Pinpal stats: What to strive for

[NewToBowling]

Here are my Pinpal stats for the season so far (33 games)

PinPal Stats:
First Ball Average: 8.87
Strikes: 45% (166/364)
Spares = 61% (116/188)
Single Pin = 75% (65/86) - To date only 1 missed non-10-pin (7 pin). Not saying much though.
Multiple Pins = 50% (51/102)
Opens = 20% (72)

Just had a question on what one should strive for. Of course 100% across the board would work :) but let's be realistic.

I'm currently at 191 avg in my league. What is considered a good first ball avg? Strikes? Spares? etc?

I know it's a loaded open ended question but I need something to shoot for. Is 9+ a good first ball avg? Strikes at 70%? etc...

[vdubtx]

Just for comparison from my stats:

Avg 224 through 144 games this season.

First Ball Average = 9.34
Strikes = 62%
Spares = 74% (416/561)
Single Pin = 90% (302/334)
Multiple Pins = 50% (114/227)
Splits = 6% (6/94)
Opens = 9% (145)

10 pins have been horrible for me this year, only at 83% vs. 90% last year, this one pin accounts for 26 of my single pin misses. converting 10 pin at my last year rate would put me at 93% single pin conversion. Certainly shows that I have had a lack of practice since before the holidays.

Here are some interesting stats regarding Pro's:

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e381/Vdubtx/PBA%20Spares_zpsnpb04d3f.jpg (http://s43.photobucket.com/user/Vdubtx/media/PBA%20Spares_zpsnpb04d3f.jpg.html)

[jab5325]

Here are my Pinpal stats for the season so far (33 games)

PinPal Stats:
First Ball Average: 8.87
Strikes: 45% (166/364)
Spares = 61% (116/188)
Single Pin = 75% (65/86) - To date only 1 missed non-10-pin (7 pin). Not saying much though.
Multiple Pins = 50% (51/102)
Opens = 20% (72)

Just had a question on what one should strive for. Of course 100% across the board would work :) but let's be realistic.

I'm currently at 191 avg in my league. What is considered a good first ball avg? Strikes? Spares? etc?

I know it's a loaded open ended question but I need something to shoot for. Is 9+ a good first ball avg? Strikes at 70%? etc...

Good question--here are mine from my scratch league. The other league I use purely to try new things, and thus am nowhere near my scratch league.

Total Games: 81, 186.65 average (odd number due to power outage)

First Ball Average: 8.86
Strikes: 45% (403/886)
Spares = 57% (263/456)
Single Pin = 71% (147/205)
Multiple Pins = 46% (116/251)
Splits = 14% (11/77, including two converted 4-6s)
Opens = 22% (193)

Since my lesson, I am:

30 games total, 195.83 average

First Ball Average: 9.1
Strikes: 50% (163/326)
Spares = 56% (88/156)
Single Pin = 73% (54/73)
Multiple Pins = 40% (34/83)
Splits = 10% (4/37)
Opens = 21% (156)

[Aslan]

Each season I strive for certain goals. Some are Pinpal related, some not so. Here was this season's (Pinpal stats in bold):

Goals for 2015:

1) Always throw a clean game and/or a 550+ series.
2) Finish Fall/Winter in the top 20% of BOTH leagues in average.
3) Increase my strike % from 37% to 55% or higher.
4) Increase single-pin spare shooting % from 76% to 83% or higher.
5) Bowl a 266 (or higher) sanctioned game.

Now, each person has to look at their stats individually and decide whats holding them back.

For me, I was always striking 12-37%. That makes for a long night of shooting spares and a lot of low scores...even when my spare shooting was good. So I needed to work on carry....figuring out why I'm not carrying pocket hits....accuracy to find the pocket and find it sooner, etc... And I also needed to keep pressure on myself to increase that single-pin spare shooting.

Looking at you Pinpal stats...the only thing that looks "odd" is you have a rather low firstball average and a high strike %. That would indicate (to me) that you're a two-handed or thumbless bowler who strikes a lot but when you miss...you leave horrible multi-pin leaves. I may be wrong...but it's very odd to have a low first ball average and a 50%+ strike rate. Vdub strikes almost 2/3 of the time and has a first ball average of 9.3+.

That being said, for a 2-handed/thumbless/palm bowler...your single-pin spare shooting is much better than most...so it's a ?????.

The mudpuppy cliff note answer is actually quite clear. You strike enough, but your spare shooting needs work.

[fokai73]

I've been using PinPal for a long time and before that it was "warly" ?? On the palm pilot lol....

Anyway, I took time off 3 years ago and seriously recorded my league stats the last two season when I returned. In the past I didn't have a gaol to achieve and I pretty much wasted my time taking down data. So this time around, I'm comparing my stats from last season to this season. I'm constantly looking at my old stats before leagues to motivate myself to bowl well. But, I hit a slump in the middle of the season and dropped percentages - I stopped looking at old data around the time of my slump. Here are my stats from two seasons ago, before the slump (1st half), to current (over the slump).

Strike% from 9.08 to 9.20 currently 9.18
Spares% from 64% to 70% currently 68%
Single% from 81% to 89% currently 84%
Multi% from 47% to 60% currently 59%
Splits% from 6% to 17% currently 17%

The 3 6 9 10 multi combos were my weakness, I could pick these combination leaves. Then I adjusted my spare position at the approach and play directly hitting the right side of the key pin (3). Now, Any leaves from 3 6 10 to baby splits to double wood, it's $$$! Spare game is still work in progress.

The percentage doesn't seem so drastic, but I lost 11 sticks in my average after the first half and currently gained 3 sticks.

[jab5325]

I've been using PinPal for a long time and before that it was "warly" ?? On the palm pilot lol....

Anyway, I took time off 3 years ago and seriously recorded my league stats the last two season when I returned. In the past I didn't have a gaol to achieve and I pretty much wasted my time taking down data. So this time around, I'm comparing my stats from last season to this season. I'm constantly looking at my old stats before leagues to motivate myself to bowl well. But, I hit a slump in the middle of the season and dropped percentages - I stopped looking at old data around the time of my slump. Here are my stats from two seasons ago, before the slump (1st half), to current (over the slump).

Strike% from 9.08 to 9.20 currently 9.18
Spares% from 64% to 70% currently 68%
Single% from 81% to 89% currently 84%
Multi% from 47% to 60% currently 59%
Splits% from 6% to 17% currently 17%

The 3 6 9 10 multi combos were my weakness, I could pick these combination leaves. Then I adjusted my spare position at the approach and play directly hitting the right side of the key pin (3). Now, Any leaves from 3 6 10 to baby splits to double wood, it's $$$! Spare game is still work in progress.

The percentage doesn't seem so drastic, but I lost 11 sticks in my average after the first half and currently gained 3 sticks.

Amen, fokai--that's exactly the type of thing I'm trying to do. I have a nasty habit of chopping 4-7s, 2-4-7s and the like.

To the uninitiated, it looks like I haven't improved spare shooting since my lesson. But, I've gone from dumping it in the gutter or yanking it halfway across the lane to chopping. Granted, almost only counts in horseshoes, hand grenades, and nuclear warfare....but I'm getting closer. I try not to get angry at myself and remember that it's only my second season, and first full season, back in the sport and I've already increased my average 13 pins.

Great job, by the way.

[bowl1820]

Here are my Pinpal stats for the season so far (33 games)

PinPal Stats:
First Ball Average: 8.87
Strikes: 45% (166/364)
Spares = 61% (116/188)
Single Pin = 75% (65/86) - To date only 1 missed non-10-pin (7 pin). Not saying much though.
Multiple Pins = 50% (51/102)
Opens = 20% (72)

Just had a question on what one should strive for. Of course 100% across the board would work :) but let's be realistic.

I'm currently at 191 avg in my league. What is considered a good first ball avg? Strikes? Spares? etc?

I know it's a loaded open ended question but I need something to shoot for. Is 9+ a good first ball avg? Strikes at 70%? etc...

increase your first ball average to 9+, this will reduce the number of multi pin spares needed to be converted.

With the better carry needed to do that, it likely mean you'll be striking more so your strike % will naturally go up. Since your better at shooting single pin spares, that would also help your overall spare percentage, because of the reduced number of multi pin spares needed to be shot.

Then practice on converting the multiple pin spares that are left.

[fokai73]

What this app doesn't do like others I've used, are.....

1. Record if the strike is in the pocket or Brooklyn.
2. Multi pin spare includes splits. If splits were not included, those % would be higher.
3. Does not indicate starting point @ the approach.

Though, I can take notes which is a plus. I write down what pair I bowled and compare the history of that pair. For example: hi/low scores, amount of corners, drier, reflection, mid racks, etc...

Overall, this PinPal is a good app FWIW.

[fokai73]

Amen, fokai--that's exactly the type of thing I'm trying to do. I have a nasty habit of chopping 4-7s, 2-4-7s and the like.

To the uninitiated, it looks like I haven't improved spare shooting since my lesson. But, I've gone from dumping it in the gutter or yanking it halfway across the lane to chopping. Granted, almost only counts in horseshoes, hand grenades, and nuclear warfare....but I'm getting closer. I try not to get angry at myself and remember that it's only my second season, and first full season, back in the sport and I've already increased my average 13 pins.

Great job, by the way.

Thanks but it's still an uphill battle lol

[NewToBowling]

Thanks. Yes it would be nice to separate splits from the multi-pins section. I am currently 2/22 on splits. Take that away from multi-pins section and it looks a bit better.

And it's true, a 9+ on first ball average will naturally bring everything else up. That's one goal for now.

I do like the iPhone version better than Android because you can export the "pindicators" on iPhone version. I think that's a big help.

[NewToBowling]

Each season I strive for certain goals. Some are Pinpal related, some not so. Here was this season's (Pinpal stats in bold):

Goals for 2015:

1) Always throw a clean game and/or a 550+ series.
2) Finish Fall/Winter in the top 20% of BOTH leagues in average.
3) Increase my strike % from 37% to 55% or higher.
4) Increase single-pin spare shooting % from 76% to 83% or higher.
5) Bowl a 266 (or higher) sanctioned game.

Now, each person has to look at their stats individually and decide whats holding them back.

For me, I was always striking 12-37%. That makes for a long night of shooting spares and a lot of low scores...even when my spare shooting was good. So I needed to work on carry....figuring out why I'm not carrying pocket hits....accuracy to find the pocket and find it sooner, etc... And I also needed to keep pressure on myself to increase that single-pin spare shooting.

Looking at you Pinpal stats...the only thing that looks "odd" is you have a rather low firstball average and a high strike %. That would indicate (to me) that you're a two-handed or thumbless bowler who strikes a lot but when you miss...you leave horrible multi-pin leaves. I may be wrong...but it's very odd to have a low first ball average and a 50%+ strike rate. Vdub strikes almost 2/3 of the time and has a first ball average of 9.3+.

That being said, for a 2-handed/thumbless/palm bowler...your single-pin spare shooting is much better than most...so it's a ?????.

The mudpuppy cliff note answer is actually quite clear. You strike enough, but your spare shooting needs work.

Nope, I'm traditional thumb bowler. I have better control that way.

My single pin accuracy is good if they ever got rid of the 10 pin :). I've only missed one single non-10 pin.

Splits are grouped in with multi pins. My splits are 2/22. Take that away and my multi pins rate goes up to 61% (I think)

And to me 45% isn't a high strike %. Want it at least over 50%

[Mike White]

I've been using PinPal for a long time and before that it was "warly" ?? On the palm pilot lol....

Anyway, I took time off 3 years ago and seriously recorded my league stats the last two season when I returned. In the past I didn't have a gaol to achieve and I pretty much wasted my time taking down data. So this time around, I'm comparing my stats from last season to this season. I'm constantly looking at my old stats before leagues to motivate myself to bowl well. But, I hit a slump in the middle of the season and dropped percentages - I stopped looking at old data around the time of my slump. Here are my stats from two seasons ago, before the slump (1st half), to current (over the slump).

Strike% from 9.08 to 9.20 currently 9.18
Spares% from 64% to 70% currently 68%
Single% from 81% to 89% currently 84%
Multi% from 47% to 60% currently 59%
Splits% from 6% to 17% currently 17%

The 3 6 9 10 multi combos were my weakness, I could pick these combination leaves. Then I adjusted my spare position at the approach and play directly hitting the right side of the key pin (3). Now, Any leaves from 3 6 10 to baby splits to double wood, it's $$$! Spare game is still work in progress.

The percentage doesn't seem so drastic, but I lost 11 sticks in my average after the first half and currently gained 3 sticks.

[HUMOR ALERT] for those who are humor impaired.

Please tell me you didn't really have a strike % as low as 9.08.

[fokai73]

[HUMOR ALERT] for those who are humor impaired.

Please tell me you didn't really have a strike % as low as 9.08.

HAHAHAHAHa wow good catch..... that's my low ball average lol...

52% last year currently 58% on strikes

[JasonNJ]

What this app doesn't do like others I've used, are.....

1. Record if the strike is in the pocket or Brooklyn.
2. Multi pin spare includes splits. If splits were not included, those % would be higher.
3. Does not indicate starting point @ the approach.

Though, I can take notes which is a plus. I write down what pair I bowled and compare the history of that pair. For example: hi/low scores, amount of corners, drier, reflection, mid racks, etc...

Overall, this PinPal is a good app FWIW.

Check out an App called Strike Out Stats. They give you multi pin spare percentage with and without splits. They have a game detail section where you can specify the house you are bowling in, which lane pair and which ball you used, oil condition and a small section for Notes. Then they allow you to filter stats by ball, pair of lanes and house. Here is a sample of some stats from when I pre-bowled for my league games tonight.

League: Weds Night Mixed
Bowling Date: 03-30-2016

Score Ave: 214.33
Total Pins (Series): 643
High Game: 221
Total Games: 3

First Roll Average: 9.40
Most Strikes in a Row: 5

Strike Percentage: 61.8%
Total Strikes: 21
Strike Chances: 34

Spare Percentage: 75.0%
Total Spares: 9
Spare Chances: 12

Single Pin Spares %: 100.0%
Single Pin Total: 8
Single Pin Chances: 8

Multi-Pin Spares %: 25.0%
Multi-Pin Total: 1
Multi-Pin Chances: 4

Multi-Pin Non-Split %: 100.0%
Multi Non-Split Total: 1
Multi Non-Split Chances: 1

Split Conversion %: 0.0%
Splits Picked Up: 0
Splits Attempted: 3

Open Frame %: 10.0%
Open Frames: 3
Total Frames: 30

[fokai73]

Check out an App called Strike Out Stats. They give you multi pin spare percentage with and without splits. They have a game detail section where you can specify the house you are bowling in, which lane pair and which ball you used, oil condition and a small section for Notes. Then they allow you to filter stats by ball, pair of lanes and house. Here is a sample of some stats from when I pre-bowled for my league games tonight.

League: Weds Night Mixed
Bowling Date: 03-30-2016

Score Ave: 214.33
Total Pins (Series): 643
High Game: 221
Total Games: 3

First Roll Average: 9.40
Most Strikes in a Row: 5

Strike Percentage: 61.8%
Total Strikes: 21
Strike Chances: 34

Spare Percentage: 75.0%
Total Spares: 9
Spare Chances: 12

Single Pin Spares %: 100.0%
Single Pin Total: 8
Single Pin Chances: 8

Multi-Pin Spares %: 25.0%
Multi-Pin Total: 1
Multi-Pin Chances: 4

Multi-Pin Non-Split %: 100.0%
Multi Non-Split Total: 1
Multi Non-Split Chances: 1

Split Conversion %: 0.0%
Splits Picked Up: 0
Splits Attempted: 3

Open Frame %: 10.0%
Open Frames: 3
Total Frames: 30


pinpal has a lot of features no doubt, everything you just mentioned. but I wish it had a multi pin stats for non split leaves like the app you are using. Then it will be perfect. One thing I like about pinpal is that we users can share our stats on social media or text/email message with scores and/or score sheet. I'm pretty sure the Strike out Stats does the same thing, but not sure it's on the Apple app store.

I couldn't find the app you mentioned on the apple app store.

[mc_runner]

The biggest benefit for me has been the ability to track which pins/leaves are giving me the most trouble. For example this season I'm 85% on 10 pins, but only 69% on 6-10 pins. Strike % and first ball average were another focus this season - as well as tracking the number of splits vs. last year.

[NotesOfC]

Is the pin pal lite app any good, or is the full version worth it? I've been curious about using it for a while and I may decide to try it out, it'd be nice to track my stats and get a better look at all of my percentages and such. Just curious as to the big differences between the full and lite versions. Thanks!

[Timmyb]

Is the pin pal lite app any good, or is the full version worth it? I've been curious about using it for a while and I may decide to try it out, it'd be nice to track my stats and get a better look at all of my percentages and such. Just curious as to the big differences between the full and lite versions. Thanks!

I have the full version. The only gripe I have with it is it is a pain in the *** to correct a score if you forget to enter it, or enter it incorrectly.

[bowl1820]

Is the pin pal lite app any good, or is the full version worth it? I've been curious about using it for a while and I may decide to try it out, it'd be nice to track my stats and get a better look at all of my percentages and such. Just curious as to the big differences between the full and lite versions. Thanks!

Pin Pal Lite is crippleware you can only do 4 nights of league, 4 days of open bowling and one tournament, so 27 games then you have to delete them.

A free one that's pretty good is "Best Bowling Free" I use it (for iOS devices)

[NotesOfC]

Pin Pal Lite is crippleware you can only do 4 nights of league, 4 days of open bowling and one tournament, so 27 games then you have to delete them.

A free one that's pretty good is "Best Bowling Free" I use it (for iOS devices)

Thanks for the suggestion! I'll definitely try it out, it will be fun to use regardless. $8 isn't too much money and I think an app like pinpal would really help my game. So I'm definitely going to get it before next week and start using it.

[NotesOfC]

I have the full version. The only gripe I have with it is it is a pain in the *** to correct a score if you forget to enter it, or enter it incorrectly.

Ah, I see. Well I will have to be careful then if I decide to get it lol that sounds frustrating.

[fokai73]

I have the full version. The only gripe I have with it is it is a pain in the *** to correct a score if you forget to enter it, or enter it incorrectly.

I have the full version. I've never had issues with scoring. Even if I complete a game, I can go back and correct it. I only had this problem before the update last year or so. There's def. no issues with correcting and editing score on my app once a game has been completed.

For example, I mistakenly jotted down a 10 pin leave when in fact it was a 9 pin. I was able to correct it two frames later.

[jab5325]

The only complaint I have about PinPal is that it causes a sudden urge to vomit from time to time after looking at it.

I can't quite pin down the "why", but it might have something to do with the minus sign that comes up often after a 7-pin or a 4-7.

[Aslan]

The only complaint I have about PinPal is that it causes a sudden urge to vomit from time to time after looking at it.

I can't quite pin down the "why", but it might have something to do with the minus sign that comes up often after a 7-pin or a 4-7.

To be fair....it also has the opposite effect. There's been a lot of nights lately where I miss a single-pin...and think the sky is falling...then after league play is over I look at the stats and realize I was 83% at single-pins and that one was the only one I missed.

I have made recommendtations to the creator of Pinpal about a checkbox for "pocket hits" and a pocket % stat.

The only "problems" I've noticed:
1) The data can't transfer from iOS to Android. So, if you are like me and had an iPhone...then decided to get an Android...ya gotta start over. So I sill use my iOS phone...just for PinPal and keeping bowling stats. I also have the app on the Android phone just in case I forget the iPhone or don't have it on me.

2) After a couple years of data...on my iOS phone...it gets "glitchy" where suddenly it'll not be able to display anything....and I have to shut it off and re-start. That fixes it...but it's kind've annoying. It might be the phone and not Pinpal.

3) The Android app is harder to use. I still can't figure out easily where the "game details" are. It's just a little different to work with if you're used to the iOS version.

Neither separate out splits in the multi-pin leave stat...but it does separate them out so you can easily do the math in your head.

For example, if I'm 7/13 on multi-pins and 0/4 on splits....I know I was 7/9 on non-split multi-pins.

I don't pay as much attention to splits and multi-pins....as Bowl1820 eluded to...the key there is to not leave them in the first place. If you're hitting the pocket consistently...making good and timely moves...multi-pin leaves should be rare. My best nights, regardless of carry, were nights where I left only a few multi-pin leaves...most were splits...and I struck in the > 45% range and left a LOT of single-pins....mostly 10s. Most of the time when you leave multiple pins...you're not lined up right or you MISSED.

[Mike White]

I have the full version. The only gripe I have with it is it is a pain in the *** to correct a score if you forget to enter it, or enter it incorrectly.

ZDawg and I are fully aware of the problem.

When we went to Temecula, Aslan made the spare in the 10th frame, then noticed he missed entering an earlier frame.

We sat there waiting for what seemed like forever for him to fix the entries before he threw the fill ball.

Really we can't blame the app for that, Aslan could have thrown the fill ball first, then sat down and fixed the entries while ZDawg and I finished up.

But I guess Aslan wasn't thinking about anything other than Aslan.

[NewToBowling]

Don't know about you guys but I can easily change scores in Pinpal. Literally just a few clicks.

The thing I don't like is they make it hard for you to gather your stats for one league night. You have to go to the Statlistics page and put in a date range to view stats from say last week or so. You just can't go to your League page and click on last weeks scores and get stats for just that night. You can only view total league stats, not weekly easily.

[fokai73]

When it comes to recording POCKET hits or miss I do this......

Each game I record each frame with these letters, numbers, and symbols to represent my pocket entry. I go onto "game Detail" and record it after each frame. It seems a bit too much but it's really not. I started this 3 weeks ago and it actually helps me to remember what happened the last time I was on that lane and hopefully make the right adjustments.

here's a sample:

Game 1: H (high)8 @11, L (light), F (flush), B (brook), M (miss), H8,F20,F9,L9,H8@10,F20@9,L9@8 end.
#Lane 11 spot on 10/9 foot on 25; lane 12 spot on 9/8 foot on 24

The numbers 8 20 and 9 after the letter is where my ball ended up at the pin deck. I could hit flush, but the ball deflected, for example.
The numbers after the @ symbol is the board where my ball crossed. It maybe the one I'm looking at or not lol.

You can create or customize your way of taking data on pocket hits. I do this because I have ADD and I have short term memory. I remember where I stood on the last shot, but I don't remember what happened the last frame lol. this helps me.

Game 1: H20@10, F20@9, M, L9@7, H8@11, .........and so on.



Update/Note: since doing this, I'm posting shots more, I'm aware of what's happening on every shot, and remembering lol.

My old lady just told me to do this format instead lol.

board crossed, hit, and left, center, right at the pin deck = 10HL, 10FC, 12LR

she's smart :D

[bowl1820]

FYI:
If you want to keep track of a ridiculous amount of stuff then spend $30 for Bowlsheet 2.
https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/bowlsheet-2/id411894855?mt=8

Besides the pin stats, lane conditions, targeting, where you stand and slide, layouts, grip, ball speed, multiplayers, balls, shoes, wrist supports, and more.


http://a5.mzstatic.com/us/r30/Purple/v4/d9/cc/8d/d9cc8d08-58ba-e458-10b9-62a720b94583/screen568x568.jpeg

[fokai73]

Bowl sheet looks too busy lol.

What I do seems a lot, but to input those data per frame just takes me less than 5 seconds. It's faster than Joe bowler who stands on he approach and takes 20 seconds to bowl.

Then there's that's stupid 2 lane courtesy rule.....

[NewToBowling]

Yeah, Bowl Sheet seems a bit much. What's next. It's going to ask me to write a thesis on the advantages 2 handers have vs traditional.

[Aslan]

ZDawg and I are fully aware of the problem.

When we went to Temecula, Aslan made the spare in the 10th frame, then noticed he missed entering an earlier frame.

We sat there waiting for what seemed like forever for him to fix the entries before he threw the fill ball.

Really we can't blame the app for that, Aslan could have thrown the fill ball first, then sat down and fixed the entries while ZDawg and I finished up.

But I guess Aslan wasn't thinking about anything other than Aslan.

http://site.despair.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2008/08/whining.jpg

Here we go again!!!

Man...if I could get 1 pin for every excuse Mike has for losing in Temecula...I'd have at least a 200 before I threw the first shot. I mean, let me get this straight...

The theory is...

1) The two new bowlers got handicap...and that was unfair...because despite your 35-year head start...much of that you were injured...
2) Somehow...the minimum wage earning maintenance guy....on a Saturday...for no apparent reason other than to intentionally destroy Mike's victory...decided to oil the lanes in a way that the machine cannot even be programmed to oil....a "reverse block" pattern...that no center anywhere would apply...much less lay down prior to a Saturday filled with kid's birthday parties....

AND
3) Aslan got a free pin because one frame a 10-pin fell down prior to the shot and we didn't want to wait 2 hours for the new girl behind the counter to figure out what to do about it...

AND
4) Aslan intentionally mis-entered Pinpal stats so he could slow-play...which somehow...caused Mike to lose.

...and the approaches were sticky...and it was a distracting environment because they had big screens playing cartoons....and Aslan throws a straight ball....and some kids walked too close to our seating area...AND.... and ..... and.....

Folks....WATCH THE VIDEO (https://youtu.be/KtN2oY-cqUc). Decide for yourself.
Go to Youtube....type in "Billy Hardwick Memorial"...watch all 3 games.

Note: I apologize to Billy Hardwick's family that when you type that in a search field....3 videos of us idiots bowling is what comes up...also, Chris Hardwick...please come and be the commentator at the next event...in case he's reading this. Afterwards I wanna talk Breaking Bad and Better Call Saul with that guy.

Frame by Frame Analysis (for those that lack video capability):

Game 1
Frame #1: Aslan strike Brooklyn, MWhite throws his ball in the gutter, then opens, ZDawg actually hits the pocket bu can't convert the 7-pin.
Score: Aslan 10, ZDawg 9, MWhite 7.
Who made the best shot? TIE: Aslan (who struck all be it Brooklyn) and ZDawg (the only one to hit the pocket).

Frame #2: Aslan gets ROBBED on a pocket hit then misses a 10-pin. Mike still can't find the pocket...converts the sleeper for an 8 /. ZDawg also misses the pocket...to the right...but converts the multi-pin spare.
Score: ZDawg 19, Aslan 19, MWhite 17.
Who made the best shot? ASLAN...because I got robbed of the strike and missed the 10-pin barely.

Frame #3 Aslan again misses right...leaves the 3-pin....converts it (barely) for a 9 /. MWhite completely misses to the left (he knew it when he threw it) and hits 3 pins. He then doesn't even come close to converting. ZDawg missed way right...took out like 6 pins....but converted.
Score: ZDawg 35, Aslan 29, MWhite 28.
Who made the best shot? ASLAN (by a hair) because even though he totally missed the pocket AGAIN...he was still closer than ZDawg or MWhite.

Frame #4 Aslan goes through the nose leaving a 3-10 baby split...totally misses converting it. MWhite AGAIN misses right...taking out like 5 pins...I don't think he converted it...couldn't tell because my sleeve is in the way...looks like he left 2 standing. ZDawg goes through the nose and leaves a 3-6-7 split...just missed picking it up.
Score: ZDawg 49, Aslan 39, MWhite 36.
Who made the best shot? TIE Aslan actually marked on a good 2nd shot...but ZDawg gets the tie since his first shot was better and he almost picked up a tough split despite ultimately opening.

NOTE: Realize that after 4 frames...Aslan suffers a slight injury to his hip...but bravely presses on!! :cool:

Frame #5: Aslan gutters on the first shot.

CONTROVERSY ALERT!!! The ball bounces out of the gutter on Aslan's 1st shot and takes out the 10-pin. Given that the place was under-staffed and super busy and the lady behind the counter seemed somewhat clueless...we agreed to just go ahead and throw shot #2...then fix the score. BUT, Aslan strikes giving him a 1 /. No need to change it...because he was coming off an open.

VIDEO REPLAY!!! If you watch the fill shot...you CLEARLY see 2-3 pins flying around where the 10-pin would have been...the odds that those 2-3 pins miss the 10-pin (had it been there)...virtually impossible.

Frame #5 (continued) Aslan strikes for a 0 /. MWhite goes through the nose but is GIFTED a strike. ZDawg misses WAY left....takes out 3-4 pins....he can't convert.
Score: ZDawg 58, Aslan 49, MWhite 44.
Who made the best shot? They were UGLY...but we'll give MWhite this one since technically he struck...but Aslan's 2nd shot was better than MWhite's first shot.

Frame #6: Aslan misses right....leaves his nemesis, the 1-2-8...converts for a 7 /. MWhite misses left and leaves a single 5-pin....and MISSES it!! ZDawg goes through the nose and takes out 7 pins...can't convert for a 9-count.
Score: MWhite 72, ZDawg, 67, Aslan 66.
Who made the best shot? Again, hard to say...but Aslan was the only one to mark...so he wins this round.

Frame #7: Aslan misses waay right...takes out 6 pins...then can't convert for an 8-count. Mike goes through the nose and leaves a 5-7 split...then ANOTHER GIFT....and we're talking GIFTS FROM THE GODS....DESPITE not even TRYING to convert the split....throwing his spare ball directly at the 7-pin...somehow the friggin 7-pin bounces up and rolls backwards and takes out the 5-pin for an 8 /. TALK ABOUT LUCKY!! We didn't even know it happened...Mike didn't even know it happened....we thought it was a scoring error....you can hear Mike saying "It gave me a spare for that?" ZDawg gets up, misses way right. Then a bystander comes over and confirms that Mike indeed did convert the spare...ZDawg converts his spare.
Score: MWhite 82, Aslan 80, ZDawg 77.
Who made the best shot? I'm saying ZDawg and MWhite tie...in the ugliest tie for 1st place ever. :rolleyes:

Frame #8 Aslan hits pocket but leaves the 10-pin....missed it AGAIN! MWhite misses pocket left again...leaves a single 6-pin...converts. Zdawg misses well right...then misses the spare conversion for what appeared to be a 6-count.
Score: Mwhite 101, ZDawg 93, Aslan 89.
Who made the best shot? TIE...Aslan's first shot was better...but MWhite converted the spare.

Frame #9 Aslan misses way right...then way left...for about a 7-count open. Mwhite misses way left...converts the multi-pin spare. ZDawg misses right of pocket and leaves an ugly 2-7 split...again...almost picked it up...but didn't.
Score Mwhite 116, ZDawg 101, Aslan 96.
Who made the best shot? MWhite for the simple fact that me and ZDawg were horrible that frame.

Frame #10 Aslan CRUSHES the pindeck and does his patented PDW cross-chop to intimidate his competition!!! It was SO powerful...I forgot it was the 10th...then missed way left...but converted for a X 7 /. MWhite misses left and leaves a 3-pin...and misses it. Zdawg gutters on the first throw...gets 4 pins on the 2nd throw.
Score: MWhite 134, Aslan 116, ZDawg 115.
Who made the best shot? Aslan...strike and a spare definitely beats two opens.

Now, the scores aren't "exact"....actually ZDawg and I tied scratch in Game #1...but it was hard to add it up using the video because it was hard to see how many pins were still standing....given there were so many of them!

SO....SUMMARY ANALYSIS of GAME !:
Score: Mwhite won scratch...but only because he had a lucky spare conversion and a through-the nose strike...between those 2 GIFTS...that's 18-20 pins...that means he'd have ended with a 114-116...which would have tied or lost to both ZDawg and I scratch.

Who threw the BEST SHOTS??
NOT EVEN CLOSE

Aslan takes 5.5 (of 10) points.
MWhite takes 3 points.
ZDawg takes 1.5 points.

Now, we can do this AGAIN for games 2 and 3....but despite the "Excuse-o-Rama"; MWhite....the video evidence speaks for itself.

Mudpuppy Cliff Notes: Aslan won...but they all bowled about as good as a toddler with vertigo or a lame chimpanzee.

[fokai73]

Holy moly! That's a long read! Got get coffee for this...

Might be good!

[Aslan]

I forgot....back on topic...Mike is kinda right about that...it is annoying when you forget to enter a frame...then you have to go back frame-by frame and re-do it. And that happens a LOT....many a league night I've went up thinking it was the 9th because on Pinpal it was supposed to be the 9th...only to realize I forgot to enter my strike in frame #3.

Where I differ in opinion with MW....is it takes roughly 50 seconds to fix it...

Also...concerning the infamous Temecula tournament...I actually picked ZDawg to win...and he almost did.

My Reasoning was proved to be sound.

ZDawg was getting the most handicap...but if you look at his scores...his handicap was based off his first leagues he ever bowled in...and he had gotten much better since then.

In addition to that, MWhite and I were, at that time, more dependent on lane conditions. Mike bowls very well at his home center...but rarely bowls outside that center. I, at that time, was bowling primarily on wood lanes...my average on wood lanes was 165...but my average on synthetic lanes was 139-149.

I figured Mike's advantage would be spare shooting....where he was certainly going to be better than ZDawg and myself. And while that didn't happen in Game 1; if you watch Game 2 and Game 3...he was johnny on the spot regarding spares.

Obviously...I lucked out...because I bowled well enough to stay competitive and both ZDawg and Mwhite really struggled...and as MW as said...my straighter, lower rev, higher speed shot actually helped me on those lane conditions because as long as I didn't miss right...I didn't have to worry about an over-reaction .

I don't think we were bowling on a "reverse-block" like MW claims. I think we were bowling on a standard THS...possibly oiled out to the 9-board...so a little wider than we were used to...and it may have been shorter. It seemed to behave a lot like a shorter sport pattern...where missing right was OOB...but the pattern is too short to miss inside. Normally I'd suspect carry-down from house balls up the right side as why the right was so OOBs on a house shot...but they CLAIMED they oiled the lanes that morning. I have my doubts...because I was the first person there....before it even opened...and I don't recall seeing the guy with the oil machine. That could be why Mike was struggling...a lot of RHers with plastic and urethane....firing it up the right side all day Saturday...and you could have oil pushed down to the breakpoint...and not as much left in the center as he's used to.

But I don't understand why he even brings UP Temecula. If I were him...I'd want to erase that from my memory!! He's a FAR better bowler than that video indicates... Is ZDawg far better than that indicates? I don't know. ZDawg struggled in both this event and the Murrieta event. And that's all I have to go on for ZDawg. But I've watched MWhite bowl quite a bit...and when he's dialed in...he's a 190s average bowler. But...when you make him move around....whether it was Temecula, Murrieta, wood lanes in Anaheim, or even Vegas...he's vulnerable.

If people want a 3ABHMAVZSCI...I'm sure Mike wants revenge...and I'm always game...but I believe ZDawg is injured and the only way I'm bowling MW using an inflated 190 average is if we bowl at AMF Carter in Fullerton....where that 190 average is from. Otherwise...I want my 167-174 average. And none of the "scratch" nonsense...anyone that reads my epic tales in the "Aslan Scores" thread KNOWS I'm not a 199 average bowler like MW. I'll be willing to take 85% of 210...using 174 as my average and 199 as his...but we need at least one other competitor to bowl in ZDawg's spot. If ZDawg is feeling better and wants to do it again...that's cool too...but it's gonna limit our locations a bit. Corona is a nightmare traffic-wise right now. If we find a new location (other than Murrieta or Temecula)...we're looking at Oceanside (which is a 3-4 hour drive for MW) or Orange County (which is a 2-3 hour drive for ZDawg) or Yucca Valley/Palm desert which is a 4-5 hour drive for me. If me an MW are driving 4-5 hours...we might as well do a Vegas event...except then I gotta worry about MW and Rob fighting...which given each of their health...is a no-win situation for either of them...and I don't have Iceman or Mudpuppy there to serve as bouncers.

Not to mention...I suck tremendously in Vegas...unless it's at Red Rock...but if I remember correctly...that place is expensive. If we had a sponsor...we could rent out one of those private lanes...put down whatever pattern we want...but when I inquired about those lanes the guy at the desk said something about $800 for 2 hours?? Yeah...that's not happening.

[Mike White]

....the video evidence speaks for itself.

While the video does speak for itself, your description of what was happening is far from accurate.

The right side of the lane had a lot of oil (and NO dry area) while the middle had a lot of dry area.

The video shows when I or Zdawg got the ball out to the right it didn't hook, and if it was in towards the middle it over hooked.

The flood of oil didn't have a significant effect on you because even to this day, you struggle to take advantage of when there is dry area to the right.

You claim in the 7th I threw the ball thru the nose, but if I did, how could I have left the 5 pin in that split?

What you seem to miss is after the 6th frame, I made a MAJOR adjustment to the left so the ball could avoid the right side of the lane.

My first shot over there went brooklyn (not thru the nose) and left the 7 - 9 split.

Thats not a spare ANYONE expects to pick up, but I gave it the best chance possible. Throw hard and hope to bounce a pin back onto the lane.

And BINGO, it worked.

As for not wanting to wait 2 hours to have the desk person fix the score, you neglect to include that later on when I missed a 7 pin spare attempt, and the ball bounced back and hit the 7 pin, you didn't hesitate to have the desk person fix the score, even if it might take 2 hours, and somehow it was corrected right away.

As for your multi pins going towards the 10 pin, therefore you "knew" you would have made it. When you get to the point where you can hit the pocket more frequently you'll find no matter how good you think you hit the pocket, frequently that 10 pin can find a way to avoid all the pins sent in it's direction.

As for years of bowling, the game has changed so much that you would think anything pre-1990 isn't useful today.

So I didn't start bowling again until 2012, which I believe is close to when you started.

In that time you've probably bowled 3-4 times as many games of practice/league than I have.

So experience on modern conditions, should indicate you've had plenty of opportunity to exceed what I have achieved.

The problem is, you've wasted a lot of that time by focusing on techniques that are either beyond your current capabilities, or are fundamentally wrong.

[Aslan]

Mudpuppy Cliff Notes:

1ABHMAVZSCI (Temecula) Champion: ASLAN
Virtual Bowling Tour Champion: MWHITE
Wood Lane Scratch Challenge Champion: ASLAN
Aslan vs. Iceman Scratch Challenge (Vegas): MWHITE (Actually RobM won, Mudpuppy finished 2nd, MWhite 3rd, Iceman 4th, Aslan 5th...if I remember correctly...but it still counts as a head-to-head win for MWhite against me because he finished higher.)
2ABHMAVZSCI (Murrieta) Champion: ASLAN

So...watch the videos...review the above ledger...Aslan is 3-2 against MWhite in head-to-head competition.

Now, in "Excuses competition"...it's not even a fair fight. I mean, I can't possibly think up excuses the way MW can...he beats me hands down...I'll need some 'excuse handicap' to even be competitive.

[Mike White]

I forgot....back on topic...Mike is kinda right about that...it is annoying when you forget to enter a frame...then you have to go back frame-by frame and re-do it. And that happens a LOT....many a league night I've went up thinking it was the 9th because on Pinpal it was supposed to be the 9th...only to realize I forgot to enter my strike in frame #3.

Where I differ in opinion with MW....is it takes roughly 50 seconds to fix it...

Well it might normally only take 50 seconds, but if you notice in the video, it took long enough that you edited out the time we waited.

And when you did continue, we were talking about how long the delay was.

As evidence, when I bounced the 7 pin, it took 60 seconds from the moment I hit the 7 pin, until the time the score was fixed.

I know that because you didn't feel the need to edit those 60 seconds out.

So clearly your choice to edit out the time where you fixed your phone indicates the delay was more significant.

[Aslan]

Hmmm....I wonder which is the bigger scandal....Gary Falkner and Graham Fach winning PBA majors with illegal bowling balls....

OR

...the edited time from the 1st Annual Billy Hardwick Memorial Aslan vs. ZDawg Southern California Invitational...where Aslan apparently required a couple minutes to update his Pinpal phone App....

That's a tough one. A real morality showdown.

Attacking my Pinpal courtesy isn't going to change the video footage that clearly shows you were obliterated in competition any more than me buying tighter pants is going to make me skinnier. Instead of trying to re-write history...why don't you go get some practice in (bowling)...so next time you'll have a better shot?? Hmmm?

http://www.deanmackey.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/you_got_served1.jpg

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/ee/43/d8/ee43d8279ed0583507a5c2f2f2b187dd.jpg

[Mike White]

In addition to that, MWhite and I were, at that time, more dependent on lane conditions.

No, the point is you weren't dependent on lane conditions.

You were going to bowl like crap regardless of what oil pattern they put out.

Where you benefited was your handicap was based on you bowling like crap.




Obviously...I lucked out...because I bowled well enough to stay competitive and both ZDawg and Mwhite really struggled...and as MW as said...my straighter, lower rev, higher speed shot actually helped me on those lane conditions because as long as I didn't miss right...I didn't have to worry about an over-reaction .



Lucked out is right, ZDawg and I rolled the ball attempting to get a reasonable back end reaction, you just tugged the ball at the head pin.






I don't think we were bowling on a "reverse-block" like MW claims. I think we were bowling on a standard THS...possibly oiled out to the 9-board...so a little wider than we were used to...and it may have been shorter. It seemed to behave a lot like a shorter sport pattern...where missing right was OOB...but the pattern is too short to miss inside. Normally I'd suspect carry-down from house balls up the right side as why the right was so OOBs on a house shot...but they CLAIMED they oiled the lanes that morning. I have my doubts...because I was the first person there....before it even opened...and I don't recall seeing the guy with the oil machine. That could be why Mike was struggling...a lot of RHers with plastic and urethane....firing it up the right side all day Saturday...and you could have oil pushed down to the breakpoint...and not as much left in the center as he's used to.



This is classic, you've read the words, but don't seem to have any idea what they mean.

First you think it was a standard THS, maybe 9 to 9, then you think it's a sports pattern because there was lots of OB.

There is no way a THS 9 to 9 will have anywhere near the OB that a sport pattern has.

You weren't the first person there, I was sitting in my car in the parking lot waiting for them to open because it was raining.

You may have gone thru the doors first, but your observation skills clearly were as bad as when you reviewed the video.

They were running the lanes while we waited.

They were using a Brunswick Authority machine, which has 39 independent jets (like fuel injectors) to apply oil, so no pattern is impossible on those.

If what they put out had been a THS 9 to 9, ZDawg and myself wouldn't have had any trouble getting the ball to hook outside.

You on the other hand can throw gutter balls just as easily on a THS as on a sport condition.

The first time you came to Arlington, while trying to hit 2nd arrow, you managed to have multiple balls in the gutter in the first 15 feet.

I wouldn't have recommended any ball for you, I would have recommended a leg brace, and a liability insurance policy, because your first step was so ugly it looked like your leg was broken in 3 places, and you were destined to kill someone bowling near you with your accuracy problems.

[Mike White]

Hmmm....I wonder which is the bigger scandal....Gary Falkner and Graham Fach winning PBA majors with illegal bowling balls....

OR

...the edited time from the 1st Annual Billy Hardwick Memorial Aslan vs. ZDawg Southern California Invitational...where Aslan apparently required a couple minutes to update his Pinpal phone App....

That's a tough one. A real morality showdown.

Attacking my Pinpal courtesy isn't going to change the video footage that clearly shows you were obliterated in competition any more than me buying tighter pants is going to make me skinnier. Instead of trying to re-write history...why don't you go get some practice in (bowling)...so next time you'll have a better shot?? Hmmm?



Again, that video doesn't show me being obliterated, if anything it shows you losing.

There is nothing in that video that explains why I had to give you so much handicap.

[Aslan]

So you're NOT going to practice??

And you can actually keep a straight face while trying to explain...how a maintenance guy...on a Sunday morning...will just up and decide to lay down a "reverse block" pattern. No reason...no directions to do so...no real reasoning whatsoever....he just showed up for work...pulled the machine out and thought, "Hmmm. Ya know...we always put down a THS....but I'm feeling a little saucey today...I wonder what would happen if...ya know...what if I just changed all the oil jets and invented my own pattern??!!"

That's absurd. You know that's absurd. You know the liklihood of that happening is actually LESS than him forgetting to put oil in the machine and just pushing it up and down without applying anything. It's a ridiculous premise.

Just practice. I'd like to at LEAST eliminate the "I haven't practiced recently" excuse from the MWhite Encyclopedia of Excuses. I can't eliminate random people showing up and drastically changing oil patterns for no apparent reason...but lets at least remove the "I haven't practiced lately". Then, at the 3ABHMAVZSCI...I'll have the maintenance guy swear under oath to the pattern he applied...and I'll have him spend as much time as necessary to clean the approaches and make them absolutely perfect...we'll try to create a perfect environment for you...void of any reasons this new bowler with his impossibly funky first step....could ever defeat you.

Granted, I'll still win...but maybe we keep it competitive this time??

[Aslan]

Again, that video doesn't show me being obliterated, if anything it shows you losing.

There is nothing in that video that explains why I had to give you so much handicap.

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/d7/0c/6c/d70c6c33df8d9cf00a129b3a095d5a72.jpg

Actually he's right....after watching that video...I shoulda gave him nearly as much handicap as I gave ZDawg!!!

[Mike White]

So you're NOT going to practice??

And you can actually keep a straight face while trying to explain...how a maintenance guy...on a Sunday morning...will just up and decide to lay down a "reverse block" pattern. No reason...no directions to do so...no real reasoning whatsoever....he just showed up for work...pulled the machine out and thought, "Hmmm. Ya know...we always put down a THS....but I'm feeling a little saucey today...I wonder what would happen if...ya know...what if I just changed all the oil jets and invented my own pattern??!!"

That's absurd. You know that's absurd. You know the liklihood of that happening is actually LESS than him forgetting to put oil in the machine and just pushing it up and down without applying anything. It's a ridiculous premise.

Just practice. I'd like to at LEAST eliminate the "I haven't practiced recently" excuse from the MWhite Encyclopedia of Excuses. I can't eliminate random people showing up and drastically changing oil patterns for no apparent reason...but lets at least remove the "I haven't practiced lately". Then, at the 3ABHMAVZSCI...I'll have the maintenance guy swear under oath to the pattern he applied...and I'll have him spend as much time as necessary to clean the approaches and make them absolutely perfect...we'll try to create a perfect environment for you...void of any reasons this new bowler with his impossibly funky first step....could ever defeat you.

Granted, I'll still win...but maybe we keep it competitive this time??

The chance of that happening is actually much larger when you factor in incompetence, lack of maintenance, and an owner that knows and cares zero about the sport of bowling.

Alex may know a bit about dentistry, because thats what his daddy did.

Alex didn't earn the money to build bowling centers, his daddy did, but then when daddy got bored, daddy gave them to sonny boy.

[Aslan]

Alright...all that may be true...and probably is...but ya can't trash talk me...then randomly trash talk two other people.

It's confusing. Now I'm just confused.

http://cdn.meme.am/instances/500x/61673341.jpg

What were we talking about before Me and MW went all medevil trash talk?? PinPal. Yeah; it's cool. I wish the iOS files would transfer to my Samsung though....now I might be stuck buying an iPhone in a year or so....stupid Apple ruining my life. :(

[Mike White]

Alright...all that may be true...and probably is...but ya can't trash talk me...then randomly trash talk two other people.

It's confusing. Now I'm just confused.



Thats because you are easily confused.


Incompetence and improper maintenance.

How do you keep this from happening in a bowling center you own..

1) Know enough about what the machine is doing to recognize when it's not doing it right.
2) Care enough to make sure your employees are doing their job correctly.

The owner fails on both counts.

[Mike White]

So you're NOT going to practice??

And you can actually keep a straight face while trying to explain...how a maintenance guy...on a Sunday morning...will just up and decide to lay down a "reverse block" pattern. No reason...no directions to do so...no real reasoning whatsoever....he just showed up for work...pulled the machine out and thought, "Hmmm. Ya know...we always put down a THS....but I'm feeling a little saucey today...I wonder what would happen if...ya know...what if I just changed all the oil jets and invented my own pattern??!!"

That's absurd. You know that's absurd. You know the liklihood of that happening is actually LESS than him forgetting to put oil in the machine and just pushing it up and down without applying anything. It's a ridiculous premise.

You seem to think the "reverse block" pattern is some mythical beast. The unicorn of bowling.

It's not.

Even Storm thought is was important enough to produce a video about it.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uXLQVKzqX1E

[Aslan]

On the last PBA telecast, Randy Peterson also talked about petting and strangling kittens....I don't think I'd put a great deal of thought into it.

But...LOOK!! A video informing you on how to play the pattern!!

Strike one item from the MW Encyclopedia of Excuses!

;)

[Mike White]

On the last PBA telecast, Randy Peterson also talked about petting and strangling kittens....I don't think I'd put a great deal of thought into it.

But...LOOK!! A video informing you on how to play the pattern!!

Strike one item from the MW Encyclopedia of Excuses!

;)

Now stop and think for a moment, he gave two suggestions....

1) play outside... I tried that.. ball skidded.

2) play deep inside, I tried that.. it works a whole lot better.

I already knew how to play that kind of condition, I just didn't expect to see it since they had just run the machine.

Petting the kitty is the same idea where Rob says don't lift the ball.

It may be ok if you have Pro level skills, but your average Joe trying that is going to suffer from dead ball syndrome.

Oh wait... thats you.

[Mike White]

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/d7/0c/6c/d70c6c33df8d9cf00a129b3a095d5a72.jpg

Actually he's right....after watching that video...I shoulda gave him nearly as much handicap as I gave ZDawg!!!

Here again, reality is not your friend.

If you gave me ANY handicap you would have lost, because I beat you scratch.

[Mike White]

Here again, reality is not your friend.

If you gave me ANY handicap you would have lost, because I beat you scratch.

P.S. at this rate, I just might make the 5000 post level before the day is done.

[NewToBowling]

Can't wait for next challenge. Might have to hire security

[classygranny]

Great hi-jack to what could have been a good thread with different theories and opinions of stats. Way to go kids!

[Mike White]

Great hi-jack to what could have been a good thread with different theories and opinions of stats. Way to go kids!

Stats are about the past.

The most important shot is the next one you're about to throw.

[Mike White]

When it comes to recording POCKET hits or miss I do this......

Each game I record each frame with these letters, numbers, and symbols to represent my pocket entry. I go onto "game Detail" and record it after each frame. It seems a bit too much but it's really not. I started this 3 weeks ago and it actually helps me to remember what happened the last time I was on that lane and hopefully make the right adjustments.

here's a sample:

Game 1: H (high)8 @11, L (light), F (flush), B (brook), M (miss), H8,F20,F9,L9,H8@10,F20@9,L9@8 end.
#Lane 11 spot on 10/9 foot on 25; lane 12 spot on 9/8 foot on 24

The numbers 8 20 and 9 after the letter is where my ball ended up at the pin deck. I could hit flush, but the ball deflected, for example.
The numbers after the @ symbol is the board where my ball crossed. It maybe the one I'm looking at or not lol.

You can create or customize your way of taking data on pocket hits. I do this because I have ADD and I have short term memory. I remember where I stood on the last shot, but I don't remember what happened the last frame lol. this helps me.

Game 1: H20@10, F20@9, M, L9@7, H8@11, .........and so on.



Update/Note: since doing this, I'm posting shots more, I'm aware of what's happening on every shot, and remembering lol.

My old lady just told me to do this format instead lol.

board crossed, hit, and left, center, right at the pin deck = 10HL, 10FC, 12LR

she's smart :D


Years ago my notes includes what I was attempting to do, what I actually did, and the results.

It took quite a while to get what I actually did, to get close to what I was attempting to do.

[Timmyb]

Any thought to just going out and bowling? I use PinPal, but just to keep track of my scores. I don't record every blow by blow, don't throw a bazillion games per week, and don't fret too much about this or that lane condition. I move and throw the damn ball. Through all of that, I manage to keep a 200+ average. I have weeks when I suck, and weeks when I don't, but I couldn't go back and tell you what I did to correct a thing during a previous week. I think sometimes people overthink this game.

[fokai73]

Years ago my notes includes what I was attempting to do, what I actually did, and the results.

It took quite a while to get what I actually did, to get close to what I was attempting to do.

Above In the note section, I also note what area I'm targeting. Then when I go home, or the next day or two, I tally how many times I hit my target or miss it.

[Tony]

Any thought to just going out and bowling? I use PinPal, but just to keep track of my scores. I don't record every blow by blow, don't throw a bazillion games per week, and don't fret too much about this or that lane condition. I move and throw the damn ball. Through all of that, I manage to keep a 200+ average. I have weeks when I suck, and weeks when I don't, but I couldn't go back and tell you what I did to correct a thing during a previous week. I think sometimes people overthink this game.

I agree, some of the best advice I've ever gotten about bowling turned out to be, quit thinking and just throw the darn ball.
But as we can see with this thread sometimes people would prefer to analyze, over-analyze and repeat,

[NewToBowling]

I agree, some of the best advice I've ever gotten about bowling turned out to be, quit thinking and just throw the darn ball.
But as we can see with this thread sometimes people would prefer to analyze, over-analyze and repeat,

I agree with you to an extent. Which is kind of why PinPal doesn't have stats beyond basics (strikes, spares, etc). No angle of entry, pocket or Brooklyn, etc.

I like the stats just like how PinPal is set up. Anything beyond that and it does get to be a bit much. With how the app is now it literally takes a second to input frames.

[fokai73]

Lol I knew ppl will perceive my note taking as over thinking, (mr. Ph.D. was right too) but it's actually the opposite. Its takes the thinking part out of it. It's an advice I took from someone who works with pro athletes. (Not bowlers - from cyclist to the NFL) I believe bowling's own mental coach dean Hintz has something similar in his program... Anyway

It was a mental excersise that I turned into my post shot routine. Because there's a method and purpose to what I do, less thinking is involved. And it works too. All the analyzing goes into practices sessions not during leagues. If you played chess, my note taking is just that. But unlike chess players, I stop thinking between frames and when I'm on the approach. There's a tiny window for thinking.

my goal is to Increase average in sport conditions from 5 years ago (198). And to "just bowl" is for the moment, it's not a bad thing for sure, but that's a different purpose on its own. But that thinking isn't going to help in reaching my goals. Bowling on a wall shot like we do doesn't show the true skill level of a bowler. It hides it.

I'd put $50-$100 side action on sport patterns vs. $5-$20 on a house shot. "Just bowl" and "just bowl with a purpose" are two different things.

[Mike White]

I agree, some of the best advice I've ever gotten about bowling turned out to be, quit thinking and just throw the darn ball.
But as we can see with this thread sometimes people would prefer to analyze, over-analyze and repeat,

Bowling is easy if you are willing to accept what ever skill level you are at when you start bowling.

You get what you get, and thats what you are.

Once you try to be better than that, you can't just throw the darn ball.

The issue I have with lane conditions is, it allows the "just throw the darn ball" crowd to reach honor score levels.

That diminishes the value of having achieved an honor score on conditions where you couldn't "just throw the darn ball" and have a chance.

[Aslan]

Great hi-jack to what could have been a good thread with different theories and opinions of stats. Way to go kids!

I don't think that'll count as "contributing" per the ball giveaway rules. You might need to most one more time this week.

[classygranny]

I don't think that'll count as "contributing" per the ball giveaway rules. You might need to most one more time this week.

It contributed as much as most of the posts I read this week. But just in case you are right, here's my one more post. (:>

And back to the stats (yes, those past numbers - that some people use as goals). What do you think should be a goal for a first ball average for someone wanting to obtain a 200 average. And along with that, what should the open % be?

[Mike White]

It contributed as much as most of the posts I read this week. But just in case you are right, here's my one more post. (:>

And back to the stats (yes, those past numbers - that some people use as goals). What do you think should be a goal for a first ball average for someone wanting to obtain a 200 average. And along with that, what should the open % be?

In the past, if you made 40% strikes you were looking good, and when you didn't strike, the mistake was fairly minor, so your average pin count was probably 9.2 or so.
The important thing is missing a single pin spare was like committing a crime.

Now you see strike percentages are higher, but since there is so much help by the oil, to not strike usually means the shot was so bad even the oil couldn't help it back, so you see more 6-7 counts.
And spare shooting is a lost art.

So averaging 200 the old way, pin count average 9.2, opens maybe 1 per night so according to the stats that would be 1/30 or 3% opens.

The new way you could probably get away with an 8.8 pin count average, and 3 to 4 opens per night for 10-13%, as long as your strike % is north of 55%

The stat program doesn't seem to count opens per spare attempts, just opens per frame.

[Aslan]

It contributed as much as most of the posts I read this week. But just in case you are right, here's my one more post. (:>
That's why I've posted 5200 times. Granted, 96% are useless...but I figure 4% will qualify me to win a ball. :)


And back to the stats (yes, those past numbers - that some people use as goals). What do you think should be a goal for a first ball average for someone wanting to obtain a 200 average. And along with that, what should the open % be?
Rule #1: Don't listen to Mike. All his advice is based on how bowling sucks nowadays and he wants to invent a time machine. Granted, a time machine would be cool...but highly unlikely.

Where Mike's advice is incorrect is his assumption that nowadays everyone should all average 225 and if they don't, they're horrible. Granted....he barely averages 200...but that's not the point. The POINT is...there certainly is a difference between a pocket hit that leaves a 10-pin or 7-pin or 6-10....and a shot through the nose that leaves a 7-pin or a 4-pin or a 4-7.

If you watch the pros...watch what they leave. It's X, X, X, X , X, 10-pin, X, 7-pin, X, X, X, X.

What you don't see is 1-2-4, 5-pin, 1-2-8, 1-2-4-7, 2-4-5, etc... Most 200 average bowlers I've seen fit into one of two categories:

1) Power, high rev, thumbless, palm bowlers that generate a poo ton of revs and just spin it to the breakpoint. As long as they are fresh and the conditions are fresh...they strike a lot...and even thought their spare shooting is sub-par (usually)...they can average around 200.

2) Strokers and Tweeners that know the house they are bowling in...they know the line to play...they know how to adjust...they are very consistent...and excellent spare shooters. They usually can't string enough strikes together to be higher than 250...but they almost are 180+.

While both these groups are drastically different...the one thing they have in common is they don't leave a lot of multi-pin spares that aren't splits. A LOT of pocket hits that leave a 10-pin or 7-pin. Group #1 "sometimes" leaves weird leaves...if they screw up....because of the often times crazy entry angles they get...but I'd say both these groups probably have a first ball average between 8.9 and 9.2.

The problem with first ball average is it doesn't give you much information other than you are consistently around the headpin. You may have a horrible shot....horrible form....bad carry...all kinds of bad things...but if you can get around that head pin...your first ball average won't suck.