than you're current ball.

If you're looking to go with a smooth progressive arsenal the get the GB2 if you want something different and to experiment with a different shot shape get the Dark Legend. If your pro shop isn't familiar with the fight I would avoid it even though I think it's a good ball.

I'm thinking similarly. I'd been afraid of the relatively extreme aggressiveness of the Dark Legend and thinking GB2. Until yesterday! I was getting a nice ball reaction with the Cyclone and thinking going one step at a time until I was traveling and decided to try visiting a new bowling center (Bradley Bowl, Hartford, CT). They explained to me that they put down a typical house shot the night before but "use much more oil" than most places you'll go...

I couldn't get the ball to do anything. Barely a transition to roll and minimal hook if any. Just skidded lazily through the oil. I started wondering if the Dark Legend might be good but drilled to tone it down a bit...

[Amyers]

I'm thinking similarly. I'd been afraid of the relatively extreme aggressiveness of the Dark Legend and thinking GB2. Until yesterday! I was getting a nice ball reaction with the Cyclone and thinking going one step at a time until I was traveling and decided to try visiting a new bowling center (Bradley Bowl, Hartford, CT). They explained to me that they put down a typical house shot the night before but "use much more oil" than most places you'll go...

I couldn't get the ball to do anything. Barely a transition to roll and minimal hook if any. Just skidded lazily through the oil. I started wondering if the Dark Legend might be good but drilled to tone it down a bit...

If you choose the dark legend don't try to drill it to make it something it's not. Have it drilled to fit your game and what the ball was meant to do. You can always add a third ball in between the two you have if you need to bridge the gap.

[Grande]

It's time for the new ball. Since last winter, my only ball has been an Ebonite GB2 MVP. It's seen me through bone dry summer lanes that didn't see oil for 2 weeks (and not well)!

I'm still looking for a significant step up without getting into trouble. I like the GB2, I just want more and different. As a senior with low ball speed and "some" revs, what might be a good choice for the now again oiled conditions? I don't want something the needs speed and high revs to perform.

The local PSO's suggestions: Track Cyborg (or even Paradox), Columbia Swerve FX, Hammer Dark Legend (still on the table), Brunswick Mastermind Einstein.

Any advice or other suggestions?

Thanks.

[Amyers]

It's time for the new ball. Since last winter, my only ball has been an Ebonite GB2 MVP. It's seen me through bone dry summer lanes that didn't see oil for 2 weeks (and not well)!

I'm still looking for a significant step up without getting into trouble. I like the GB2, I just want more and different. As a senior with low ball speed and "some" revs, what might be a good choice for the now again oiled conditions? I don't want something the needs speed and high revs to perform.

The local PSO's suggestions: Track Cyborg (or even Paradox), Columbia Swerve FX, Hammer Dark Legend (still on the table), Brunswick Mastermind Einstein.

Any advice or other suggestions?

Thanks.

What are you looking for. Do you want earlier than the GB2 MVP, more backend, handle more oil? More is a very vague word in bowling need to know more where.

[Grande]

Is "yes to all" an option? I guess to put if vaguely, The GB2 seems to loose "oomph" when it reaches the pocket. I don't think earlier is the goal. More backend, maybe yes. Oil tolerance, yes as well.

I think I'm largely looking for something that is different, just to learn firsthand what different equipment can do. Given that I have so little experience, I want to feel and see for myself rather than read other's opinions.

[1VegasBowler]

It's time for the new ball. Since last winter, my only ball has been an Ebonite GB2 MVP. It's seen me through bone dry summer lanes that didn't see oil for 2 weeks (and not well)!

I'm still looking for a significant step up without getting into trouble. I like the GB2, I just want more and different. As a senior with low ball speed and "some" revs, what might be a good choice for the now again oiled conditions? I don't want something the needs speed and high revs to perform.

The local PSO's suggestions: Track Cyborg (or even Paradox), Columbia Swerve FX, Hammer Dark Legend (still on the table), Brunswick Mastermind Einstein.

Any advice or other suggestions?

Thanks.

I'm a Brunswick person and the Mastermind series isn't a bad choice by any means.

You may also want to consider the Vintage Danger Zone, the Fanatic or even the Fanatic BTU. On the DV8 side. either the Vandal Smash and the Grudge Hybrid.

The Vandal Smash & Grudge Hybrid are both great on oily lanes.

The Fanatic is a very good versatile ball, and the Fanatic BTU is great on burned up/dry lanes, and also does a great job down the middle in the oil as well.

[Amyers]

Is "yes to all" an option? I guess to put if vaguely, The GB2 seems to loose "oomph" when it reaches the pocket. I don't think earlier is the goal. More backend, maybe yes. Oil tolerance, yes as well.

I think I'm largely looking for something that is different, just to learn firsthand what different equipment can do. Given that I have so little experience, I want to feel and see for myself rather than read other's opinions.

Definitely More oil and More Backend
Brunswick Ultimate Nirvana
Storm Street Fight
Radical Guru Limited or Supreme
Ebonite Warrior Supreme
Track Cyborg

More Backend
Brunswick Mastermind Braniac
Storm Snaplock
Track Paradox or Trilogy
Hammer Dark Legend (not the solid)

Honestly all of these are more than I would use on a typical house shot but if you want to try something different it's a good list. I might also suggest the Brunswick Mastermind Einstein if you can find a goo deal on clearance. It would handle more oil and probably more backend than your GB2 MVP and be more of a single step up. The above mentioned balls are more like 2 balls up from your current ball. If you could afford it with a god deal on a Einstein and get a Snap Lock or Trilogy looks like a complete bag to me.

[Grande]

Thanks for that lucid and thorough response.

My focus was down to the Dark Legend, Einstein and recently, Cyborg. My local PSO went to an expo last month expecting to be unimpressed with the Cyborg. Quite the opposite happened. He loved it. He immediately put one on the shelf and has been suggesting it as a good choice. It seems to be in the same class as the Dark Legend. How might they differ?

[Amyers]

Thanks for that lucid and thorough response.

My focus was down to the Dark Legend, Einstein and recently, Cyborg. My local PSO went to an expo last month expecting to be unimpressed with the Cyborg. Quite the opposite happened. He loved it. He immediately put one on the shelf and has been suggesting it as a good choice. It seems to be in the same class as the Dark Legend. How might they differ?

I have not seen the Cyborg in person yet but from the numbers and watching a few videos of it I would expect it to be the earliest and have the least amount of backend reaction. It would also probably handle a little more oil. It's definitely a more aggressive ball than you GB2 MVP.

The other two I am very familiar with the Einstein I actually own. Of the three it would be in the middle longer than the Cyborg and earlier than the Dark Legend. More backend than the Cyborg slightly less than the Dark Legend.

The Dark Legend has the most back end movement of the three balls and the least amount of surface so it handles the least amount of oil. The DL does have the strongest cover of the three mentioned balls so that does help with getting it started a little sooner than you might otherwise expect.

The DL and Einstein are both great balls in my opinion. It really comes down to if you want something that's a little more than your MVP in the Einstein or do you want something that's more stand left throw right which will be the DL. I can't comment on the Cyborg yet I'll eventually run in to some guys throwing it on my travel league but it's just recently came out. I wrote Track off as dead and a joke many years ago but the Paradox and Heat are changing my mind. It may be worth considering the price difference I've seen some sites clearing out the Einstein's for $99 or less which is hard to beat.

[LOUVIT]

i may have missed it if it was asked, but do you use one ball for strikes and spares? how are you on 10 pins with the hook? that is my issue right now just the 10 pin...lol At our age and not know ing the new game spares count a lot! Ex. last week I left 6 10 pins made 2..and 4 solid 7 pins made 3, I averaged 140 which could have been 170 or so

[1VegasBowler]

i may have missed it if it was asked, but do you use one ball for strikes and spares? how are you on 10 pins with the hook? that is my issue right now just the 10 pin...lol At our age and not know ing the new game spares count a lot! Ex. last week I left 6 10 pins made 2..and 4 solid 7 pins made 3, I averaged 140 which could have been 170 or so

I use plastic for the 10 pin. Once in a great while I accidentally create lift with my plastic, but because there is very little reaction (if any) from plastic, it stays well enough on line to get the 10 pin.

Unless you can throw your strike ball with a perfectly straight release, getting that 10 pin is extremely difficult.

[LOUVIT]

I use plastic for the 10 pin. Once in a great while I accidentally create lift with my plastic, but because there is very little reaction (if any) from plastic, it stays well enough on line to get the 10 pin.

Unless you can throw your strike ball with a perfectly straight release, getting that 10 pin is extremely difficult.


mine either hits the channel half way down or hooks away from the 10 in what seems the last 6''s...lol. and somehow I will chop the 6 off the 10...dam 10 pin! I'd rather go high and leave a 4 pin

[1VegasBowler]

mine either hits the channel half way down or hooks away from the 10 in what seems the last 6''s...lol. and somehow I will chop the 6 off the 10...dam 10 pin! I'd rather go high and leave a 4 pin

It's a matter of throwing the ball perfectly straight, but going cross lane doesn't hurt either. In going cross lane you can have more lift and let it hang close to the gutter and the ball should stay right on line for the 10 pin. If you have the 6-10, then target the first arrow with plastic. Either way works for me. Just depends on how I'm feeling with my release.

[Grande]

A click away from ordering an Einstein when last night a local "expert" suggested a Brainiac. His suggestion was based on my fairly low ball speed. He thought that the Einstein might start a little too early, given all the factors involved (ball speed, rev. rate, oil, etc.). I think I'm over thinking this by now... You are correct. With a little shopping, the prices can't be beat.

Re: a spare ball. I don't have one but it's on my "to do" list. I'm a lefty and do leave many a 7, 4-7 that are a struggle to convert.

[1VegasBowler]

A click away from ordering an Einstein when last night a local "expert" suggested a Brainiac. His suggestion was based on my fairly low ball speed. He thought that the Einstein might start a little too early, given all the factors involved (ball speed, rev. rate, oil, etc.). I think I'm over thinking this by now... You are correct. With a little shopping, the prices can't be beat.

Re: a spare ball. I don't have one but it's on my "to do" list. I'm a lefty and do leave many a 7, 4-7 that are a struggle to convert.

The Brainiac and Vintage Danger Zone are very similar balls. In either case you can't go wrong. Both are very good.

[RobLV1]

The Brainiac and Vintage Danger Zone are very similar balls. In either case you can't go wrong. Both are very good.

Meaning no disrespect, but please let posters know that you are using 12 lb. balls. In heavier versions, there is nothing similar in the reactions that you will see in the Danger Zone and the Brainiac.

[1VegasBowler]

Meaning no disrespect, but please let posters know that you are using 12 lb. balls. In heavier versions, there is nothing similar in the reactions that you will see in the Danger Zone and the Brainiac.

No disrespect taken. My signature has all of my equipment with the weights listed.

[Amyers]

A click away from ordering an Einstein when last night a local "expert" suggested a Brainiac. His suggestion was based on my fairly low ball speed. He thought that the Einstein might start a little too early, given all the factors involved (ball speed, rev. rate, oil, etc.). I think I'm over thinking this by now... You are correct. With a little shopping, the prices can't be beat.

Re: a spare ball. I don't have one but it's on my "to do" list. I'm a lefty and do leave many a 7, 4-7 that are a struggle to convert.

To be honest the balls are close and either will preform very well on a THS I don't have a Braniac but my wife does and loves it. The braniac is a little longer and just a little more backend. I think you'll be happy with it if that's what you decided on. Buy the spare ball.

[Amyers]

Meaning no disrespect, but please let posters know that you are using 12 lb. balls. In heavier versions, there is nothing similar in the reactions that you will see in the Danger Zone and the Brainiac.

Rob I'm really not sure he's as far off on this as you may think. There are a lot of similarities between the two balls both in real life and in the numbers. I have the VDZ and my wife has the Barniac neither of them are 12 lbs. and there are some similarities. The Braniac is a little longer and more angular but really not a lot different. Could be because I have a length drilling on my VDZ but really they are somewhat close I wouldn't want both in the same bag. Take a look at Brunswick's ratings on their site they don't have them listed too differently either. I think a lot of people underestimate the strength of that cover because its in the vintage line. The VDZ honestly is about as strong as my Einstein just longer. Well what's about the same strength as an Einstein but just a little longer the Braniac.

[1VegasBowler]

Rob I'm really not sure he's as far off on this as you may think. There are a lot of similarities between the two balls both in real life and in the numbers. I have the VDZ and my wife has the Barniac neither of them are 12 lbs. and there are some similarities. The Braniac is a little longer and more angular but really not a lot different. Could be because I have a length drilling on my VDZ but really they are somewhat close I wouldn't want both in the same bag. Take a look at Brunswick's ratings on their site they don't have them listed too differently either. I think a lot of people underestimate the strength of that cover because its in the vintage line. The VDZ honestly is about as strong as my Einstein just longer. Well what's about the same strength as an Einstein but just a little longer the Braniac.

As I said in other posts, there was a time when I was looking at both of them and couldn't decide because of their similarities. Either way I didn't think I could go wrong.

It was my PSO who felt that the VDZ would be a better fit because it would be a bit smoother than the Brainiac.

[RobLV1]

I have seen both balls used by the same bowler. The balls react totally differently. The Danger Zone is a symmetrically-cored solid that is meant to mimic the motion of the original Danger Zone. In is very smooth and in the middle in terms of aggression. The Brainiac, on the other hand has an asymmetrical aggressive core and a polished pearl cover to try to create a skid/snap reaction; something that Brunswick is not known for. It is very difficult to evaluate ball reactions off the hands of different bowlers, however the graphs on the Brunswick website are pretty accurate.

[Amyers]

I have seen both balls used by the same bowler. The balls react totally differently. The Danger Zone is a symmetrically-cored solid that is meant to mimic the motion of the original Danger Zone. In is very smooth and in the middle in terms of aggression. The Brainiac, on the other hand has an asymmetrical aggressive core and a polished pearl cover to try to create a skid/snap reaction; something that Brunswick is not known for. It is very difficult to evaluate ball reactions off the hands of different bowlers, however the graphs on the Brunswick website are pretty accurate.

Rob I will give you the core in the Braniac is asymmetrical although it is a mild asymmetrical .13 vs a symmetrical in the VDZ. Remember though a ball can be .9 and still called a symmetrical. Probably not the case here with a light bulb core but anything's possible until you see the actual number.

Braniac VDZ
RG 2.55 2.54
Diff .48 .48
Surface = =
Hook 210 220
Length 150 125
Break Point 145 120

IDK looks pretty close to me. Your not the first person I've seen comment that the VDZ is smoother but most of them that I've seen say that have changed the surface to 2k or 3k. I'm not saying that they are exactly the same the Braniac changes direction quicker and harder than the VDZ but it's close enough with the OOB surfaces I wouldn't want them both in the same bag. I'd love to find a video with somebody throwing both on the same lanes I bet they are within 2-1 of each other with them. Bowling.com and Bowlingball.com both list the VDZ as skid/flip.

[Grande]

BTW, Current ball (Gamebreaker 2 MVP) and whatever comes next are 15 lbs.