Improving on my 20 year comback

[LOUVIT]

So I came back after 20 or 25 years about 4 months ago. now I am using the outdated Ebonite NVS which will roll but not hook or carry. The first 2 months I was shooting from 100 to 160. This week I shot 186, 154, and a 190. I am starting to string some strikes. What I need to know is at a ball speed of about 13mph with a #16 ball should I buy a hammer 15# scandel, from what I hear this is a big hooking ball. I averaged 190 25 years ago but we all know this game has changed . I'm afraid it may hook too much. I have other posts here but I decided to start my own thread for advise.

thanks, Lou
oakfield lanes Brandon Fl.

[1VegasBowler]

I had a 25 year hiatus until the end of 2014, and I use the DV8/Brunswick line.

My Ruckus Schizo, Thug Unruly and Vandal have some sweet hook to them.

Check out Lane Side Reviews on youtube.com to see what ball(s) you might be interested in. They are my "go to" when I look at a new ball. And if I have a dead tie for what I want, I go to my PSO Johnny Petraglia, Jr. to break that tie. lol

[Amyers]

It's hard to say if your wanting to switch weights and working on your game I always suggest starting from the middle and not the top. Honestly if you need a scandal to hook the ball on a THS pattern you need to work on your game not buy the ball in my opinion. We all see people throwing balls like this on league but in my opinion I see it do more bowlers harm than good. The Scandal is one of the most aggressive heavy oil balls on the market it wasn't really designed for use on THS. I see more of these type of balls burning up and hitting poorly for bowlers because they aren't using them on the condition they were designed for.

Lower ball speed and super aggressive balls tend to = train wreck. This comes from a guy who hit's 13 on a good day and average much closer to 12-12.5. I would suggest looking for something more in the medium category preferably with a middle amount of surface 3k to 4k is optimum for lower speed bowlers bench mark ball. The Hammer Arson High Flare solid, Brunswick Melee Hook or Mastermind Einstein, or Storm Rocketship would all be choices that will most likely be more useful for you than the Scandal.

It's a lot easier and more useful to start in the middle and move up and down than it is to find what you are looking for if you start at the top or the bottom and try to find the middle. If you buy a Scandal and it's way to strong then where is the ball that you need on the scale is it a dark legend or do you need to go down to a arson or viral to get something that's controllable for you if you need to go to the arson for it to be useful your not going to get much use out of the Scandal. You start with the Arson and need more then it's for sure Dark Legend or Scandal need less it's Viral or Nail and either way the Arson is still useable as a move up or a move down in aggressiveness. At 13 mph your much more likely to be on the less aggressive end of the scale than you are on the more end. Also don't over estimate the ball speed your going to get by moving down in weight I've seen bowlers who going down a pount gamve them .75-1 mph for me I tried moving to 14 lbs. and got .25 mph :(. Hope this helps.

[LOUVIT]

I am still hoping it's the ball I'm using now that is the reason for the no hook situation. i am still trying to learn all these new ball specs. What is the opinion of the outdated Ebinote NVS? Should it be working on league oil conditions. I feel I'm throwing the ball right but it don't move more than a few boards on the late backend. Also the ball is drilled with the pin way right of the finger holes. What does hat cause the ball to do, all other balls I see the pin is close to the finger holes. ( I bought it maybe 10 years ago used and started to bowl and then had no time anymore).

[Amyers]

I am still hoping it's the ball I'm using now that is the reason for the no hook situation. i am still trying to learn all these new ball specs. What is the opinion of the outdated Ebinote NVS? Should it be working on league oil conditions. I feel I'm throwing the ball right but it don't move more than a few boards on the late backend. Also the ball is drilled with the pin way right of the finger holes. What does hat cause the ball to do, all other balls I see the pin is close to the finger holes. ( I bought it maybe 10 years ago used and started to bowl and then had no time anymore).

The Ebonite NVS was before my time but I looked it up on Ebonite's website it's was a mid rg higher differential core and since it was in their value line I would figure it's a weaker cover even by 2007 standards. My guess would be it's probably less than most of the balls on the market today. From what I seen of the older reviews people were not fans of the entire NV series of balls.

The placement of the pin doesn't really tell you much. The reaction really has more to do with the pin to your pap than where it is located in relationship to your fingers. Was the ball redrilled or drilled since you've came back to bowling? If not it's possible your pap has changed and that could be a small part of the issue.

Either way I would suggest starting with something new in the medium category. If nothing else it'll let you know for sure if it's a ball issue or a you issue.

[1VegasBowler]

It's hard to say if your wanting to switch weights and working on your game I always suggest starting from the middle and not the top. Honestly if you need a scandal to hook the ball on a THS pattern you need to work on your game not buy the ball in my opinion. We all see people throwing balls like this on league but in my opinion I see it do more bowlers harm than good. The Scandal is one of the most aggressive heavy oil balls on the market it wasn't really designed for use on THS. I see more of these type of balls burning up and hitting poorly for bowlers because they aren't using them on the condition they were designed for.

Lower ball speed and super aggressive balls tend to = train wreck. This comes from a guy who hit's 13 on a good day and average much closer to 12-12.5. I would suggest looking for something more in the medium category preferably with a middle amount of surface 3k to 4k is optimum for lower speed bowlers bench mark ball. The Hammer Arson High Flare solid, Brunswick Melee Hook or Mastermind Einstein, or Storm Rocketship would all be choices that will most likely be more useful for you than the Scandal.

It's a lot easier and more useful to start in the middle and move up and down than it is to find what you are looking for if you start at the top or the bottom and try to find the middle. If you buy a Scandal and it's way to strong then where is the ball that you need on the scale is it a dark legend or do you need to go down to a arson or viral to get something that's controllable for you if you need to go to the arson for it to be useful your not going to get much use out of the Scandal. You start with the Arson and need more then it's for sure Dark Legend or Scandal need less it's Viral or Nail and either way the Arson is still useable as a move up or a move down in aggressiveness. At 13 mph your much more likely to be on the less aggressive end of the scale than you are on the more end. Also don't over estimate the ball speed your going to get by moving down in weight I've seen bowlers who going down a pount gamve them .75-1 mph for me I tried moving to 14 lbs. and got .25 mph :(. Hope this helps.

I certainly agree here. Whether it's the Scandal or the Grudge, balls like this are far too much for a THS. When it breaks down they get even worse yet to control.

Start in the middle of the road and work your way up, along with working on all of the other aspects of your game. It will make your game better in the long run and boost your confidence. Starting too strong will make you wonder why you came back! lol

[1VegasBowler]

I am still hoping it's the ball I'm using now that is the reason for the no hook situation. i am still trying to learn all these new ball specs. What is the opinion of the outdated Ebinote NVS? Should it be working on league oil conditions. I feel I'm throwing the ball right but it don't move more than a few boards on the late backend. Also the ball is drilled with the pin way right of the finger holes. What does hat cause the ball to do, all other balls I see the pin is close to the finger holes. ( I bought it maybe 10 years ago used and started to bowl and then had no time anymore).

I would start with something like the new Vintage Danger Zone or something that is equivalent. It's above starter level and if drilled properly it can be a ball you can use for a long time. I use my VDZ for Sport shots only because it's my first time doing Sport, and my PSO drilled it for such.

While my other balls could be good for Sport later on, starting smaller than my Vandal and Thug Unruly is the better bet until I get better at the Sport patterns.

Same thing applied to the THS.

[JasonNJ]

One other thing, where did you get the Ebonite NVS? Maybe it just need a de-oiling and a resurfacing. I started bowling 2 years ago and I bought a Ebonite Pursuit-S on clearance and it was a pretty high end ball but after about 90 games, it just stopped hooking. At first I thought it was me but it was the ball full of oil. I baked it and get about 2 teaspoons of oil out and the ball reaction came back to life.

[LOUVIT]

The Ebonite NVS was before my time but I looked it up on Ebonite's website it's was a mid rg higher differential core and since it was in their value line I would figure it's a weaker cover even by 2007 standards. My guess would be it's probably less than most of the balls on the market today. From what I seen of the older reviews people were not fans of the entire NV series of balls.

The placement of the pin doesn't really tell you much. The reaction really has more to do with the pin to your pap than where it is located in relationship to your fingers. Was the ball redrilled or drilled since you've came back to bowling? If not it's possible your pap has changed and that could be a small part of the issue.

Either way I would suggest starting with something new in the medium category. If nothing else it'll let you know for sure if it's a ball issue or a you issue.

thanks that's the info I was looking for,Makes me feel a bit better about the way I'm throwing it. It seems the ball may be more of a problem than me. i will be buying a new ball in 2 weeks and have that long to secide which one to go with. I also notice most people (at least in my age bracket, I'm 61) are throwing the outside line. I am still an inside shooter and looking for the bend not the stright and in shot from the gutter I stand on the left side and throw it out and wait for it to hook back which the NVS doesn't,,lol. I did the soapy hot water wash and a few other things and no change.

[LOUVIT]

I'll probably be buying the new ball in a week and a half. I'd appreciate if you guy's could come up with a ball that will hook but not destroy me at 12 or so MPH. I do notice that my release vary's but I know when I'm coming off the side like my thumb at 9 o'clock because my thumb sticks, so I do correct it. I was all set on the hammer scandel until I was told it may be too much for me.I've had advise to "start with" a certian ball. Hate to say but in my position I can't be spending 200.00 at a time until I find one that works. I think my NVS will be my spare ball if I think I need one. I never used a strike and different ball.

Here's my original thread back in March just for FYI. I now have a better approach and timing, at least I do not feel like I'm going to fall on my face like I did a few times back them=n...lol

http://www.bowlingboards.com/threads/19389-hello-old-guy-trying-to-learn-the-new-stuff

[Huber]

I recently came back after about 5 years. One thing I can tell you is a newer performance ball makes some difference. I have been working on my game a lot and I recently got the DV8 Ruckus Schizo. I love this ball! Myself, my dad and uncle all got the same ball.

For me this is my benchmark ball and does a fantastic job around here.

For me improving is always the first thing but I think it gets frustrating when you have balls that don't perform also

[LOUVIT]

Here's how my NVS is drilled now, the position of the pin bothers me, all other balls I see the pin in centered. I bought the NVS used from a guy in one of my car clubs probably 7-8 years ago. I've had it all this time but just started getting serious now. won't let me post pic now I'll add it

[1VegasBowler]

I'll probably be buying the new ball in a week and a half. I'd appreciate if you guy's could come up with a ball that will hook but not destroy me at 12 or so MPH. I do notice that my release vary's but I know when I'm coming off the side like my thumb at 9 o'clock because my thumb sticks, so I do correct it. I was all set on the hammer scandel until I was told it may be too much for me.I've had advise to "start with" a certian ball. Hate to say but in my position I can't be spending 200.00 at a time until I find one that works. I think my NVS will be my spare ball if I think I need one. I never used a strike and different ball.

Here's my original thread back in March just for FYI. I now have a better approach and timing, at least I do not feel like I'm going to fall on my face like I did a few times back them=n...lol

http://www.bowlingboards.com/threads/19389-hello-old-guy-trying-to-learn-the-new-stuff

As you can see from my arsenal (below), all of mine are 12 pounders, and I have to keep my speed at around 13mph or I'm SOL.

The VDZ goes for $120 through BowlersMart.com, and it has given me darn good hits and lots of carry every time.

[LOUVIT]

Sorry it wont allow me to quote, vegas you actually carry 5 pins etc throwing 12# and 13mph? What are you doing to make that happen...lol. going back to my post #12 I can't post the picture of my pin placement so go here

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v488/louvit/NVS%20pin_zpsf6l5gbgc.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v488/louvit/NVS%20pin_zpsf6l5gbgc.jpg

[1VegasBowler]

Sorry it wont allow me to quote, vegas you actually carry 5 pins etc throwing 12# and 13mph? What are you doing to make that happen...lol. going back to my post #12 I can't post the picture of my pin placement so go here

I have a high rev rate that gives me a ton of pin action, and considering I have a 180 average on the Viper oil pattern right now, that isn't too bad (adjusted to 207).

[LOUVIT]

ok back to my picture of the drilling of my NVS post #14 why is the pin so off centered and does this affect hooking?

[1VegasBowler]

ok back to my picture of the drilling of my NVS post #14 why is the pin so off centered and does this affect hooking?

Yes. Since it's more like pin down, it's going to start hooking a little bit sooner.

[LOUVIT]

Vegas, so pin down it should hook more and it doesn't hook an inch...lol. getting a new ball on tuesday, still up in the air on which one though,
so I high rev rate is done by really getting under the ball I guess, that's something I can't do. When I get the new one I'm going to have the shop clean and surface the NVS if it doesn't cost too much, if feels oil soaked

system will not let me reply with quote sometimes

[1VegasBowler]

Pin Down will make it start hooking sooner, not so much as "more" either.

Pin Up will go a little longer before hooking.

Most of your hook is going to happen on the back ends where there's friction. The more friction, the more hook you yet.

[chrono00]

Vegas, so pin down it should hook more and it doesn't hook an inch...lol. getting a new ball on tuesday, still up in the air on which one though,
so I high rev rate is done by really getting under the ball I guess, that's something I can't do. When I get the new one I'm going to have the shop clean and surface the NVS if it doesn't cost too much, if feels oil soaked

system will not let me reply with quote sometimes

If its oil soaked just leave it in the car on a hot day, that'll sweat it all out.

My old stand by the virtual energy stayed in the car over one of our first hotter weeks around here....I nearly dropped it pulling it out of the back it was so slick.

[1VegasBowler]

If its oil soaked just leave it in the car on a hot day, that'll sweat it all out.

My old stand by the virtual energy stayed in the car over one of our first hotter weeks around here....I nearly dropped it pulling it out of the back it was so slick.

All I need is one day here in Vegas! With the temps between 106-109 it won't take long! lol

[Huber]

If its oil soaked just leave it in the car on a hot day, that'll sweat it all out.

My old stand by the virtual energy stayed in the car over one of our first hotter weeks around here....I nearly dropped it pulling it out of the back it was so slick.

My dad has a mini pro shop set up in his garage and we use a dehumidifier (like you would for jerky 😂) puts it at 100 and works like a charm

[chrono00]

My dad has a mini pro shop set up in his garage and we use a dehumidifier (like you would for jerky 😂) puts it at 100 and works like a charm

Sounds good yea.

I work in restaurants. A few years back the one u worked at, at the time I would bring my ball to work every few weeks and run it through the dishwasher. 60 seconds or so going through soapy water at 160-180 degrees, let it air dry, wipe off and send it through a second time. Worked out great

[LOUVIT]

My ball is always in my trunk and I live in Florida. Dishwasher sounds like a good idea.

[Amyers]

My ball is always in my trunk and I live in Florida. Dishwasher sounds like a good idea.

Be careful with the dishwasher. Do not use heated drying or sanitize cycles as the heat can be too much. I also do not suggest using a ball that has been de-oiled without resurfacing the ball first

[1VegasBowler]

Be careful with the dishwasher. Do not use heated drying or sanitize cycles as the heat can be too much. I also do not suggest using a ball that has been de-oiled without resurfacing the ball first

Great point.

There are a couple of PSO's here in Vegas who like using the water method for de-oiling, and one of the things they suggest is to let it sit under running hot tap water for 2 big reasons. 1) Tap water shouldn't be exceeding 125 degrees. 2) Running water maintains its temperature better than just soaking it, unless you have an extractor that can maintain the 125.

However, make sure you're not doing it with a ball that is over soaked with oil because it will take forever. In that case, spend the few dollars it takes to take it to your PSO so they can do it (unless you have your own).

Once it has been de-oiled by your PSO, you can do it yourself every couple of weeks to help maintain it. I do my big 3 every 2-3 weeks and it has worked out very well. But with the HOT weather now upon us here in Vegas, I can keep mine outside for a few hours during the day and get the same results..lol

It's one of the nice advantages of living in the desert! lol

[Jessiewoodard57]

I live in Florida also and would not dare leave my balls in the car . I have a friend who cracked a ball that way.

[1VegasBowler]

I live in Florida also and would not dare leave my balls in the car . I have a friend who cracked a ball that way.

I wouldn't leave mine in a car either because there is no air circulation, and it can get so much hotter than 125.

[1VegasBowler]

Great point.

There are a couple of PSO's here in Vegas who like using the water method for de-oiling, and one of the things they suggest is to let it sit under running hot tap water for 2 big reasons. 1) Tap water shouldn't be exceeding 125 degrees. 2) Running water maintains its temperature better than just soaking it, unless you have an extractor that can maintain the 125.

However, make sure you're not doing it with a ball that is over soaked with oil because it will take forever. In that case, spend the few dollars it takes to take it to your PSO so they can do it (unless you have your own).

Once it has been de-oiled by your PSO, you can do it yourself every couple of weeks to help maintain it. I do my big 3 every 2-3 weeks and it has worked out very well. But with the HOT weather now upon us here in Vegas, I can keep mine outside for a few hours during the day and get the same results..lol

It's one of the nice advantages of living in the desert! lol

I'm going to make a slight addendum to this.

Just for the heck of it, I put my big 3 out in the sun for 30 minutes today, and all I can say is, WOW. (OMFG would work too! lol)

The Vandal and Thug Unruly had enough oil come from them in that 30 minutes where I could probably have oiled an entire lane, and then I cleaned them both off with That Purple Stuff. (The VDZ is too new and not much oil from it)

I'm going to leave them outside out of the sun for about 30 more minutes to see how effective that will be. Currently it's only 97 out there.

While I thought the hot water method wasn't bad, having them is the sun for that short period of time showed me another side of extraction! lol

[LOUVIT]

I'm going to make a slight addendum to this.

Just for the heck of it, I put my big 3 out in the sun for 30 minutes today, and all I can say is, WOW. (OMFG would work too! lol)

The Vandal and Thug Unruly had enough oil come from them in that 30 minutes where I could probably have oiled an entire lane, and then I cleaned them both off with That Purple Stuff. (The VDZ is too new and not much oil from it)

I'm going to leave them outside out of the sun for about 30 more minutes to see how effective that will be. Currently it's only 97 out there.

While I thought the hot water method wasn't bad, having them is the sun for that short period of time showed me another side of extraction! lol


lol Florida is more humid, don't know if that's bad. I will try this tomorrow i tried every release known to man today and slowed even to 11 mph and the ball still wouldn't come back....lol.. since I am getting a new one next week I'm not too concerned. I do want to clean the NVS for a possible spare ball. What does a pro shop charge to clean and surface a ball?

[1VegasBowler]

lol Florida is more humid, don't know if that's bad. I will try this tomorrow i tried every release known to man today and slowed even to 11 mph and the ball still wouldn't come back....lol.. since I am getting a new one next week I'm not too concerned. I do want to clean the NVS for a possible spare ball. What does a pro shop charge to clean and surface a ball?

I know about the Florida humidity. I lived in Naples for 2 years and it was still better than being in NY & NC! lol But I never bowled while in Florida, but I know the outside temp there doesn't come close to the heat of the desert.

They'll probably charge somewhere around $50 to do it, but try it in the sun like I did today.

After the first hour, I put it in the shade to cool off for another hour. Then I went 30 in then 30 out for about 2 more hours and used my cleaner to wipe it down every 10 minutes.

My Vandal & VDZ had no oil after the final 15 minutes in the sun. The Thug Unruly still had oil coming out of it, but far less than before, but I kind of figured it would since it has the reactive resin cover stock.

Can't wait to hit the lanes on the Viper pattern tonight with clean equipment! lol

[Jessiewoodard57]

lol Florida is more humid, don't know if that's bad. I will try this tomorrow i tried every release known to man today and slowed even to 11 mph and the ball still wouldn't come back....lol.. since I am getting a new one next week I'm not too concerned. I do want to clean the NVS for a possible spare ball. What does a pro shop charge to clean and surface a ball?

after removing the oil I too would resurface it. I don't have a spinner but I use one of these http://bowlingsmarttools.com/index.html

I found mine on ebay at a good price

[Amyers]

lol Florida is more humid, don't know if that's bad. I will try this tomorrow i tried every release known to man today and slowed even to 11 mph and the ball still wouldn't come back....lol.. since I am getting a new one next week I'm not too concerned. I do want to clean the NVS for a possible spare ball. What does a pro shop charge to clean and surface a ball?

If your looking at oil removal it varies a lot I've heard of some places doing it and resurfacing for $25 locally the lowest I've seen is $35. here it depends on what you want done If your just wanting to resurface after you've extracted and you just want them to put it on the spinner to refresh the existing surface it's $10 if you want a total resurface or the ball needs polished it's $15. My shop lets me buy a pad from them $5 and I can use his spinner myself for no charge but I do a lot of business there.

[LOUVIT]

I have just learned that I am using a ball drilled for a lefty, The Bias mark is way left of the thumbhole so all my issues with that ball have changed....lol, I'll clean it myself and maybe it'll be a spare ball...