Ready to quit at this point!

[foreverincamo]

Sorry for going on about this slump but it won't quit. Shot my lowest series in two years. 524. Shot 217 the last game to get there. Went with a ball I hadn't used in a long time, my Brunswick Melee Cross. Symmetrical pin-up ball with high flare and it just drove me nuts. Wet-dry on the fresh. Inside of 10 it sailed past the headpin. Outside of 10 it turned left like it was kicked. I gave it 8 frames and switched to my Brunswick Rhino Gold Vintage. Better to the pocket but no carry. One strike in game two. Go 146, 162.
Switched to my DV8 Marauder Mutiny that I use as a spare ball. 4000 grit with polish. Shoot 217. Never missed the pocket. Two 10 pins, two 4 pins, one super solid 8 pin. No opens. One double. So I'm going to drill up another Marauder Mutiny this weekend and see what happens next week.

[RobLV1]

Sorry for going on about this slump but it won't quit. Shot my lowest series in two years. 524. Shot 217 the last game to get there. Went with a ball I hadn't used in a long time, my Brunswick Melee Cross. Symmetrical pin-up ball with high flare and it just drove me nuts. Wet-dry on the fresh. Inside of 10 it sailed past the headpin. Outside of 10 it turned left like it was kicked. I gave it 8 frames and switched to my Brunswick Rhino Gold Vintage. Better to the pocket but no carry. One strike in game two. Go 146, 162.
Switched to my DV8 Marauder Mutiny that I use as a spare ball. 4000 grit with polish. Shoot 217. Never missed the pocket. Two 10 pins, two 4 pins, one super solid 8 pin. No opens. One double. So I'm going to drill up another Marauder Mutiny this weekend and see what happens next week.

I've struggled this entire season. I'm averaging about 20 pins lower than last year. I've been working with a new coach for about two months, and things are starting to come around. What have you done to get out of your slump other than threatening to quit and talking about your bowling balls.? Just asking.

[Amyers]

I've been there man and unfortunately I've had stretches of it to last 6 months. If you have access to a coach or maybe your PSO they might be able to help you figure out what's going on. I find when I enter one of these protracted periods of struggling it's not just one thing. It's usually 2 or 3 small things working together. The one thing I've found to consistently help is slow everything down and make sure the timing is right. Good luck getting through it.

[Hot_pocket]

its practically golf season if your looking for another sport to be frustrated at. lol I'm ready for the season to end myself. The whole first part of my season I was doing horrible couldn't get my mechanics right to save my life. now it ain't so bad but still ready to play golf.

[Amyers]

I never understand how bowlers take the summer off I have to bowl year round. I understand the outside activity part of it but just can't so without the bowling

[vdubtx]

I take summers off from leagues, but not from my game. Summer is time to tweak and improve areas via practice.

I don't see quitting due to a slump though. We all go through them, heck I have been in one also since December.

[jab5325]

Sorry for going on about this slump but it won't quit. Shot my lowest series in two years. 524. Shot 217 the last game to get there. Went with a ball I hadn't used in a long time, my Brunswick Melee Cross. Symmetrical pin-up ball with high flare and it just drove me nuts. Wet-dry on the fresh. Inside of 10 it sailed past the headpin. Outside of 10 it turned left like it was kicked. I gave it 8 frames and switched to my Brunswick Rhino Gold Vintage. Better to the pocket but no carry. One strike in game two. Go 146, 162.
Switched to my DV8 Marauder Mutiny that I use as a spare ball. 4000 grit with polish. Shoot 217. Never missed the pocket. Two 10 pins, two 4 pins, one super solid 8 pin. No opens. One double. So I'm going to drill up another Marauder Mutiny this weekend and see what happens next week.

I feel you, man.

I shot 257 the first game Wednesday night. I started to lose my line in the 8th frame and started moving around. First ball of game 2 with the Rocket was a 4-7-10 that came up heavy, so I decided that was "it" for the Rocket. Once again, I proceeded to go through my ENTIRE arsenal and only got 3 strikes in the last two games. I never hit 160 the rest of the night, and backed into a 560-something series. It was terrible.

[foreverincamo]

I've practiced using video to compare with older videos. I've cleaned all my equipment. I switched to a four-step approach that uses a hinged push-away instead of my traditional 5-step with old-school push-away. I've watched hours of video of the pros and other tournaments.
It's just strange how I've lost what worked. I was using my strongest ball to start and gradually went weaker as the night progressed. But the last six weeks that hasn't worked. It almost like there's oil between 10 and 30 all the way to the pins, and sand outside of 10. I watched both teams last night and everyone's ball would just grab outside of 10 at around 25 feet, hook and die. Lots of 10 pins.
My weakest ball has come thru in the last game the last three weeks but it isn't strong enough on the fresh. That's why I'm getting the same ball drilled this weekend but just a different layout.

[Aslan]

Good job on the 217 though.

[Amyers]

I've practiced using video to compare with older videos. I've cleaned all my equipment. I switched to a four-step approach that uses a hinged push-away instead of my traditional 5-step with old-school push-away. I've watched hours of video of the pros and other tournaments.
It's just strange how I've lost what worked. I was using my strongest ball to start and gradually went weaker as the night progressed. But the last six weeks that hasn't worked. It almost like there's oil between 10 and 30 all the way to the pins, and sand outside of 10. I watched both teams last night and everyone's ball would just grab outside of 10 at around 25 feet, hook and die. Lots of 10 pins.
My weakest ball has come thru in the last game the last three weeks but it isn't strong enough on the fresh. That's why I'm getting the same ball drilled this weekend but just a different layout.

What happen when you move inside and throw the ball out? You've got to move to where the oil is if it's hooking at 25 feet across 10 then make sure the balls not at 10 at 20 feet. if they are playing that way I typically move in to about 15 and try to get the ball to about 7 or 8 at the break point.

[JasonNJ]

Personally I find the best thing to break out of a slump is to go back to basics and do what you do best. I think at this point, you've tweaked so many things and you're probably thinking about everything as you're throwing the ball and that is making you tight.

I say go practice clear your mind and just work on timing and having a relaxed swing. You know how to bowl, you just need to remember how to do it.

[foreverincamo]

Amyers, it didn't make much difference last night. As soon as the ball crossed 10, it hooked. Could have been at 25,35,or 45 feet. Everything hooked like it hit sand then died a miserable death.

[foreverincamo]

Dropped a new "old stock " ball off to my PSO, who I bowled against last night. He waited until today to tell me that I wasn't following thru about 80% of the time, which was leading to the wet/dry reaction. No follow thru, acted wet. Follow thru, the ball hooked. Reacted to the over hook by not following thru again, ball slid thru the break point.
So I looked at video footage from last week and compared it to footage from 6 months ago, and he was right. Last week my follow thru ended at my waist. 6 months ago I followed thru over my head. I'm missing half of my follow thru 80% of the time. My PSO apologized for not saying anything during league, but they wanted to win. Can't blame him there.

[mc_runner]

Follow through... seems a lot of the time it's the first thing that "goes" when something is off. When I don't follow through I deflect and leave a ton of 10 pins, cause I'm forcing hte ball to the line I want. At least the PSO told you what you were doing though, obviously he noticed the struggle.

[RobLV1]

Look at the cause, rather than the result (this is why it's a good idea to consult a competent coach). Your follow-through is gone, but WHY is it gone? Many times a lack of follow-through is the result of a timing issue. PLEASE consult a coach. Regardless of what you've been led to believe, bowling is rarely a fix-it-yourself sport.

[Mike White]

Look at the cause, rather than the result (this is why it's a good idea to consult a competent coach). Your follow-through is gone, but WHY is it gone? Many times a lack of follow-through is the result of a timing issue. PLEASE consult a coach. Regardless of what you've been led to believe, bowling is rarely a fix-it-yourself sport.

Somebody following the advice to not lift the ball could lead to a lack of follow thru.

How come you don't include a disclaimer on your post about being a coach for money, and your recommending a person see a coach is potentially a conflict of interest.

The problem with coaching, and teaching in general is, things are a fix-it-yourself activity.

The coach / teacher can tell you what to try, but the bowler has to fix it.

If a person doesn't improve, it could either be lack of effort, or bad advice.

Good luck getting a coach / teacher to take responsibility for bad advice.

[foreverincamo]

I'm going to practice tomorrow with the Mrs. Just going to try to make sure I follow thru and see what the ball reaction is like. If it doesn't help I have a few coaches I can call and get help.

[NewToBowling]

Didn't you say Fred Borden was the owner of your home lanes?

[RobLV1]

Somebody following the advice to not lift the ball could lead to a lack of follow thru.

How come you don't include a disclaimer on your post about being a coach for money, and your recommending a person see a coach is potentially a conflict of interest.

The problem with coaching, and teaching in general is, things are a fix-it-yourself activity.

The coach / teacher can tell you what to try, but the bowler has to fix it.

If a person doesn't improve, it could either be lack of effort, or bad advice.

Good luck getting a coach / teacher to take responsibility for bad advice.

First off, Mike, I rarely give lessons. Most of my coaching efforts go to writing for BTM and other publications. Do you really think that advising someone not to seek a qualified coach when they are in a slump is good advice, or do you think that the hard-on you have for me justifies taking down others who are honestly asking for help?

[foreverincamo]

New-To-Bowling, Fred does own one of the places I practice, but he winters in Florida and isn't due back until next month.
RonLV1, don't let him get to you. I appreciate your advice.

[Amyers]

Dropped a new "old stock " ball off to my PSO, who I bowled against last night. He waited until today to tell me that I wasn't following thru about 80% of the time, which was leading to the wet/dry reaction. No follow thru, acted wet. Follow thru, the ball hooked. Reacted to the over hook by not following thru again, ball slid thru the break point.
So I looked at video footage from last week and compared it to footage from 6 months ago, and he was right. Last week my follow thru ended at my waist. 6 months ago I followed thru over my head. I'm missing half of my follow thru 80% of the time. My PSO apologized for not saying anything during league, but they wanted to win. Can't blame him there.

Lack of follow through could be part of the problem but usually when I'm not getting through the ball good I see a loss of good hit (more 7 and 10 pins) but it really doesn't cause what you're describing for me at least.

[foreverincamo]

When you don't follow thru on one shot and go light, then move right and follow thru harder than before and watch the shot go heavy, and think it's the ball.....you get what I had going for six weeks. Practiced this past Sunday and had games of 244,235,258,300,252,267. Followed thru so hard sometimes I hit myself on top of my head. But I scored well.

[Amyers]

Lol that's true. Glad to hear you found a solution

[Aslan]

Somebody following the advice to not lift the ball could lead to a lack of follow thru.

See....this is the MWhite paradox that I appreciate....but tends to annoy the general public at large.

What you started with...is actually interesting. I'll explain why in a minute.

Unfortunately...you ended by attacking Rob for offering advice that 98% of people would offer...for no apparent reason that the Hatfield and McCoy battle between you two. And the unfortunate thing is...even though you're a LOT smarter than people give you credit for...your message was lost...because people read two sentences in and think, "here we go again"?

See, I LIKE you...because you're like me. You CARE, you're intelligent, and you like to debate. That rubs people the wrong way...but it makes us interesting. There's nothing wrong with that. Unfortunately, there's a LOT of people...especially as people get older...that get easily offended...which is a horrible trait to have on the internet. And because most people on this site only know us from the site...they don't have the luxury of truly "understanding" us. Almost unanimously....what I hear from people that meet me in person is, "wow, you're so much nicer in person than I thought you'd be." Duh. Of course I am. If I were as snarky and abrasive all the time as I am when I'm trying to make a point on the internet....it would be exhausting and I'd be a narcicistic sociopath. Iceman, if it weren't for his crazily good health, probably would have had a heart attack when I showed up to the Aslan vs. Iceman Challenge with a birthday cake for him.

Now...as to your point. I used to loft the ball. We both know why. Like Mika, I started bowling on lanes with terrible wooden heads that were difficult to bowl on...as you know very well.

Over time, I stopped lofting the ball...because on synthetics...I couldn't get any ball movement by tossing it 15ft at 20mph.

I also, to help break this habit, started targeting the dots rather than the arrows...

It turns out....while I broke the lofting habit...and can now play well on synthetics...I realized targeting the dots was hurting my follow-through. Now, I had to really struggle and work hard to figure that out. But when I had a lesson with Mark Baker recently, he talked to me about "launch angle". Once I fixed my "launch angle"...I was striking at WILL! To quote Donald Trump, "I was getting bored with winning." I was actually looking for a clock in the bowling alley...because the lesson was boring...because I was striking, striking, striking.

So, the moral of the story, for the OP...is:
1) Follow-through is important...look into launch angle...consult a coach or look at stuff on the internet...it really, really helped my game.
2) Coaching is important. I don't blame my first coach for teaching me to loft. I don't blame my current coach or Rob for breaking me of the habit of lofting. They both were necessary to improve my game.

But, yes, sometimes you break one habit and then have to "re-calibrate". I need to get LOWER...so I can still have an optimum launch angle without tossing the ball 15-20ft landing it on the dots. Being 5'11" with a questionable knee...I have to really work on getting lower...better balance...better timing. It's where guys like Norm and Parker and PDW....their height is actually an ADVANTAGE...their already low.

Based on what you're saying...try to get a little lower and follow-through...improve the launch angle...it worked for me. If it doesn't work...don't do it and consult a coach or try something else. I'm not a coach...I just play one on the internet.

[Aslan]

Practiced this past Sunday and had games of 244,235,258,300,252,267.

Were you practicing in Missouri?

Wow...I should have read that before I posted. Do nothing different...ever. That looks like my "career best" line. Don't invest in coaching, invest in a PBA card.

[foreverincamo]

I'm working on getting my PBA card once I turn 50. I do have a few coaches I use. I still have a lot to learn for that level of play.

[Mike White]

See....this is the MWhite paradox that I appreciate....but tends to annoy the general public at large.

What you started with...is actually interesting. I'll explain why in a minute.

Unfortunately...you ended by attacking Rob for offering advice that 98% of people would offer...for no apparent reason that the Hatfield and McCoy battle between you two. And the unfortunate thing is...even though you're a LOT smarter than people give you credit for...your message was lost...because people read two sentences in and think, "here we go again"?

See, I LIKE you...because you're like me. You CARE, you're intelligent, and you like to debate. That rubs people the wrong way...but it makes us interesting. There's nothing wrong with that. Unfortunately, there's a LOT of people...especially as people get older...that get easily offended...which is a horrible trait to have on the internet. And because most people on this site only know us from the site...they don't have the luxury of truly "understanding" us. Almost unanimously....what I hear from people that meet me in person is, "wow, you're so much nicer in person than I thought you'd be." Duh. Of course I am. If I were as snarky and abrasive all the time as I am when I'm trying to make a point on the internet....it would be exhausting and I'd be a narcicistic sociopath. Iceman, if it weren't for his crazily good health, probably would have had a heart attack when I showed up to the Aslan vs. Iceman Challenge with a birthday cake for him.

Now...as to your point. I used to loft the ball. We both know why. Like Mika, I started bowling on lanes with terrible wooden heads that were difficult to bowl on...as you know very well.

Over time, I stopped lofting the ball...because on synthetics...I couldn't get any ball movement by tossing it 15ft at 20mph.

I also, to help break this habit, started targeting the dots rather than the arrows...

It turns out....while I broke the lofting habit...and can now play well on synthetics...I realized targeting the dots was hurting my follow-through. Now, I had to really struggle and work hard to figure that out. But when I had a lesson with Mark Baker recently, he talked to me about "launch angle". Once I fixed my "launch angle"...I was striking at WILL! To quote Donald Trump, "I was getting bored with winning." I was actually looking for a clock in the bowling alley...because the lesson was boring...because I was striking, striking, striking.

So, the moral of the story, for the OP...is:
1) Follow-through is important...look into launch angle...consult a coach or look at stuff on the internet...it really, really helped my game.
2) Coaching is important. I don't blame my first coach for teaching me to loft. I don't blame my current coach or Rob for breaking me of the habit of lofting. They both were necessary to improve my game.

But, yes, sometimes you break one habit and then have to "re-calibrate". I need to get LOWER...so I can still have an optimum launch angle without tossing the ball 15-20ft landing it on the dots. Being 5'11" with a questionable knee...I have to really work on getting lower...better balance...better timing. It's where guys like Norm and Parker and PDW....their height is actually an ADVANTAGE...their already low.

Based on what you're saying...try to get a little lower and follow-through...improve the launch angle...it worked for me. If it doesn't work...don't do it and consult a coach or try something else. I'm not a coach...I just play one on the internet.


I think you have have misunderstood what Mark was meaning by launch angle.

It has no connection to loft.

Lauch angle is related to the direction the ball travels (left to right vs right to left) when you release it, not up vs down.

If you release the ball parallel to the boards, you have a 0 degree launch angle.

If you release the ball on the 1 board, and throw it straight at the pocket, you have a positive launch angle of about 1.25 degrees.

http://bowlingknowledge.info/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=253

[Amyers]

See....this is the MWhite paradox that I appreciate....but tends to annoy the general public at large.

And because most people on this site only know us from the site...they don't have the luxury of truly "understanding" us. Almost unanimously....what I hear from people that meet me in person is, "wow, you're so much nicer in person than I thought you'd be." Duh. Of course I am. If I were as snarky and abrasive all the time as I am when I'm trying to make a point on the internet....it would be exhausting and I'd be a narcicistic sociopath. Iceman, if it weren't for his crazily good health, probably would have had a heart attack when I showed up to the Aslan vs. Iceman Challenge with a birthday cake for him.

.

The funny thing is I think I'm actually less snarky and abrasive on here than I am in real life.

[Aslan]

I think you have have misunderstood what Mark was meaning by launch angle.

I don't think so. But I'll ask him when I see him in April to better explain what he meant. I "believe" he was talking about launch angle in terms of loft.

Some bowlers "loft"...which creates an up and down arc. Some bowlers drop the ball, or don't follow through...and their balls make the hard 'slam' into the lane.

I 'believe' it also depends on whether you come through the ball or up the side. Hard to bring your fingers 'through' the ball without following through.

But I'll check and try to remember to post when I get the answer.

[Langdoj]

I don't think so. But I'll ask him when I see him in April to better explain what he meant. I "believe" he was talking about launch angle in terms of loft.

Some bowlers "loft"...which creates an up and down arc. Some bowlers drop the ball, or don't follow through...and their balls make the hard 'slam' into the lane.

I 'believe' it also depends on whether you come through the ball or up the side. Hard to bring your fingers 'through' the ball without following through.

But I'll check and try to remember to post when I get the answer.

If your coach was speaking about loft he was using the wrong term if he said launch angle. Mike's explanation of launch angle is correct and the only one I have ever heard being used for defining launch angle

[Amyers]

If your coach was speaking about loft he was using the wrong term if he said launch angle. Mike's explanation of launch angle is correct and the only one I have ever heard being used for defining launch angle

I agree with Mwhite here that's the explanation I've always heard too

[Aslan]

But I'll check and try to remember to post when I get the answer.

I like quoting myself.