USBC Masters

[Turkey Track Hammer]

Anyone watching ?

[fortheloveofbowling]

I was until technical difficulties started. :mad:

[Turkey Track Hammer]

Well I was trying to watch it. Technical difficulties, WTF! Who watching bowling anyway?

[Turkey Track Hammer]

Back in business for now.

[fortheloveofbowling]

Entertaining telecast.

[RobLV1]

I thought that one of the most interesting things about the telecast was the heart rate monitor that Wes Mallot was wearing. I can't even imagine throwing a smooth shot with my heart rate over 160!

[NYMIKE]

I thought that one of the most interesting things about the telecast was the heart rate monitor that Wes Mallot was wearing. I can't even imagine throwing a smooth shot with my heart rate over 160!

His normal heart rate was like 140 thats crazy too.

[fordman1]

In another few years all you are going to see is two handers. They have too much of an advantage. Should have banned two handers over 12 years old before it became a problem. Another nail in the coffin.

[RobLV1]

His normal heart rate was like 140 thats crazy too.

That was his "normal" heart rate while bowling in the finals on TV at a major tournament. I wonder what his real normal heart rate is. Mine's 65.

[NYMIKE]

That was his "normal" heart rate while bowling in the finals on TV at a major tournament. I wonder what his real normal heart rate is. Mine's 65.

Well normal heart rate is 60 to 70 beats per minute, my is also around 65, Wes is a veteran pro, not his first rodeo so it's amazing that he was that hyped up.

[RobLV1]

In another few years all you are going to see is two handers. They have too much of an advantage. Should have banned two handers over 12 years old before it became a problem. Another nail in the coffin.

What we are witnessing is a major change in the sport of bowling. I don't agree that it's "another nail in the coffin." If two handed bowling becomes the norm at the professional level, I think it will serve to redefine the difference between professionals and house bowlers; the same difference that has been destroyed by the USBC's total failure to regulate "house" lane conditions that allow league bowlers to believe that they are as good as the pros based on their inflated league averages. House bowlers will still bowl with one hand for the most part, but I think that they will at least see that they are not in the same league with the pros.

[Jessiewoodard57]

What we are witnessing is a major change in the sport of bowling. I don't agree that it's "another nail in the coffin." If two handed bowling becomes the norm at the professional level, I think it will serve to redefine the difference between professionals and house bowlers; the same difference that has been destroyed by the USBC's total failure to regulate "house" lane conditions that allow league bowlers to believe that they are as good as the pros based on their inflated league averages. House bowlers will still bowl with one hand for the most part, but I think that they will at least see that they are not in the same league with the pros.

I think bowling one or two handed whom ever has the more skill at repeating a great shot will be the better bowler. I see many local bowlers that bowl 2 handed that can not repeat a shot do lousy. Personally I would like to see the house shot be a PBA masters pattern and not the same one every week then we shall see who the great league bowlers are. 300 games would be a harder achievement Even a 220 average would be a challenge. Imagine how much people would get out to actually practice instead of only league play.

[fordman1]

Two points: First I was rooting for Wes but he choked plain and simple!

Second if you idealist want to kill what is left of league bowling is start putting out hard ever changing patterns.

[Briantime]

I find watching two handers in the PBA boring. It's like they found a way to beat the game with a technique that requires less skill...

[RobLV1]

I find watching two handers in the PBA boring. It's like they found a way to beat the game with a technique that requires less skill...

It doesn't require less skill... i requires different skills! Big difference.

[shadd]

I don't get all the jealousy...I mean negativity toward 2-handers.

The only negative thing I can say about the technique is that it isn't very aesthetically pleasing, imo.

If they get such a benefit from the technique and it takes no skill, why doesn't EVERYONE learn to bowl 2-handed? Those that bag on it are either stubborn or don't believe the words they say. Either way, the vitriol is quite entertaining and the movie Grumpy Old Men comes to mind.

I bowl 1 handed and with a thumb, btw.

[Briantime]

I don't get all the jealousy...I mean negativity toward 2-handers.

The only negative thing I can say about the technique is that it isn't very aesthetically pleasing, imo.

If they get such a benefit from the technique and it takes no skill, why doesn't EVERYONE learn to bowl 2-handed? Those that bag on it are either stubborn or don't believe the words they say. Either way, the vitriol is quite entertaining and the movie Grumpy Old Men comes to mind.

I bowl 1 handed and with a thumb, btw.


I don't know for sure if you were referencing my post, but I said it takes less skill. Do you think it is a coincidence that the youngest bowler to win a major is a two handed bowler? I don't.

For example: I recently went to the second of two bowling outings through my work. Kind of an activity day, I bowled with the same group both times. One guy averaged about 80 bowling one handed. On a lark, he picked up a 9 pound ball, started whipping it down the lane two handed and threw a 176. Coincidence?

Do I care if every bowler in the PBA bowls two handed? No really. I just find it less compelling to watch.

[fortheloveofbowling]

Hopefully that guy got excited by his better scoring experience and joins a league. We can use all the new bowlers we can get.

[Briantime]

Hopefully that guy got excited by his better scoring experience and joins a league. We can use all the new bowlers we can get.

I certainly cannot disagree with that :)

[Jessiewoodard57]

Two points:
Second if you idealist want to kill what is left of league bowling is start putting out hard ever changing patterns.

I am not an idealist but let's face the facts a house shot can be many more board wider then the sport pattern shot therefore requiring less accuracy with the shot. No I don't want to end leagues as they are. In my neck of the woods (the Villages Area central Florida) many of these seniors throw a straight down the middle ball and would never know the difference. I myself am a low average bowler but still would welcome the sport pattern shots. At our particular house half the time they only oil the heads which is chasing off more bowlers then a sport pattern would.

[fordman1]

I wonder if Don Gates is still around? He is one of the rich retirees in the Villages..

[AlexNC]

I don't have a problem with the 2 handers, but I have difficulty imagining their careers having the same longevity. Wes looked great today and I was surprised he didn't make it to the final.

[vdubtx]

Congrats to Anthony. I have mentioned him on here several times the past few years as he is local to me and a friend.

Way to go kid!!

[JasonNJ]

I don't have a problem with 2 handers. I think they do have an advantage with carry though but it's still about repeating your shots and hitting your mark. Like Belmonte yesterday in the 9th frame against Martin Larsen. He needed to strike to have a chance but missed his mark and immediately knew it.

[RobLV1]

Does anyone else see the irony in the fact that bowlers who have been complaining about the change in bowling that requires ball knowledge and ball changes to become as important as the physical aspect of the game are now complaining that too much physicality gives the two handers an advantage?

[vdubtx]

Seems like bowlers in particular just have to have something to complain about.

Conditions too easy
Two handers have advantage
Lefties have advantage

The list could go on and on and on.....

[Jessiewoodard57]

Congrats to Anthony. I have mentioned him on here several times the past few years as he is local to me and a friend.

Way to go kid!!

I noticed the young man seemed very humble and an outstanding sportsman.

[Jessiewoodard57]

Does anyone else see the irony in the fact that bowlers who have been complaining about the change in bowling that requires ball knowledge and ball changes to become as important as the physical aspect of the game are now complaining that too much physicality gives the two handers an advantage?

I look at bowling as a fun game that the only one I really need to challenge is myself to get better. An easy house shot that I can miss my target by a margin of 5 boards and still hit the pocket in my opinion does not challenge a persons ability to adjust to the target be it a change in approach, release, a ball change or a surface change. A casual bowler be they a league bowler or open bowler will not care about these items enough to do the homework to learn how to fix the issues of missing the target. Most times the blame will fall on the lanes.

[JasonNJ]

Seems like bowlers in particular just have to have something to complain about.

Conditions too easy
Two handers have advantage
Lefties have advantage

The list could go on and on and on.....

Actually, I think anyone who can bowl better than me should be banned. :p

[jab5325]

Though I personally don't like two-handed bowling at all and think it's a travesty, I applaud guys like Anthony, Belmo and Osku for having the skill and ability to become professionals and succeed at the sport's highest level. Plain and simple.......they're better than me.

It's the USBC that made the game "easy", not two-handers.

[fortheloveofbowling]

During my bowling life it has always been some type of complaint on some of the dominant bowlers. Mark Roth didn't play the game right with his random steps and grip and rip style. Walter Ray Williams could only play straight and only won because of resin. Belmo only wins because of his freakish 2 handed style. These are not my opinions but some people just like to tear down winners. Personally, i don't care for the 2 handed game just because i started bowling in the mid 70's and just prefer the traditional game. The thing to be learned is that however you get the ball down the lane be consistent with what you do. If you have 5 different releases and ball speeds within a game you won't have success.

[got_a_300]

Even though he is a two hander did anyone notice that Anthony
is not a high rev type of bowler say like belmo, and osku as he
has more of an end over end type of roll something like a Chris
Barnes type of roll at least it looked that way to me.

Heck back in my younger days I could put just as many or more
revs on the ball as belmo does with just one hand and using my
thumb in the ball somewhere around the 650-700 range so did
that make me have an unfair advantage over the other bowlers
back then also?

I just wish that I could still crank the ball with that many revs
now days but as old age and health problems have set in over
the last few years the revs are definitely going to keep dropping
along with my average.:(

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say in the years ahead
we will probably see some of the two handers more than likely
go back to just using one hand because of the same facts as I
stated above........old age and health problems.

[JasonNJ]

Video of Anthony Simonsen at 11 years old. He said he's been bowling since 3 and at age 11 was a 220 avg on house patterns and 190 in his PBA experience league. Sounds like a good kid and you can tell he practiced a lot so it's just not about throwing it 2 handed.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=34R1GKMAJ1c

[NewToBowling]

Video of Anthony Simonsen at 11 years old. He said he's been bowling since 3 and at age 11 was a 220 avg on house patterns and 190 in his PBA experience league. Sounds like a good kid and you can tell he practiced a lot so it's just not about throwing it 2 handed.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=34R1GKMAJ1c

Agreed. Some people think these 2 handers just pick it up on a whim and instantly become PBA pros. Anthony had to EARN his #1 seed. Just like Jesper EARNED his seed and championship last week.

Don't worry, there are plenty of house hacks; both traditional and two handed. These are the cream of the crop and my guess is they would still be up there even if they tossed it one handed

[J Anderson]

That was his "normal" heart rate while bowling in the finals on TV at a major tournament. I wonder what his real normal heart rate is. Mine's 65.

"Normal" heart rate, more accurately know as resting heart rate is taken while sitting down. As soon as you stand, both pulse and blood pressure increase. I sincerely doubt if any of us have a heart rate much less than 100 while bowling.

[NewToBowling]

Would love to see Mike Fagan's heart rate. His external body vibe makes it look like he may have a 65 heart rate

[fordman1]

First off what gives you a right to call people house hacks when you are "newtobowling"?
2nd how is it that just because some kid learns how to job the system and create huge carry that he deserves to win a Major tournament? Most have bowled for years to get to the top unlike two handers.

[vdubtx]

First off what gives you a right to call people house hacks when you are "newtobowling"?
2nd how is it that just because some kid learns how to job the system and create huge carry that he deserves to win a Major tournament? Most have bowled for years to get to the top unlike two handers.

Why you mad bro?

http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/icarly/images/7/7b/Memes-haters-gonna-hate-1.gif/revision/latest?cb=20110626133453



I guess you missed the part of how much work Anthony has put into this game. He didn't just start this sport and win a Major.

[fortheloveofbowling]

Did Mark Roth job the system also? He created huge carry when no one else could and is basically credited for the reason any of us hook the ball today that can. I have said it before and will say it again i prefer the traditional game but 2 handed bowling is here to stay and what those guys can do is impressive. I would not encourage someone to bowl that way but i'm also not going to tell them they bowl the wrong way and ridicule them.

[fortheloveofbowling]

Why you mad bro?

http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/icarly/images/7/7b/Memes-haters-gonna-hate-1.gif/revision/latest?cb=20110626133453



I guess you missed the part of how much work Anthony has put into this game. He didn't just start this sport and win a Major.

Fordman will be back soon. He is out on his front porch telling some kids to GET OFF MY LAWN. :)

[fordman1]

At least I am not calling bowlers who have bowled in leagues for longer than the two most recent major winners have been alive HOUSE HACKS! They have only been bowling for 8-9 years yet because they learned how to bowl using two hands they get the carry to win?
Fordman can't see his grass it is covered with snow...
Wasn't the question about what we think about two handers????

[shadd]

First off what gives you a right to call people house hacks when you are "newtobowling"?
2nd how is it that just because some kid learns how to job the system and create huge carry that he deserves to win a Major tournament? Most have bowled for years to get to the top unlike two handers.

If your post had any logic, it could be argued that anybody with a few hundred dollars for balls could win a PBA tournament in no time at all by just putting their off hand on the ball...you can't be serious with this post. can you?!?!

To me, it didn't seem like the other 80% of the finalists (1-handers) had any problem with carry, it was more about making shots, IMO. I'm sure Big Nasty would be very conducive to you telling him he lacked carry with the 700+ series he bowled over his 3 games.

Did Tiger Woods "job the system" when he lapped the field at Augusta when he was 19?!?!?!

This "idea" that some how age allows someone to deserve to win is flat out wrong...the person that wins DESERVES to win.

When reading your post, I envisioned a guy with a cane yelling at kids to get off his lawn...just sayin'.

[vdubtx]

At least I am not calling bowlers who have bowled in leagues for longer than the two most recent major winners have been alive HOUSE HACKS! They have only been bowling for 8-9 years yet because they learned how to bowl using two hands they get the carry to win?
Fordman can't see his grass it is covered with snow...
Wasn't the question about what we think about two handers????

Think you are taking that a little too personally. Struck a nerve I guess.

Certainly talk away about your apparent disgust of 2 handers.

They are operating within all rules and regulations the sport has placed on bowlers. They aren't "jobbing the system" to quote what you said. They are performing on the same conditions as any other bowler in the tournament is.

[fortheloveofbowling]

At least I am not calling bowlers who have bowled in leagues for longer than the two most recent major winners have been alive HOUSE HACKS! They have only been bowling for 8-9 years yet because they learned how to bowl using two hands they get the carry to win?
Fordman can't see his grass it is covered with snow...
Wasn't the question about what we think about two handers????

A house hack is defined as someone who can only hit their home house shot or a house shot in general. I don't think anyone referred to you personally as a house hack and i would not like that and don't consider myself in that way. But having bowled every year in a sanctioned league since 1975 and 2 1/2 times his age i would say compared to Anthony Simonson at this point i am a house hack. My choices are to try to get better or be bitter about bowlers that are my superior and quit and take up lawn bowling or yard darts.

[Amyers]

If your post had any logic, it could be argued that anybody with a few hundred dollars for balls could win a PBA tournament in no time at all by just putting their off hand on the ball...you can't be serious with this post. can you?!?!

No but generating revs with a two handed approach is much easier than with a more traditional style. It brings it's own set of problems but working on the release isn't one of them.


Did Tiger Woods "job the system" when he lapped the field at Augusta when he was 19?!?!?!

No he didn't but I do believe they majorly renovated that course a few years after that to lengthen it due to improvements in club and ball technology. It would be pretty hard to lengthen your average bowling alley.

I really don't have a horse in this discussion I bowl with some pretty talented two handers I wouldn't want my kids to bowl that way but if they like it I really don't care. Playing devils advocate mostly.

[vdubtx]

No but generating revs with a two handed approach is much easier than with a more traditional style. It brings it's own set of problems but working on the release isn't one of them.

Not all 2 handers generate a ton of revs. Anthony is a 2 hander but is not in the league of Belmo, Osku or even Svennson in amount of revs he puts on the ball. If anything, some 1 handers put more revs on it than Anthony does.

[Amyers]

Not all 2 handers generate a ton of revs. Anthony is a 2 hander but is not in the league of Belmo, Osku or even Svennson in amount of revs he puts on the ball. If anything, some 1 handers put more revs on it than Anthony does.

That's true one of my better teammates who bowls two handed also doesn't usually produce huge revs. He can if he needs to but prefers to keep the ball in front of him. He is also a full roller which produces some interesting layouts.

[NewToBowling]

At least I am not calling bowlers who have bowled in leagues for longer than the two most recent major winners have been alive HOUSE HACKS! They have only been bowling for 8-9 years yet because they learned how to bowl using two hands they get the carry to win?
Fordman can't see his grass it is covered with snow...
Wasn't the question about what we think about two handers????

Wasn't calling you a house hack, just using it as a general term. But seems like you have an agenda so I'll let you run with it :)

Also, no one GAVE the title to Anthony Simonsen. He EARNED it. No doubt about it. Him and Jesper have scary good games. They are both talented, not gimmick bowlers.

See post below for explanation of house hack...


A house hack is defined as someone who can only hit their home house shot or a house shot in general. I don't think anyone referred to you personally as a house hack and i would not like that and don't consider myself in that way. But having bowled every year in a sanctioned league since 1975 and 2 1/2 times his age i would say compared to Anthony Simonson at this point i am a house hack. My choices are to try to get better or be bitter about bowlers that are my superior and quit and take up lawn bowling or yard darts.