Rev Dominant or Hi Track Tips to Improve

[bobforsaken]

So in my ever evolving game I've taken a huge step back in terms of score but a huge improvement in terms of carry and strike percentage on pocket hits. For those connecting the dots... yes.. I'm having issues hitting the pocket consistently and when I do (and don't strike) its almost always a 4 pin. Longer sport patterns I don't have as much problem and have been scoring better on Paris than my center's house shot. They recently changed to Kegel Fire for lane conditioner which have made things worse, but I've struggled for months.

As for my evolving game, I've started getting more revolutions and my Track is very high. My speed is slower and I'm, at this point, Rev Dominant. I've benched all of my low RG stuff and my current arsenal consists of a Hy-Road Pearl with an extremely large Pin to Pap... A pin Down Hy-Road... (about 4 inch pin to pap) and a Pin up Ride... (about 4 inch pin to pap).

So here is the ongoing problem.. I get so much midlane reaction that I often end up playing standing about 30 to 35 and targeting 15 to 20 at the arrows with the Storm Ride just to get the ball to the right of the head pin.. and sometimes that is even too much ball. I find myself playing, what I feel are, extremely sharp angles through the front... like 30 to 15 and sometimes even 34 to 15 or 16. (my offset is about 7 boards and my drift tends to be left and 2 boards or less) If I can get the ball right, it breaks so hard at the end of the pattern that it is hitting high in the pocket or going brooklyn on the house shot. With the House shot "funnel" it seems like its funneling me High or brooklyn.. not to the 1-3 pocket.

So are these angles really not that extreme and I'm just trying to get used to having a better rev rate than before? Or should I really focus more on getting my speed higher because my Rev Dominance is why the "funnel" of the THS seems to be sending me High all the time?... Should I really just get better at playing what I feel are extreme angles... or should I focus on getting more speed to better balance my Rev Rate/Track with my speed?

I'm not exactly sure what everything is but I'd say I'm about 300 RPM's.. very high track with almost 0 tilt.. and probably about 14 to 15 MPH.

[1VegasBowler]

It sounds like more of a drilling issue that is making your equipment so aggressive.

I too am rev dominant with a speed of about 14mph. However, my DV8 Vandal is drilled pin up with a 60x5x30 and it eats up a THS targeting the 10 board.

And if the lanes are burned out, I can go 30 to 10 and hit the pocket darn near every time.

If you're leaving a lot of 4 pins then the ball is hitting the head pin too high, and depending on the lane conditions, you might want to get your target to the right by anywhere from 2-4 boards.

[bobforsaken]

It sounds like more of a drilling issue that is making your equipment so aggressive.

I too am rev dominant with a speed of about 14mph. However, my DV8 Vandal is drilled pin up with a 60x5x30 and it eats up a THS targeting the 10 board.

And if the lanes are burned out, I can go 30 to 10 and hit the pocket darn near every time.

If you're leaving a lot of 4 pins then the ball is hitting the head pin too high, and depending on the lane conditions, you might want to get your target to the right by anywhere from 2-4 boards.

Wow.. 30 (standing) to 10 (at the arrows?) I never play that steep of an angle I'm usually around the 15 board for a target at the arrows when standing at 30.. and maybe that is my problem. Maybe I do need more angle through the front. As for my equipment I'm going to be doing many more 5 inch pin to pap on future equipment. As it stands now my Ride has been my go to ball playing around that 30 to 15 line with as much speed as I can muster. On fresh I can get away for a short while playing 24 to 12 or 26 to 13 if I play with my top speed. I did that this afternoon and bowled a decent set in practice. My Hy-road pearl (with about a 6+ inch pin-pap) allowed me to play 20 to 10 and 22 to 11 on fresh... but it flares so little that if don't get out clean I can hear it thump over the middle finger and thumb hole all the way down the lane causing inconsistent reaction, which is why I don't use it more.

[RobLV1]

You've done the right thing in terms of your arsenal, and your problem is not the layout you're using. Since you track the ball so high, the forward rotation causes the ball to hook early. Make sure you are using balls with very little surface. I have the same high track issues, and am currently using polished balls exclusively in most houses just to help me to get the ball down the lane. You might also try changing your hand position slightly by cocking your wrist in an inward direction to put more pressure on your middle finger and less on your ring finger in order to increase your axis tilt and lower your track. By using longer pin to PAP distances you are simply making the ball less aggressive which also decreases your carry once you do get it to the pocket.

[Amyers]

You've done the right thing in terms of your arsenal, and your problem is not the layout you're using. Since you track the ball so high, the forward rotation causes the ball to hook early. Make sure you are using balls with very little surface. I have the same high track issues, and am currently using polished balls exclusively in most houses just to help me to get the ball down the lane. You might also try changing your hand position slightly by cocking your wrist in an inward direction to put more pressure on your middle finger and less on your ring finger in order to increase your axis tilt and lower your track. By using longer pin to PAP distances you are simply making the ball less aggressive which also decreases your carry once you do get it to the pocket.

I would also suggest trying out moving your pinkie finger in towards your ring finger at the setup this can help you develop a little more side rotation which might alleviate some of the problem.

[bobforsaken]

I would also suggest trying out moving your pinkie finger in towards your ring finger at the setup this can help you develop a little more side rotation which might alleviate some of the problem. Thanks.. My pinkie is next to my ring finger at the setup at this point. I've gone back to tucking recently too, which helps me get out of the ball quicker. When I experimented with not tucking I ended up Thumbing the ball off my hand at release and increase my track even more.

[bobforsaken]

You've done the right thing in terms of your arsenal, and your problem is not the layout you're using. Since you track the ball so high, the forward rotation causes the ball to hook early. Make sure you are using balls with very little surface. I have the same high track issues, and am currently using polished balls exclusively in most houses just to help me to get the ball down the lane. You might also try changing your hand position slightly by cocking your wrist in an inward direction to put more pressure on your middle finger and less on your ring finger in order to increase your axis tilt and lower your track. By using longer pin to PAP distances you are simply making the ball less aggressive which also decreases your carry once you do get it to the pocket.

Thanks Rob.. I'll try that. My track issues seem to follow my Grip pressure. On days where I'm gripping the ball more I'm almost always thumping the thumb hole. If I can get the fit just right so I can relax my grip completely I'm about a half inch off the thumb hole.

Since you track High as well, can I ask what types of angles you play on a THS. is, say, standing 30 targeting 15 at the arrows about right? That 2 to 1 ratio (40:20 34:17 30:15 20:10 etc) seems to be working a bit better for me than say 26 to 14 or 15 which was something I was doing in the past. It SEEMS like a steep angle to do so to me, but I'm continuing to practice and get more comfortable with it.

[Amyers]

Thanks.. My pinkie is next to my ring finger at the setup at this point. I've gone back to tucking recently too, which helps me get out of the ball quicker. When I experimented with not tucking I ended up Thumbing the ball off my hand at release and increase my track even more.

Wow it amazes me how everyone is different in this game. I really struggle to keep my track within 3" of my thumb I tend to be a little more of a spinner especially if I'm not concentrating on it which causes it's own special problems. Even if I try to deliberately roll the ball over the thumb hole I can't do it lol.

[bobforsaken]

Wow it amazes me how everyone is different in this game. I really struggle to keep my track within 3" of my thumb I tend to be a little more of a spinner especially if I'm not concentrating on it which causes it's own special problems. Even if I try to deliberately roll the ball over the thumb hole I can't do it lol.

My teammate and I have been struggling all year. He is a low track High Rev guy with slower speed. I'm a Medium Rev, High Track with Slower speed. We both can't seem to keep the ball of the head pin, but his tends to jump at the end while mine tends to start hooking too early (unless I get it right too fast, then it jumps). He's had some success with a tropical breeze, pin above the fingers... I'm going to start using my Hy-road pearl with Pin above the middle finger a bit more.... I just need to be better at lowering my track enough to stop the thumping before I can rely on that ball.

[RobLV1]

Thanks Rob.. I'll try that. My track issues seem to follow my Grip pressure. On days where I'm gripping the ball more I'm almost always thumping the thumb hole. If I can get the fit just right so I can relax my grip completely I'm about a half inch off the thumb hole.

Since you track High as well, can I ask what types of angles you play on a THS. is, say, standing 30 targeting 15 at the arrows about right? That 2 to 1 ratio (40:20 34:17 30:15 20:10 etc) seems to be working a bit better for me than say 26 to 14 or 15 which was something I was doing in the past. It SEEMS like a steep angle to do so to me, but I'm continuing to practice and get more comfortable with it.

I try to keep no more than 15 boards between the instep of my left foot and my target AT THE DOTS. Any more than this, and l have to really concentrate on not walking to the right. Example: Standing 28, I will target 13 at the dots.

[bobforsaken]

I try to keep no more than 15 boards between the instep of my left foot and my target AT THE DOTS. Any more than this, and l have to really concentrate on not walking to the right. Example: Standing 28, I will target 13 at the dots.


Wow.. 28 to 13 at the dots! Looks like I need to get more comfortable playing steeper angles. Last night allowed myself to work that 2to1 ratio of standing board and target at the arrows.. I also focused on keeping my grip pressure down and getting my speed up. Ended up with a decent night bowling only my second 600 series in 2016. I stayed with the Ride all night 22 to 11, 24 to 12.. 26 to 13 etc..

[1VegasBowler]

I try to keep the instep of my left foot 10-15 boards left of my target and target the dots.

I have always targeted the dots and you can pretty much see me looking down at the foul line like Wes Mallot does.

[RobLV1]

It sounds like more of a drilling issue that is making your equipment so aggressive.

I too am rev dominant with a speed of about 14mph. However, my DV8 Vandal is drilled pin up with a 60x5x30 and it eats up a THS targeting the 10 board.

And if the lanes are burned out, I can go 30 to 10 and hit the pocket darn near every time.

If you're leaving a lot of 4 pins then the ball is hitting the head pin too high, and depending on the lane conditions, you might want to get your target to the right by anywhere from 2-4 boards.

I hate to disagree, but after having seen you bowl, I can say with assurance that you are NOT rev dominant. On the contrary, throwing 12 lb. bowling balls, you are totally speed dominant and a drilling issue NEVER makes a ball too aggressive, unless the ball was too aggressive to begin with. Just sayin'.

[fordman1]

Do 12 lb. balls even have a weight block. I have asked for advice on here a few times and after looking into profiles I think I will not ask much more. I don't need advice from a bowler who throws a 12 lb. ball off the corner.

[JasonNJ]

Do 12 lb. balls even have a weight block. I have asked for advice on here a few times and after looking into profiles I think I will not ask much more. I don't need advice from a bowler who throws a 12 lb. ball off the corner.

I think it depends on the manufacturer and the ball. Storm will use a generic weight block for under 14 lbs, and depending on the ball and manufacturer they may just use a old pancake block. The one ball I know that uses the same core regardless of weight is the Ebonite Cyclone.

[Amyers]

I hate to disagree, but after having seen you bowl, I can say with assurance that you are NOT rev dominant. On the contrary, throwing 12 lb. bowling balls, you are totally speed dominant and a drilling issue NEVER makes a ball too aggressive, unless the ball was too aggressive to begin with. Just sayin'.

I have no idea if Vegas bowler is speed or rev dominant but I will somewhat disagree with you on the drilling thing. For a bowler who is balanced speed and rev wise it may be hard to put a drilling on a ball that completely won't perform. For bowlers who are speed or rev dominate though it is relatively easy to produce a ball that won't perform adequately by drilling. I could probably double thumb the least aggressive ball on the market and it would still roll out on me before hitting the pins with my lower speed it's just way to early for me. My wife who tends to be more speed dominate isn't going to perform well with a drilling that promotes length even on a pretty aggressive ball. on a lot of patterns it will just never get into a roll for her.

Add in the fact that many bowlers tend to have a preferred sweet spot area they are most comfortable bowling in the correct drilling can allow that bowler to play that area of the lane or play it longer than they could with a different drilling. Cover stock, surface and core are always going to be the biggest factors in where and how a ball rolls best but the correct drilling for your stats and where you tend to play the lanes can make a ball that is a marginal fit work and a good fit work longer. Does that mean I can go drill a Grudge or some super early ball no but it can make some balls a little more useful for me. I've learned enough to buy balls that fit my game but for average joe bowler who buys a ball because it looked good when Tommy Jones threw it or they like that color or that one smells nice it's an important tool.

[Amyers]

Do 12 lb. balls even have a weight block. I have asked for advice on here a few times and after looking into profiles I think I will not ask much more. I don't need advice from a bowler who throws a 12 lb. ball off the corner.

What difference does it make what weight he throws? If he's a high average bowler and understands the game does it make his advice worth less because he throws 12 lbs. balls? I have no idea about him he hasn't been on here that long yet but I wouldn't weigh someone's advice by the weight of the ball they throw or even really the average they hold. Weigh the advice on if they make a salient point that applies to your game. I've seen a lot of bowlers with physical issues that cause them to throw lower weight balls and I've seen a lot of guys who may not hold the highest average but understand the game. I've also seen many high average bowlers who have absolutely no understanding of the game and exist on pure physical ability that many of us will never have. If something is just wrong is gets disputed in here pretty quickly.

[1VegasBowler]

Do 12 lb. balls even have a weight block. I have asked for advice on here a few times and after looking into profiles I think I will not ask much more. I don't need advice from a bowler who throws a 12 lb. ball off the corner.

12 pounders do not have weight blocks.

And to judge me because I throw 12 pound balls shows how you are uninformed about a person and their limitations.

I have had 4 surgeries on my right shoulder, with one of those being major where I had to have my bicep tendon detached and then reattached to my arm with a screw. I have lost 30% of the strength and motion in my shoulder because of this, and I still have issues with it.

I've had to make adjustments to my entire game and the ball weight is just one of them.

I certainly don't profess the be the best out here and never will, but I do know a thing or 2 about bowling sir.

And to show you how misinformed you are, I do not throw off of a corner. On a THS I play the 10 board like most everybody else does. I am also very capable of moving myself to the left to adjust to the transitioning of the lanes.

Then again, you must be a Hall Of Famer with the PBA and/or the USBC to pass judgement on somebody and their abilities.

OR maybe you're just a legend in your own mind and you've been snubbed by the Hall Of Fames because of your self perceived greatness and abilities.

I have no such illusions. I love to bowl and try to do the best I can every time I go out there. And like everybody else, some days I'm the dog, and some days I'm the fire hydrant.

But to be the judge and jury of a person who can not throw a heavy ball is ignorant to facts. But that really doesn't matter to you does it?

Clint Eastwood said it best many years ago as Dirty Harry. Mans got to know his limitations.

[1VegasBowler]

What difference does it make what weight he throws? If he's a high average bowler and understands the game does it make his advice worth less because he throws 12 lbs. balls? I have no idea about him he hasn't been on here that long yet but I wouldn't weigh someone's advice by the weight of the ball they throw or even really the average they hold. Weigh the advice on if they make a salient point that applies to your game. I've seen a lot of bowlers with physical issues that cause them to throw lower weight balls and I've seen a lot of guys who may not hold the highest average but understand the game. I've also seen many high average bowlers who have absolutely no understanding of the game and exist on pure physical ability that many of us will never have. If something is just wrong is gets disputed in here pretty quickly.

Thank you for this sir. I was doing my reply when you posted yours..lol

After being away from this game for 25 years plus, I had to learn how to bowl all over again and this past winter season is the first I have bowled competitively since.

At my time of return in November of 2014 I had not touched a ball or been in an alley for those 25 years. I actually came back as a coach for a high school team. A school that had not won any kind of an award since they started bowling in 2006.

As a sub teacher and a coach, I had to do what needed to be done to help these kids and until i got my own equipment they didn't really listen to me very much. Being a teacher and coach is all about trying to educate. If they're not willing to learn, then there's nothing you can do.

Once I got my own equipment I was able to bowl with them and show them what I was explaining, and it paid off. They really started to pay attention and it was great to see. Heck, they even called me during their Christmas break to join them at the bowling alley. That was an honor I won't forget.

They went from dead last to finishing 3rd in the league, and ended up second overall in the County Championships, I had 1 kid who was First Team all County and state, and I had a kid on Second Team All County. These kids also ended up being 4th in the State Championships.

My kid who made First Team lost the Championship by 2 pins. It was heartbreaking for us, but he gave it all he could. He just ran out of gas.

For them to aquire this hardware for the first time in 8 years was a true testament to those kids.

All I could do was show them how to to do it. They were the ones who had to execute it and they did. They deserve all of the credit in the world for how they came back and got so good.

It was this group of kids that inspired me to return to bowling after 25 years.

[fokai73]

I keep two layouts on all of my symmetrical core balls. Depending what I want to achieve in the front, middle, and end of the pattern, I use other adjustments... I don't concern myself with layouts. it's over rated some times.

[RobLV1]

I have no idea if Vegas bowler is speed or rev dominant but I will somewhat disagree with you on the drilling thing. For a bowler who is balanced speed and rev wise it may be hard to put a drilling on a ball that completely won't perform. For bowlers who are speed or rev dominate though it is relatively easy to produce a ball that won't perform adequately by drilling. I could probably double thumb the least aggressive ball on the market and it would still roll out on me before hitting the pins with my lower speed it's just way to early for me. My wife who tends to be more speed dominate isn't going to perform well with a drilling that promotes length even on a pretty aggressive ball. on a lot of patterns it will just never get into a roll for her.

Add in the fact that many bowlers tend to have a preferred sweet spot area they are most comfortable bowling in the correct drilling can allow that bowler to play that area of the lane or play it longer than they could with a different drilling. Cover stock, surface and core are always going to be the biggest factors in where and how a ball rolls best but the correct drilling for your stats and where you tend to play the lanes can make a ball that is a marginal fit work and a good fit work longer. Does that mean I can go drill a Grudge or some super early ball no but it can make some balls a little more useful for me. I've learned enough to buy balls that fit my game but for average joe bowler who buys a ball because it looked good when Tommy Jones threw it or they like that color or that one smells nice it's an important tool.

There is only one reason to buy a bowling ball and try to make it either more or less aggressive by using a particular layout, and that it not understanding anything about modern cores. The only thing that a different layout does is to change the core numbers from the undrilled ball. If you buy the right ball to begin with and use a layout that has proven to work for you, then there is no reason to try and reinvent your layout on every ball you have drilled.

[Amyers]

There is only one reason to buy a bowling ball and try to make it either more or less aggressive by using a particular layout, and that it not understanding anything about modern cores. The only thing that a different layout does is to change the core numbers from the undrilled ball. If you buy the right ball to begin with and use a layout that has proven to work for you, then there is no reason to try and reinvent your layout on every ball you have drilled.

I've seen some of your conversations on this at Bowling Chat and I'm not going to try and change your mind here about it but I will make a couple of points and move on.

1. Each core is different and your changing the dynamics of the core however you choose to drill the ball is still a changed dynamic.

2. I'm not saying to try and make balls that go long start early or to drill the guts out of a aggressive ball to try and make it weak but I will see where the hole is in my bag and pick a ball and a layout the enhances the reaction I'm looking for.

If I had ten balls I wouldn't have ten layouts but I also will not assume that the same layout on every ball is the best choice either. To do so is similar to only buying high rg balls or only buying balls with high differentials. Why not use all of the tools at your disposal to get the reaction I want. To me it's about the same as saying I really want a pearl Storm Lock and waiting 6 months for it to come out instead of buying the lock and polishing it (yes I realize there may be some small difference). Use the tools at your disposal to get what you need how you need it.

[RobLV1]

I've seen some of your conversations on this at Bowling Chat and I'm not going to try and change your mind here about it but I will make a couple of points and move on.

1. Each core is different and your changing the dynamics of the core however you choose to drill the ball is still a changed dynamic.

2. I'm not saying to try and make balls that go long start early or to drill the guts out of a aggressive ball to try and make it weak but I will see where the hole is in my bag and pick a ball and a layout the enhances the reaction I'm looking for.

If I had ten balls I wouldn't have ten layouts but I also will not assume that the same layout on every ball is the best choice either. To do so is similar to only buying high rg balls or only buying balls with high differentials. Why not use all of the tools at your disposal to get the reaction I want. To me it's about the same as saying I really want a pearl Storm Lock and waiting 6 months for it to come out instead of buying the lock and polishing it (yes I realize there may be some small difference). Use the tools at your disposal to get what you need how you need it.

The nice thing about internet chat sites is that the moderators, by definition, get the last word by locking the chain. The nice thing about being a bowling writer is that we are read by a much larger audience. All I'm trying to do is to make a very complex subject (modern bowling balls) as simple as possible by eliminating as many variables as possible to give every bowler maximum control over his/her arsenal. See my last word in my next BTM article, "Making the Case for Limited Layouts."

[Amyers]

The nice thing about internet chat sites is that the moderators, by definition, get the last word by locking the chain. The nice thing about being a bowling writer is that we are read by a much larger audience. All I'm trying to do is to make a very complex subject (modern bowling balls) as simple as possible by eliminating as many variables as possible to give every bowler maximum control over his/her arsenal. See my last word in my next BTM article, "Making the Case for Limited Layouts."

That's true about the moderators and every forum has their own thought processes. I don't think we disagree much especially for newer bowlers. Part of my thoughts on this depends on how much of a quality PSO you have. If you have a really good PSO who truly understands your game and how to layout a bowling ball you can do more than if you've got the guy who drills balls out of his garage because he happens to own a drill press. I also think a lot of this is determined at what level you are competing at. I think you can divide it down to three groups really.

Group 1- Casual league bowlers who buy 1 to 2 balls a year or every other year mainly throw in one house. For this bowler yeah you can put the same layout on everything. My biggest problem with that mindset for this group is they are the ones most likely to pick the wrong ball for them. I do believe that a good PSO can at least shave the edges off the square peg you picked for the round whole with a layout. Many bowlers buy what they seen on TV or like the color smell of even against the best advice of the PSO believe me I see it happen all the time.

Group 2- Serious league bowlers who buy 2-4 balls a year and bowl in multiple houses. This bowler may need a couple of layouts probably has 3-6 balls he uses on a regular basis. Has at least some understanding of how balls work. Does he need a different layout on every ball? No but if I drilled up a ball with an early rolling layout and liked it but I want something that I can play deeper with I'm not going to put that same early rolling layout on it either.

Group 3- Serious tournament and sport shot bowlers buys multiple balls per year. This is the bowlers who drill up balls to bowl on specific shots and probably buys as many as 5-10 balls per year. These bowlers have the best understanding of their ball motion and actual tune their game to the pattern. I know a few of these guys and I'm not in that club but they believe they can give themselves an advantage this way.

As usual your point of view depends on the audience that you are trying to reach and which group you fall into. Myself I feel like I'm group 2. Of the 4 balls I'm currently using the most 2 have a symmetrical length layout, 1 has a low flare layout and 1 is a asymmetrical layout that I bought before I even had a basic understanding of layouts and I'm not sure what is on it. As a group 2 bowler I'm going to buy balls it's to much fun to try new things out not too. In my opinion it's one of the great things about modern bowling is that you can actual purchase equipment that changes your game (it can be a curse too).

If I could only afford to buy 1 ball a year and it had to be good then I would feel differently about it but luckily if I don't like something I can afford to trash it and I kind of feel if I don't experiment some with the layouts some I might be missing out on something. I really didn't care for the low flare layout and I really have been wanting to try something with a motion hole layout as I haven't tried it and it sounds like it would fit my game.

[1VegasBowler]

That's true about the moderators and every forum has their own thought processes. I don't think we disagree much especially for newer bowlers. Part of my thoughts on this depends on how much of a quality PSO you have. If you have a really good PSO who truly understands your game and how to layout a bowling ball you can do more than if you've got the guy who drills balls out of his garage because he happens to own a drill press. I also think a lot of this is determined at what level you are competing at. I think you can divide it down to three groups really.

Group 1- Casual league bowlers who buy 1 to 2 balls a year or every other year mainly throw in one house. For this bowler yeah you can put the same layout on everything. My biggest problem with that mindset for this group is they are the ones most likely to pick the wrong ball for them. I do believe that a good PSO can at least shave the edges off the square peg you picked for the round whole with a layout. Many bowlers buy what they seen on TV or like the color smell of even against the best advice of the PSO believe me I see it happen all the time.

Group 2- Serious league bowlers who buy 2-4 balls a year and bowl in multiple houses. This bowler may need a couple of layouts probably has 3-6 balls he uses on a regular basis. Has at least some understanding of how balls work. Does he need a different layout on every ball? No but if I drilled up a ball with an early rolling layout and liked it but I want something that I can play deeper with I'm not going to put that same early rolling layout on it either.

Group 3- Serious tournament and sport shot bowlers buys multiple balls per year. This is the bowlers who drill up balls to bowl on specific shots and probably buys as many as 5-10 balls per year. These bowlers have the best understanding of their ball motion and actual tune their game to the pattern. I know a few of these guys and I'm not in that club but they believe they can give themselves an advantage this way.

As usual your point of view depends on the audience that you are trying to reach and which group you fall into. Myself I feel like I'm group 2. Of the 4 balls I'm currently using the most 2 have a symmetrical length layout, 1 has a low flare layout and 1 is a asymmetrical layout that I bought before I even had a basic understanding of layouts and I'm not sure what is on it. As a group 2 bowler I'm going to buy balls it's to much fun to try new things out not too. In my opinion it's one of the great things about modern bowling is that you can actual purchase equipment that changes your game (it can be a curse too).

If I could only afford to buy 1 ball a year and it had to be good then I would feel differently about it but luckily if I don't like something I can afford to trash it and I kind of feel if I don't experiment some with the layouts some I might be missing out on something. I really didn't care for the low flare layout and I really have been wanting to try something with a motion hole layout as I haven't tried it and it sounds like it would fit my game.

The only thing I would add to this is 1 more category of bowler. The Social Bowler.

This is the type of person who really doesn't care. They are more of a social butterfly who's only real purpose is to show up, grab a ball (their own or a house ball) and toss it for 3 games and socialize with everybody there with no cares about their average.

I know these bowlers too well because I had 3 of them for teammates this past season. The best average for those 3 was 134, while mine stayed around 180.

One in particular wanted a high five after each time she was done with a frame. Whether it was 3 pins or a X for the frame, she had to have some skin.

I've been competitive all of my life and I make no apologies for that. It's just the way I'm wired. When I don't do well, I blame nobody except for myself. I also don't like high fives for every strike or spare, and I certainly am not a fan of rooting for my opponents.

However, I certainly will acknowledge somebody who makes a very difficult spare or who gets on a run of multiple strikes, and bowling a great game overall. And while I like being sociable, there is a time and place for it.

Then again, maybe I'm too old school.

[Amyers]

The only thing I would add to this is 1 more category of bowler. The Social Bowler.

This is the type of person who really doesn't care. They are more of a social butterfly who's only real purpose is to show up, grab a ball (their own or a house ball) and toss it for 3 games and socialize with everybody there with no cares about their average.

I know these bowlers too well because I had 3 of them for teammates this past season. The best average for those 3 was 134, while mine stayed around 180.

One in particular wanted a high five after each time she was done with a frame. Whether it was 3 pins or a X for the frame, she had to have some skin.

I've been competitive all of my life and I make no apologies for that. It's just the way I'm wired. When I don't do well, I blame nobody except for myself. I also don't like high fives for every strike or spare, and I certainly am not a fan of rooting for my opponents.

However, I certainly will acknowledge somebody who makes a very difficult spare or who gets on a run of multiple strikes, and bowling a great game overall. And while I like being sociable, there is a time and place for it.

Then again, maybe I'm too old school.

We think similarly Vegas. I thought of including this group myself but since they really don't care about the ball or the drilling I didn't bother lol.:rolleyes:

[1VegasBowler]

We think similarly Vegas. I thought of including this group myself but since they really don't care about the ball or the drilling I didn't bother lol.:rolleyes:

LOL

I had to include them because of what I just went through for the past 35 weeks! lol Finishing last overall is not a good feeling by any means, but I had no choice in teammates.

The only redeeming quality about them is all 3 of them threw the ball down the middle and didn't tear up my lines! lol

[JasonNJ]

LOL

I had to include them because of what I just went through for the past 35 weeks! lol Finishing last overall is not a good feeling by any means, but I had no choice in teammates.

The only redeeming quality about them is all 3 of them threw the ball down the middle and didn't tear up my lines! lol

I know you pain Vegas. This past season, I had one woman who finished with a 111 average and didn't really care if we won or lost. She would say at least I made my average so I did my job. Was a struggle for me all season to not say "a blind monkey could probably bowl your average".

[1VegasBowler]

I know you pain Vegas. This past season, I had one woman who finished with a 111 average and didn't really care if we won or lost. She would say at least I made my average so I did my job. Was a struggle for me all season to not say "a blind monkey could probably bowl your average".

I could swear we had the same person on our teams! lol

[1VegasBowler]

And here's an even sadder part of this. When 2 of your 3 teammates have to combine their series just to be just barely ahead of what your series was, would be embarrassing to me.

Hopefully, in time I will be in a better position to pick and choose who I wish to bowl with. But for now, I have to settle with whomever.

[JasonNJ]

And here's an even sadder part of this. When 2 of your 3 teammates have to combine their series just to be just barely ahead of what your series was, would be embarrassing to me.

Hopefully, in time I will be in a better position to pick and choose who I wish to bowl with. But for now, I have to settle with whomever.\

Yeah this was my first league ever and they assigned me to this team. I already told them next season I'm making my own team.

[1VegasBowler]

\

Yeah this was my first league ever and they assigned me to this team. I already told them next season I'm making my own team.

Obviously, they are one of the reasons I won't return next season.

The other reason is the house has numerous problems with their equipment and have their priorities all wrong when it comes what they are going to fix and upgrade.

Far too many bowling centers in this town to choose from.

[Tampabaybob]

So in my ever evolving game I've taken a huge step back in terms of score but a huge improvement in terms of carry and strike percentage on pocket hits. For those connecting the dots... yes.. I'm having issues hitting the pocket consistently and when I do (and don't strike) its almost always a 4 pin. Longer sport patterns I don't have as much problem and have been scoring better on Paris than my center's house shot. They recently changed to Kegel Fire for lane conditioner which have made things worse, but I've struggled for months.

As for my evolving game, I've started getting more revolutions and my Track is very high. My speed is slower and I'm, at this point, Rev Dominant. I've benched all of my low RG stuff and my current arsenal consists of a Hy-Road Pearl with an extremely large Pin to Pap... A pin Down Hy-Road... (about 4 inch pin to pap) and a Pin up Ride... (about 4 inch pin to pap).

So here is the ongoing problem.. I get so much midlane reaction that I often end up playing standing about 30 to 35 and targeting 15 to 20 at the arrows with the Storm Ride just to get the ball to the right of the head pin.. and sometimes that is even too much ball. I find myself playing, what I feel are, extremely sharp angles through the front... like 30 to 15 and sometimes even 34 to 15 or 16. (my offset is about 7 boards and my drift tends to be left and 2 boards or less) If I can get the ball right, it breaks so hard at the end of the pattern that it is hitting high in the pocket or going brooklyn on the house shot. With the House shot "funnel" it seems like its funneling me High or brooklyn.. not to the 1-3 pocket.

So are these angles really not that extreme and I'm just trying to get used to having a better rev rate than before? Or should I really focus more on getting my speed higher because my Rev Dominance is why the "funnel" of the THS seems to be sending me High all the time?... Should I really just get better at playing what I feel are extreme angles... or should I focus on getting more speed to better balance my Rev Rate/Track with my speed?

I'm not exactly sure what everything is but I'd say I'm about 300 RPM's.. very high track with almost 0 tilt.. and probably about 14 to 15 MPH.


Bobforsaken...I'm going to agree with Rob on his points about layouts. I have found what works for me in layouts and what hasn't has been an expensive learning experience. But just for a moment lets focus on what problems you're having. When bowling ball manufacturers produce new balls, they put a surface on them that they "assume" most bowlers will like the reaction. That said, no two bowlers are alike, and we have at our disposal the ability to change the surface of the ball and actually change the reaction just a little. As Rob noted, you are having midland problems because you may be throwing balls with too much surface for your speed, rotation, and axis tilt. So how about taking one of those early rolling balls and put a nice coat of ball polish on it ( I'd go with Brunswicks Royal Shine which will give you an equivalent of a 5000 outer surface). Then take the ball out and see how much of a difference it'll make. It sure slide easier through the mid lane and come back harder on the back end. You can also try their compound polish which is equal to 2500 grit.

Your next problem...leaving a lot of 4 pins. 99% of the time if you're hitting fairly high OR brooklyn, the first thing to check is your accuracy. I can tell you without a doubt that you're probably lifting your eyes off of your target a "SLPIT SECOND" before the ball leaves you hand. When that happens, your eyes will ALWAYS follow your hand and you'll pull the ball. If you positively know you are hitting your target, then you're waiting too long to move your feet/target or both. Check those out, and next time you bowl get another pair of eyes behind you to spot you. You might just be surprised.

[JaxBowlingGuy]

Once I found a layout that worked well for me, i stuck with the layout. I have one layout for asymmetrical ball and one layout for symmetrical. Both are on the stronger side. But I also have a few "purpose drilled" balls that don't use my usual layouts. These are almost exclusively used when I go to the tournaments that use sport patterns. Actually just drilled an Alpha Crux and Fight this past weekend for a tournament this coming weekend

[billf]

My layouts would drive Rob nuts! Not only do I have a multitude of layouts I even have layouts based off two diffrent PAPs

PAP= 4 1/4"> 1/4"^
Warrior Elite 70° X 3 1/2 X 30°
Cobra 60° X 3 1/2" X 40°
Scandal 60° X 3 1/2 X 40°
Cyclone RICO (thank you Ric Hamelin)
Revolt Havoc 45° X 4" X 40°

PAP 5 1/2"> 1/2"^
'Nsane Antics 70° X 4" X 70°
Crazy Antics 60° X 4" X 40°
Revolt 65° X 3 3/8 X 35° (Bob Kelly drilled specifically for state tournament 2015. I was 42 pins a game over average.)
Panic 60° X 4" X 45°

I also have two shocks drilled 55° X 3 3/4" X 50° one for each PAP