full ball return- where does spare ball go? [Archive]

1VegasBowler

10-09-2016, 07:58 AM

While I do bring 4 for league play and all 7 for tournaments, I only have 2 on the return. My plastic ball stays on the return along with my strike ball.

My plastic ball is for 6, 9 & 10 pins because I don't want to take a chance on accidentally getting any lift from my main ball and missing my spare.

This weekend is especially important because of it being a championship tournament, and today is my last day. I need a 770 series (w/hdcp) to be the leader in my age bracket.

Blomer

10-09-2016, 08:14 AM

Agree. Cup under return, empty seat in sitting area, or if next to empty lane, on their return. Never had an issue to ask for support for it.

bowl1820

10-09-2016, 09:00 AM

the shelf movement from top to bottom is annoying

"where does spare ball go?"

Since your annoyed by the movement from the top to bottom shelf, you must have a bottom shelf.

So the ball goes there.

But since you are apparently only using one ball, you must be annoyed watching the others move their spare ball.

Why does that annoy you?

Tony

10-09-2016, 11:00 AM

Reminds me of the time I told a woman I know that's my spare ball, she asked if I often lost my original ball and needed to use the spare one, or what it was for.....sort of like having a spare room.
Maybe the term should be extra ball.
There are plenty of places to put extra balls, even if you don't have ball returns with a lower rack. If you do have a lower rack, well that's an excellent place to put a ball, unless you have problems getting it out from there, it's probably the best place.

JasonNJ

10-09-2016, 11:21 AM

"where does spare ball go?"

Since your annoyed by the movement from the top to bottom shelf, you must have a bottom shelf.

So the ball goes there.

But since you are apparently only using one ball, you must be annoyed watching the others move their spare ball.

Why does that annoy you?

I bet because guys only use one hand when moving the balls from the return to the bottom shelf or vice versa and everyone knows 2 hands are better.

Mike White

10-09-2016, 01:40 PM

I bet because guys only use one hand when moving the balls from the return to the bottom shelf or vice versa and everyone knows 2 hands are better.

When I was bowling in a Sport Condition Scratch league, the center had the ball storage area under the ball return.

I was on the left lane, but my spare ball was under the ball return on the right side.

So I reached over the ball return, and to pick up my ball with one hand, I slid my fingers and thumb into the ball, and lifted.

The problem was, I lifted the ball up into the bottom of the ball return, which dislodged the ball from my grip, and it hit the approach with a fairly loud bang.

The guy on the left lane one pair over, who was up on the approach, gave me a look of being rather annoyed by the noise.

My response was... "Hey, I'm new to this bowling thing."

So yes, 2 hands just might be better.

Aslan

10-09-2016, 02:26 PM

I miss the bottom shelf. I even like the round tables in the old brunswick centers. I'm more than tired of everyone leaving bowling balls all over the seating area. At least once a night people are dropping them, knocking them off chairs, etc...

For me, it depends on the house and size of the teams. 5-man teams on Tuesday I leave it on the seat. When I bowl Wednesdays/Fridays...it's 4-man teams...so most nights I luck out and am the only 1-2 using a spare ball...so I just leave it on the rack.

It also depends on how many old ladies are in the league. Old ladies will literally do a ball count each time they get to the approach. I'm not kidding. At least 3-4 different times, different old ladies...they walk up, count the balls, and turn around and say, "There are too many balls up here. Who has more than one ball on the return?" They won't throw until someone removes a ball. I bought little planter cups at Home Depot for like 89 cents each...far cheaper than the bowling ball rings...and in houses where space is a premium, I just plop the cup on the floor...set my spare ball there. Other bowlers have seen me use them and asked me where I got them...just the little plastic things that you'd put a house plant in to keep the water from leaking out the bottom.

Jaescrub

10-09-2016, 04:58 PM

No lower rack at my house so I keep any "extra" balls close by in bag or on a ball cup.

J Anderson

10-09-2016, 05:20 PM

When I was bowling in a Sport Condition Scratch league, the center had the ball storage area under the ball return.

I was on the left lane, but my spare ball was under the ball return on the right side.

So I reached over the ball return, and to pick up my ball with one hand, I slid my fingers and thumb into the ball, and lifted.

The problem was, I lifted the ball up into the bottom of the ball return, which dislodged the ball from my grip, and it hit the approach with a fairly loud bang.

The guy on the left lane one pair over, who was up on the approach, gave me a look of being rather annoyed by the noise.

My response was... "Hey, I'm new to this bowling thing."

So yes, 2 hands just might be better.

And in the USBC Level 1 coaching guide, coaches are told that new bowlers should be taught to pick the ball up with both hands and then insert their fingers as they get in their stance.

2handedsniper

10-09-2016, 05:52 PM

Mike White

10-09-2016, 06:03 PM

And in the USBC Level 1 coaching guide, coaches are told that new bowlers should be taught to pick the ball up with both hands and then insert their fingers as they get in their stance.

The context is different though.

New bowlers that lack experience may not notice that a ball could be coming out of the ball return at any moment.

If you're picking up the front most ball on the rack, the only place you can't grab it is were it's touching the previous ball.

With one hand, inserted into the holes, your hand could be between your ball, and the ball coming out of the ball return, about to smash your fingers.

By using 2 hands, one on each side of the ball, you tend to pick the ball up in a way that your fingers can't get smashed.

It's like teaching a youngster to ride a bike, you start with training wheels knowing full well, at some point those wheels will come off.

classygranny

10-09-2016, 06:15 PM

The context is different though.

New bowlers that lack experience may not notice that a ball could be coming out of the ball return at any moment.

If you're picking up the front most ball on the rack, the only place you can't grab it is were it's touching the previous ball.

With one hand, inserted into the holes, your hand could be between your ball, and the ball coming out of the ball return, about to smash your fingers.

By using 2 hands, one on each side of the ball, you tend to pick the ball up in a way that your fingers can't get smashed.

It's like teaching a youngster to ride a bike, you start with training wheels knowing full well, at some point those wheels will come off.

Also, by using two hands to lift the ball from the rack, you are not tiring your bowling arm and hand. To us wimpy women that's a lot of lifting in the course of two hours - :)

Mike White

10-09-2016, 06:15 PM

what is proper etiquette when spare ball returns after your spare so the ball return does not overflow and your ball could crack like 4 of mine did from a full return? do you wait while your spare ball retyusn and switch for a 2nd time?

More than likely your balls cracked from being tossed in the air rather than rolled.

Personally when I don't strike on the first ball, I pick up my spare ball (usually in the seats) and throw it, then I'll wait for the next bowler to throw their ball, and I pick my spare ball off the rack and place it back on the seat.

That way I'm not needlessly delaying the bowler after me by making them wait for me to retrieve my spare ball before they throw their strike shot, and I'm not taking up more than my fair share of space on the ball return as if I just left it there.

The brain however is a mysterious object.

Since picking the ball up has become a habit, it isn't something I have to think about, and that's when strange things can go wrong.

I got to the ball return to start my frame, and couldn't find my ball, I did however find my spare ball on the rack. A quick peek at the seat, and sure enough, my strike ball was there.

I figure I must have had a brain cramp and put the wrong ball on the seat.

Mike White

10-09-2016, 06:19 PM

Also, by using two hands to lift the ball from the rack, you are not tiring your bowling arm and hand. To us wimpy women that's a lot of lifting in the course of two hours - :)

When bowling in a senior league against a "wimpy" woman bowler, I will occasionally pick their ball off the rack and hand it to them.

After they say thank you, I mention for them to be careful, because I spit in their thumb hole, who says there's no defense in bowling.

LOUVIT

10-09-2016, 06:33 PM

Wow, I never seen this as an issue before...lol. My house has a good amount of space on top and a bottom rack for each lane. I also don't see an issue with getting it from the bottom rack and I have a bad back and don't bend a lot. I don't think any bowler should have more than 2 balls on the top. IMO

classygranny

10-09-2016, 07:32 PM

When bowling in a senior league against a "wimpy" woman bowler, I will occasionally pick their ball off the rack and hand it to them.

After they say thank you, I mention for them to be careful, because I spit in their thumb hole, who says there's no defense in bowling.

HaHa....careful with us senior women. I know some that would take you out for indicating they were unable to fend their ball for themselves...even if you meant it as a nice gesture, spit included.

LOUVIT

10-09-2016, 08:38 PM

2handedsniper

10-09-2016, 11:08 PM

the shelf exchange is very annoying could i regain my performance pin loss by not having to switch every frame because i always leave a corner pin?

JaxBowlingGuy

10-09-2016, 11:21 PM

the shelf exchange is very annoying could i regain my performance pin loss by not having to switch every frame because i always leave a corner pin?

You use a plastic ball. There's not going to be a difference between the first plastic ball and a second. If you're throwing two different plastic balls then I will keep my opinion to myself on that. This thread is going the way of being locked with these kind of questions.

Mike White

10-10-2016, 01:00 AM

HaHa....careful with us senior women. I know some that would take you out for indicating they were unable to fend their ball for themselves...even if you meant it as a nice gesture, spit included.

One time I got quite the opposite response.

After I picked the ball up and handed it to her, she achieved her first strike of the day.

Next time she was up, she waited, and gave me the look of..... you're going to pick that up for me again, aren't you.

Some people can be so superstitious.

Timmyb

10-10-2016, 05:56 AM

the shelf exchange is very annoying could i regain my performance pin loss by not having to switch every frame because i always leave a corner pin?

Move up in ball weight, and you might not leave corner pins. This is what you get using a 10 lb. ball.

2handedsniper

10-10-2016, 07:54 AM

then why is 185 the cash in total in PBA sport events with everyone using a 15 pound ball when I bowl 165 every week?

ep1977

10-10-2016, 08:06 AM

then why is 185 the cash in total in PBA sport events with everyone using a 15 pound ball when I bowl 165 every week?

Your bowling a 165 on a THS not a PBA sport pattern.

2handedsniper

10-10-2016, 08:13 AM

i know but i throw the ball over the over patterns so the oil does not affect my ball

2handedsniper

10-10-2016, 08:14 AM

Also, I do not really hook the ball took up, I just throw and launch the ball down the lane

Mike White

10-10-2016, 08:53 AM

then why is 185 the cash in total in PBA sport events with everyone using a 15 pound ball when I bowl 165 every week?

Where are you seeing 185 as the cash in PBA Sport events?

Maybe what you're seeing is a cash line at +185

If there is 14 games, that would be a 213 avg to cash. If only 7 games, thats a 226 average

drlawsoniii

10-10-2016, 08:55 AM

then why is 185 the cash in total in PBA sport events with everyone using a 15 pound ball when I bowl 165 every week?

Can you not keep your lies straight anymore in your other thread about being in the special olympics you just said you are averaging 156? Which lie is it?

NewToBowling

10-10-2016, 10:12 AM

Yep, from what I understand a + number indicates how many pins over 200 the player is over course of x amount of games.

JaxBowlingGuy

10-10-2016, 10:37 AM

Yep, from what I understand a + number indicates how many pins over 200 the player is over course of x amount of games.

Correct. Quite a few tournaments are tracked like that. It's just a running tally like below.

216- +16
210- +26
185- +11

1VegasBowler

10-10-2016, 10:37 AM

Yep, from what I understand a + number indicates how many pins over 200 the player is over course of x amount of games.

That is correct.

During the year I worked a few USBC tournaments here in Vegas and every score above 200 gets bonus points. It is also true, that, it goes to the negative when they go under 200.

The challenges are interesting in these tournaments, where they bowl on fresh, burn & double burn.

But I have also seen where they have to bowl 8 games in a day where there is no re oil.

Either way, it's fun to watch!

bowl1820

10-10-2016, 11:58 AM

Can you not keep your lies straight anymore in your other thread about being in the special olympics you just said you are averaging 156? Which lie is it?

I looked him up,He was on 2 leagues 1 winter and 1 summer

156 is his actual USBC 93 game average for (2015-16) winter season, no report for the summer league yet.

But checking league Sec. standings he appears to have bowled the summer on a 13 week league, started with a 156 ave. and ended with a 147.
High game was 195 and high series was 493

He doesn't appear to have a current 16-17 usbc card, so he's either on a unsanctioned league or just open bowling or the usbc hasn't received the app. yet.

He posted on Brunswicks high score page that he shot a 219 last season but I can't find the standings to confirm it.

collinwho

10-10-2016, 12:16 PM

I put my spare ball on the floor below the rack. I don't use a ball cup, I just try to set it on the thumb hole so it won't roll around. If I need to use it, I pick it up off the floor and throw it and then move my strike ball to the floor so I don't have to wait for my spare ball to come back before leaving the approach.

Amyers

10-10-2016, 12:59 PM

That is correct.

During the year I worked a few USBC tournaments here in Vegas and every score above 200 gets bonus points. It is also true, that, it goes to the negative when they go under 200.

The challenges are interesting in these tournaments, where they bowl on fresh, burn & double burn.

But I have also seen where they have to bowl 8 games in a day where there is no re oil.

Either way, it's fun to watch!

Not sure that I would refer to it as bonus points though. It's just a different way of tracking score using a baseline of 200. 212=+12, 205=+5, 187=-13 so the previous series would go down a +4. No "bonus" really involved it's just the total above or below 200.

bowl1820

10-10-2016, 01:33 PM

Not sure that I would refer to it as bonus points though. It's just a different way of tracking score using a baseline of 200. 212=+12, 205=+5, 187=-13 so the previous series would go down a +4. No "bonus" really involved it's just the total above or below 200.

Unless of course the tournament he's referring to actually have a bonus system based on the pins +/-.

There's been tournaments over the years here that have had "bonus pin" systems, like if you didn't cash. You got bonus pins for the next time you bowled the tournament etc.

I don't remember seeing one based on the +/-, but you probably could.

2handedsniper

10-10-2016, 07:34 PM

some PBA events are pin total 1555 / 8 games = 194

2handedsniper

10-10-2016, 07:35 PM

and i also have sanctioned games of 197, 199, 200, 212, 193,

1VegasBowler

10-10-2016, 08:07 PM

and i also have sanctioned games of 197, 199, 200, 212, 193,

And you're still not getting a PBA card anytime soon.

For the last week alone I have sanctioned scores of 254, 213, 205, 237, 215, 211, 207, 216.

If you're going to spout off about scores, come up with something that's better than a year old.

1VegasBowler

10-10-2016, 08:08 PM

some PBA events are pin total 1555 / 8 games = 194

And that is not even close to being in the cash.

Timmyb

10-10-2016, 08:30 PM

and i also have sanctioned games of 197, 199, 200, 212, 193,

My high sanctioned game for this year is 264. And waaaaaaay more games higher than your 212.

1VegasBowler

10-10-2016, 08:33 PM

I didn't even include a pair of 268's or a 265. lol

Mike White

10-10-2016, 09:12 PM

And you're still not getting a PBA card anytime soon.

Not even a PBA Christmas Card, when he pays to join the PBA fan club?

JaxBowlingGuy

10-10-2016, 09:31 PM

some PBA events are pin total 1555 / 8 games = 194

What PBA tournament has that for a cash spot? Which one were you looking at?

chrono00

10-10-2016, 10:20 PM

and i also have sanctioned games of 197, 199, 200, 212, 193,

I've had a 219 and 224 sanctioned in the past month, and a high sanction game for me of 252? ( 250 something I think that's it). Guess I'm good to not only cash but win a few pba events with those numbers

From what I've seen on ur sanctioned averages I average a few more than You recently. So I'm not that good really...but I guess I'm a pba hall of famer

And averaging 194 over 8 games in a pba event? Those are probably on the bottom half of the competitors for the most part.

But sport pattern or a THS if ur averaging in the 150s chances r ur average won't change as u chuck it down the lane,

1VegasBowler

10-10-2016, 10:40 PM

Not even a PBA Christmas Card, when he pays to join the PBA fan club?

Maybe the Mickey Mouse Club. But I think that's a stretch as well.

Tony

10-11-2016, 12:29 AM

what is proper etiquette when spare ball returns after your spare so the ball return does not overflow and your ball could crack like 4 of mine did from a full return? do you wait while your spare ball retyusn and switch for a 2nd time?

Why did you have 4 balls on the ball return ....

They might not crack if you don't heave them 20' down the lane.

There are several ways to handle keeping the rack clear of extra balls, the easiest would be when you throw the spare as you exit the lane take your strike ball off the top rack and put it on the bottom, freeing space for your spare ball.

On the other hand if your strike ball and spare ball are both plastic balls, the real question is ....why ?

It would be fun to see what happens with your ball at one place I've practiced, the ball returns shoot the balls so fast that they punt balls off the rack, 10lb balls should really fly off that high powered ball return / ball launcher !

Aslan

10-14-2016, 08:46 AM

Where are you seeing 185 as the cash in PBA Sport events?

Maybe what you're seeing is a cash line at +185

If there is 14 games, that would be a 213 avg to cash. If only 7 games, thats a 226 average

:cool:

Yup...I used to watch nearly every PWBA and PBA50 event online (before boycotting the PBA over the Motiv incident)...and I can't remember even a PWBA or PBA50 tournament where someone cashed with a 185 average...and thats on a sport pattern. Last two times I bowled on sport patterns (as MWhite recalls)...I averaged 149 each time. At that time, on THSs I was averaging about 162-172.

To make matter worse...when I bowled the BVL at Arlington (MWhite was there for this) for Citrus Belt USBC...the only Citrus Belt average I had was the adjusted sport shot average...which pushed me into the "A Division" (I bowl BVL in OCUSBC each year and have always been in the B Division until this (2016) BVL. Had I bowled in the B Division, I'd have won the Citrus Belt and represented them at the State BVL tournament. Instead, I finished 2nd in the A Division...made plans to go to sweeps that weekend...then got a call from Citrus Belt USBC saying the A Division winner couldn't go and asked if I wanted to go in his place. I declined because;

1) I already changed my plans to go to sweeps.
2) I had virtually a 0-2% chance of winning the A Division at the State level.
3) It was in some God awful area of central California...which for anyone outside of California...is the central part...and it's just a hot, dusty poo hole of avocado farms and hillbillies in trailer parks. Last time I went through there on a motorcycling trip it was 108 degrees and I had to keep pouring bottled water all over myself to keep from getting heat exhaustion. I could actually see 'steam' coming off my forearms when the water would hit them.

So...yeah...+185 is not (averaging 185). A 185 average over 10 games would be a: - 150. In the PBA50 (not even PBA national level) event held locally, only 3 super senior bowlers actually averaged less than 185....out of 88 participants. And I think, only one of them was an actual PBA member.