How do "subs" work?

[Aslan]

This is sort of a quick/easy question...but how do subs work?

For example, I don't plan on joining a league next season because I'm anticipating a move out of State and I don't want to commit to a team and then have to bail on them. And I live 1.5 minutes walk from a bowling center. So I figured I'd just walk over on the nights I wasn't busy (most nights) and see about being a sub. I don't mind paying...that's not a big deal and each league sort of does that differently...but my main question is;

"Do I have to be IN a league at that center in order to sub?"

Like, if I have an active USBC card...pay my local and state and national dues...I can just walk into any center in the association on a given night and be eligible to sub??

If I got a Nevada/Las Vegas USBC card...could I sub in a league there while I'm there?

I've never subbed...that's why I'm asking these questions....figured it might be useful for others.

[Amyers]

Around here anyway subs don't pay the league bowler they are subbing for pays. Some leagues just allow anyone to sub as long as they have a card some leagues here require you to be on the team roster. If your interested you would need to talk to the league secretaries or presidents to find out the rules for that particular league.

[zdawg]

On my team we don't make the subs pay (although it's up to individual teams to decide), as we don't give them any of the money won at the end of the season. Besides, I feel like if someone on the team has to miss a week or whatever then they are still responsible for the financial commitment made at the beginning of the season (I practice what I preach as I'm on the shelf for the next month but will still owe the money for weeks missed...currently in a walking boot :mad:).

In our league, they are required to have a current USBC membership to sub though.

[LyalC52]

around here subs don't pay, must have a USBC card to bowl

[Mike White]

This is sort of a quick/easy question...but how do subs work?

For example, I don't plan on joining a league next season because I'm anticipating a move out of State and I don't want to commit to a team and then have to bail on them. And I live 1.5 minutes walk from a bowling center. So I figured I'd just walk over on the nights I wasn't busy (most nights) and see about being a sub. I don't mind paying...that's not a big deal and each league sort of does that differently...but my main question is;

"Do I have to be IN a league at that center in order to sub?"


No, you just need to have an active USBC card in that association.


Like, if I have an active USBC card...pay my local and state and national dues...I can just walk into any center in the association on a given night and be eligible to sub??


In that association, yes.



If I got a Nevada/Las Vegas USBC card...could I sub in a league there while I'm there?

I've never subbed...that's why I'm asking these questions....figured it might be useful for others.

When you bowl in an different association than where you got your card, you have to pay association dues.

If that happens to also be in a different state, you pay state dues as well.

However the money that goes to Texas (National body) is only paid once per year.

The $21 or so paid back in August or September, is split between National, local association, and state.

[Aslan]

So, it sounds like I can sub if I want to.

The money isn't a big deal. Some leagues subs pay, some leagues they don't....no bigee.

My bigger worry is my average. I average 174 on Mondays in the only league I bowl in right now. But if they make me use my book average...then I'm a 190 average...which means I'm likely not going to help the team I'm subbing for much more than maybe making up the 10-point absentee deduction. Friggin easy AMF lanes. :mad:

[Amyers]

So, it sounds like I can sub if I want to.

The money isn't a big deal. Some leagues subs pay, some leagues they don't....no bigee.

My bigger worry is my average. I average 174 on Mondays in the only league I bowl in right now. But if they make me use my book average...then I'm a 190 average...which means I'm likely not going to help the team I'm subbing for much more than maybe making up the 10-point absentee deduction. Friggin easy AMF lanes. :mad:

I sub some usually on Monday and Wednesday nights and each league I've subbed in has different rules for handicap. One used book average, one made you bowl scratch the first 9 games, and one used my average from another league in that house I bowled in.

[Jessiewoodard57]

Aslan , I admire your commitment to team and not wanting to leave them 1 person down. I am the same way no matter how much I dislike my current center I have 2 more weeks to complete this league commitment then I am on to another house. BTW at our house the sub does not pay.

[jab5325]

I've never heard of a guy, team, league or house that would make a sub pay themselves for a night of bowling.....unless there's a season-ending injury. We had a guy in my one league tear his bicep in a work accident, and a temporary sub payed for a couple of weeks until a permanent replacement could be found.

[Mike White]

I've never heard of a guy, team, league or house that would make a sub pay themselves for a night of bowling.....unless there's a season-ending injury. We had a guy in my one league tear his bicep in a work accident, and a temporary sub payed for a couple of weeks until a permanent replacement could be found.

Years ago, we have 5 man teams, with non-roving subs, which meant you could have 7 people listed as members of the team.

Some teams rotated people in and out based on how they had performed the last time they bowled. They paid when they bowled.

My first year out of Junior leagues I was one of those subs for a team, but they had the 5 regulars pay, and when someone missed, I got a phone call.

The next year I was a regular.

[Aslan]

One league I was in, a 5-person league, each team was allowed a 6th bowler that was essentially a sub, but could only sub for that team.

The advantage of that was if the team needed a sub for sweeps, the 6th man could go. Other subs could not.

I completely forgot about that....I guess I did sub once...for a team as their 6th man...only 21 games....and I didn't sweep with them...but that's the only time I subbed and it was a league I had been in the season before...and only for that one team.

[Aslan]

Well, after 1 full week of trying to sub....I've found;

1) I didn't get to bowl at all.
2) Most of the time I had to remind the person at the counter more than once or they'd forget to even announce that a sub was available.

Went to the alley Mon, Tues, Wed, and Thurs to try and sub...never got asked. It was so defeating I just skipped Friday and didn't even both doing the Saturday tournament.

So, thus far, opinion on subbing is "PFFFFT!!!" < fart noise > :mad:

[bowl1820]

Well, after 1 full week of trying to sub....I've found;

1) I didn't get to bowl at all.
2) Most of the time I had to remind the person at the counter more than once or they'd forget to even announce that a sub was available.

Went to the alley Mon, Tues, Wed, and Thurs to try and sub...never got asked. It was so defeating I just skipped Friday and didn't even both doing the Saturday tournament.

So, thus far, opinion on subbing is "PFFFFT!!!" < fart noise > :mad:

Be a little more pro-active go by the lanes looking for teams with blinds and check with the teams directly. Don't rely on the desk.

[Mike White]

Well, after 1 full week of trying to sub....I've found;

1) I didn't get to bowl at all.
2) Most of the time I had to remind the person at the counter more than once or they'd forget to even announce that a sub was available.

Went to the alley Mon, Tues, Wed, and Thurs to try and sub...never got asked. It was so defeating I just skipped Friday and didn't even both doing the Saturday tournament.

So, thus far, opinion on subbing is "PFFFFT!!!" < fart noise > :mad:

Maybe you're not known well enough, or maybe you're too well known.

[Amyers]

Well, after 1 full week of trying to sub....I've found;

1) I didn't get to bowl at all.
2) Most of the time I had to remind the person at the counter more than once or they'd forget to even announce that a sub was available.

Went to the alley Mon, Tues, Wed, and Thurs to try and sub...never got asked. It was so defeating I just skipped Friday and didn't even both doing the Saturday tournament.

So, thus far, opinion on subbing is "PFFFFT!!!" < fart noise > :mad:

I'm not sure the sub scene is as robust in the summer leagues as it is in the fall. I haven't seen a single sub on an of my summer leagues. You may find that you are better off to try and find a team or two that is missing a member and join the league. If your move is not certain anyway.

[LOUVIT]

In the day's gone by many, many years ago when it was the ABC sanctioned league it would be a blind and we'd use the average of the missing bowler in a handicapped league, the sub would just be a pace setter if I remember correctly.

[Aslan]

Be a little more pro-active go by the lanes looking for teams with blinds and check with the teams directly. Don't rely on the desk.
I dunno....I'm too shy for that. I don't want teams to feel "pressured" into letting me bowl with them. I'm fairly confident that I could help them win...versus losing due to them having a missing bowler...but that's far from guaranteed. Thus far I've subbed 3 times in one league...the first week I helped them take 4 points. Then the second week...I at least led to them losing one point. And the third week, same thing...I helped them win 1-3 points...but probably lost them 1.


Maybe you're not known well enough, or maybe you're too well known.
Good point.

But, fortunately...I think it's a "not known well enough" scenario. In 3 of the 4 times I've gotten to sub...a guy that knows me from the Saturday weekly tournament actually subs a lot too..and once a team asks him to sub (almost every night he shows up he subs)...if another team approaches him he tells that team that he's already taken...but they should ask me. He usually talks me up pretty good...which on the one hand puts some pressure on me...but on the other hand is kinda flattering.

[JaxBowlingGuy]

I sub the whole summer in various leagues just so I'm not committed to a league. It's free practice and give me more opportunity for bracket money . I'm fairly well known in the center I bowl so it makes it a little easier. Best thing to do if you don't know the league, or they don't know you is stand around the counter and wait for them to come say "put xyz as blind" then just ask them if they want a sub.

[billf]

Make sure distance well known. I can't tell you how many times needing a sub will be found out last minute. Maybe see if you make up a little flyer if the center will let you post it.

[Aslan]

Make sure distance well known. I can't tell you how many times needing a sub will be found out last minute. Maybe see if you make up a little flyer if the center will let you post it.

That's exactly what I was thinking of doing. If I'm still in California for Fall/Winter season, I'm gonna make a little 10x12 A-frame with my picture on it, maybe some little LED lights around the border, that says something like "SUB AVAILABLE! Don't lose 30 pins due to an absent bowler!! See Aslan at the Bar!"

[JaxBowlingGuy]

One thing I have noticed is that teams that let someone sub and lose because the sub didn't bowl well aren't usually too happy lol

[LOUVIT]

Isn't there also pacing? Where as the person just bowls but their scores do not count they just bowl to keep an even pace. the team uses the missing person's average as the score. I know it was done way back not sure if they still do it.

[JaxBowlingGuy]

Isn't there also pacing? Where as the person just bowls but their scores do not count they just bowl to keep an even pace. the team uses the missing person's average as the score. I know it was done way back not sure if they still do it.

I haven't seen that as much anymore. Only time I had ever seen that here was in a singles league

[Mike White]

Isn't there also pacing? Where as the person just bowls but their scores do not count they just bowl to keep an even pace. the team uses the missing person's average as the score. I know it was done way back not sure if they still do it.

I haven't seem pacing since automatic score keeping came along.

Years ago I was down in Florida, watching a tournament similar to the ABT out west, and out of the blue I was asked if I wanted to be a pacer in the tournament.

[Aslan]

One thing I have noticed is that teams that let someone sub and lose because the sub didn't bowl well aren't usually too happy lol

Yeah...it definitely adds pressure when subbing...because the last thing I want to do is have a team let me bowl with them and then cost them points. But, it's going to happen. I could have sandbagged the first week or two...to help the next couple teams...or I could bowl well the first week and hurt the teams the next couple weeks...the only way to mitigate that is to let subs enter with their sanctioned average rather than establish.

[fordman1]

It is much better to get enough bowlers to have every team carry up to 8 bowlers on a 5 man team. Subs won't come in to the helping or hurting conversation. Mostly subs are for mixed leagues not mens or even womens leagues. At least around here. We will have an occasional pacer if someone is short and a friend or relative is visiting and wants to fill in. The other team must agree or you can't do it.

I don't think most teams trust subs. Good ones might be too selective who they bowl for and create hard feelings.

My team has 2 bowlers who rototate every other week and both pay half the season and if the 7th or 8th man bowls he pays nothing and gets on donations from the team. Last year our 7th bowlers was given if memory serves $125 or $150.

[LOUVIT]

I haven't seem pacing since automatic score keeping came along.

Years ago I was down in Florida, watching a tournament similar to the ABT out west, and out of the blue I was asked if I wanted to be a pacer in the tournament.


lol in my day we had a pencil and paper and had it add it ourselves, nt even a projection screen above. If a team won by 1-5 pins we added all over again....Auto scoring has nothing to do with one team having 3 people and one having 4. pacing is to keep the lineup in stright. just this Wednesday I had 2 people and the other team had 4. i waited until they were done before I threw.

[fordman1]

After double checking we only had 2 pacers last season. Both the last night so they could bowl doubles. We have points the last night with the roll off. Doubles paid $600 for 1st place. Anyone bowling had to have 21 games in to bowl that night.