Think I'll be looking for a new house......

[Jessiewoodard57]

We went to our league last night and was not happy to see our pairs being bowled on. At the meeting before the league first started we had discussed oiling of the lanes and the league and center management agreed on starting 30 minutes later to allow extra time to insure the lanes were oiled and ready for us. We are now 8 weeks into the 16 week league and yes it is just a fun league. We arrived about 30 minutes before league. I asked if the center manager was in and was told she was not. The man running the counter asked why I wanted to see her and I explained our lanes are being used for practice for the other league starting 30 minutes later then us. He informed me that the lanes had been oiled 3 hours earlier and even though they had been being bowled on for the last 3 hours that they would be fine. I said but that was not our agreement. Further I went on to explain to a non bowler that these modern balls both pickup or move the oil around and that by this time 3 hours later they where more then likely dry. His response "well your not a money league" I said well I guess I need to take my money elsewhere when this league is done. Since my money does not seem to be any good I don't plan on ever buying even a drink from the snack bar. After taking to the other teams that where present I had advised them what had happen and 3 teams including mine decided we would not be returning to this center. BTW this same issue had been discussed with center management twice before. I think they need to change the name of the center to "plastic ball city" ...never once had to use my towel on the ball and all I used was my Joyride. Our PSO bowls on the second league and was at the center. Seeing me upset he asked me what was wrong so I explained the problem. He was not surprised as earlier there was an issue with the resident PSO had cussed out a league bowler who was waiting for a table to clear and his bag was blocking the view of 2 ball bags he was trying to sell. I am going to talk to the manager but believe it will be a lost cause. No wonder the sport has such a problem with people like these running the houses!

[Aslan]

I feel ya. While 70% of my decision to leave my old home center was just that I moved further away from it and there are other options closer...30% was the center refusing to oil pre-league. Both of the last two seasons they refused to do it and eventually enough people complained that they reluctantly did it. But 1/3-2/3 of the season was already over.

The pro shop guy didn't want me to leave and kinda hinted that I was leaving because that house was "harder". And that wasn't it at all. The new center I went to (Mondays) is just as hard as that center. And he knows that because during a recent tournament...he showed up at my new Monday center and when he found out I was bowling there was surprised and said something to the effect; "You left our place for THIS place? It's not any easier than our place." Exactly. I don't mind "hard"...I'd bowl in travel leagues if I could find a team. I've bowled in sport leagues...probably less than 2% of bowlers ever do that. But it's gotta be fair. And with the ball technology today being so oil dependent and pattern dependent...you need to at least have some idea what to do. I'm not asking for easier lanes; I'm just asking for consistent conditions week to week. There's enough variability built in to the pair to pair and even lane to lane. We don't need extra variability.

But it all comes down to money. Bowling center owners hate to turn paying customers away when they have 40 open lanes....just because the league wants to bowl on fresh conditions. But that in and of itself is bad decision making...because what happens if the people bowling don't bowl fast enough? Now the league bowlers are coming in and there's nowhere to sit...and the center has to try and move the bowlers to a new pair, etc... Just unnecessary aggravation.

[Blomer]

I don't blame you looking else where. As crappy of a house that I bowl at, they oil the lanes before each league and make sure no one bowls on them at all. Lucky I bowl in one league with the owner. But I see them always oil before any league. Sundays, the bowl right before as well. If they didn't I would go else where.

[Jessiewoodard57]

Bowlers at our current house are leaving in droves with condition of the lanes being the main reason. when we have as much money in our equipment as we do who wants to bowl a league where all you can use is plastic or urethane. The House I am looking at now boasts the largest league in the area 38 teams of 4. My PSO and his wife are on one of the teams hence why he suggested the house to me. its 14 more miles to get there but oh well for better treatment I'll drive an hour instead of the 40 minutes I do now.

[vdubtx]

But it all comes down to money. Bowling center owners hate to turn paying customers away when they have 40 open lanes....just because the league wants to bowl on fresh conditions.

This is what it comes down to. My Tuesday league doesn't oil just before league and more times than not has people bowling on it before we start league. I have given up on being upset about it as that is the way the business works. They won't turn away business.

IN this same house, 2 of the highest money leagues in the area bowl at 9-930 or so at night and don't bowl on fresh conditions. They bowl after the early 6-630 league finishes. Still plenty of lane to bowl on after one league has gone through. Have to learn to adjust and attack the lanes in a different way than the fresh.

In the end, bowling on not fresh lanes, will make you a better bowler. It has me. :cool:

[Aslan]

I kind've agree vdubtx...but not a 'strong' agreement.

I think bowling on varying conditions tests your versatility more than anything. Can you play outside and in? Can you play inside near the left gutter? Do you have 2-3 different speeds? 2-5 different hand positions (release)? Do you have a decent sized arsenal to work with? All of these things are much more important if you come into a house and are given a grab bag of lane conditions.

The downside of that is most bowlers don't have that versatility. Most bowlers are still learning and trying to figure out the sport. And when you're learning, you don't want to change too many variables at once. I've said before that new bowlers should just get one ball and on fresh conditions learn how to bowl, work on the physical game, and then when you've gotten consistent enough...maybe start slowly expanding your arsenal...or maybe try a different house...learn to adapt. But to put a new bowler in a house where ya never know what you'll get...thats a tough way to learn how to bowl. IMO

[Jessiewoodard57]

I kind've agree vdubtx...but not a 'strong' agreement.

I think bowling on varying conditions tests your versatility more than anything. Can you play outside and in? Can you play inside near the left gutter? Do you have 2-3 different speeds? 2-5 different hand positions (release)? Do you have a decent sized arsenal to work with? All of these things are much more important if you come into a house and are given a grab bag of lane conditions.

The downside of that is most bowlers don't have that versatility. Most bowlers are still learning and trying to figure out the sport. And when you're learning, you don't want to change too many variables at once. I've said before that new bowlers should just get one ball and on fresh conditions learn how to bowl, work on the physical game, and then when you've gotten consistent enough...maybe start slowly expanding your arsenal...or maybe try a different house...learn to adapt. But to put a new bowler in a house where ya never know what you'll get...thats a tough way to learn how to bowl. IMO

Guys the biggest reason many of us are moving is treatment by the staff of the house. We are tired of being treated like we are insignificant. When the league makes a deal and then the house reneges on the deal two seasons in a roll it gets old. Most of the guys have 2 balls one being their spare ball. If you look at my signature you'll see I do have a big choice on what to bring to the lanes. Usually my haywire stays home due to lack of oil but the rest comes to the lanes with me. Lately I have been limited to just my Joyride because of the dry lanes. I don't have a lot of speed due to no approach with a wheel chair so all the speed I do have is in my arm around 9.5 to 10.5 MPH. in the past 2 years many times I have had to resort to my plastic Hammer taboo spare ball just to stay right of center. Actually I bowled my high game 235 at this house on a bone dry pair of lanes using a Brunswick Rhino gold. I will still bowl here from time to time because I have friends here I just will move my league endeavors to this new house that my PSO suggested ...I will add that a lot depends on how I am treated Monday when I talk face to face with the center manager

[Amyers]

Guys the biggest reason many of us are moving is treatment by the staff of the house. We are tired of being treated like we are insignificant. When the league makes a deal and then the house reneges on the deal two seasons in a roll it gets old. Most of the guys have 2 balls one being their spare ball. If you look at my signature you'll see I do have a big choice on what to bring to the lanes. Usually my haywire stays home due to lack of oil but the rest comes to the lanes with me. Lately I have been limited to just my Joyride because of the dry lanes. I don't have a lot of speed due to no approach with a wheel chair so all the speed I do have is in my arm around 9.5 to 10.5 MPH. in the past 2 years many times I have had to resort to my plastic Hammer taboo spare ball just to stay right of center. Actually I bowled my high game 235 at this house on a bone dry pair of lanes using a Brunswick Rhino gold. I will still bowl here from time to time because I have friends here I just will move my league endeavors to this new house that my PSO suggested ...I will add that a lot depends on how I am treated Monday when I talk face to face with the center manager

The major point I have a problem with is that the house agreed to provide fresh lanes and then are not. If they would have told you from the beginning that we can't re-oil before league then it's on you. From what I have understood here the house specifically agreed to provide fresh lanes and are not doing it. I doubt the house would let you bowl long if you decided to only pay half the lineage. If you make an agreement stick to it. If they didn't want to do it anymore they should have provided the service until the end of the season and then told them if the league comes back we won't be providing fresh conditions.

[Jessiewoodard57]

The major point I have a problem with is that the house agreed to provide fresh lanes and then are not. If they would have told you from the beginning that we can't re-oil before league then it's on you. From what I have understood here the house specifically agreed to provide fresh lanes and are not doing it. I doubt the house would let you bowl long if you decided to only pay half the lineage. If you make an agreement stick to it. If they didn't want to do it anymore they should have provided the service until the end of the season and then told them if the league comes back we won't be providing fresh conditions.

That is the exact deal breaker for the league and why we are leaving. Two seasons in a row they have done this to us.

[mc_runner]

Yeah, I agree. Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice and you're (and your money) walking.

[Cajun]

Guess Im lucky to be at a House that oils before every league.

[Jessiewoodard57]

This week only 4 teams left and 2 of us are only there to complete our commitment to the league and after that the Tuesday trio league will be no more. I spoke with the manager of the house and was treated like an Idiot. I was told that oil does not ware off lanes in a few hours no matter how games are played on them or what bowling balls are used. Her quote "They just do not break down and I am afraid you are listening to the wrong crowd about oil ware" Short end of the story 6 weeks and counting.

[Amyers]

This week only 4 teams left and 2 of us are only there to complete our commitment to the league and after that the Tuesday trio league will be no more. I spoke with the manager of the house and was treated like an Idiot. I was told that oil does not ware off lanes in a few hours no matter how games are played on them or what bowling balls are used. Her quote "They just do not break down and I am afraid you are listening to the wrong crowd about oil ware" Short end of the story 6 weeks and counting.

What does or does not happen with the oil is irrelevant. They had an agreement to provide fresh conditions for your league which they are not. Weather the center manager believes about how oil wears makes no difference they are not living up to their agreement. That's just sad.

[Jessiewoodard57]

I can understand what the issue really is . A few weeks after your league started she added 2 more leagues that run one right after the other and finish up shortly before we start. She fixed that by moving us to the left end of the house that should provide enough time to get our lanes ready but something seems to always pop up that's more important. The thing that annoys me about the move is whomever is on 1 and 2 has to deal the mechanic walking out the door just as you are about to release the ball.(the door jam buts to the side of lane 1) Sad to say I'm looking forward to moving the only thing I will miss is some of the friends I will leave behind. I wish she would just be true to her word.

[ep1977]

It's a huge problem with the sport the way most houses are run. They care a lot more about birthday parties. Cosmic bowling, and families paying $6 a game than about there league bowlers!

[NewToBowling]

My place (AMF owned) does care about league bowlers even though are very busy with open bowlers. When I go in and practice and even if they are 70-80% capacity they will give me two lanes. They go the extra mile for league bowlers. We get fresh oil and the shot is consistent. Ball returns, pit, approach are all clean. My balls don't have any gouges and show minimal scratches. Balls aren't overly dirty after league play.

[Tampabaybob]

Jessie..... I'm sure that your league, just as all leagues do, had to sign a contract. That contract makes it binding that the league MUST pay for every bowler, whether they bowl or not. That is a binding agreement. It doesn't matter if there's nothing written in the contract about them saying you would bowl every week on fresh oil. That can be construed as a Gentlemans agreement AND that manager needs to abide by that.

I used to manage a house up north and I would NEVER have considered doing that to one of my leagues. Talk to the guy, see how he reacts, and if he gets pissy, find out who the owners are and contact them with all the information. Sounds like they need a Manager that know what he's doing.
Good Luck let us know what happens in a follow up.

Bob

[Jessiewoodard57]

Bob, I'm giving them another chance. they just changed THS to a 40 ft pattern (was 38 ft) that many of us like. Between the pattern and some adjustments to surfaces of my equipment scores are looking up.