Why don't women do 2 handed?

[2handedsniper]

Is it physical?

[Jaescrub]

That's silly I have two lady's and two guys that bowl two handed in my league. One of the lady's has a 225 avg.

[RobLV1]

I coach junior bowlers in a doubles league on sport patterns on Saturday mornings. While there are several male two-handers, there is only one female. Her main issue is her size in relation to the bowling ball. The ball is so big compared to her arm length that she has trouble generating the speed to match up to her rev rate. She is learning to compensate by varying her axis rotation, particularly at right side spares.

[Amyers]

When I was at the junior gold competition with my daughter there were two female two handed bowlers out of a field of 130 or so

[2handedsniper]

2 out of 130 is unacceptable, it really is the better of the two styles, alot of one armed bowlers get injured. Randy Peterson has had 3 knees. Wes Mallot has had 2 knees. Chris Barnes has had a new back.

[LyalC52]

IMO, the majority of the ladies are more concerned with a repeatable solid game, not just trying to look cool

have you noticed the lack of 2 handers on college teams (both men and women)?
again IMO its because most 2 handers are more concerned with looking cool than being a team player and shooting consistent scores on any lane pattern

[Amyers]

The real reason that you don't see as much of the 2 handed style in college is the fact that it's more of a team game. One guy going in and blowing the lanes up with his "style" isn't going to last long regardless of how talented he is as a bowler.

Learning to break down lanes properly is difficult for even the younger one handed bowlers. I've met a few two handlers who are capable but most of them just don't think that way

[1VegasBowler]

2 out of 130 is unacceptable, it really is the better of the two styles, alot of one armed bowlers get injured. Randy Peterson has had 3 knees. Wes Mallot has had 2 knees. Chris Barnes has had a new back.

Unacceptable by who's standards? Yours?

I've had 7 knee & 4 shoulder surgeries before I came back to bowling in 2014. I also have a bad back and a case of gout.

When I tried 2 handed for a couple of frames a couple of months ago, I thought I would have to call 911 to carry me out.

For my left knee, I wear a compression sleeve, a knee brace AND compression pants. For my right shoulder, I wear a compression shirt AND a compression shoulder brace, and I have less pain now than ever before.

I don't think there is enough data out there to determine if 2 handed is better than 1 handed, especially when it comes to injuries. ESPECIALLY when it comes to a long term look.

If 2 handed is so much better, it begs the question as to WHY don't the rest of the pros make the change to it??

When I worked the Queens Tournament here at the Orleans a few months ago, I cannot recall seeing any of these women going 2 handed.

When I worked the USBC PBA50 Masters at Sams Town, there were no 2 handers participating.

The 2 handers I see in any of the leagues or tournaments they're in, their biggest problem is consistency and accuracy, and they have not fared well at all. ESPECIALLY on the PBA Animal patterns.

Throwing with 1 hand or 2 is all a personal decision.

[2handedsniper]

Welcome back to bowling after your long absence. 2 handed gets more power but less control. when you miss a 7 pin, we carry it.
but when you hit the pocket you get 9 or 10 whereas we could get 7 or 6.

[JaxBowlingGuy]

Unacceptable by who's standards? Yours?

I've had 7 knee & 4 shoulder surgeries before I came back to bowling in 2014. I also have a bad back and a case of gout.

When I tried 2 handed for a couple of frames a couple of months ago, I thought I would have to call 911 to carry me out.

For my left knee, I wear a compression sleeve, a knee brace AND compression pants. For my right shoulder, I wear a compression shirt AND a compression shoulder brace, and I have less pain now than ever before.

I don't think there is enough data out there to determine if 2 handed is better than 1 handed, especially when it comes to injuries. ESPECIALLY when it comes to a long term look.

If 2 handed is so much better, it begs the question as to WHY don't the rest of the pros make the change to it??

When I worked the Queens Tournament here at the Orleans a few months ago, I cannot recall seeing any of these women going 2 handed.

When I worked the USBC PBA50 Masters at Sams Town, there were no 2 handers participating.

The 2 handers I see in any of the leagues or tournaments they're in, their biggest problem is consistency and accuracy, and they have not fared well at all. ESPECIALLY on the PBA Animal patterns.

Throwing with 1 hand or 2 is all a personal decision.

Sounds like you need a whole body replacement lol I feel your pain though. My knee and finger primarily. Got a cortisone injection in the finger today and go back next week for the knee.

[1VegasBowler]

Sounds like you need a whole body replacement lol I feel your pain though. My knee and finger primarily. Got a cortisone injection in the finger today and go back next week for the knee.

For real! lol

The left knee has to be replaced, the right shoulder needs surgery again and I need surgery on my back for the herniated disk. And thanks to a case of kidney stones back in March, everything gets set back another year.

In the mean time, I'll get another shot of Celestone in the knee.

Good luck with your injection and the knee. And I certainly can feel your pain as well! lol

[1VegasBowler]

Welcome back to bowling after your long absence. 2 handed gets more power but less control. when you miss a 7 pin, we carry it.
but when you hit the pocket you get 9 or 10 whereas we could get 7 or 6.

Thank you.

And I think this is why the pros don't switch to 2 handed. The issue of accuracy is a major point in this.

Yea, Belmo, Jesper Svenson, Osku Palermo & Kyle Troup have done well, but only Belmo has it at a level none of the others have figured out yet. The others have more miss than hits on their success, which makes me wonder how good they will really be down the road.

I also have a feeling that they are going to have some major injuries down the road as well. While I never wish that on anybody, my gut says it's going to happen, and then you have to wonder what is going to happen to their careers.

My injuries are manageable right now with what I'm wearing, and some ibuprofen every time I go out there.

My style of bowling makes it easier on me as well. I take a walking 5 step approach, and have a very short arm swing than is similar to Marshall Holman and WRW, Jr.

Up until the end of July, I was using #12 equipment and I had a reputation in this town for having hard hits and many strikes which is not supposed to be normal for somebody using #12 equipment. I'm now using a #14 Ultimate Nirvana with my #12's for when conditions dictate that my Ultimate is too strong.

[ep1977]

I've never seen a 2 handed woman bowler.

[NewToBowling]

I've never seen a 2 handed woman bowler.

Me neither. Not saying they're not out there but seems to be like the unicorn.

[2handedsniper]

neither have I, I wonder how the females I am going to coach soon take to my lessons?

[classygranny]

When I bowled in the Vegas senior fun tournament last July, there was a 2-handed female bowler. She had only been bowling about 3 years, and yes, she struggled with accuracy. She said it was hard on her body at a senior age, but that is how her young coach taught her so she was unsure of how to change.

I do think men have it easier to bowl 2-handed as I believe it is more physically challenging.

[1VegasBowler]

When I bowled in the Vegas senior fun tournament last July, there was a 2-handed female bowler. She had only been bowling about 3 years, and yes, she struggled with accuracy. She said it was hard on her body at a senior age, but that is how her young coach taught her so she was unsure of how to change.

I do think men have it easier to bowl 2-handed as I believe it is more physically challenging.

While it may appear easier for men, I don't see it as being a joy for either.

And there are far too many moving parts for accuracy as well.

If one wants to challenge themselves in bowling, I would much rather play on an extremely tough sport pattern than go 2 handed.

[2handedsniper]

I'm surprised more women do not bowl 2 handed as not all two handed bowlers bend there back alot

[taxexpert2]

If you watch some of the youngsters (and I mean young - 6-10) I think you will see more female's trying a two handed style. Will they stick with it? Depends on their success I guess. I had someone offer to teach me but I declined. I was dealing with a hand injury that forced me to switch hands in bowling. That was enough of a task.

[billf]

To bowl two-handed correctly for the speed and accuracy the spine is suppose to be parallel to the floor. Two-handed also requires more upper body strength especially in the arms, shoulders and upper back. This is why the majority who don't bowl two handed with the body in the correct biomechanical position lack the proper ball speed for the rev rate and axis rotation.

Belmo said a few years back that he would love to find an athletic female under age ten to teach to bowl two handed as he believes she would dominate the sport.

I do know two male college two handers. One was on the Urbana University national championship team a few years back. He was able to lower his speed and rev rate, stay super smooth to play outside with is teammates when needed without having to resort to urethane which would really screw up the line.

[taxexpert2]

The other thought I had was that there are no two handed role models for a very young girl to try to emulate. No pro two handed female bowlers. Maybe there are reasons. I like Belmo's idea though. Lets have the women dominate this sport!!!

[fordman1]

Could it be that women have wider hips rather than wider shoulders?

[2handedsniper]

Deleted- This will be your LAST warning. Next will be a perm ban from the forums.

-StormBowler13

[billf]

Derp Derp

Two handed bowling is covered in the Bronze seminar and needed knowledge to pass the test. Comments such as this is why I can say unequivocally you are a fraud and definitely in no uncertain terms not a certified USBC coach! My guess by your posts is your some school age kid trying hard to pretend to be an adult. Usually not a point in this forum but for you I'm making an exception.

[JaxBowlingGuy]

SMH, just cant have nice things lol

[jimgilmore]

I would think the case for why there are not more two handed bowlers has a lot more to do with emulating what most of us see and are taught than the little bit of air time that 2 handed bowlers have received. WE as in humans,people emulate what we have seen and we have seen far more 1 handed bowlers and there is far more education /coaching towards the 1 handed style. Yes, little kids will try the 2 handed method to get started but once they go to buy a ball they are often taught 1 handed and the ball gets drilled for 1 handed. In the absence or coaching by somebody whom has used the two handed method I do not see nor expect a big change in what we see kids doing and after kids then adults changing. At 60 years old I do not see me making any drastic changes to my game unless its standing t the line to throw my ball.

[AlexNC]

At 60 years old I do not see me making any drastic changes to my game unless its standing t the line to throw my ball.

In my mind, I have trouble envisioning the current generation of two handers being able to withstand the physical demands of the style when they reach age 60, or even less. I am not against the style, but I'm not sure it will allow someone like Jason Belmonte to last as long as the PBA50 Tour players who are still competitive on the regular PBA tour. Time will tell I suppose.

[2handedsniper]

There are a few ways to bowl two handed . I bowl like him and this way is less stressful on the body.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vOij1prDhmI

[fordman1]

That video is 10 yrs. old What does he bowl like now? Looks like the lane takes a beating too.

[Aslan]

This is kinda a new spin on the same old, "2 handers are ruining the sport" debate.

Women ARE physically different than men. The USBC teaches that in their Junior coaching program. Women have certain advantages (such as lesser height on average) and they're usually more graceful and less likely to "muscle" the ball. Women also are usually born with the ability to throw a back-up ball because of slight differences anatomically with men in their arms/elbows/wrists. Women (most) naturally can rotate their palms clockwise from the 6 o'clock position to the 2 o'clock position easily. Most men struggle to get too much past 12 o'clock.

Now, that being said...you WILL see an occasional male that throws a back-up ball. And believe it or not...I had one guy in my old Wednesday league that actually averaged in the 190s throwing that way. If it works...it's all the advantages of being a lefty without actually being a lefty.

There are more 2-handers in youth bowling than in senior bowling. The reason is that nobody who learned to bowl past the age of 7 threw 2-handed. 2-handed bowling was like between the legs bowling...kids did it because kids didn't have the strength in one arm to throw a 7-9lb ball. And since kids didn't really have an "approach"...it was actually harder on them to throw one-handed than a person utilizing the approach. Additionally, nobody at higher levels or ages was throwing 2-handed...so nobody wanted to be the first. Everyone in college and the pros threw variations of the traditional, optimal style...and thats what kids ended up learning.

Seeing women bowl 2-handed is hampered by the mathematics (few women sport bowl compared to men) and by age. While male boys get much stronger as they age...a woman's body transitions to being a mother. Hips get wider (which interferes with the swing plane). And once they carry, give birth to, and care for children...thats a weakening experience...especially for their backs.

2-handed bowling has some advantages in power and carry. Just like throwing 16lb equipment tends to have those same advantages for traditional bowlers. Another weakness in women's bowling (with some noteable exceptions) is their tendency to throw bowling balls in the 9lb-15lb weight range...where as men tend to throw 14-16lb equipment. Like 2-handed bowling, there ARE trade-offs to using heavier equipment:

1) Rev Rate
2) Stress on the back
and for 2-handed bowling there is also:
3) Spare shooting usually suffers
4) Consistency (like palm and thumbless bowlers) tends to suffer
5) They are much more dependent on arsenals and conditions.

Two-Handed bowling allows you to negate #1...the same way a bowler bowling with 16lb equipment can get much more revs when they drop to 14 or 15 pound equipment. Two-handed bowling isn't original or exclusive here though...many bowlers have tried to cheat their way to higher rev rates by dropping weight, removing their thumb from the hole, and/or palming the ball.

2) Most bowlers will eventually suffer a knee injury of some kind. Bowling is also tough on your ankles, elbows, shoulders, wrist, and back. If done in moderation and the athlete keeps themselves in good physical shape...maybe you survive a career with just minor knee issues. 2-handed bowling relieves stress on most (if not all) of those joints....BUT....it adds up all that abuse...spares the other joints...and deposits it directly on your back...which is why I've contended that Belmo will never surpass bowling greats like Anthony, WRW, Bohn, Weber, Duke, etc... Belmo's back won't be able to survive a lengthy career. And once the back goes...2-handed bowling becomes impossible. You will see 2-handers LEARNING to bowl 1-handed for the PBA50 in the future...because their backs can't handle 2-handed bowling.

3) Yes, the top 30 2-handed bowlers are excellent > 93% single-pin spare shooters. Absolutely. But MOST aren't. Some even throw 1-handed at spares for that very reason.

4) The biggest disadvantage a bowler has...when that bowler is putting undue effort into their swing...is that it's nearly impossible to do it consistently...and your body tends to tire quickly. I've watched palm bowlers bowl a 279 in Game 1, then a 152 in Game 3. It takes much better stamina and much better physical shape...to put THAT much effort into your swing...especially by the 25th-45th swing.

5) If the conditions are short and/or dry...their toast. They need a LOT of weak equipment...a variety of weak equipment...and a much better grasp of the pattern. Their entire style is dependent on hitting at 8-board area 45-50ft away. If that area moves...or becomes bigger or closer....toast.

So why do we have 2-handed bowling? Well, for the same reason we have backwards bowling (a player walks in reverse towards the foul line) and between the legs bowling. They are easier when you are 4-7 years old. Most eventually learn that you can bowl much better 1-handed...if you actually LEARN how to bowl. Some say, "Nope...I like throwing it this way." Most (99.99997%), eventually realize how hard 2-handed bowling is...and switch as they get serious about bowling. A few move on...until Belmo...most switched LOOONG before they got to college/pros. Now many bowlers are seeing Belmo's success and thinking 2-handed is a short cut to bowling dominance. In all my anti-2 handed bowling rants....I've repeated...it's NOT! It's NOT a short cut. It's a LONG LONG road...where you have to be in better shape...and work 3-4x as hard at spares and consistency than a 1-handed bowler...and ultimately...at some point in your career...you will have to switch to 1-handed bowling. Belmo and Wesley Low, and Kyle Troup make it look easy...it is NOT easy. Striking may be easier...."area bowling" may be easier...300 games may come easier. But a consistent high average, solid spare shooting, and winning torunaments...I think it's harder as a 2-hander. And most I've competed against...they get destroyed in brackets...because by Game 3 they can only throw a 160 game with very little handicap. I HATE getting paired up against them in the First Game bracket...because when they're fresh...they're throwing pins everywhere. But, I love getting them in Game 3....they're sweating and panting and holding their back...smiling and joking because they had two huge games...then 1st frame...4-6-7-9-10 split. And thats when I smile.

[taxexpert2]

Wow. This whole subjet stirred up a pot of soup. Great discussion even if some ppl are a little off kilter.