Question about Lane Play

[AlexNC]

In the league I am playing in on Weds nights, I have noticed a few of the higher scoring players, including the house PSO and staff playing an extreme outside line, essentially riding the 1-2 board and not getting more inside than 5.

This league ended up being a merger of the league I was in and another league with a mostly older clientele. I would guess that 50% are throwing plastic balls mostly straight up the middle, depending on accuracy. 35% people using older reactive balls with some interesting techniques and 15% more serious bowlers. Its a pretty odd mix, but I joined to bowl with some family members.

I'm just trying to figure out what the advantage of taking such an approach would be as it seams counterintuitive to anything I read about playing a THS. I should just ask the PSO, but anytime of asked questions before I've been made to feel like an *** (I don't use this shop anymore.)

[NewToBowling]

My initial thought is to stay away from the straight plastic ball users.

[JaxBowlingGuy]

Kind of depends on the shot really. Even different house shots will play different. I see this like a lot in tournaments (mainly higher volume sport shot) where they will play the 1-2 with heavy sanded balls (360range). Basically if you can consistently play the 1, it takes the shot out of play since the 1 is never oiled.

[ep1977]

In the league I am playing in on Weds nights, I have noticed a few of the higher scoring players, including the house PSO and staff playing an extreme outside line, essentially riding the 1-2 board and not getting more inside than 5.

This league ended up being a merger of the league I was in and another league with a mostly older clientele. I would guess that 50% are throwing plastic balls mostly straight up the middle, depending on accuracy. 35% people using older reactive balls with some interesting techniques and 15% more serious bowlers. Its a pretty odd mix, but I joined to bowl with some family members.

I'm just trying to figure out what the advantage of taking such an approach would be as it seams counterintuitive to anything I read about playing a THS. I should just ask the PSO, but anytime of asked questions before I've been made to feel like an *** (I don't use this shop anymore.)

If there are a few of them playing the gutter on a THS by mid first game they should be going through the head pin or even crossing over.

[1VegasBowler]

I believe both of the above cases.

The strongest bowlers are going to take what is going to be out of bounds for most everybody else, whether it's through the middle where the most oil is or outside where there's no oil. It all depends on who is using what and where they're playing.

[Amyers]

If there are a few of them playing the gutter on a THS by mid first game they should be going through the head pin or even crossing over.

This kind of line is designed with the fact the ball will somewhat burn up to keep it from over hooking the pocket but to play it you have to have the ball speed and the correct equipment. As Stormbowler commented playing the 1 removes the oil pattern from play as there is no oil there from the beginning.

My guess is they have taken this line to compensate for the plastic ball players causing carry down has effected their normal shot. If you want to be effective playing the 1 board you have to be able to modify your game to play in that area. You also have to me able to generate the ball speed needed to get the ball to hold and still carry which isn't easy.

[AlexNC]

This kind of line is designed with the fact the ball will somewhat burn up to keep it from over hooking the pocket but to play it you have to have the ball speed and the correct equipment. As Stormbowler commented playing the 1 removes the oil pattern from play as there is no oil there from the beginning.

My guess is they have taken this line to compensate for the plastic ball players causing carry down has effected their normal shot. If you want to be effective playing the 1 board you have to be able to modify your game to play in that area. You also have to me able to generate the ball speed needed to get the ball to hold and still carry which isn't easy.

It is a challenge with my ball speed to play that line, my ball always picks up early even on my weakest stuff. And yes, they have higher ball speed than me (as well as more advanced games. ) I suppose working this shot for them is also good prep for the tourneys they bowl on weekends.

The challenge for me in this league seems to be transition. I bowl well in game one. And then fade through 2-3 struggling with over/under. Some self inflicted damage last night though. I bowled well with a solid with some surface. In game 2 i started leaving some 10s and watching my ball exit the pin deck to the left. I moved left and started hitting light. So I switched balls to a weaker polished solid and still hit light. Moved back to right and started coming through the nose. Kinda struggled with this over under the rest of the night and feel like I should have just stuck with the solid with surface and made my spares as I essentially gave up the pocket hunting for something to work.

[Mike White]

If there are a few of them playing the gutter on a THS by mid first game they should be going through the head pin or even crossing over.

Why would you think this?

On a THS there isn't any oil out by the gutter to break down.

Whatever angle, and equipment that worked at the beginning of the night should still work at the end of the night.

[Amyers]

It is a challenge with my ball speed to play that line, my ball always picks up early even on my weakest stuff. And yes, they have higher ball speed than me (as well as more advanced games. ) I suppose working this shot for them is also good prep for the tourneys they bowl on weekends.

The challenge for me in this league seems to be transition. I bowl well in game one. And then fade through 2-3 struggling with over/under. Some self inflicted damage last night though. I bowled well with a solid with some surface. In game 2 i started leaving some 10s and watching my ball exit the pin deck to the left. I moved left and started hitting light. So I switched balls to a weaker polished solid and still hit light. Moved back to right and started coming through the nose. Kinda struggled with this over under the rest of the night and feel like I should have just stuck with the solid with surface and made my spares as I essentially gave up the pocket hunting for something to work.

Ball up not down when moving father inside. Balls that are longer are ok for this balls that are weaker don't work. Higher RG stronger cover at least for me.

[LOUVIT]

Interesting reading but I have nothing to add at this point...lol

[baker]

I might have missed it, but what type of balls are they using to play this line?

[RobLV1]

Ball up not down when moving father inside. Balls that are longer are ok for this balls that are weaker don't work. Higher RG stronger cover at least for me.

Great observation! Most bowlers believe that "longer" and "weaker" are synonymous, but they are distinctly different. When length comes from the core and strength comes from the cover, there is a whole different look than with a ball that is long from the core but less reactive in the cover.

[billf]

Outside of 5 won't have any oil on the vast majority of THS. If you have the game and the stones to play it, it is prime real estate.
For lower speed bowlers, use higher drill angles and long pin to PAP distances to play out there. The drill angle determines when the ball enters a roll while the pin to PAP distance controls flare potential. Cheap balls like a Cyclone, Freestyle, etc. are worth their weight in gold that far outside. If you're extremely rev dominant urethane.

As for your over/under.......
Start with your earliest rolling ball. As the pattern breaks down and moving inside stops carrying (preferably just before this) switch to a ball that reads later and has a more angular back end reaction.

[RobLV1]

As for your over/under.......
Start with your earliest rolling ball. As the pattern breaks down and moving inside stops carrying (preferably just before this) switch to a ball that reads later and has a more angular back end reaction.

This is definitely how most bowlers with decent rev rates play the lanes. Bowlers with lower rev rates can, and often do, approach the lanes with the opposite approach which is what Ameyers is referring to. I often use this approach, starting with a urethane ball to control the over/under on the fresh THS, and switch to a more aggressive reactive ball as I have to move in. More than one way to skin a cat...

[1VegasBowler]

Most generally, I start with my most aggressive (Ultimate Nirvana) on a THS. It allows me to play 15-10 for quite a while even when others have a similar break point.

However, towards the middle of the 3rd game, I go with my BTU and play the same line. I do this because it is well burned up, and the BTU is great on these conditions.

This coming weekend I'm going to be bowling on the USBC White #3 and I plan on using this same approach during the 10 min of practice, while keeping my Vintage Danger Zone & Vandal close by. My entire arsenal will be there just in case, but with little wiggle room of 6 games in 2 days I have to figure it out fast or it will be all for naught.

[AlexNC]

Thanks for the input gentlemen. FWIW I had started with an Arson High Flair Solid and moved to a Hammer Viral Solid. The Viral Solid is higher RG, but perhaps too weak a cover. I don't really have a High RG ball with a strong cover in my arsenal. I also have a Storm IQ Tour and Ride, so I guess what I end up with is 2 lower RG balls with stronger covers and 2 high RG balls with weaker covers, and a lot less flare in the case of the Ride. I can see perhaps there are some holes.

[fortheloveofbowling]

This is definitely how most bowlers with decent rev rates play the lanes. Bowlers with lower rev rates can, and often do, approach the lanes with the opposite approach which is what Ameyers is referring to. I often use this approach, starting with a urethane ball to control the over/under on the fresh THS, and switch to a more aggressive reactive ball as I have to move in. More than one way to skin a cat...

If i did that i would be running over the cat and backing back over it. Not sure why i would want to use urethane and create hang down lane and then move left and see that same spot as out of bounds instead of miss room right.

[RobLV1]

If i did that i would be running over the cat and backing back over it. Not sure why i would want to use urethane and create hang down lane and then move left and see that same spot as out of bounds instead of miss room right.

Actually, I'm using the Brunswick BTU (better than urethane). It gives a urethane type smooth reaction, but still absorbs oil like a reactive. There is no carry down created.

[Amyers]

As for your over/under.......
Start with your earliest rolling ball. As the pattern breaks down and moving inside stops carrying (preferably just before this) switch to a ball that reads later and has a more angular back end reaction.

Unfortunately for me I can do this but that works for about 2 balls under the best of circumstances then I have to move left anyway. When I make that move left the weaker ball just won't carry for me. It becomes ten pin city. So typically I ball up to a ball that is more angular/ longer but also has a stronger cover. This typically gives me the added turn that I need carry the back row pins from the deeper angles. Basically what I'm getting at is instead of making a 2-1 left and staying with the existing ball or balling down and trying to keep the same line ball up and move 4-2. I don't know but it works for me on most patterns here.

[1VegasBowler]

Actually, I'm using the Brunswick BTU (better than urethane). It gives a urethane type smooth reaction, but still absorbs oil like a reactive. There is no carry down created.

It also helps. that. it reads much later than urethane. Urethane starts reacting at around 25ft. The BTU reads at the same break point as a resin, but has a much slower response to friction.

[RobLV1]

It also helps. that. it reads much later than urethane. Urethane starts reacting at around 25ft. The BTU reads at the same break point as a resin, but has a much slower response to friction.

It reads later than urethane because, unlike most urethane balls, it has a very high rg. Most urethane balls are lower rg to compensate for the lack of friction from the cover material.

[1VegasBowler]

It reads later than urethane because, unlike most urethane balls, it has a very high rg. Most urethane balls are lower rg to compensate for the lack of friction from the cover material.

Which explains the higher energy on the back end.

[billf]

Unfortunately for me I can do this but that works for about 2 balls under the best of circumstances then I have to move left anyway. When I make that move left the weaker ball just won't carry for me. It becomes ten pin city. So typically I ball up to a ball that is more angular/ longer but also has a stronger cover. This typically gives me the added turn that I need carry the back row pins from the deeper angles. Basically what I'm getting at is instead of making a 2-1 left and staying with the existing ball or balling down and trying to keep the same line ball up and move 4-2. I don't know but it works for me on most patterns here.


Don't misunderstand. I start with my Freestyle. once I get so far left it leaves weak 10s I ball UP AND move five left as my Cobra is a beast comparatively. Now last night I switched earlier than normal from the Freestyle to my Rocket with a 2 and 1 move left before going to the Cobra.
Diff, RG blah, blah, blah...they only tell part of the story. Companies give cover type and their own made up name but they don't tell you the COF of the cover, intended length, etc. in a standard, across the industry manner as with the diff and RG. Just going off of RG numbers ALL Storm balls SHOULD hook before any Brunswick balls yet Storm is known for creating the "hockey stick" shape in all their balls while Brunswick's rep is more of the controlled arc. So screw the numbers, know your equipment, change the surface as needed and make logical changes off what the balls and lanes tell you.

[Amyers]

Don't misunderstand. I start with my Freestyle. once I get so far left it leaves weak 10s I ball UP AND move five left as my Cobra is a beast comparatively. Now last night I switched earlier than normal from the Freestyle to my Rocket with a 2 and 1 move left before going to the Cobra.
Diff, RG blah, blah, blah...they only tell part of the story. Companies give cover type and their own made up name but they don't tell you the COF of the cover, intended length, etc. in a standard, across the industry manner as with the diff and RG. Just going off of RG numbers ALL Storm balls SHOULD hook before any Brunswick balls yet Storm is known for creating the "hockey stick" shape in all their balls while Brunswick's rep is more of the controlled arc. So screw the numbers, know your equipment, change the surface as needed and make logical changes off what the balls and lanes tell you.

I agree knowing what your throwing is the most important factor. That's why you've got to spend a lot of time watching bowling or have a PSO you really trust not to just sell you the hot new thing or even better both. You can't even really go by surface anymore as half the balls coming out you can look at and tell that what they say is on it isn't.

The real point to the conversation was a lot of bowlers I see even ones that should know better start with their most aggressive ball then when the line goes they try to ball down and stay in the same spot. This can work especially if your using a ball that plays longer and you've got higher speed but for lower speed bowlers the move is often move left and ball up. For me anyways if the lines gone I could play plastic on it and still come in high.

[1VegasBowler]

I agree knowing what your throwing is the most important factor. That's why you've got to spend a lot of time watching bowling or have a PSO you really trust not to just sell you the hot new thing or even better both. You can't even really go by surface anymore as half the balls coming out you can look at and tell that what they say is on it isn't.

The real point to the conversation was a lot of bowlers I see even ones that should know better start with their most aggressive ball then when the line goes they try to ball down and stay in the same spot. This can work especially if your using a ball that plays longer and you've got higher speed but for lower speed bowlers the move is often move left and ball up. For me anyways if the lines gone I could play plastic on it and still come in high.

I guess this is where I become the exception to the rule. lol

But it all depends on how the THS is playing. For instance, in one house I start with my most aggressive and play 15-10. Once it has broken down, I go to my BTU and play the same line and have the same results.

In another house, the THS plays much differently and I can pretty much play my VDZ the entire night, and that is right around the 10 board. Normally I can go 12-10 on the breakdown, and on the rare occasion I'll go 15-10.

But, this is an exception to the normal rule. I am the low speed & low rev player. It's all about adjustments for me because the stronger balls, like the Ultimate Nirvana, can be far too strong for some conditions and I figure that out during the 10 min of practice.

While this is what works for me, and as you said, it may not work for others. That's why the practice session is so very important for me. And while I do not take every ball with me on league night, I can make changes as to what is in my bag for the next week.

[Amyers]

I guess this is where I become the exception to the rule. lol

But it all depends on how the THS is playing. For instance, in one house I start with my most aggressive and play 15-10. Once it has broken down, I go to my BTU and play the same line and have the same results.

In another house, the THS plays much differently and I can pretty much play my VDZ the entire night, and that is right around the 10 board. Normally I can go 12-10 on the breakdown, and on the rare occasion I'll go 15-10.

But, this is an exception to the normal rule. I am the low speed & low rev player. It's all about adjustments for me because the stronger balls, like the Ultimate Nirvana, can be far too strong for some conditions and I figure that out during the 10 min of practice.

While this is what works for me, and as you said, it may not work for others. That's why the practice session is so very important for me. And while I do not take every ball with me on league night, I can make changes as to what is in my bag for the next week.

Could be some differences in houses a lot of the centers I bowl in have wood still and even the houses here with synthetics are older their are no centers here built after 1970 or so. Even the ones with synthetics started off with wood. I'm not sure what my rev rate is I kind of guess it's probably more to the medium end of the spectrum especially considering my ball speed. I don't believe I could throw any of the Nirvana's with out standing on top the ball return lol. I have learned that all patterns are different and break down in different ways.

The only ball I've had success balling down to in the time I've been back to bowling is maybe the Rhino. I haven't tried it that much yet but I'm seeing some indications that might be possible. I know my lines break down faster than most of the other bowlers I bowl with especially if I'm playing right of 13. I often bowl leadoff on my teams even though I may be the better bowler for the simple fact that my ball will experience the transition 2-3 shots before a lot of my teammates will.

[1VegasBowler]

Could be some differences in houses a lot of the centers I bowl in have wood still and even the houses here with synthetics are older their are no centers here built after 1970 or so. Even the ones with synthetics started off with wood. I'm not sure what my rev rate is I kind of guess it's probably more to the medium end of the spectrum especially considering my ball speed. I don't believe I could throw any of the Nirvana's with out standing on top the ball return lol. I have learned that all patterns are different and break down in different ways.

The only ball I've had success balling down to in the time I've been back to bowling is maybe the Rhino. I haven't tried it that much yet but I'm seeing some indications that might be possible. I know my lines break down faster than most of the other bowlers I bowl with especially if I'm playing right of 13. I often bowl leadoff on my teams even though I may be the better bowler for the simple fact that my ball will experience the transition 2-3 shots before a lot of my teammates will.

Every place I have bowled here is synthetic, and I have no idea how old they are either. One place still has wood approaches, but that's the extent of the wood.

The lengths of the THS here go anywhere from 39-42ft, and I am certain they all use different types of oils. This is where our arsenals come in to play.

Some want to change their surfaces for each house. I prefer using a different ball, because sooner or later that ball surface is going to get to the point where there is no real surface, and now you have to think about buying another ball to replace it.

I've purchased 6 balls since August of 2015. They all have a different surface (OOB) and most of them have different drilling angles, and they certainly have their proper place for the different conditions, including sport patterns.

Then again, we all have our bad days. You can have a different ball for each frame and still not be able to hit the ocean with an aircraft carrier! lol

[Amyers]

Then again, we all have our bad days. You can have a different ball for each frame and still not be able to hit the ocean with an aircraft carrier! lol

I was looking for a house for my daughter to practice with synthetic approaches before Jr. Gold and had to drive three hours to get to a house that had them.

I have days I might as well be throwing marbles instead of bowling balls.

[billf]

The majority of league bowlers I've seen can be grouped into three categories.
1. Low to medium axis tilt players, usually strokers, who won't move inside of 15. Best game is usually the last
2. High axis tilt players who can't play outside of 25. First game and a half they struggle as they start too deep.
3. Players who understand ball motion and can use multiple hand positions. They start outside and migrate in as the oil depletes. Most consistent of the bunch. Don't always have the highest averages but usually don't have the extreme swings in the scores.

[mc_runner]

And here's where I've been having some challenges recently. I agree with the 3 groups above for the most part (you can also throw in plastic ball throwers who spray it all over the lane I suppose) but in competitive league I start in a spot somewhere between groups 1-2 on the lanes. Adjust, blah blah. By game 3, I'm in a position where anything more inside is chewed up by the inside players, but the outside line is burnt up as well. That's the over-under situation that I'm not good enough to solve yet, sometimes I can but a lot of the time it'll take a few frames of moving around and by then the game is shot.

[Amyers]

And here's where I've been having some challenges recently. I agree with the 3 groups above for the most part (you can also throw in plastic ball throwers who spray it all over the lane I suppose) but in competitive league I start in a spot somewhere between groups 1-2 on the lanes. Adjust, blah blah. By game 3, I'm in a position where anything more inside is chewed up by the inside players, but the outside line is burnt up as well. That's the over-under situation that I'm not good enough to solve yet, sometimes I can but a lot of the time it'll take a few frames of moving around and by then the game is shot.

Your not the only one that suffers from that. I guess due to axis tilt or whatever I can't play outside of ten unless it's a sports pattern or something and even when I do I'm very uncomfortable as I don't get to play there often. But from 10-17 I'm great and in most mixed leagues I'm the deepest guy so I don't have to worry about anybody burning a line inside of me but when I'm bowling on travel league or the higher level men's leagues that happens sometimes and when I need to make that jump from playing 15 to playing 20 things go bad quick

[billf]

And here's where I've been having some challenges recently. I agree with the 3 groups above for the most part (you can also throw in plastic ball throwers who spray it all over the lane I suppose) but in competitive league I start in a spot somewhere between groups 1-2 on the lanes. Adjust, blah blah. By game 3, I'm in a position where anything more inside is chewed up by the inside players, but the outside line is burnt up as well. That's the over-under situation that I'm not good enough to solve yet, sometimes I can but a lot of the time it'll take a few frames of moving around and by then the game is shot.


Take a ball with a decently strong core, drill to read early with a strong pin to PAP distance then adjust the cover to a higher grit plus maybe polish. The layout will smooth out the midlane read, cover help to clear the heads and retain back end where the strong core can take over to carry corner pins.

[mc_runner]

Take a ball with a decently strong core, drill to read early with a strong pin to PAP distance then adjust the cover to a higher grit plus maybe polish. The layout will smooth out the midlane read, cover help to clear the heads and retain back end where the strong core can take over to carry corner pins.

I'm going to try this out with my IQ nano, I'll play around with the surface and see if I can get some good read with it. For now, I've mainly been using my HyRoad in game 3 but I have to bring up the speed to a level where I'm not super comfortable.