pin up vs. pin down

[edpup316]

I have noticed a tendency with my equipment when drilled pin up vs pin down. I have two Motiv Forzas. On a my normal house shot, i normally play standing 27, target 15 at arrows and break point is 7 or 8 with the PIN UP Forza. Its my understand that when a ball is drilled pin down its suppose to use it energy early and the shape will be more smother and rainbow like. When i try to throw the PIN DOWN Forza on the same line i get no movement. Im not expecting it to get out to the 7 board and snap back in cause obviously that not why i drilled it pin down. But it just slides and hits the 3-6.

I guess what im getting at is, are pin under balls best playing narrow or straighters angels? Is there a certain lane condition (i.e. long & heavy ) that it generally preforms better on?

[Blomer]

I'm probably totally wrong, but my understanding is pin down has the ball start reacting sooner so it will hook sooner where as pin up will have the ball go down farther before hooking. Sooner in my eyes will be better as its more aggressive and better for more,oil?

[RobLV1]

The old pin up makes the ball go longer and pin down hooks earlier is based on pre-modern balls when the only consideration in drilling was the static weights; finger weight vs. thumb weight. Today, pin up balls tend to transition more quickly yielding a more angular reaction, while pin down balls tend to transition more slowly, yielding a smoother curving reaction. The pin position is only one factor however. The dual angle drilling system uses three numbers: the drilling angle, the pin to PAP distance, and the angle to the VAL. Moving the pin down generally increases the angle to the VAL which accounts for the smoother transition, but it may also affect the drilling angle and the pin to PAP distance. As all three contribute to overall ball motion, it's pretty hard to make generalized statements about pin up vs. pin down on modern bowling balls.

[Hot_pocket]

The old pin up makes the ball go longer and pin down hooks earlier is based on pre-modern balls when the only consideration in drilling was the static weights; finger weight vs. thumb weight. Today, pin up balls tend to transition more quickly yielding a more angular reaction, while pin down balls tend to transition more slowly, yielding a smoother curving reaction. The pin position is only one factor however. The dual angle drilling system uses three numbers: the drilling angle, the pin to PAP distance, and the angle to the VAL. Moving the pin down generally increases the angle to the VAL which accounts for the smoother transition, but it may also affect the drilling angle and the pin to PAP distance. As all three contribute to overall ball motion, it's pretty hard to make generalized statements about pin up vs. pin down on modern bowling balls.

So rob would this mean a ball drilled pin down but to can burn up its energy and never turn over? I have a motiv primal rage drilled to be as aggressive as possible and it is literally one of the weakest balls I have ever owned. I had the same exact problem edpup has, where it would skid out.

[Stormed1]

Your Primal. Rage is most likely drilled too aggressive and is burning up. Many time pin down balls are drilled with the cg swung out quite a bit which narrows the drill angle. This causes the ball to enter the hook phase too soon and will result in the ball rolling out. I recently re-drilled a ball for a customer who's original layout ended up being 30x4x70 I re-drilled it 60x4x70 and now it gets down the lane and finishes with a nice hard arc to the pocket

[Mike White]

Your Primal. Rage is most likely drilled too aggressive and is burning up. Many time pin down balls are drilled with the cg swung out quite a bit which narrows the drill angle. This causes the ball to enter the hook phase too soon and will result in the ball rolling out. I recently re-drilled a ball for a customer who's original layout ended up being 30x4x70 I re-drilled it 60x4x70 and now it gets down the lane and finishes with a nice hard arc to the pocket

The location of the CG has NOTHING to do with the drill angle.

If the ball is symmetrical, the drill angle is between the PAP, PIN, and Thumb.

To know for sure what drill angle you achieved post drilling, you need a determinator to identify the MB.

If the ball is asymmetrical, the drill angle is between the PAP, PIN, and MB.

Again, a determinator is needed to identify the post drilled MB


Also, don't confuse a ball that hooks too soon, with a ball that rolls too soon.

Layouts don't effect when a ball begins to hook.

Coverstock, surface prep, player's release, and where on the lane (relative to the oil pattern) the shot is made effects the start of the hook phase.

PAP RG, Coverstock, surface prep, player's release, and where on the lane the shot is made will have an effect on how long after the ball begins to hook, will it stop hooking and begin to roll.

If a ball is "burning up" it is entering the roll phase before the ball's path is in line with the pocket.