New Ball suggestion

[Tony]

Last Friday I was bowling and one of the guys that came over to talk was the pro shop operator, I asked him for some feedback on the ball I was using, an Storm IQ 30th anniversary. I also threw a High Road for a few frames.
I always considered myself an average speed low rev player and was surprised that he suggested I was a above average speed low rev player and would benefit from using a ball with a dull surface on the fairly heavily oiled lanes at that house.

Specifically he suggested a Ebonite Warrior elite and said he would have to order it as he was out of that model.

I am thinking about getting one and wondered if anyone is using one and how they like it.

[AlexNC]

The IQ Tour Solid has the same cover (albeit minus the pearl, but that impact is subject to debate.) You could take the Tour 30 to the same dull finish instead of the Storm 1500 polish finish. The Tour Solid is finished at 4000 abralon, and the steps are slightly different. Might be worth a try to see if it works better for you. FWIW I have a tour solid and also lower revs. I haven't been able to use it much lately - my house has a bit lighter oil. It has worked for me in the past with med-heavy oil.

[billf]

I love my Warrior Elite!!!

I ordered it to replace my illegal Jackal Carnage for sport shots. The Warrior Elite is even better than the Carnage was. Another ball I don't own but love the way it goes down the lane with others using it is the Roto Grip No Rules. It's also for heavier volumes, dull and all that happy stuff.

[Tony]

The IQ Tour Solid has the same cover (albeit minus the pearl, but that impact is subject to debate.) You could take the Tour 30 to the same dull finish instead of the Storm 1500 polish finish. The Tour Solid is finished at 4000 abralon, and the steps are slightly different. Might be worth a try to see if it works better for you. FWIW I have a tour solid and also lower revs. I haven't been able to use it much lately - my house has a bit lighter oil. It has worked for me in the past with med-heavy oil.

That's a good idea to change surface but I would rather not mess with that ball since it works great at other houses around here with a little lighter oil. I might try using the Diva Divine I have that's a matte surface / or playing with that surface but I am thinking of getting the suggested ball.
In the past many times I've chosen my own ball or chosen a ball similar to what one of the PSO guys with whom I've bowled recommended, this guy bowls in my league and knows the lanes and balls well. He is also a very good bowler himself, averages somewhere over 250. Might be worth trying what he suggests.

[Tony]

I love my Warrior Elite!!!

I ordered it to replace my illegal Jackal Carnage for sport shots. The Warrior Elite is even better than the Carnage was. Another ball I don't own but love the way it goes down the lane with others using it is the Roto Grip No Rules. It's also for heavier volumes, dull and all that happy stuff.

Thanks for the feedback, I haven't noticed many people throwing the warrior elite or no rules, but I will be looking for them now. I suppose the bigger issue is that I'm expecting I would have to play further left and move my mark left to take proper advantage of the duller surface and more hook.

[Blomer]

I was and am a Storm guy, but I was at a ?Brunswick demo and threw a dv8 Grudge Hybrid! Bought one on the spot! It's nuts! Hits hard! Tonight it just kept coming back. Can miss your mark by a bit and still hit the pocket!

[Tony]

I was and am a Storm guy, but I was at a ?Brunswick demo and threw a dv8 Grudge Hybrid! Bought one on the spot! It's nuts! Hits hard! Tonight it just kept coming back. Can miss your mark by a bit and still hit the pocket!

Funny you should mention that ball, he (PSO who knows I have had a couple of DV8 balls) pointed out one other ball, the Grudge Hybrid and said, if you like DV8 this ball would be good too. Those were the only two balls he suggested.

[1VegasBowler]

The Grudge Hybrid is an excellent ball. Good energy and doesn't over hook when compared to the original Grudge or the Absolute Nirvana, which has even more hook than the Grudge.

I love the Ultimate Nirvana which is great on med-heavy oil conditions. When it becomes too much, I go directly to my Fanatic BTU.

[Amyers]

The Grudge Hybrid is an excellent ball. Good energy and doesn't over hook when compared to the original Grudge or the Absolute Nirvana, which has even more hook than the Grudge.

I love the Ultimate Nirvana which is great on med-heavy oil conditions. When it becomes too much, I go directly to my Fanatic BTU.

Man when you change balls you change balls lol

[Amyers]

I'm not sure there are any better hitting balls out there for medium/heavy shots than the Grudge/Nirvana lines right now. Unfortunately I never need that much ball.

[Tony]

I'm not sure there are any better hitting balls out there for medium/heavy shots than the Grudge/Nirvana lines right now. Unfortunately I never need that much ball.

I will have to look but I think he pointed out the Nirvana and Warrior supreme saying they would probably be too much ball for me, I just don't put enough revs into it.

When I see him tomorrow I'll have to discuss what type of line he see's me playing with a ball like that. I'm wondering if he would have me playing a lot deeper line and it seems when I played more like that with the Diva it didn't seem to hit that hard.

[Amyers]

Tony be careful with thinking there are huge differences between balls just because the proshop or manufacturer say it's a hybrid or pearl. The Nirvana, Warrior, Grudge are all high performance, strong balls, intended for medium/heavy to heavy oil. You can manipulate the surface on any ball to make it more of what you want regardless of cover stock type. If you put the same surface on any of these lines they will all roll within a board or two of each other at the most. Don't buy into the hype as you add surface (go to a lower number grit) the ball will have additional traction in oil and hook more overall. As you remove surface (higher number grit or polishing) the ball will handle less oil and hook more on the backend. You can't make a very aggressive ball less aggressive just change where the hook happens.

Don't be too worried if what you said was correct my wife is a higher speed low rev down and in player and she can use her original Nirvana just fine on most medium conditions, Me on the other hand I can go coast to coast with the least aggressive ball anyone makes with my lower speed delivery. To give you an idea she's about 14.5 to 15 on the monitors I come out at about 11 maybe 12.5 on a good day lol.

[1VegasBowler]

Man when you change balls you change balls lol

On the THS's in this town it ends up being the perfect change! lol

[1VegasBowler]

I'm not sure there are any better hitting balls out there for medium/heavy shots than the Grudge/Nirvana lines right now. Unfortunately I never need that much ball.

You can add the Vandal Smash to the list as well.

I haven't said much about this ball yet, but if I could afford this one I would have it as well.

Brunswick & DV8 have come out with an amazing line this year. They took the bull by the horns and hit grand slams all around.

[1VegasBowler]

Tony be careful with thinking there are huge differences between balls just because the proshop or manufacturer say it's a hybrid or pearl. The Nirvana, Warrior, Grudge are all high performance, strong balls, intended for medium/heavy to heavy oil. You can manipulate the surface on any ball to make it more of what you want regardless of cover stock type. If you put the same surface on any of these lines they will all roll within a board or two of each other at the most. Don't buy into the hype as you add surface (go to a lower number grit) the ball will have additional traction in oil and hook more overall. As you remove surface (higher number grit or polishing) the ball will handle less oil and hook more on the backend. You can't make a very aggressive ball less aggressive just change where the hook happens.

Don't be too worried if what you said was correct my wife is a higher speed low rev down and in player and she can use her original Nirvana just fine on most medium conditions, Me on the other hand I can go coast to coast with the least aggressive ball anyone makes with my lower speed delivery. To give you an idea she's about 14.5 to 15 on the monitors I come out at about 11 maybe 12.5 on a good day lol.

Spot on here.

Personally, I don't change the surfaces on any of my balls. I keep them OOB and bring what I think is going to be best for the night (usually 3 and my spare). Since you can't change surfaces during any competition, I'd rather make a ball change.

On the weekend of the 24th I have the Senior Singles Championships here in NV, The pattern is USBC White #3, and I'll have everything except the Ruckus Schizo. I'll start with my Ultimate, but if it doesn't feel good I'll go directly to my VDZ.

Most of us here have an arsenal where surface changes aren't really necessary. We can change to a less aggressive ball and get the same results. That's why you see me change from my Ultimate Nirvana to the BTU, because I can stay at 15 to 10 on the THS and not lose my shot.

[Amyers]

You can add the Vandal Smash to the list as well.

I haven't said much about this ball yet, but if I could afford this one I would have it as well.

Brunswick & DV8 have come out with an amazing line this year. They took the bull by the horns and hit grand slams all around.

Pretty much agree. I don't usually see very much DV8 here but I think the Grudge kind of changed that and the Radical Guru's and Ridiculous have been really popular. I haven't got to see a smash but if I had an open slot in my back right now it would have a Ridiculous pearl or original in it

[1VegasBowler]

Pretty much agree. I don't usually see very much DV8 here but I think the Grudge kind of changed that and the Radical Guru's and Ridiculous have been really popular. I haven't got to see a smash but if I had an open slot in my back right now it would have a Ridiculous pearl or original in it

When I was at the Bowl Expo 2016 demonstrations, Brunswick was really hyping the Absolute Nirvana and the BTU. While I'm not crazy about the Absolute, the BTU has been selling like mad. Most of the pro shops can't get enough of them, and are on back order.

Radical may have few to choose from, but they are getting it in gear and doing a great job.

So darn many good ones out here and not enough money, and no 15 ball carriers to have them all! lol

[Amyers]

Spot on here.

Personally, I don't change the surfaces on any of my balls. I keep them OOB and bring what I think is going to be best for the night (usually 3 and my spare). Since you can't change surfaces during any competition, I'd rather make a ball change.

On the weekend of the 24th I have the Senior Singles Championships here in NV, The pattern is USBC White #3, and I'll have everything except the Ruckus Schizo. I'll start with my Ultimate, but if it doesn't feel good I'll go directly to my VDZ.

Most of us here have an arsenal where surface changes aren't really necessary. We can change to a less aggressive ball and get the same results. That's why you see me change from my Ultimate Nirvana to the BTU, because I can stay at 15 to 10 on the THS and not lose my shot.

I wasn't really advocating a surface change just the awareness that surface is the difference between the balls (grudge/grudge Hybrid or Warrior/Supreme/Elite. This whole thing of dropping every ball out in a solid/hybrid/pearl and pretending like it's a brand new ball just drives me nuts. One of the women on my Saturday night league was remarking to me that she was waiting on a Pearl Nirvana to purchase a new ball. 190 average bowler throwing 10 year old Morich that I've been trying to convince to buy a new ball for a season and half now. Has the same span and close on the thumb so I changed out my wife's grips to her size threw the Nirvana I had laying around that was damaged by the ball return that I resurfaced after the alley replaced my wife's on the spinner put some polish on it and let her try it out she used it two weeks and went to the shop and bought her one.

I'm using my Einstein/VDZ and regular Fanatic the same way. The high amount of surface on the BTU scared me off. I've tried a few high surface weak balls before and it didn't end well with any of them for me.

[1VegasBowler]

I wasn't really advocating a surface change just the awareness that surface is the difference between the balls (grudge/grudge Hybrid or Warrior/Supreme/Elite. This whole thing of dropping every ball out in a solid/hybrid/pearl and pretending like it's a brand new ball just drives me nuts. One of the women on my Saturday night league was remarking to me that she was waiting on a Pearl Nirvana to purchase a new ball. 190 average bowler throwing 10 year old Morich that I've been trying to convince to buy a new ball for a season and half now. Has the same span and close on the thumb so I changed out my wife's grips to her size threw the Nirvana I had laying around that was damaged by the ball return that I resurfaced after the alley replaced my wife's on the spinner put some polish on it and let her try it out she used it two weeks and went to the shop and bought her one.

I'm using my Einstein/VDZ and regular Fanatic the same way. The high amount of surface on the BTU scared me off. I've tried a few high surface weak balls before and it didn't end well with any of them for me.

I understand my friend, and I didn't think you were advocating surface changes at all. But, there are PSO's out there who can be very closed minded about that.

A good PSO will listen and take everything into account about each individual and make recommendations that will fit that person's game best, not just the name on the ball.

Some are fanatics about changing their surface all of the time, and those fanatics are the same ones who have 15 balls at their disposal. Why have that many balls if you're only going to use 1 or 2 of them? Makes zero sense to me.

During the Lane Side Reviews video of the Fanatic BTU, they were saying that a person could go with the Fanatic & Fanatic BTU in their bag and have a complete arsenal, and I agree with that. Both are very versatile and can handle pretty much any lane condition you encounter.

Resurfacing is certainly a choice each bowler makes. The only time I do my surfacing is when I have my ball de-oiled, but I always keep them OOB.

[Amyers]

I understand my friend, and I didn't think you were advocating surface changes at all. But, there are PSO's out there who can be very closed minded about that.

A good PSO will listen and take everything into account about each individual and make recommendations that will fit that person's game best, not just the name on the ball.

Some are fanatics about changing their surface all of the time, and those fanatics are the same ones who have 15 balls at their disposal. Why have that many balls if you're only going to use 1 or 2 of them? Makes zero sense to me.

During the Lane Side Reviews video of the Fanatic BTU, they were saying that a person could go with the Fanatic & Fanatic BTU in their bag and have a complete arsenal, and I agree with that. Both are very versatile and can handle pretty much any lane condition you encounter.

Resurfacing is certainly a choice each bowler makes. The only time I do my surfacing is when I have my ball de-oiled, but I always keep them OOB.

My PSO originally went into the OOB surface is gold camp but I've changed his mind about it. Once he figured out he could help people get more what they want when they want it by being willing to change surfaces he converted pretty quick. He's old school but if you can show it to him he will adapt quick.

On a normal THS I agree not sure how well it would work on a heavier sport pattern. I did try it out on one of those wonderful (not) houses here that puts out a house shot that's dry over the middle and wet outside 10 and it wasn't pretty but I struggle on that with about anything other than my Einstein

Yeah I don't change the surface to necessarily fit conditions that's why I have 6 or 7 balls. But if I buy one that doesn't fit where I want it or just plain doesn't work I will change the surface in heart beat to something else.

[Tony]

Tony be careful with thinking there are huge differences between balls just because the proshop or manufacturer say it's a hybrid or pearl. The Nirvana, Warrior, Grudge are all high performance, strong balls, intended for medium/heavy to heavy oil. You can manipulate the surface on any ball to make it more of what you want regardless of cover stock type. If you put the same surface on any of these lines they will all roll within a board or two of each other at the most. Don't buy into the hype as you add surface (go to a lower number grit) the ball will have additional traction in oil and hook more overall. As you remove surface (higher number grit or polishing) the ball will handle less oil and hook more on the backend. You can't make a very aggressive ball less aggressive just change where the hook happens.

Don't be too worried if what you said was correct my wife is a higher speed low rev down and in player and she can use her original Nirvana just fine on most medium conditions, Me on the other hand I can go coast to coast with the least aggressive ball anyone makes with my lower speed delivery. To give you an idea she's about 14.5 to 15 on the monitors I come out at about 11 maybe 12.5 on a good day lol.

I recall some past conversation about surface changes and how many of the balls are but a minor surface change from another ball. For me I have done some experimenting with surface change but would rather try and get a ball I can use with the OOB finish and maintain that, I didn't keep a very good record of the changes so after a while I forgot what I had done to change a particular ball. In this case what I fear is that these balls will be stronger than what I need, I really didn't think I had above average speed, I think I'm in the 13 to 14 area, will check the display tomorrow when I bowl and see. I don't want to be ending up moving too far left. I think if I analyze my own approach the problem is I tend to wander a little more to the right instead of staying on my starting path.

[Amyers]

I recall some past conversation about surface changes and how many of the balls are but a minor surface change from another ball. For me I have done some experimenting with surface change but would rather try and get a ball I can use with the OOB finish and maintain that, I didn't keep a very good record of the changes so after a while I forgot what I had done to change a particular ball. In this case what I fear is that these balls will be stronger than what I need, I really didn't think I had above average speed, I think I'm in the 13 to 14 area, will check the display tomorrow when I bowl and see. I don't want to be ending up moving too far left. I think if I analyze my own approach the problem is I tend to wander a little more to the right instead of staying on my starting path.

Monitors are different so your 13-14 may not be the exact same as ours. Try to look at just not what the monitor says but to what the average seems to be between yours and other bowlers. Here in ether of the houses I bowl at 13-14 would be average to slightly below average especially among the top tier guys. You can still be speed dominate and if your lower revs those balls would be useable for you on a medium or heavy medium house shot but I wouldn't be surprised if you needed to switch ball around the middle to end of the second game.

The core in the Warriors is very asymmetrical (.20) and the cover on the Grudge is extremely strong. I think both of these balls are really good and have a place in a multiple ball bag but I wouldn't consider either as my bench mark ball that I was going to use all the time but my game is very different from yours. When my wife who's game is probably closer to yours than mine really started bowling seriously she did use the original Nirvana as her benchmark as her game and release have improved through working with her coach she finds a lot more use from her Mastermind Braniac than she does the Nirvana but the Nirvana still gets a lot of use. Hope some of this has helped.

[Tony]

Monitors are different so your 13-14 may not be the exact same as ours. Try to look at just not what the monitor says but to what the average seems to be between yours and other bowlers. Here in ether of the houses I bowl at 13-14 would be average to slightly below average especially among the top tier guys. You can still be speed dominate and if your lower revs those balls would be useable for you on a medium or heavy medium house shot but I wouldn't be surprised if you needed to switch ball around the middle to end of the second game.

The core in the Warriors is very asymmetrical (.20) and the cover on the Grudge is extremely strong. I think both of these balls are really good and have a place in a multiple ball bag but I wouldn't consider either as my bench mark ball that I was going to use all the time but my game is very different from yours. When my wife who's game is probably closer to yours than mine really started bowling seriously she did use the original Nirvana as her benchmark as her game and release have improved through working with her coach she finds a lot more use from her Mastermind Braniac than she does the Nirvana but the Nirvana still gets a lot of use. Hope some of this has helped.

I took a closer look at the speed indications on 2 different pairs and found I was a bit off in recalling my speeds. I was running in the high 14's up to the mid 16's on some shots, I think this makes a little more sense why he said above avg speed, maybe just slightly above average. According to the guy who sets up cleans and repairs the oiler he is setup for a heavy oil house shot, that's pretty much all he will say ....

[Tony]

Talked to the PSO today, he bowled wed on the lanes next to me and was watching my release, speed and ball selection, I was using my Hy Road and he suggested that he still thought the best fit would be the Warrior Elite, by a slight margin over the Grudge Hybrid, so I had him put one on the order.
I decided for once I will try the ball the guy who's an expert on balls selects instead of picking my own ball or picking one that's similar,( in my opinion) to what he suggests.
Thinking back the last time I had a Ebonite ball was the Grey Wolf, that was quite some time ago.

[Amyers]

The warrior seems to be a good ball. It's hard to beat good qualified first hand advise from a PSO. I'm sure it will be a good ball for you

[Tony]

The warrior seems to be a good ball. It's hard to beat good qualified first hand advise from a PSO. I'm sure it will be a good ball for you

I'm hopeful, in talking with him and some other guys with a lot of bowling ball knowledge I've come to idea that the brand of ball I've been using the most in recent years Storm/ Rotogrip actually seems to make primarily balls that have more of a skid flip, or hard turning motion. It seemed great when I first got one and found throwing more of a hook to help with scoring and look better. One of the few other balls I tried, the Brunswick Gold Rhino that really turned hard when it hit the dry wasn't the ticket to being a good ball for me or the teammate I traded it to until I used your suggestion and changed the finish, now the ball is back to a gradual consistent hook condition and he loves the ball. I recently traded the Hypercell Skid to another teammate and he is going to change the drilling and surface with the help of the PSO to try playing a more inside line. The warrior is a totally different type of ball from what I have been throwing and I am thinking it should give me a little more margin for error without leaving as many difficult or impossible spare shots.