Doing the ABT against my better judgement...

[Aslan]

I noticed a flyer that the ABT was having a tournament at my home center. I figured it being my home center I might have an advantage...despite my inflated 193-194 USBC average. I've been really uncertain about it.

On the one hand, it's gonna cost me like $150 to do this thing. I think it's 5 games. And if I'm being honest...unless I'm entering with a 178 average...I don't have much of a chance. I figured I'd start doing the ABT if I could get my average up to about 216...and I'm nowhere near that....even on easy lanes I'm a best case 190-195 bowler. Not to mention, there are going to be 7-11 strike balls tonight at the Saturday nightly tournament...I probably have a better shot at winning money there than I do at this ABT tournament.

But...there's a classic division and a Master's Division...so as long as I'm in the Classic division...I might be able to be a little bit competitive. It beats sitting around all day...bowling is better than most other things I could waste $150 on. It's next door, home center...who knows? So...time to jump in the shower and get my gear...and probably go get embarassed!! :( :confused:

[LOUVIT]

good luck and think positive.....

[ytlas]

I noticed a flyer that the ABT was having a tournament at my home center. I figured it being my home center I might have an advantage...despite my inflated 193-194 USBC average. I've been really uncertain about it.

On the one hand, it's gonna cost me like $150 to do this thing. I think it's 5 games. And if I'm being honest...unless I'm entering with a 178 average...I don't have much of a chance. I figured I'd start doing the ABT if I could get my average up to about 216...and I'm nowhere near that....even on easy lanes I'm a best case 190-195 bowler. Not to mention, there are going to be 7-11 strike balls tonight at the Saturday nightly tournament...I probably have a better shot at winning money there than I do at this ABT tournament.

But...there's a classic division and a Master's Division...so as long as I'm in the Classic division...I might be able to be a little bit competitive. It beats sitting around all day...bowling is better than most other things I could waste $150 on. It's next door, home center...who knows? So...time to jump in the shower and get my gear...and probably go get embarassed!! :( :confused:

Linbrook Bowl? Good luck

[Aslan]

I'll post scores in my scores thread...but since this was my first ABT tournament, I figure I'll add some thoughts/impressions:

Positives:
- The people were really nice.
- It's very well-run and organized.
- It seems relatively fair, at least compared to the abta tournaments.
- I didn't feel completely outclassed.

Negatives:
- It's not 100% fair. There is a system of "bonus pins" where each time you participate and don't make the cut...you get some amount of extra pins in future tournaments.
- It's expensive. I'd say, with all the add-on money, it's roughly TWICE as expensive as the abta. You could get in the abta tournament for about $100 and be a in a couple brackets. I paid $140 just to get in the tournament with no brackets. Like the abta...you can get in for cheaper...but even if you run the table and dominate the tournament...you get roughly 1/3 of the maximum payout.

Overall:
It would be fun to do...almost like a travel league...if it was about 50% cheaper. I mean, paying $60 a week to take part and have a chance at real money...a handicap environment...it would be doable. But, it's like playing slot machines...sure, you can play for a penny...but even if you hit the jackpot you win $3. So, you end up making the max bet...and then if you hit the jackpot you get $2500 but it costs you like $3.50 per play.

They have a free tournament coming up in August that I'll probably go to...even though it's over in MWhite's neck of the woods...which is essentially like the area of California where people who aren't cool enough to live in the Fresno/Bakersfield area live...like, Southern California's armpit...so it'll take a good 4 hours to drive 35 miles to go to this thing unless I leave at 4AM. But..."free" is "free"...and I like "free".

[JaxBowlingGuy]

If the ABT there is anything like FL it's all about how good you can sandbag

[JaxBowlingGuy]

As for entry, that's not horrible. PBA regional tournaments are 285 for non members and usually only pays 2-2500... I'm planning on shooting one next weekend that's $400 entry but it's a $20,000 guarantee first.

[Aslan]

If the ABT there is anything like FL it's all about how good you can sandbag

It's better than the abta. The abta in Orange County is run by a group of asians that are all related and friends/family. So, you get there and end up bowling against someone with a supposed 164 average and they shoot nearly a 700 scratch. And the same people almost always win.

The thing I don't like about the ABT is they lower the participant averages each tournament and they give bonus pins if you don't make the cut. I understand the reasoning behind it...to allow everyone to be competitive. But, like today; I end up bowling against a guy who is easily a high 180s to low 200s average bowler and somehow I get 25 pins handicap and he gets 35 pins of handicap.

Maybe someday I'll get good enough to just bowl in scratch tournaments. Then, there's no real way to sandbag.

[JaxBowlingGuy]

It's better than the abta. The abta in Orange County is run by a group of asians that are all related and friends/family. So, you get there and end up bowling against someone with a supposed 164 average and they shoot nearly a 700 scratch. And the same people almost always win.

The thing I don't like about the ABT is they lower the participant averages each tournament and they give bonus pins if you don't make the cut. I understand the reasoning behind it...to allow everyone to be competitive. But, like today; I end up bowling against a guy who is easily a high 180s to low 200s average bowler and somehow I get 25 pins handicap and he gets 35 pins of handicap.

Maybe someday I'll get good enough to just bowl in scratch tournaments. Then, there's no real way to sandbag.

I know all about that inflated handicap because of "bonus" pins. There's a guy at one of the larger tournaments in Orlando that booked a 214 but gets 44 pins a game in that tournament.

Funny you mention Asians. Ours aren't ran by asians, but they are won by them quite often. The 20k handicap event a couple month again was.

[Stormed1]

The idea behind the bonus pins is to get people coming back. If they fail to cash week after week they get tired of spending the money and quit coming However once you cash the bonus pins go away and it starts all over

[Mike White]

The idea behind the bonus pins is to get people coming back. If they fail to cash week after week they get tired of spending the money and quit coming However once you cash the bonus pins go away and it starts all over

It's the reverse of the Soon Henry handicapping system.


Soon Henry:

Mice race down a track and people bet on which one will get there first.

The winning mouse gets a piece of cheese.

If a mouse wins enough, it gets full of cheese, and runs slower.

So poor Henry (the mouse) hasn't won yet, and looks up at the guy running the race as if to ask... when will I win?

Soon Henry... all the other mice are getting full.

[Mike White]

The idea behind the bonus pins is to get people coming back. If they fail to cash week after week they get tired of spending the money and quit coming However once you cash the bonus pins go away and it starts all over

I bowled in about 5 or 6 ABT tournaments back in the early 80's.

Not enough to earn bonus pins, but when I won one of them, I was re-rated to 0 pin handicap.

I knew enough to take that money and run.

[Aslan]

The idea behind the bonus pins is to get people coming back. If they fail to cash week after week they get tired of spending the money and quit coming However once you cash the bonus pins go away and it starts all over
Right. I see the point of it. It just makes it ripe for "issues".

I thought that my entering with a < 199 that I'd be in a different division than the 200+ bowlers...but I guess they only do that at the National tournaments. And I'm not sure if the 200 is the "book" book average...or if it's the re-rated average. I just have a feeling that every event there's gonna be a guy that averages 215 and is getting an extra 10 pins of handicap...meaning I essentially have to not just bowl above my average...and not just bowl above my inflated current average...but I gotta bowl better than I pretty much ever have...ever.


It's the reverse of the Soon Henry handicapping system.......Soon Henry... all the other mice are getting full.
That's funny. But the fatal flaw is...even the mice that get the cheese once...are still gonna be hungry if they don't win every time. So lets say you won that tournament...then don't cash a few times...now you're back to getting bonus pins.


Funny you mention Asians. Ours aren't ran by asians, but they are won by them quite often. The 20k handicap event a couple month again was.
I'm trying not to be racist or generalize...it's just that some people (regardless of race) seem to think that if there's a way to cheat...then it's not really stealing. I used to argue this ALL THE TIME when I played paintball. One of the biggest problem with paintball is people can modify the equipment to shot "hot"; which is shoot at a higher feet per second than the limits of the rules. The other big problem is "wiping"...where a person gets hit and wipes it off before being called out. Most people despise this behavior....but there are some that believe "if you aren't cheating, you aren't trying."

And we see the same thing in bowling with sandbagging. People just feel that the rules don't apply to them and have no regard for other people...no sense of fair play...and it's just infuriating.

[got_a_300]

They tried to have the ABT tournaments around here back in the late 80's but
everyone around here seen what ABT meant (Another Baggers Tournament)
after the first one so they didn't have much of a chance to have any more after
that.

If I remember correctly the second one they tried to have at our center only 2
or 3 people showed up for it and they were from out of town all of our bowers
said no way so that ended that.

[Aslan]

Just to be positive...

...I think it IS possible to have a positive experience with the ABT. The format does sort of even things out over time. The problem is, the cost. Even if you don't get in any brackets or sidepots or anything like that...it's usually $100 entry. $60 + $40 for what they call "Megapot". One strategy could be to just get in for $60...until your average is down and you have bonus pins and are bowling really well...then start getting in the Megapot. That would allow you to participate in 25 tournaments before needing to win to break even. If you do the megapot each time, you need to win after 15 tournaments to break even.

I wish they would do away with the "Megapot" format. I think you pay your entry and if you win, you get the first prize. You shouldn't have to decided how much you want to win before the tournament. If a person thinks they have a better chance on a given day...that's what brackets and sidepots are for.

And rather than keep raising the average for participation, it's my opinion that all USBC sanctioned leagues should have to put down the USBC Red pattern. No more THS nonsense. If they want to put down a THS for their non-sanctioned cr*p...that's fine. But if we can go back to having patterns that are at least GENERALLY similar house to house...then maybe we won't see all these bowlers with 200-225 averages that can't seem to break 185 at the USBC Open.

And yes, I realize putting down the same pattern won't be identical. There will still be differences due to oiling machine, lane-to-lane differences, environmental differences, and center to center differences.

And yes, I realize everyone will complain and whine and cry like tiny little babies. But I'm tired of the USBC claiming they have to do things to make the sport more popular...but they ruin the sport in the process. They allow crazy strong equipment. They allow wrist braces. They allow houses to put down whatever oil pattern they want. And they even attempt to change the scoring to make spare shooting less important. And all that does is build up the egos of amateur bowlers to the point that they 'think' they are practically pros...and when they test that against pros...they get humiliated and say "*#$& it!!" Then they spend their time sandbagging and trying to cheat the system...because that's a lot easier than ACTUALLY working towards being a pro-level bowler. Sad.

[ytlas]

I haven't watched an ABT tournament in person in ages. I do remember many bowlers who qualified high on the board would bowl a couple of more squads and do poorly so their overall average for the weekend wasn't too much higher than what they started with so they wouldn't lose much handicap unless they won the tournament. Even if they did poorly on Sunday, the money collected would cover the extra entries.

Coloradosports.tv on YouTube carries the finals of the Denver Branch of the ABT every week. On the videos I've seen, the handicaps seem to be accurate to the bowler's skill level. However one video I watched of an ABT "National Tournament" at The South Point (I believe) was filled with bowlers who seemed to have way too much handicap for their skill level.