when is it time to realize you are a has been...

[LOUVIT]

25-30 years ago I averaged 190, now no matter what I do or what I learn and try to change I average 150 on my first league since...Am I over thinking? I always released outside the ball, I was told not to. Now that I release the ball correctly I am all over the place. What would you do....Do it right and keep trying or do what's comfortable?:confused:

[1VegasBowler]

While it could be one small thing, it could also be a multitude of things, and since I have never seen you throw a ball, the best thing is to get a coach so that they can determine what's going on and get you to make the adjustments.

[ep1977]

25-30 years ago I averaged 190, now no matter what I do or what I learn and try to change I average 150 on my first league since...Am I over thinking? I always released outside the ball, I was told not to. Now that I release the ball correctly I am all over the place. What would you do....Do it right and keep trying or do what's comfortable?:confused:

Do whats comfortable!! Look at all the bowlers with different styles and releases who are successful.

[billf]

Depends. Comfortable got you a 150 average. If you're alright with that then stay with comfortable.
If you want to get better than you need to leave your comfort zone.

Bob is your coach, what does he think?

[billf]

Oh and while I'm at it.....don't even mention your age and size. Those won't keep you from improving. They are obstacles for sure but not complete road blocks. Don't make excuses, don't accept excuses and you will see progress.

[Amyers]

I agree with bilf it's not a size or age thing. I bowl with guys that are bigger than me and yes I'm big and I bowl with guys that are older than me that can kick my ***.

Keep working with it and if your spraying the ball with the release it's probably not right either lol. Your most likely out of time which causes that. I've been back at it for three years now and I'm just now getting to be solidly in the 190s after a similar layoff.

[ep1977]

Depends. Comfortable got you a 150 average. If you're alright with that then stay with comfortable.
If you want to get better than you need to leave your comfort zone.

Bob is your coach, what does he think?

He didn't say comfortable got him to where he is now. He said he's went away from what is most comfortable because everyone said it was wrong.

[fordman1]

Lou I know that most don't take my posts to well. What I am thinking and what I am typing don't always sound the same.
Most people like me in person.
Now I have to disagree a little Size, Age and fitness do matter.
You are retired so older. Are you over weight? Have any health issues?
I think I read you are using a 16 lb. ball that isn't good.
If you have been out of bowling for a while you may notice everything about how to throw the ball has changed.
I wonder if getting advise from a local PSO or coach who can watch you isn't a better idea than asking strangers who have never seen you throw a ball.

[LOUVIT]

Lou I know that most don't take my posts to well. What I am thinking and what I am typing don't always sound the same.
Most people like me in person.
Now I have to disagree a little Size, Age and fitness do matter.
You are retired so older. Are you over weight? Have any health issues?
I think I read you are using a 16 lb. ball that isn't good.
If you have been out of bowling for a while you may notice everything about how to throw the ball has changed.
I wonder if getting advise from a local PSO or coach who can watch you isn't a better idea than asking strangers who have never seen you throw a ball.


First, yes since I started the correct release, behind the ball instead of outside it I seem to be bowling worse. The ball reacts better but I have issues with getting the ball where I want it. The new correct release is not comfortable yet. I feel like I'm forcing my hand to stay behind it when my body wants to be outside of it. Could be I need to get used to it more. i am an impatient person for sure.

Fordman.. yes I am overweight a good bit. When I first came back 6 months ago I took 2 face flops and that is always in the back of my mind even though I haven't had a close call since. I also have some back issues so if I do fall I cannot get up myself, between the embarrassment and fear of that it's an issue. Bob is my coach but I haven't had the opportunity to see him in a while.

My 2 new balls are 15 pounds not 16. I think my confidence and concentration is way down, I was at a high point during the summer practice league. I shot as high as 235 with a few 200's and down to maybe 160-170. Now I can't shoot anything decent. I went into the league with high expectations of averaging 175+ I was even nervous when after 2 weeks I averaged 140. I figured when I woke up I'd be accused of sandbagging...lol

that's all I can think of now

[Tony]

If the release, footwork, timing, or anything else is not comfortable to you then you can change it. There is no magic formula to being a good scoring bowler, I have in recent years studied the form. release and timing of many of the bowlers that average in the 200's.
If nothing else I have concluded that anything goes. I bowled yesterday against a guy who's a hard throwing lefty, I watched as he fell off his shot frame after frame, never posing in a perfect end position....he had a 267 that game. The guy I was bowling is 65 and wears a back brace, can barely bend over to get the ball off the rack, the ball was a 15 or 20 year old Fury pearl, he shot a 255 one game.
An 70 year old guy was on the lane next to me, he never bends over at all and releases the ball a good 3 feet short of the foul line and lofts it barely over the foul line, he shot a 289 265 234. Another guy on his team takes a hop step, looks like he is jumping over a small dog on the way to foul line, had a couple of 200 games. Another guy I bowl with has averaged 215 the last 10 or so years, bends over so far his back is parallel with the ground on his release, throws tons of strikes. Several guys I know including the PSO that averages 250 has late timing using a 4 step delivery doesn't move the ball forward until the second step, takes slow steps,plants the slide foot and pulls the ball through to release at the correct time.
The point being, do what you did before when you were a 190 bowler and see what you need to tweak from there instead of reinventing the whole game. Keep in mind that age, strength, condition, flexibility and everything else concerning your physical condition is a consideration, it doesn't mean you can't improve but it might hamper you a bit in some ways.

[fordman1]

Well Lou I guess we are bowling in the wrong place! Pack your bags we are going to have to move. I think he described us to a tee. Old, fat, stiff and over all unfit.:p

[LOUVIT]

If the release, footwork, timing, or anything else is not comfortable to you then you can change it. There is no magic formula to being a good scoring bowler, I have in recent years studied the form. release and timing of many of the bowlers that average in the 200's.
If nothing else I have concluded that anything goes. I bowled yesterday against a guy who's a hard throwing lefty, I watched as he fell off his shot frame after frame, never posing in a perfect end position....he had a 267 that game. The guy I was bowling is 65 and wears a back brace, can barely bend over to get the ball off the rack, the ball was a 15 or 20 year old Fury pearl, he shot a 255 one game.
An 70 year old guy was on the lane next to me, he never bends over at all and releases the ball a good 3 feet short of the foul line and lofts it barely over the foul line, he shot a 289 265 234. Another guy on his team takes a hop step, looks like he is jumping over a small dog on the way to foul line, had a couple of 200 games. Another guy I bowl with has averaged 215 the last 10 or so years, bends over so far his back is parallel with the ground on his release, throws tons of strikes. Several guys I know including the PSO that averages 250 has late timing using a 4 step delivery doesn't move the ball forward until the second step, takes slow steps,plants the slide foot and pulls the ball through to release at the correct time.
The point being, do what you did before when you were a 190 bowler and see what you need to tweak from there instead of reinventing the whole game. Keep in mind that age, strength, condition, flexibility and everything else concerning your physical condition is a consideration, it doesn't mean you can't improve but it might hamper you a bit in some ways.


this has got to be the best response I've ever gotten.... this game has changed so much in 25 years that I try to forget when I was good and feel like a beginner again. Again this post is real and funny at the same time. Yet all points may be true. I never was a "do it this way" bowler way back when yet I am trying to do the right thing now because the new game scares me and I feel I have to....In the old day's with rubber or plastic balls I just cranked and prayed it came back. It usually did. I need to stop trying to look good and try to bowl good!!!!!

[Tony]

Well Lou I guess we are bowling in the wrong place! Pack your bags we are going to have to move. I think he described us to a tee. Old, fat, stiff and over all unfit.:p

Those were just the guys I bowled with on Friday, we have all kinds of characters, how about the nearly 70 yo guy, will bet anyone on a shot, regularly wins anything he enters, has multiple 300 games with every ball in his bag and all after being shot in the bowling arm, or the coach, bowls with near perfect form, wearing street shoes, he can also lay the ball up from the back of the approach and leave 10 pins 8 of 10 times to set up shots for his student to practice. I bowled with a guy for over 20 years never averaged less than 200, 2 different houses, wood lanes, synthetic lanes, over all the years with one ball, an old blue hammer. Another guy tip-toed to the foul line like Fred Flintstone, used to throw at splits between his legs, over the course of a few years saw him pick up a 7 10 and a greek church, between the legs. Had another guy who got the feeling he was going to strike and he would stand up on the approach and start chanting buck buck buck then turn around and take buck bets from any of the people around the lane and go up and throw the ball, saw him collect or payout 10 to 20 bucks many times....

[fordman1]

Not that I would ever doubt what I read on the internet but can't see a greek church or seven 10 being that way. How would you generate that much ball speed? I hope he wore a jock and cup.

[bowl1820]

Not that I would ever doubt what I read on the internet but can't see a greek church or seven 10 being that way. How would you generate that much ball speed? I hope he wore a jock and cup.

You don't need a bunch speed.

I saw a old lady roll a ball down the lane at a 7-10 split years ago. The ball was barely rolling down the lane, it was headed for the left gutter and just clipped the 7 pin.The 7 fell over and rolled lazily across the deck and just knocked the 10 over just before the rack came down.

We had a young guy here that could easily toss the ball between his legs with plenty of speed.

[Tony]

Not that I would ever doubt what I read on the internet but can't see a greek church or seven 10 being that way. How would you generate that much ball speed? I hope he wore a jock and cup.

He had fairly good ball speed, we had a team years ago where 4 of the 5 of us would throw balls like that, I still bowl with one of the guys and we can both throw between the legs with a 10 -12 mph ball speed, and still do on occasion. (We both throw 14 to 16 mph normally) generally we got good enough that we usually pick up pins and sometimes convert a split. I'm over 50 and he's over 60, it's really not that hard.
The one guy who picked up those shots did slip one time and got a little too much lift on the ball, I'm sure he wished he had a cup on, other than that we have thrown 100's of shots with no injuries.

[Aslan]

this has got to be the best response I've ever gotten....

What? It lacked paragraphs. It is therefore disqualified as best anything. PARAGRAPHS!

1) Age and fitness are a factor. I watched my grandfather go from a good bowler 150s-160s way back when...to someone who could barely throw the ball. I bowl with guys like this all the time. They have no ball speed...yet...can still bowl okay. But thats very frustrating...and I can sympathize with them. They know how to throw the ball...good accuracy...but they get splits and go brooklyn. Knee problems are brutal to a bowler...and have ended most bowling careers. Even me, at just over 40...the knee bend isn't what it could have been 20-30 years ago. Shoulder problems...elbow problems...back problems...arthritis...one of these ailments will eventually hinder you. And then it becomes a very tough decision to give up something you love that you just can't do well enough to enjoy it anymore...or keep bowling, just for fun, and with the understanding that most nights you're just gonna be a 150 bowler? There is no right or wrong answer IMO.

2) I agree with Bowl1820. I was once a 160-170 average bowler. I could have stayed a 160-170 bowler forever...bowling the way that "felt right". I didn't want to slow down, or work on my release, or fix my footwork, or shoot straight at spares. But I knew that if I didn't get out of my comfort zone and get better...I would give up bowling within 3 years if I couldn't get my average up. It was harder than I thought...it's still hard...but now I average around 180. Regardless of your age and physical condition...you CAN get better...but you have to actually want it bad enough. Don't feel bad if you don't want to...it's actually quite rare among bowlers. Most that I've come across love bowling until the point they realize that to actually get better they are going to have to work at it...then they go play golf.

[fordman1]

It is an illegal shot if you throw between your legs. Unless it is done all the time. Same as shooting the 10 left handed.

[Mike White]

Don't feel bad if you don't want to...it's actually quite rare among bowlers. Most that I've come across love bowling until the point they realize that to actually get better they are going to have to work at it...then they go play golf.

Imagine how you'll feel about bowling if you did put in all that work to not only improve, but be one of the top bowlers in your area.

Then after taking some time off, you find they have changed the equipment, and conditions such that any Tom, Dick, and Harry can score at that level.

To get back to being one of the best, more work will be required to unlearn what was achieved by all that hard work previously completed.

Meanwhile the value of that achievement is greatly diminished.

After a little contemplation, it becomes clear, it's not worth the work, and yes, golf does sound more enjoyable.

The only logical thing to do when reaching that conclusion is to give away ones bowling equipment to some sucker who hasn't seen the light yet and still thinks they love the game of bowling.

At this point in time I own no bowling bags, no bowling shoes, no bowling balls.

The only thing I still have bowling related is my gold 300 ring.

Maybe I'll sell it for it's gold value, and buy a new set of golf clubs.

In mid September I shot my last game ever as a USBC bowler.

I ended with a clean 199.

[LOUVIT]

What? It lacked paragraphs. It is therefore disqualified as best anything. PARAGRAPHS!

1) Age and fitness are a factor. I watched my grandfather go from a good bowler 150s-160s way back when...to someone who could barely throw the ball. I bowl with guys like this all the time. They have no ball speed...yet...can still bowl okay. But thats very frustrating...and I can sympathize with them. They know how to throw the ball...good accuracy...but they get splits and go brooklyn. Knee problems are brutal to a bowler...and have ended most bowling careers. Even me, at just over 40...the knee bend isn't what it could have been 20-30 years ago. Shoulder problems...elbow problems...back problems...arthritis...one of these ailments will eventually hinder you. And then it becomes a very tough decision to give up something you love that you just can't do well enough to enjoy it anymore...or keep bowling, just for fun, and with the understanding that most nights you're just gonna be a 150 bowler? There is no right or wrong answer IMO.

2) I agree with Bowl1820. I was once a 160-170 average bowler. I could have stayed a 160-170 bowler forever...bowling the way that "felt right". I didn't want to slow down, or work on my release, or fix my footwork, or shoot straight at spares. But I knew that if I didn't get out of my comfort zone and get better...I would give up bowling within 3 years if I couldn't get my average up. It was harder than I thought...it's still hard...but now I average around 180. Regardless of your age and physical condition...you CAN get better...but you have to actually want it bad enough. Don't feel bad if you don't want to...it's actually quite rare among bowlers. Most that I've come across love bowling until the point they realize that to actually get better they are going to have to work at it...then they go play golf.

First off great paragraphs!!!! I've been out of school 40+years so that isn't an issue for me...lol

As I think I stated already i came back to the sport with high expectations. As was stated everyone seems to throw a great ball and carries pins. I figured hey if newbies can do it and since I averaged 190 when the game was hard this should be a piece of cake. Funny that with a 10+ year old NVS that I couldn't get to hook I was shooting good games. Bought a new ball won another from here and guess I'm trying too hard and watching too many videos on releases and stuff. This week practice or league I'm am going to forget most of what I've learned in the past 6 months and let the ball do the work. Stay tuned.


I also know some 70 year old guy;s averaging over 200, but they didn't stop bowling for 25 years

[LOUVIT]

First off great paragraphs!!!! I've been out of school 40+years so that isn't an issue for me...lol

As I think I stated already i came back to the sport with high expectations. As was stated everyone seems to throw a great ball and carries pins. I figured hey if newbies can do it and since I averaged 190 when the game was hard this should be a piece of cake. Funny that with a 10+ year old NVS that I couldn't get to hook I was shooting good games. Bought a new ball won another from here and guess I'm trying too hard and watching too many videos on releases and stuff. This week practice or league I'm am going to forget most of what I've learned in the past 6 months and let the ball do the work. Stay tuned.


I also know some 70 year old guy;s averaging over 200, but they didn't stop bowling for 25 years


Ok I'm quoting myself...When I said stay tuned it certainly wasn't for this week, shot horrible and nothing to blame but me.....lol, Bob showed up to watch me and after a short talk with him I got a bit better because it's so hard to realize what you are doing wrong until some one tells you. I intend a lot of practice this week since my mistakes are fresh in my mind. I have written them down and will keep them in my pocket and read them before each shot. My biggest issue is that I actually aim at nothing...I look down at the floor on my release. If I look up at arrows or hash marks my equilibrium is totally off and cannot walk/run the approach. weird ha?

[Mike White]

Ok I'm quoting myself...When I said stay tuned it certainly wasn't for this week, shot horrible and nothing to blame but me.....lol, Bob showed up to watch me and after a short talk with him I got a bit better because it's so hard to realize what you are doing wrong until some one tells you. I intend a lot of practice this week since my mistakes are fresh in my mind. I have written them down and will keep them in my pocket and read them before each shot. My biggest issue is that I actually aim at nothing...I look down at the floor on my release. If I look up at arrows or hash marks my equilibrium is totally off and cannot walk/run the approach. weird ha?

Back when you posted a video (mid Sept) I commented that you appeared to have a balance issue.

http://www.bowlingboards.com/threads/20010-Ok-besides-not-bending-and-form-what-s-wrong?p=148512&viewfull=1#post148512

Sounds like you still have the problem.

[LOUVIT]

Back when you posted a video (mid Sept) I commented that you appeared to have a balance issue.

http://www.bowlingboards.com/threads/20010-Ok-besides-not-bending-and-form-what-s-wrong?p=148512&viewfull=1#post148512

Sounds like you still have the problem.

For all I know it's a medical issue, When I look up on my approach it's like I feel I don't know where I am. Yet I know where the spot is in my mind. So hard to explain....For some reason not looking at a spot and just trying to hit a spot makes me pull the ball. Today I started not bending so much on release and I was out on the right side of the lane. I've been to the Dr. (not for that) but they checked my ears and other normal stuff and found nothing. My right eye is very, very bad. Not sure if that's it. Matter of fact my dad was a golden gloves fighter and when I started boxing many many years ago the Dr. said if I got my left eye messed up I would have been almost blind. So much for boxing...lol.

[fordman1]

How do you know when you are a has been:

When the iron in your blood turns to the lead in your a$$!

When your get up and go turns to your got up gone.....

[got_a_300]

How do you know when you are a has been:

When the iron in your blood turns to the lead in your a$$!

When your get up and go turns to your got up gone.....

LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! that is a great answer love it.

[LOUVIT]

How do you know when you are a has been:

When the iron in your blood turns to the lead in your a$$!

When your get up and go turns to your got up gone.....


lol, for sure a good answer.....

[Mike White]

How do you know when you are a has been:

When the iron in your blood turns to the lead in your a$$!

When your get up and go turns to your got up gone.....

About a billion years ago when going to the neighborhood video arcade was the thing, I used to set the top 2 or 3 high scores on the games, and used the initials WIZ.

After a while, I could barely get into the top 5, I switched to the initials WUZ.

[Tony]

It is an illegal shot if you throw between your legs. Unless it is done all the time. Same as shooting the 10 left handed.

What would make it illegal ?

[Amyers]

USBC rules if you start with a two handed release than you have to use that style throughout the game. This is not the same as the more well known two handed style where the release is single handed

[fordman1]

Ask the USBC that's what they said about 10n years when we had a guy throw his 12th shot that way on a bet. He had a lot of 300's already and had had quite a few beers. Something about not trying his best. Like bagging.

[bowl1820]

What would make it illegal ?

Throwing a shot between your legs in of itself isn't illegal, it's the change or deviation from your normal delivery that is illegal.

Example all night you use the standard one hand approach and then decide to shoot a spare by throwing a ball between your legs at it.

USBC FAQ's
118b/2 A bowler decides to throw at a spare by delivering their bowling ball between their
legs. Would this be considered a change in delivery and a violation of Rule 118b?
The bowler has changed or deviated from their normal delivery which is a violation of Rule
118b. This rule provides a penalty of forfeiture of the individual’s/team’s game in which this
action occurred.

[fortheloveofbowling]

Throwing a shot between your legs in of itself isn't illegal, it's the change or deviation from your normal delivery that is illegal.

Example all night you use the standard one hand approach and then decide to shoot a spare by throwing a ball between your legs at it.

USBC FAQ's
118b/2 A bowler decides to throw at a spare by delivering their bowling ball between their
legs. Would this be considered a change in delivery and a violation of Rule 118b?
The bowler has changed or deviated from their normal delivery which is a violation of Rule
118b. This rule provides a penalty of forfeiture of the individual’s/team’s game in which this
action occurred.

Some nights when i have a unintentional wide variety of releases going i could be in violation of that rule alot.:)

[Tony]

Throwing a shot between your legs in of itself isn't illegal, it's the change or deviation from your normal delivery that is illegal.

Example all night you use the standard one hand approach and then decide to shoot a spare by throwing a ball between your legs at it.

USBC FAQ's
118b/2 A bowler decides to throw at a spare by delivering their bowling ball between their
legs. Would this be considered a change in delivery and a violation of Rule 118b?
The bowler has changed or deviated from their normal delivery which is a violation of Rule
118b. This rule provides a penalty of forfeiture of the individual’s/team’s game in which this
action occurred.

Would the rule be talking about a between the legs 2 handed granny throw type shot ? The shot I was talking about uses a standard approach and backswing just looping behind your back and forward release through the legs.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oj6jIFofptM

This is the shot
If this is Illegal then wouldn't every "2handed" bowler that releases with one hand and throws at spares with a conventional throw would also be illegal ?

FYI: Between me and the other 3 guys who did it we undoubtedly have done it 100's or 1000's of times going back over 20 years and have never had anyone say anything about it or protest it, and yes we have (not often) thrown our strike ball like this, and gotten strikes.

[1VegasBowler]

Would the rule be talking about a between the legs 2 handed granny throw type shot ? The shot I was talking about uses a standard approach and backswing just looping behind your back and forward release through the legs.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oj6jIFofptM

This is the shot
If this is Illegal then wouldn't every "2handed" bowler that releases with one hand and throws at spares with a conventional throw would also be illegal ?

FYI: Between me and the other 3 guys who did it we undoubtedly have done it 100's or 1000's of times going back over 20 years and have never had anyone say anything about it or protest it, and yes we have (not often) thrown our strike ball like this, and gotten strikes.

No, because they are not throwing the ball with 2 hands. They are actually releasing the ball with one hand because the front hand is coming off of the ball just before the release.

Where it gets touchy for the 2 handers is when they have a hole drilled where the thumb would be and that counts as a balance hole and if they can't demonstrate the use of that hole, and that opens up another can of worms because these extra holes count against them when it comes to ball count.

[bowl1820]

Would the rule be talking about a between the legs 2 handed granny throw type shot ? The shot I was talking about uses a standard approach and backswing just looping behind your back and forward release through the legs.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oj6jIFofptM

This is the shot

AFAIK if your normally delivering your ball from your side, if you then at some point deliver it between your legs (either one handed or two) it would be illegal. Because you changed or deviated from your normal delivery, which was from your side originally.


If this is Illegal then wouldn't every "2handed" bowler that releases with one hand and throws at spares with a conventional throw would also be illegal ?

Here's how the Commonly Asked Questions for Rule 118b addresses that:

118b/3 A bowler is using the two-handed approach. The bowler’s dominant hand is the right hand. Can the bowler use the right hand for spares?
Yes, since both deliveries are with the same dominate hand, the bowler did not change delivery and, therefore, is not in violation of any USBC rules.


FYI: Between me and the other 3 guys who did it we undoubtedly have done it 100's or 1000's of times going back over 20 years and have never had anyone say anything about it or protest it, and yes we have (not often) thrown our strike ball like this, and gotten strikes.

I've seen it done also and nobody has protested it, but it was usually done when it didn't matter so nobody cared.

It's one of those things, nobody cares about until you do it at the wrong time and/or in front of the wrong person.

To me if you want to do trick shots, be safe wait till after scoring ends.

[Tony]

AFAIK if your normally delivering your ball from your side, if you then at some point deliver it between your legs (either one handed or two) it would be illegal. Because you changed or deviated from your normal delivery, which was from your side originally.



Here's how the Commonly Asked Questions for Rule 118b addresses that:

118b/3 A bowler is using the two-handed approach. The bowler’s dominant hand is the right hand. Can the bowler use the right hand for spares?
Yes, since both deliveries are with the same dominate hand, the bowler did not change delivery and, therefore, is not in violation of any USBC rules.



I've seen it done also and nobody has protested it, but it was usually done when it didn't matter so nobody cared.

It's one of those things, nobody cares about until you do it at the wrong time and/or in front of the wrong person.

To me if you want to do trick shots, be safe wait till after scoring ends.

I don't generally bowl in anything other than regular league play. Since I've seen it and done it so many times against so many bowlers without an issue I'll continue as long as I can still do it. I would deem it a frivolous rule because there is no advantage in doing it.
Heck they even wrote an exception so the 2 handed style players could deviate without penalty ......

[Aslan]

The only logical thing to do when reaching that conclusion is to give away ones bowling equipment to some sucker who hasn't seen the light yet and still thinks they love the game of bowling.

Hey!! That was me. :o

Mike, I "get it"...and you are not alone...many people have come back to bowling after an injury or long time away...only to find the sport on the verge of collapse...as it has been for 40 years. And between the two of us, we could probably come up with easily 100 reasons why bowling sucks now compared to 1964....or even 1984.

Some people can make that transition...some people can't. I'm more like you than you give me credit for...as I said many times...I'm only bowling until my lifetime average catches up with my current average. At that point, I will have nowhere to go but down...and I bowl for the sport and the challenge...not as something to do while getting drunk or as a way to meet new friends. And by the time that happens...my body will be unable to tolerate the sport...I can just tell. Iceman, Rob, and the other older guys...God love em...they may be struggling to bowl as they approach 70...but thats 30 years of bowling that I doubt I have left in the tank. I can't see my knee lasting that long...nor my elbow.


As I think I stated already i came back to the sport with high expectations.
Then thats good news...the problem isn't you can't bowl...the problem is you had unrealistic expectations.

Start setting better goals, acheiving those goals, then setting new ones. But, if you set those goals outlandishly too high...don't be too sad when you fail to acheive them. Everyone in business (except maybe Motiv) understands that the keys to success are having measurable and achievable goals.


I'm trying too hard...and let the ball do the work.
Hard to learn how to relax and let the ball do the work...still working on that myself.


My biggest issue is that I actually aim at nothing..
Thats not good. Hard to make a shot go where you want if you're not projecting it down the lane. I tried targeting the dots for a bit...to help stop my lofting problem...it negatively affected my game because where I look is where I release to. If I look too far away...I often will end up lofting it to that spot (like playing horseshoes). BUT...if I aim too close...TOO close...like the dots or foul line...I just drop the ball and have no follow-through.


Back when you posted a video (mid Sept) I commented that you appeared to have a balance issue.
It's 'possible' to aim at the foul line and be successful (Wes Malott does it)...but you have to have a perfect and consistent swing...because there's no way to slightly adjust for that in the follow-through...AND...you need to learn to follow-through...even after the ball has left your sight....all kinds of challenges targeting that soon...but if it's a medical issue...thats what ya got to work with.

In bowling, you have to get to a finishing position. In order to post that shot, in that finishing position...you need balance. When you're in position, balanced, and your form is solid...much of your power and the ultimate power of the shot comes from the leverage of that position. Being out of balance and falling off your shot...you 'can' still strike if your swing is good and in line and you hit your mark, etc...but usually "no".

Fix the balance (medication, surgery, etc...) and you'll be surprised how much your game will improve.

P.S. Contact Iceman...he knows a magical wizard/pharmacologist that has magical elixers that cure almost anything...sure he has one for balance problems and/or vertigo. :eek:

[bowl1820]

I don't generally bowl in anything other than regular league play. Since I've seen it and done it so many times against so many bowlers without an issue I'll continue as long as I can still do it.

Which is fine, You just have to remember that it could become a issue at some point.


I would deem it a frivolous rule because there is no advantage in doing it.

Depends on what you consider a advantage.

Someone watching might say "hey look" he's throwing the ball between his legs, he's trying to lower his average, he's sandbagging because he's not trying to bowl well. He doesn't do that on position night or when bowling the first place team etc.



Heck they even wrote an exception so the 2 handed style players could deviate without penalty ......

As for that, Well the USBC is the ruling body and that's their ruling.

[classygranny]

In bowling, you have to get to a finishing position. In order to post that shot, in that finishing position...you need balance. When you're in position, balanced, and your form is solid...much of your power and the ultimate power of the shot comes from the leverage of that position. Being out of balance and falling off your shot...you 'can' still strike if your swing is good and in line and you hit your mark, etc...but usually "no".

Fix the balance (medication, surgery, etc...) and you'll be surprised how much your game will improve.

P.S. Contact Iceman...he knows a magical wizard/pharmacologist that has magical elixers that cure almost anything...sure he has one for balance problems and/or vertigo. :eek:

There was a great video of a balance exercise - not sure if on this site or somewhere else on the internet. Basically, you start with putting one foot in front like a step and balance for 4-5 seconds, then the next foot, then next for about 4-5 steps. Then you add a little knee bend and do the same thing, the you add a little arm swing. Can't remember it all but I do some of it when I remember to. Hopefully, one of the gurus on here saw it and can locate and post for us. I wish I had saved it at the time.

[fordman1]

Come on Granny this is bowling not Ballet. Bowlers are big burly guys with big belly's. We drink beer and try to make America great again.

Sorry I apologize. It is just that I would hurt my self trying to do that stuff.

[LOUVIT]

Asian answered some of my issues in post #37.

I have lowered my expectations. I have stopped trying to make that strong release and am a bit smoother. Still having an issue with looking at a spot, I seem to look at the floor and just try to aim my arm to where I think the 6 pin is. That usually get's me out on the lane where I need to be. Problem I have to really think hard about all of this on the approach, oh yea and staying behind the ball as well on release. it's only been 6 months since my 25 year layoff and 2 months of that was using a 25 year old ball. Also I still do not have a spare ball so leaving a 10 pin is like leaving a bad split....open frame...lol

[classygranny]

Come on Granny this is bowling not Ballet. Bowlers are big burly guys with big belly's. We drink beer and try to make America great again.

Sorry I apologize. It is just that I would hurt my self trying to do that stuff.

Aww come on....footballs players do something similar :)

And if you would hurt yourself trying that stuff, maybe you are close to being a "has-been". But! if you drink enough beer you won't know it hurts.

[LOUVIT]

Aww come on....footballs players do something similar :)

And if you would hurt yourself trying that stuff, maybe you are close to being a "has-been". But! if you drink enough beer you won't know it hurts.


Football players retire at 40 tops...lol... Old fat bowlers come back at 60....and no beer....Vodka!

[Mike White]

Football players retire at 40 tops...lol... Old fat bowlers come back at 60....and no beer....Vodka!

Bowling (for the Old fat guys) is significantly different than Football.

In Football, the players get paid to play, and it's owners and management that decides how much to pay, and for how long.

In bowling, as long as the Old fat guy is able to pay for bowling, there is likely a team willing to accept him.

[1VegasBowler]

Bowling (for the Old fat guys) is significantly different than Football.

In Football, the players get paid to play, and it's owners and management that decides how much to pay, and for how long.

In bowling, as long as the Old fat guy is able to pay for bowling, there is likely a team willing to accept him.

This old (54), fat guy (248) isn't doing too awful bad. In my Monday league I'm averaging 198, and my Wednesday league I'm averaging 186.

[fordman1]

Lets just say I've been to the Mountain Top and now on my back down. I have quit drinking except for an occasional shot to celebrate something. I have never and never will drink vodka. Isn't that the stuff you spit out after brushing your teeth?

[Mike White]

This old (54), fat guy (248) isn't doing too awful bad. In my Monday league I'm averaging 198, and my Wednesday league I'm averaging 186.

I guess that's the difference. This old (55), fat guy (202) would consider it "awful" if I averaged 198, and 186.

[Mike White]

I have quit drinking except for an occasional shot to celebrate something.

And now you celebrate things like, it's Monday, or it's Tuesday. etc.

[1VegasBowler]

I guess that's the difference. This old (55), fat guy (202) would consider it "awful" if I averaged 198, and 186.

Considering my average in both leagues continues to go upwards is quite positive.

Getting better is always the goal, and realizing there are going to be days that aren't quite that good.

[LOUVIT]

I am 61 and bigger than 250 and do not drink a lot or at all when I bowl. I was just saying I'm not a beer guy....lol

[JaxBowlingGuy]

I guess that's the difference. This old (55), fat guy (202) would consider it "awful" if I averaged 198, and 186.

Wasn't your composite average around 187 last season?

[Mike White]

Wasn't your composite average around 187 last season?

On today's condition, 187 is awful when someone else does it, and it's awful when I do it.

In the seasons since I came back to bowling my composite averages were:

195 (injury with 3 of 9 weeks to go) in 11-12,

All I had purchased was a 15 lb plastic ball, I was at 210 for the first 6 weeks, then after the injury, I shot about 500 for each of the last 3 weeks.
It was just a league for "beginners" so falling apart at the end didn't make any financial difference. The pizza tasted the same for 1st place as it did for last place.

I thought the problem was from not bowling for 20+ years, and my body couldn't handle the sudden increase in exercise.

To reduce pain, I had to release the ball like I would while shooting at a 10 pin.
I figured the pain wouldn't last long, so I joined the next winter league.

188 ( I was wrong about how long the pain lasted ) in 12-13.

15 lb equipment, when released like a spare shot results in a lot of weak hits.

199 (I felt good to go by mid Jan 2014, and shot 300 in Feb 2014, another slight injury in march that healed fairly quickly) in 13-14

That injury made it clear to me I had to drop from 15 lb to 14.

207 in 14-15,

Started the year healthy, and finished it that way, but I took the summer off.

187 (another injury not bowling related) in 15-16.

If 15 lbs equipment would hit weak, you can imagine how weak 14 lbs would hit.

And now I've quit.

I guess my body at 55 can't do what it was able to do at age 30, and I find no entertainment in throwing what I consider to be a wimpy technique.

[fordman1]

I have had many health problems. None stopped me from bowling until I tore my ham string on sliding leg. 2 years later and still down 15 pins easy. 6'3" 275 lbs. and 70 years old. Still think I can get back to 200 this year.

[LOUVIT]

a little confidence build this week thanks to some tips from this site

My last 6 games, Monday practice…..
184, 156 and 202

Wednesday

170, 200, and 156.

the 200 game I had a 5 bagger, I was looking at a big game until I missed a 10 pin after the 5 and threw a good hit 4-9 and then a horrible 4-6...

we took all 8 points on Wednesday and I converted a 6-10 to win it....lol

[Amyers]

a little confidence build this week thanks to some tips from this site

My last 6 games, Monday practice…..
184, 156 and 202

Wednesday

170, 200, and 156.

the 200 game I had a 5 bagger, I was looking at a big game until I missed a 10 pin after the 5 and threw a good hit 4-9 and then a horrible 4-6...

we took all 8 points on Wednesday and I converted a 6-10 to win it....lol

Congrats

[LOUVIT]

thanks Amyers...

not bad for a 147 average so far in winter league....lol...it's all in the head! think before you throw the ball, what a concept!....lol..

[LOUVIT]

getting there, shot 549 today in league.