questions on bowling ballls and such....

[jimgilmore]

I have a question that I am not sure if anybody knows the real answer too. Most times I talk about the amount of hook and such people talk about the amount of energy the ball hits the pins with, which is a bit confusing and also it is being confused with the the main reason a ball is hooked in the first place. I know I have seen some videos and know studies have been done though I have never seen them listed or present in a clear way telling how much the balls being used weighed.
The most recent video i watch was I believed done by a japanese professonal bowler where they dropped a ball down a ramp showing that when it hit the headpin at about from 3-5 degrees it resulted in a strike every time.But to roll that ball straight at that location you would have to be in the adjourning lane.
The only reason for having the ball hit before the potential energy of the ball is lost is to widen the impact point that will result in the same result.
What I have never seen is how ball weight affects that angle needed to get the strike on every shot in regards to the location.
Has anyone ever see a study using balls of different weights ??

[JasonNJ]

I've posted this video before but this should explain a lot.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S5p5T4JIuqU

Weight is a factor but not as huge as you think, I seen older guys in my league throw 10-12 pound balls and still strike frequently, its amount getting to the pocket with the right amount of energy which the video explains.

[Mike White]

I've posted this video before but this should explain a lot.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S5p5T4JIuqU

Weight is a factor but not as huge as you think, I seen older guys in my league throw 10-12 pound balls and still strike frequently, its amount getting to the pocket with the right amount of energy which the video explains.

My favorite slide in that video is "The ball needs to leave the pin deck over the 20 board. This is maximize your Strike Percentage".

If you release the ball over the 20 board, hit the arrows over the 20 board, and finally hit the head pin over the 20 board, your ball will exit the pin deck over the 20 board, but your Strike Percentage is pretty close to 0%.

They don't include a video of that, because that doesn't represent evidence of their claim.

So when you say "Its about getting to the pocket with the right amount of energy" you're a lot more accurate than the video is.

Notice in the video when they claim the ball exits the pin deck too far left, it also hits the head pin too far left, and likewise when it exits too far right, it hits the head pin too far right.

Since they are commenting about the exit, you are concentrating on the exit. But if you watch again, and concentrate on where the ball hits the head pin, you'll see "it's about getting to the pocket", and less about exiting the pin deck.

When they show a shot not work, and claim it's because of where the ball exits, it also hits the head pin incorrectly. Then when they change balls, the better shot hits the head pin properly, and exits properly.

They use that as evidence that where it exits is of prime importance. It's not, it's a side effect of hitting the head pin properly with good angle of entry.

[Doghouse Reilly]

When they show a shot not work, and claim it's because of where the ball exits, it also hits the head pin incorrectly. Then when they change balls, the better shot hits the head pin properly, and exits properly.

They use that as evidence that where it exits is of prime importance. It's not, it's a side effect of hitting the head pin properly with good angle of entry.

Their not claiming that where the ball exits caused a shot to not work.

Their just saying that by watching where the ball exits, just that it's a indicator to how you hit the pocket and what you might need to adjust to correct your shot.

And just because they didn't throw a ball straight down the middle of the lane on the 20 board, doesn't prove them wrong.

[jimgilmore]

Actually what they are really implying is that by watching your PROPERLY thrown ball and seeing where it goes and how it leaves the pindeck can help you decided on a change. That change could or should come after you have exhausted the other variables though.
As to where the ball leaves the pindeck, it is a function of the angle going in and resulting angle after it hits the pins it hits. That sum of actions will almost always produce the same results because bowling is very much like billiards and they both are very dependent on math.

[Mike White]

Their not claiming that where the ball exits caused a shot to not work.

Their just saying that by watching where the ball exits, just that it's a indicator to how you hit the pocket and what you might need to adjust to correct your shot.

And just because they didn't throw a ball straight down the middle of the lane on the 20 board, doesn't prove them wrong.

At 1:32 the slide says "The Weak 10 pin is caused by the ball leaving the pin deck over the 9 pin spot".

That is EXACTLY them claiming where the ball exits caused a shot not to work.

At 4:12 the slide says

If the ball leaves the pin deck over...
9 pin spot = weak 10 pin
Towards 9 pin = Ringing 10
Towards 8 pin = 4 pin
8 pin spot = 9 pin

Now you might assume they meant that if the ball hits the pocket first, then where it exits is an indicator, but their choice of video examples clearly shows they didn't make that assumption.

[jimgilmore]

1- I do not believe that they are claiming that you make 1 shot and see what happens and make a change..
2-If you do make a good shot and the ball leaves the deck over the 9 pin spot you will most likely leave a ringing 9 pin...
They are stating cause and effect. And this all assumes 1. that you had made a good shot 2.no pins were blatently off their mark and 3. most likely that what you should do ball wise is. assuming that you have already done other changes as in ball speed,hand position, or release...
That's the way I take what they are saying.
A few of those shots look to me to not actually be great shots and as such are bad examples...even a few of the strikes...
But hey I am just an observer here....

[Doghouse Reilly]

I don't think there was anything wrong with their choice of videos.

I think the slide at 1:32 just wasn't worded as well as it could have been and that they didn't mean that where the ball exited "Caused" the weak 10 or "caused" any of those leaves.

Just they were trying say that where the ball exited was a indicator of what happened in regard to how the ball traveled through the pin deck to cause a particular leave.

Especially when you take into a count what they said before that at 1:17 about "Here's what happens, when you don't have the proper ball motion thru the Pin deck."

Yes this all might be just a assumption, But I think it's accurate assumption and most people would understand what they are trying to say.

jimgilmore's post's is a good example it shows he understood what they were trying to show.

You just can't discredit everything just because it might not be worded well.