Please help

[LTShintsides]

Hey guys, I'm new to the forum and could use a little help with my game.

I finally broke down and purchased my first bowling ball after years of using either house balls or my step dads old plastic Columbia 300 yellow dot. I knew that the transition was going to be difficult because of the amount of hook I was going to get from a reactive ball in comparison to the plastics I've been using. Since I knew it was going to be a much bigger hook I tried to minimize the amount by purchasing a low flare solid in hopes I could keep my general approach position and aiming arrow but I did have to modify a bit.

When I was bowling with plastic I had an average of 183 but now I'm averaging about a 125 because I'm so inconsistent. I've done hours of reading and researching approach, release, and finish position and have practiced doing things better and getting more consistent results but I think now because of all the stuff I learned I'm making the game too hard on myself by thinking too much at the start of my approach. I've always felt like I've had a pretty good approach and have gotten lots of compliments on it from others.

First thing I wanna get help with is why the hell is my hip hurting so bad after bowling? If I bowl three games I can hardly walk for the next 3-5 hours and then it's gone but it's unbearable pain. I've read that it could be falling off my shot or planting my slide foot instead of sliding with it so I've made a good effort to be more balanced in my finish position and sliding correctly but it hasn't helped. Pain starts about the 5th frame and gets worse the more I bowl. I never had this pain bowling with plastic balls so something in my game has changed which is probably the reason my consistency has been affected as well.

When it comes to accuracy the problem I'm having is the amount of hook my ball is getting. I know that lane conditions, speed, rev rate all effect this but I feel like I have a pretty consistent approach and release and have always hit in the pocket with plastic balls. Now I'll throw 2-3 strikes in a row right in the pocket and then throw a ball and it will not only go Brooklyn but it will sometimes hook so much it will hit the 7 pin. With plastic I might go Brooklyn on a fluke every 20th ball i'd throw. I've always felt like I was a pretty accurate bowler but recently I've been all over the place trying to get comfortable with this ball.

I'd also like to get some opinions on what style of bowler you think I am, I don't know enough about the game to classify my style as anything. I am a two finger bowler but I like to believe I'm not the typical two finger bowler. I took a lot of time combining the fundamentals I was taught about bowling with my two finger release and like to think that I have a better than average approach, release and follow through but I could be wrong and if so then tell me, I'm good with criticism. I don't really consider myself as a high rev cranker style, I feel like my rev rate is medium but I could be way off. I just know that my brother hooks about twice as Much as I do and that's what I go off of. The differences I see between me and the typical two finger bowlers is that my release is more like a conventional hook bowler (I think) whereas other two finger bowlers I've seen twist their hand all the way over the top of the ball and try to get as many revs and as much hook as possible.

If I had to guess what I'm doing wrong when it comes to the amount of hook I'd say that when it hooks across the lane I'm probably muscling the ball from my back swing to my release instead of letting gravity do the work but it seems if that were the case that id be getting more ball speed and less hook as a result. My wrist turn and the amount of revs I put on the ball I feel like is always the same, I've never changed a thing when it comes to that, but lately I've noticed that where I release the ball has been pretty inconsistent, sometimes I'm standing straight up on release and sometimes I'm down over the ball like I'm suppose to be, sometimes my ball takes a hard bounce after release but most times it sets down very nice like I want. I feel like when I'm standing tall on release by accident is when I get the bounce but I'm not sure.

I've got a few videos below, I know it's probably gonna be hard to identify the root problem just watching me roll three balls but maybe you'll see something that's out of whack that I'm missing. I'll post more videos when I go next if they're needed so you can see more of what my inconsistencies may be in my approach and release.

How I line up a strike shot: I stand with my right foot at about the 20 board and I throw over the 15 board, when I bowled plastic I lined up on the 15 and threw over the ten board so with the new ball I moved 5 boards left. Now depending on lane condition I move right or left 3-4 boards.

tl/dr? Summary: inconsistent amount of hook, hip pain, what style of bowler would you say I am, any tips I'd appreciate!

https://youtu.be/YcU8UAyso9E
https://youtu.be/_8VBE6h-hVc
https://youtu.be/Me8Z7CrWfGk

[Amyers]

I'm not an expert and other may have better comments than me but it looks like to me you raise your ball at the start of the approach which is making you late in the swing and causing your foot to plant at the end you can almost see your hip flexing inward as you release.

I would suggest starting with the ball up slightly higher and let it move forward but not up as you start this should help correct your timing. Try adding some knee bend and between the two it should help the problems your having.

[JasonNJ]

I'm guessing it is your left hip that is hurting because to me it looks like when you plant your slide foot there looks to be very little knee bend and that all your weight is landing on your hip.

Also your form looks pretty good but it is pretty unconventional since you are a thumbless bowler. I know a lot of traditionalist would hate me saying this but I think you could easily convert to a 2 handed style ala Belmo because your form reminds me of a 2 handed style more than a conventional one handed.

If you stay with your style, take a look at Tom Daugherty. He's a two finger bowler and he has a lot more spine tilt and knee bend.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2wDwRLdcuo0

[LTShintsides]

Thanks guys, I can see what you're saying about the knee bend, I do need to work on that a bit and my slide in those vids is very short. Those vids were taken during a scotch doubles tournament with my fiancé so I didn't get many opportunities to bowl first and get a lot of footage.

I'll try out the ball higher a bit in my approach as well to see if it helps.

Tom Daughtry does have a nice approach, maybe I'll try and bend a bit more like he does and see if that may naturally help things come together better. At this point I'm willing to try anything to get my game back, I was expecting it to get much better since having a ball fitted properly and getting to use a ball I know every time I bowl and I know I'll get back and better than I was, it's just been an extremely slow and difficult process this first month of bowling with it.

[Mike White]

Hey guys, I'm new to the forum and could use a little help with my game.



It looks to me that your pain comes from the fact that knowing the ball is going to hook a lot, you put a lot of effort into getting the ball to go well out to the right on the lane.

The problem with that is (other than the pain) you are a long way from the help that most bowlers take advantage of, and you probably were also while using the yellow dot.

Rather than trying to figure out how to get that big hook into the pocket, work more on how to make it more consistent. which ultimately means hook less.

Lets assume the help on the lane is oily on the 10 board, and dry on the 9 board.

If you use as your target the 10, 9, and 8 board at 40 feet you're going to take advantage of the help the most.

But that means you NEVER want to see your ball out to the 7 board.

Now the question is how to reach that target.

It looks like you are going to have to significantly move left into the heavier oil, and let the ball slide out towards 10, 9, 8 at 40 feet.

The good thing is you won't have to force the ball out, and it should feel similar to throwing the yellow dot before.

The key is you don't want to reach the 10, 9, 8 board much earlier than 40 feet because then the ball hooks earlier, and most likely a lot more.

If you get the ball to reach 10, 9, 8 at 40 feet, and the ball doesn't hook back enough, then you have two types of adjustments.

Moving your feet further right, or moving your target closer to the foul line, say 38, or 36 feet.

Moving the target would be a coarse adjustment, while moving the feet would be fine tuning.

[LTShintsides]

You know, I've actually thought about doing that wondering if hitting the 15 board moving to the right and getting to the 10 board so early is the reason why it's so inconsistent and now that you say that it does make a lot of sense.

So what you're saying is move over to the maybe 25 board And throw it so it gets to the 8-10 board further down the lane? That's a concept I could do pretty well I think, I stand way left and throw across the lane for my ten pin spares and I've got the gradual slide across the lane down pretty good.

Thanks for the feedback, you guys are giving me some good insights

[LTShintsides]

So I know I'm still learning a lot about the game but i honestly knew far less than I thought I did about the game after doing more research the last couple days.

I had never read up on or really knew anything about the exit point like Mike had mentioned in his reply until now, I kinda always just threw the ball over the third arrow with an angle towards the right so that it would break back towards the pocket not taking into consideration the oil pattern and where it leaves the oil at and in turn reaching it's breaking point.

Now that I know about it, I haven't stopped researching it because I want to know as much about it as possible. does anyone know of any good articles? I've read a few already and watched the video "three point targeting with the quiet eye" but I'm still having a bit of a hard time grasping some of it, like how much my angle towards the exit point effects the angle of entry among other things, can anyone point me in the right direction to find more info or maybe explain some of it?

I'll be throwing a few games here soon and want to have the opportunity to test this stuff out because i feel like it's going to change my game drastically knowing where to hit down the lane but more importantly knowing where not to hit and how soon to come out of the oil so i don't run brooklyn side.

Lately I've been leaving a LOT of ten pins. now I've read (and seen the video of where your ball falls off the deck) that this is because of where you're hitting the one pin a bit high in the pocket in turn hitting the 3 pin too far left and sending it in front of the ten pin. Another article I've read states that it's because the ball loses too much power before reaching the pocket (because it's out of oil too soon) and it deflects too easily causing a weak pocket hit not capable of taking the ten down. so which is it? or is it a combination of both?

So should I be staying in the oil longer by moving my line over into the oil more to keep my ball speed a bit higher when entering the pocket? I know that this has already been said but I'm just wondering if this will help with the ever elusive ten pin problem I've been having

I'm 99% positive that my inaccuracies lately have been due to being inconsistent on my exit point, especially since I didn't even know how much it mattered until now.

I feel like I may be able to work on the third arrow as I did in my videos as long as I'm paying attention to my exit target and making sure i get there at the right distance because I've had some great pin action with my current target if you can even call it that. I'm pretty sure that the reason it would sometimes hook perfect and clear the deck and other times hit the 7 pin is due where my exit point was and not even knowing to watch for that.

I feel pretty new but i can't thank you enough Mike for opening my eyes to this, It's gonna be great....

again though, anybody have any links to articles for exit point strategies? or target line to ball reaction info? or ten pin leave advice? appreciate it.

[Mike White]

Lately I've been leaving a LOT of ten pins. now I've read (and seen the video of where your ball falls off the deck) that this is because of where you're hitting the one pin a bit high in the pocket in turn hitting the 3 pin too far left and sending it in front of the ten pin. Another article I've read states that it's because the ball loses too much power before reaching the pocket (because it's out of oil too soon) and it deflects too easily causing a weak pocket hit not capable of taking the ten down. so which is it? or is it a combination of both?


Any article you read that says a ball loses power, or energy, and that causes a 10 pin to be left, is an article that should be placed in the garbage.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/conservation%20of%20energy

When it comes to carrying a strike, there are two main points.

1) where the ball contacts the head pin.
2) how much momentum (right to left when contacting the right side of the head pin) the ball has to achieve the proper amount of deflection, for the ball to hit other pins properly.

By watching the left side of the lane as the ball reaches the pins, you get a good idea if you hit too far right or left on the head pin.

The perfect location on the head pin, the 4 pins (1, 2, 4, 7) go into the pin in a fairly straight line.

If you hit too far left on the head pin, the head pin tends to hit too far right on the 2 pin, which will likely completely miss the 4 pin, and maybe bounce off the wall and get the 7 pin. The key to recognizing this that the 2 pin is usually still sitting in the left gutter when the pins stop moving.

If you hit too far right on the head pin, the head pin tents to hit too far left on the 2 pin.

You can still get lucky a few different ways with a light hit, The 2 may still hit the 4 pin, which may hit the 7 pin, but leaving a 7 pin on a light hit is common.

The other bad part of hitting light is a 10 pin is common, however if by change, the head pin after hitting the 2 pin, bounces off the left wall, and the other pins on the left have cleared a path, the head pin can bounce back off the wall and travel into the 10 pin... Just don't count on it.

Now on to the right side, usually you don't have to watch exactly how the right side pins moved to know what went wrong when leaving a 10 pin.

If you hit the pocket (1 - 3) correctly, with the proper amount of momentum, on the right side, the ball deflects off the head pin, and hits the 3 pin such that it travels directly into the 6 pin, which in turn travels directly into the 10 pin.

If you hit the pocket, but without enough momentum, the ball will deflect too much off the head pin, hitting the 3 pin further right than you want, which causes the 3 pin to hit the 6 pin further left.

If it's just barely too far left, the 6 pin will fly past the 10 pin, hit the right wall, and bound well back into the pit. The key here is you won't see the 6 pin when your eyes move from looking at the pins on the left (to determine if you hit high / perfect/ light ) over to the right to determine how much deflection your shot had.

If the 3 pin hits the 6 pin a bit further left than above, the 6 pin will miss the 10 pin, hit the right side wall, then bounce back into the 10 pin.

In your peripheral vision, you're recognize this at the 10 pin falling to the left.

Finally if the 3 pin hits the 6 pin even further left, the 6 pin barely makes it to the right gutter.

This time when your eyes look to the right side, the 10 pin is standing, and the 6 pin is laying dead in the gutter.

But all hope is not lost, remember, if the ball it the head pin light, it could bounce off the left wall and take out that damn 10 pin.

So, watching the left side pins tells you if you hit the head pin in the proper location, and then with that information, you look to the right side to see if your ball had enough momentum.

[LTShintsides]

Great info Mike, I appreciate all your feedback and help.

[RobLV1]

One simple thing to see: When your ball exits the pin deck, if it goes between the eight and nine pin, it is the correct angle, with the maximum power, it will strike. If it deflects toward the nine pin, you will leave a weak ten, an eight pin, or, God forbid, an eight-ten split, If it continues toward the eight pin, it is still hooking and hasn't gotten into a roll, which will leave you a four pin, a nine pin, or a four-nine split,

It's really simple matter: if your ball deflects, move left (right hander) and find more oil or ball down, if it keeps going toward the eight, move right or go to an earlier-rolling ball. It's really pretty simple.

[LTShintsides]

sweet!

[bowl1820]

Thanks for changing that last post LTShintsides, there's enough going on as is.

This thread is now ended.