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Chamiso
06-20-2016, 08:39 PM
Hello,

I have been bowling for almost 3 years now after about a 22-23 year hiatus...haven't bowled since I was a kid really other than the occasional trip for open bowling. Figured after lurking here for awhile now I would go ahead and make an account and start contributing with what little knowledge I have. I currently only have one ball in my arsenal which is a Pyramid Path Rising 12 pounds. I had always used 10 pound balls before this one which I got in January and have been steadily improving from a 100 average to currently a 160. I am thinking about getting a new ball soon now that I am used to using a 12 pound ball now, looking at probably getting an Ebonite Warrior Supreme. I spend a lot of my free time watching videos and reading to help improve my skills and am fairly decent at adjusting my shots to a typical house shot and am getting consistent with my shots as well.

Well that ends my boring introduction :p look forward to talking you all and contributing what I can most likely to other new bowlers where I can.

Chamiso
06-20-2016, 08:47 PM
And of course I start out being a complete idiot on forums as usual ><. Could have sworn I had clicked the introductions sub-thread oh well.

JasonNJ
06-20-2016, 10:16 PM
And of course I start out being a complete idiot on forums as usual ><. Could have sworn I had clicked the introductions sub-thread oh well.


No worries. Welcome to the board.

LOUVIT
06-21-2016, 08:12 AM
Welcome, there are a few of us here who have returned after a 25 year layoff.

Amyers
06-21-2016, 09:11 AM
Welcome back to bowling and the site. I took about a 20 year break myself and returned about 2.5 years ago. I would maybe rethink the warrior for a bit. The warrior has an asymmetrical core which can be a little more temperamental and in a 12lbs weight you only get a generic core not the actual warrior core. Most asymmetrical balls below 14 lbs. have a generic core instead of the one actually pictured. You might want to pick something with just a little more aggressive cover or more surfaced instead of paying big money for a asymmetrical core that you won't get.

Tampabaybob
06-21-2016, 12:13 PM
Chamiso.... Welcome to the boards and feel free to jump into conversations or ask questions about your game. I'm in agreement with Amyers about getting a ball with a regular core as opposed to a generic core. One that you can look at is the new Roto Grip Hy-wire. In the 12 pounds ball it has the regular core, and is more aggressive than the one you currently have. I recommended this ball for one of my students and he loves the ball. It's a Hybrid Reactive and it's a symmetric ball, which will give more consistency. My advice is to check out the balls on Bowlingball.com. They're one of the best sites for comparison because they have a rating system called the perfect scale. The Pyramid is rated at 181 and the Rotogrip is at 196. So it is more aggressive but it won't over burden you by hooking too much.
Check 'em out. Good Luck and welcome aboard.

LOUVIT
06-21-2016, 02:20 PM
If I may ask a personal question....why a 12lb ball? (not a question that needs to be answered) Do you throw a hook or a stright ball. if you were able to go to 14lbs there may be more choices.I went from 16 to 15, I wanted to try 14 but was afraid of loosing pin carry since I do not have a high mph..12.5. I'm new to all this new equipment and may be wrong. Some one correct me if I am. I just bought a 15# Track Heat and I love it. I also just won a Storm phase from here and can't wait to get it.

Chamiso
06-21-2016, 03:01 PM
Welcome back to bowling and the site. I took about a 20 year break myself and returned about 2.5 years ago. I would maybe rethink the warrior for a bit. The warrior has an asymmetrical core which can be a little more temperamental and in a 12lbs weight you only get a generic core not the actual warrior core. Most asymmetrical balls below 14 lbs. have a generic core instead of the one actually pictured. You might want to pick something with just a little more aggressive cover or more surfaced instead of paying big money for a asymmetrical core that you won't get.

Hmm was not aware that they would make that a generic core based off the weight I had noticed at bowlingball.com that for some balls they will list generic core at the lower weights for balls but didn't see that for all of them the new warrior included. Granted it is not out yet so they may just not mention that little detail at the moment.


Chamiso.... Welcome to the boards and feel free to jump into conversations or ask questions about your game. I'm in agreement with Amyers about getting a ball with a regular core as opposed to a generic core. One that you can look at is the new Roto Grip Hy-wire. In the 12 pounds ball it has the regular core, and is more aggressive than the one you currently have. I recommended this ball for one of my students and he loves the ball. It's a Hybrid Reactive and it's a symmetric ball, which will give more consistency. My advice is to check out the balls on Bowlingball.com. They're one of the best sites for comparison because they have a rating system called the perfect scale. The Pyramid is rated at 181 and the Rotogrip is at 196. So it is more aggressive but it won't over burden you by hooking too much.
Check 'em out. Good Luck and welcome aboard.

Alright I will look at the Roto Grip Hy-wire. I already do look at bowlingball.com it's where I got my ball from. If not the Roto Grip I will keep in mind that I need to stick to symmetrical cores so I will be less likely to end up with a generic.


If I may ask a personal question....why a 12lb ball? (not a question that needs to be answered) Do you throw a hook or a stright ball. if you were able to go to 14lbs there may be more choices.I went from 16 to 15, I wanted to try 14 but was afraid of loosing pin carry since I do not have a high mph..12.5. I'm new to all this new equipment and may be wrong. Some one correct me if I am. I just bought a 15# Track Heat and I love it. I also just won a Storm phase from here and can't wait to get it.

I am using a 12 pound ball because as I had mentioned in the original post I had been using a 10 pound ball before that it was a Brunswick Ringer. I had started out throwing a straight ball but wanted to start hooking so I would practice it on and off. One day had a weird pin fall leaving the 1,5,9, and 10 pins. Knowing that I pretty much had to hook the ball to pick it up as the easiest method had tried to hook the ball then and it had somehow clicked that time how to move to get the ball to hook and was able to actually get it working consistently within a short time after that. Eventually got to the point where I felt I couldn't improve with that ball anymore and felt it was due to weight as the ball was deflecting quite a bit. I had gotten up to around a 135 average with it. So I then picked up two house balls one 13 and one 12 pound. I was barely able to even throw the 13 pound ball. Then I tried the 12 pound ball it was a struggle but I was able to throw it and after about 3-4 frames became easier to throw so that was how I determined that I should use a 12 pound for the time being and ended up with the Pyramid Path Rising because it was similar to the Ringer I had in specs and since I knew I hadn't been throwing a hook for long and did like the motion of the Ringer figured I would try to stay with a similarly spec'ed ball so that the only thing I would have to really concentrate on was getting used to the weight. I am almost completely used to the weight now but about once or twice month I still seem to struggle for the first couple throws in practice with the weight so not ready to try and up the weight more yet.

I also figured I needed a more aggressive ball because of how little hook I have with it and I know the more aggressive equipment could do some of the work for me in that regard, as well as the fact that my brother has taken to wanting to bowl in tournaments so we did the local USBC open city tournament a few months back we did pretty good 3rd place in doubles or 2nd depending on how you want to look at it since 1st place was a two-way tie that had only beat us by 11 pins. The house the tournament was at has heavier oil than our normal house so I had to move more left since I'm left handed to get it to hook enough and that is kind of scary since it didn't leave much more room on that side of the lane for adjustments.

LOUVIT
06-21-2016, 03:10 PM
is it a fingertip ball? i only ask because you mentioned a house ball. hard to get a house ball to hook. For me going from a 10 year old ball to my new Track has totally changed me. this ball hits and hooks so good for me and the storm I just won is even more aggressive. if I hit the headpin even light the pins just fly. with my old ball I left a lot of 5 pins and 5-7's. I cannot accept that....lol

Chamiso
06-21-2016, 04:50 PM
The house ball was just to determine what weight of ball I was going to buy. I am currently using conventional grip have tried it with fingertip a couple times without the inserts though just through positioning my hand. Plan on having fingertip for my next ball.

Davidjr113
06-21-2016, 05:02 PM
Hywire has a generic core at 13 & 12 according to rotogrip website. I have yet to find a high performance ball where that is not the case, try as I might

Chamiso
06-21-2016, 06:50 PM
Hmm, so sounds like that since I'm not really pressed for a ball yet. Probably, just buy a 14 pound ball of similar stats to what I am currently using still conventional grip just so I have more of my fingers helping me to hold the ball until I get enough strength to be able to handle then look at getting high performance balls and moving to fingertip grip to add more versatility to my game while having whatever I choose for my initial 14 becoming my spare ball more than likely.

Amyers
06-22-2016, 09:15 AM
Hywire has a generic core at 13 & 12 according to rotogrip website. I have yet to find a high performance ball where that is not the case, try as I might

Motiv uses the same core in their lighter weight balls and most Brunswick symmetrical balls have the same core in the lighter weights. Finding which is which can be difficult and often takes visiting multiple websites as not all website and manufactures list that info. On a symmetrical ball it's not as big a deal if they use a generic core in the lighter weights as most of those generic cores are the lightbulb shape which is really a great rolling core. Where the issues is for me is that if I pay $200+ for a asymmetrical core ball and then don't get that core and performance I'm going to be upset.

Chamiso
06-22-2016, 01:48 PM
I think in my efforts to get stronger so when I buy balls I will get the actual cores I will move from my current ball to either the Roto Grip Hy-Road Pearl or the Radical Rave On both seem to be similar to what I am currently using so there shouldn't be much of a learning curve beyond training myself to use the heavier 14 pound ball.

Davidjr113
06-22-2016, 04:40 PM
Amyers

Would love you to be correct on Motiv & Brunswick, at least sometimes, using same core in lighter weights, but don't THINK you are. Please be specific as to which balls you refer to, at least one or two, to allow me to research. Thanks

Dave

classygranny
06-22-2016, 10:44 PM
Hmm, so sounds like that since I'm not really pressed for a ball yet. Probably, just buy a 14 pound ball of similar stats to what I am currently using still conventional grip just so I have more of my fingers helping me to hold the ball until I get enough strength to be able to handle then look at getting high performance balls and moving to fingertip grip to add more versatility to my game while having whatever I choose for my initial 14 becoming my spare ball more than likely.

I would suggest you consider going to a fingertip with the next ball. As weird as it sounds, the fingertip will actually make the ball feel lighter. You will then be able to learn to release the fingertip and not have to re-learn so many things in your transitions. The reason the house balls feels so heavy is that they don't fit properly, so you should be able to handle a ball about 2 lbs heavier than a comfortable weight house ball. Ask you PSO for an opinion. There are ways to test for weight, possibly some of those ideas may be on this site - or at least on the internet.

got_a_300
06-23-2016, 10:11 AM
Amyers

Would love you to be correct on Motiv & Brunswick, at least sometimes, using same core in lighter weights, but don't THINK you are. Please be specific as to which balls you refer to, at least one or two, to allow me to research. Thanks

Dave

Amyers is correct on the Motiv balls all having regular cores in all weights now as
for Brunswick that is a different story most of their 12 and 13 pound balls have a
generic core shape but as far as I can tell Motiv has the same core in all of them.

If you go to bowlingball.com and click on Motiv balls then you can click on weights
on any one of them and there is no mention of a generic core shape on any of their
stuff but click on Brunswick and it will tell you that the 12 and 13 pounds have the
generic core shape on them.

Amyers
06-23-2016, 10:47 AM
Amyers

Would love you to be correct on Motiv & Brunswick, at least sometimes, using same core in lighter weights, but don't THINK you are. Please be specific as to which balls you refer to, at least one or two, to allow me to research. Thanks

Dave

Dave I was speaking more to the fact that you will see more difference with the generic cores used in an asymmetrical ball rather than a symmetrical one but I was somewhat incorrect on Brunswick the only ball they currently make 12-16 with the same core is the Rhino. I'm pretty sure that I am correct on Motiv but I don't see the info on their site anymore so to double check I emailed Motiv's customer service and will reply with their reply. Sorry if I misled anyone.

Davidjr113
06-23-2016, 11:44 AM
It will be interesting to see what Motiv says, I rely on makers website specs rather than bb.com. Some makers are very evasive on their sites about core info in lower weights but I have always seen similar or same differential numbers for 14-16, and a much lower diff number for lighter weights, indicating a different core. Latest Motiv numbers for Motiv Primal Rages at 13 lbs are about same as 14-16, not so for 12 lbs, though. Rest of Motiv line showing much lower differential once you drop below 14. I have been told really high tech cores are so heavy themselves, the cover and filler cannot be light enough to make a lower weight. I will certainly be trying the Primal Rages at 13 if Motiv confirms it has the same core as 14-16

Amyers
06-23-2016, 01:26 PM
It will be interesting to see what Motiv says, I rely on makers website specs rather than bb.com. Some makers are very evasive on their sites about core info in lower weights but I have always seen similar or same differential numbers for 14-16, and a much lower diff number for lighter weights, indicating a different core. Latest Motiv numbers for Motiv Primal Rages at 13 lbs are about same as 14-16, not so for 12 lbs, though. Rest of Motiv line showing much lower differential once you drop below 14. I have been told really high tech cores are so heavy themselves, the cover and filler cannot be light enough to make a lower weight. I will certainly be trying the Primal Rages at 13 if Motiv confirms it has the same core as 14-16

Well I sent this question to motiv:


I have heard that Motiv uses the same core design in all of their ball weights can you tell me is this true? And if it is only on some models which models that is true for?

Thanks,

Andrew


And I received this in response:

Hello Andrew,

This is in-fact true of all of our balls in all weights. Every ball that we produce in the lower weights below 14 pounds does have the same weight block in them with just different RG and Differential properties in them to make up for the change in weight. If you have any further questions, please let me know.

Thank you

Nick Pahr
Motiv Bowling
Phone: (616) 850-9868 Ext: 101
Fax: (616) 846-1473


So Motiv does use the same core in all of their balls even the Asymmetrical ones which is pretty awesome info for those of you that throw lighter weight equipment.

Davidjr113
06-23-2016, 03:44 PM
Sounds like he is saying they are using the same high tech weight block, but modifying it for a different RG & diff. So it can't be the same weight block exactly, it IS modified. BUT, presumably is is engineered using the same high tech weight block technology, rather than just using a well used generic. All very interesting, especially if one had been forced to drop below 14, at least temporarily, as I have. Will have me studying Motiv more deeply