I scratch my head when.....

[fokai73]

When I see bowlers during warm ups never touching their spare ball and shoot at corners. Then throw a fit when they miss a ten pin or 7 pin. :p;)

Or...

Those bowlers who kick and scream and throw a fit when they bowl bad, and only bowl 3 games a week. :p;) (no practice)

[1VegasBowler]

My first 6 warmups (3 each side) are centered on getting my line for my strike ball.

More often than not, my next 6 are centered on the 10 pin with my plastic ball.

And just for a few laughs, once in a while I'll try to throw my plastic ball for a strike. lol

[zacks]

My recently revamped warm-up routine consists of shooting a 10 pin on each lane then 2 strike balls on each lane. 6 shots is all I need, I take the first 5 right away, then the last one with 1-2 minutes left in warm-ups. Only exception is if I think my usual first ball out of the bag isn't going to work, then I sneak a couple in with my next ball. I used to just throw the ball until practice was over and start the first game with a burned up line.

Second one is where I'm guilty. I just don't find the time to practice. Bowling two leagues helps, I look at it as getting in reps, but the fundamentals don't get properly exercised.

[fokai73]

having a "warm up" routine is like having a pre shot routine. '

I do the same warm up routine in my trios league. I guess I have more reps than the traditional 5 man or 4 man teams do. Plus, the house goes more than 10 mins. more like 15 mins. of warm ups.

I only deviate from my routine if ball/thumb adjustments are needed, or coming in late, or my little girl wants to talk to me before night night - I bowl second shift and family first.

[Tony]

My warm up is mostly to get me warmed up and loose, it's hell getting old !

[JaxBowlingGuy]

My first 6 warmups (3 each side) are centered on getting my line for my strike ball.

More often than not, my next 6 are centered on the 10 pin with my plastic ball.

And just for a few laughs, once in a while I'll try to throw my plastic ball for a strike. lol

Wow im lucky to get 5 throws total during league before we start

[collinwho]

Ideally, I'm not using warm ups to figure out how to shoot the 10 pin. I do usually take one shot at the 10 and one at the 7, because it gives me a little confidence. If time is tight, though, I'm not wasting it on corner pins.

[NewToBowling]

In my leagues most people either show up late for warm-ups or throw 2-3 balls and call it a day so for the most part I get 10+ tosses for warm-ups

[J Anderson]

When I see bowlers during warm ups never touching their spare ball and shoot at corners. Then throw a fit when they miss a ten pin or 7 pin.

Or...

Those bowlers who kick and scream and throw a fit when they bowl bad, and only bowl 3 games a week. :p;) (no practice)

A few weeks ago, after watching a member of the opposing team miss 4 or 5 ten pins in the last game. I suggested that he get a plastic spare ball. His reply was that he had bought one, tried it and it kept going in the gutter. He felt that he didn't need one since some nights he doesn't miss any ten pins.:rolleyes:

[Amyers]

A few weeks ago, after watching a member of the opposing team miss 4 or 5 ten pins in the last game. I suggested that he get a plastic spare ball. His reply was that he had bought one, tried it and it kept going in the gutter. He felt that he didn't need one since some nights he doesn't miss any ten pins.:rolleyes:

I know that bowler. I deal with that crap all the time. Well I struck like that once!!! Even the blind squirrel occasionally finds a nut.

[zacks]

I know that bowler. I deal with that crap all the time. Well I struck like that once!!! Even the blind squirrel occasionally finds a nut.

Yeah, that was me with the 10-pin! Haha. At least I listened to you. I did dump my first couple into the gutter (it's a serious mental adjustment when the ball goes dead straight), but confidence is way up and so is my 10-pin percentage.

[Amyers]

Yeah, that was me with the 10-pin! Haha. At least I listened to you. I did dump my first couple into the gutter (it's a serious mental adjustment when the ball goes dead straight), but confidence is way up and so is my 10-pin percentage.

Awesome. Striking will get you a high average spare shooting keeps it that way and helps you win tournaments.

[1VegasBowler]

Awesome. Striking will get you a high average spare shooting keeps it that way and helps you win tournaments.

Strikes for show, spares for dough.

[fokai73]

I know of two bowlers, both are between a tweener and cranker. Both hooked at their corner pins, both were either on it or or not. One week they are 5 for 5 and the next week 2 out of 6. Both averaged in the 190's for YEARS I've known them (8 yrs). For years I told them to get a spare ball, both gave me different reasons, but the answers were NO.

Then one of them decided to get a spare ball 2 seasons ago - hammer carbon fiber one?. The guy that got the spare ball, came up to me in Reno and said, "hey man, I finally got a spare ball. MAN!!! WHAT A DIFFERENCE!"

Long story short. The guy that still hooks the ball for corners, he is @ 196. The other guy who got a spare ball..... 215!!!! no freak'n joke.

Edit: when bowlers ask me what can they do, or how do they break 200 average... my answer is simple, spares. shoot a double and go sheet with 9/ you'll break 200.

But many bowler take spare shooting for granted.

[NewToBowling]

I have big issue with splits. I can pick up spares and multi spares (non-splits) on a regular basis but 2-3 open frames due to splits kills you. So to me it's about making a good first shot to where I don't leave un-makeable spares (7-10, greek church, etc)

[Mike White]

I know of two bowlers, both are between a tweener and cranker. Both hooked at their corner pins, both were either on it or or not. One week they are 5 for 5 and the next week 2 out of 6. Both averaged in the 190's for YEARS I've known them (8 yrs). For years I told them to get a spare ball, both gave me different reasons, but the answers were NO.

Then one of them decided to get a spare ball 2 seasons ago - hammer carbon fiber one?. The guy that got the spare ball, came up to me in Reno and said, "hey man, I finally got a spare ball. MAN!!! WHAT A DIFFERENCE!"

Long story short. The guy that still hooks the ball for corners, he is @ 196. The other guy who got a spare ball..... 215!!!! no freak'n joke.

Edit: when bowlers ask me what can they do, or how do they break 200 average... my answer is simple, spares. shoot a double and go sheet with 9/ you'll break 200.

But many bowler take spare shooting for granted.

What you have is one bowler who worked to improve his game vs another who sat on the couch.

It's no surprise that the one who worked on his game, improved.

However, what if the one sitting on his couch, instead worked on his game to improve his strike %.

That would allow you to answer the question: Which is more valuable, working on strikes or working on spares.

[fokai73]

What you have is one bowler who worked to improve his game vs another you sat on the couch.

It's no surprise that the one who worked on his game, improved.

However, what if the one sitting on his couch, instead worked on his game to improve his strike %.

That would allow you to answer the question: Which is more valuable, working on strikes or working on spares.


The bowler that never got a spare ball. He practiced 3 to 20 games a week - not sure if he does now. The other guy at 215 only bowls 3 games a week. The improved bowler did practice the one summer to get used to the spare ball, that I know. But since then, he never practices unless before a tourney. He travels for work and is more into training in another sport. bowling for him is fun...


your last statement, "which is more valuable, working on strike or working on spares"...... are you bowling only on THS or sport?

[Mike White]

The bowler that never got a spare ball. He practiced 3 to 20 games a week - not sure if he does now. The other guy at 215 only bowls 3 games a week. The improved bowler did practice the one summer to get used to the spare ball, that I know. But since then, he never practices unless before a tourney. He travels for work and is more into training in another sport. bowling for him is fun...


your last statement, "which is more valuable, working on strike or working on spares"...... are you bowling only on THS or sport?

You would think that improving your spare making ability would be more valuable than striking on a sport condition because you have to shoot are more spares compared to a THS.

It just doesn't work out that way.

It works out that the value isn't based on the difficulty of the lane pattern. It is a function of the rules on how we keep score.

Strikes are overvalued compared to spares in the scoring process.

Back in the "old days" when strikes were much harder to come by, the overvalue of strikes wasn't as obvious.

To make the math easier, lets assume that each bowler either throws a strike, or a 9 count on the 1st ball.

Lets take two absolute beginners. Both strike 0% of the time, and spare 0% of the time. Both are expected to average 90.

One bowler works strictly on their spares, while the other works strictly on strikes.

Lets say for each month of training on a specific ability, the bowler cuts their error rate for that ability in half.

One bowler will now strike 0% of the time, while sparing 50% of the time. For an expected average of 140. Each frame the bowler either achieves a score of 9, or 19, 50% for each result.

The other bowler will now strike 50% of the time, while sparing 0%.

That bowler will have an expected average of 166.

12.5% frames will achieve a score of 30.
12.5% frames will achieve a score of 29.
25.0% frames will achieve a score of 19.
50.0% frames will achieve a score of 9.

If these bowlers start the month with 50% error rate, and cut their error rate in half, their new ability level would be 75%.

The reason for focusing on their error rate is because more work results in diminishing returns, and also avoids going beyond 100% ability.

It works out that it's more beneficial to work on halving error rates of strikes.

The lower your strike error %, the less significant your spare error % becomes because you have less opportunities to attempt spares.

With a 1% strike error rate, and a 100% spare error rate, you're going to average vastly higher than a 100% strike error rate, and a 1% spare error rate.

[LOUVIT]

My warm up is just that to loosen my hand and body, funny that in 10 minutes of practice I'm lucky to get 3-4 shots, people just take their time. if I leave an easy spare I used to just foul and let the next person go but no one caught on so I stopped doing that. In the old day's we just had shadow practice, no pins judt true warm up fast pace and lot's of shots

[zacks]

You would think that improving your spare making ability would be more valuable than striking on a sport condition because you have to shoot are more spares compared to a THS.

It just doesn't work out that way.

It works out that the value isn't based on the difficulty of the lane pattern. It is a function of the rules on how we keep score.

Strikes are overvalued compared to spares in the scoring process.

Back in the "old days" when strikes were much harder to come by, the overvalue of strikes wasn't as obvious.

To make the math easier, lets assume that each bowler either throws a strike, or a 9 count on the 1st ball.

Lets take two absolute beginners. Both strike 0% of the time, and spare 0% of the time. Both are expected to average 90.

One bowler works strictly on their spares, while the other works strictly on strikes.

Lets say for each month of training on a specific ability, the bowler cuts their error rate for that ability in half.

One bowler will now strike 0% of the time, while sparing 50% of the time. For an expected average of 140. Each frame the bowler either achieves a score of 9, or 19, 50% for each result.

The other bowler will now strike 50% of the time, while sparing 0%.

That bowler will have an expected average of 166.

12.5% frames will achieve a score of 30.
12.5% frames will achieve a score of 29.
25.0% frames will achieve a score of 19.
50.0% frames will achieve a score of 9.

If these bowlers start the month with 50% error rate, and cut their error rate in half, their new ability level would be 75%.

The reason for focusing on their error rate is because more work results in diminishing returns, and also avoids going beyond 100% ability.

It works out that it's more beneficial to work on halving error rates of strikes.

The lower your strike error %, the less significant your spare error % becomes because you have less opportunities to attempt spares.

With a 1% strike error rate, and a 100% spare error rate, you're going to average vastly higher than a 100% strike error rate, and a 1% spare error rate.

I think when you look at bowlers with averages around 200 that can't pick up the most commonly left single pin spare because they can't throw the ball straight, buying a plastic ball to bump the average up 10 to 15 pins a game is a lot easier than trying to strike more. It's not a question of practicing, but having the correct equipment.

[Mike White]

I think when you look at bowlers with averages around 200 that can't pick up the most commonly left single pin spare because they can't throw the ball straight, buying a plastic ball to bump the average up 10 to 15 pins a game is a lot easier than trying to strike more. It's not a question of practicing, but having the correct equipment.

With a plastic ball, you need to be able to hit your target to make the corner pin.

The problem is, most people when they get a plastic ball find that they've never been required to hit their target before.

The THS takes balls thrown too far right and via friction guide the ball back to the left. Likewise balls thrown left hits a puddle of oil and stops hooking.

You don't learn for your success, you learn from your failure.

If you bowl on a condition that masks your failure, it limits the likelihood you're learning.

[Amyers]

You would think that improving your spare making ability would be more valuable than striking on a sport condition because you have to shoot are more spares compared to a THS.

It just doesn't work out that way.

It works out that the value isn't based on the difficulty of the lane pattern. It is a function of the rules on how we keep score.

Strikes are overvalued compared to spares in the scoring process.

Back in the "old days" when strikes were much harder to come by, the overvalue of strikes wasn't as obvious.

To make the math easier, lets assume that each bowler either throws a strike, or a 9 count on the 1st ball.

Lets take two absolute beginners. Both strike 0% of the time, and spare 0% of the time. Both are expected to average 90.

One bowler works strictly on their spares, while the other works strictly on strikes.

Lets say for each month of training on a specific ability, the bowler cuts their error rate for that ability in half.

One bowler will now strike 0% of the time, while sparing 50% of the time. For an expected average of 140. Each frame the bowler either achieves a score of 9, or 19, 50% for each result.

The other bowler will now strike 50% of the time, while sparing 0%.

That bowler will have an expected average of 166.

12.5% frames will achieve a score of 30.
12.5% frames will achieve a score of 29.
25.0% frames will achieve a score of 19.
50.0% frames will achieve a score of 9.

If these bowlers start the month with 50% error rate, and cut their error rate in half, their new ability level would be 75%.

The reason for focusing on their error rate is because more work results in diminishing returns, and also avoids going beyond 100% ability.

It works out that it's more beneficial to work on halving error rates of strikes.

The lower your strike error %, the less significant your spare error % becomes because you have less opportunities to attempt spares.

With a 1% strike error rate, and a 100% spare error rate, you're going to average vastly higher than a 100% strike error rate, and a 1% spare error rate.

I hate to agree with mike on this but in modern bowling the ability to strike is the better investment in time. The ability to make spares can help you cover some gaps on a off night or can be the difference between a close match but all things being equal I will never put as much time in my spare game as I do my strike game.

25+ years ago when I competed in this game a couple of doubles or a turkey and a double filled in with 9/'s was enough to win most matches at least in league and smaller house tournaments. Now days it doesn't even make the cut.

That doesn't mean a spare balls not important and learning to use it properly isn't a good thing it's just that it doesn't mean as much as it once did.

Someone quoted the old adage strikes for show spares for dough. That's not really true anymore. It's strike or go home with empty pockets.

[Aslan]

When I see bowlers during warm ups never touching their spare ball and shoot at corners. Then throw a fit when they miss a ten pin or 7 pin. :p;)

Or...

Those bowlers who kick and scream and throw a fit when they bowl bad, and only bowl 3 games a week. :p;) (no practice)

...because thats not what warm-ups are for. It's equally annoying when you're trying to get enough warm-up shots in to decide on a line/ball combination...and bowlers are using warm-up time to practice picking up spares. Having trouble with spares? Good....practice. The GREAT thing about spare shooting practice...is you can do it on burnt, pooed out lanes...which is all that is usually available to practice on.

If I'm warming up and leave a corner pin...and it's a league where they let you take two shots...then I will certainly throw at it just to get some confidence and make sure there are no thumb fit issues with the spare ball. But in leagues where you take one shot and then switch to the other lane...no way I'm wasting time shooting spares...thats what practice is for.

[LowDown]

We bowl a normal frame in warm ups so i generally will throw at the ten pin first and then bring out my strike ball for the "spare". I've been throwing at the ten pin the same way for 30 years and it still helps to get the feel for the shot. Though as Mike White and Amyers have said I feel like it used to matter more. Now if I see someone just throwing for strikes during warm ups I don't really think anything about it, but to the OP's point I agree that you then can't kick and scream because you missed a simple 10 or 7 pin spare (though I don't really ever find it justified to kick or throw things).

[Amyers]

...because thats not what warm-ups are for. It's equally annoying when you're trying to get enough warm-up shots in to decide on a line/ball combination...and bowlers are using warm-up time to practice picking up spares. Having trouble with spares? Good....practice. The GREAT thing about spare shooting practice...is you can do it on burnt, pooed out lanes...which is all that is usually available to practice on.

If I'm warming up and leave a corner pin...and it's a league where they let you take two shots...then I will certainly throw at it just to get some confidence and make sure there are no thumb fit issues with the spare ball. But in leagues where you take one shot and then switch to the other lane...no way I'm wasting time shooting spares...thats what practice is for.

I agree on 10's but I always shoot a 7 before the end of practice. I hook at them and the line is different from house to house and unfortunately here lately from night to night in the same house.

[Aslan]

I agree on 10's but I always shoot a 7 before the end of practice. I hook at them and the line is different from house to house and unfortunately here lately from night to night in the same house.

Stop hooking at them and use the extra shot to make sure you're lined up.

A plastic ball on a straight line isn't going to change from house to house nor day to day. And the only way it'll miss is if You miss.

People that get annoyed that nobody is practicing spare shooting in warm-ups are the same people that are in 2-3 leagues each week and don't bother to practice but 1-2 times a year. I've spent more time shooting at corner pins this year, in practice, than nearly anyone that uses warm-up time to do so.

[Amyers]

Stop hooking at them and use the extra shot to make sure you're lined up.

A plastic ball on a straight line isn't going to change from house to house nor day to day. And the only way it'll miss is if You miss.

People that get annoyed that nobody is practicing spare shooting in warm-ups are the same people that are in 2-3 leagues each week and don't bother to practice but 1-2 times a year. I've spent more time shooting at corner pins this year, in practice, than nearly anyone that uses warm-up time to do so.

I've tried to change over to shooting them with the spare but I make the pin at 96% on THS and 91% on sport shots by hooking at it. Even with a good amount of practice I can't get over 85% at it with the spare ball. I think it's a mental thing for some reason I just pitch one or two per ten tries at it straight down the lane with the spare ball. I don't just miss my target on those two I completely straighten it out and miss by a mile. Unless I find a pattern where I can't convert it over 90% on it's just not worth the time and effort.

[J Anderson]

I've tried to change over to shooting them with the spare but I make the pin at 96% on THS and 91% on sport shots by hooking at it. Even with a good amount of practice I can't get over 85% at it with the spare ball. I think it's a mental thing for some reason I just pitch one or two per ten tries at it straight down the lane with the spare ball. I don't just miss my target on those two I completely straighten it out and miss by a mile. Unless I find a pattern where I can't convert it over 90% on it's just not worth the time and effort.

As much as Rob M., or I might preach about the benefits of throwing straight at most spares, we are not going to be able to convince some one with a conversion rate >90% hooking the ball to change. So much of this game depends on confidence. While I don't think it should be all that hard to get used to throwing straight, most bowlers don't even want to consider it until they hit a condition where their conversion rate for a left side single pin spare drops below 50%.

[manke]

Aslan and Amyers need to kiss and make up. You fight like your married!!

[Amyers]

Aslan and Amyers need to kiss and make up. You fight like your married!!

Me and Aslan both enjoy discussing bowling. I don't think he's ever made me mad. Exasperated quite often mad no. lol

[fokai73]

I've tried to change over to shooting them with the spare but I make the pin at 96% on THS and 91% on sport shots by hooking at it. Even with a good amount of practice I can't get over 85% at it with the spare ball. I think it's a mental thing for some reason I just pitch one or two per ten tries at it straight down the lane with the spare ball. I don't just miss my target on those two I completely straighten it out and miss by a mile. Unless I find a pattern where I can't convert it over 90% on it's just not worth the time and effort.

that's pretty impressive 96% and 91%.... what software/app do you use.

I was 88% last season missing 17 single pins out of 141 leaves. and 88% the year before missing 20 out of 176 single pins. and this season 15 games in 33 out of 34 (missed a 5 pin lol)

[Amyers]

that's pretty impressive 96% and 91%.... what software/app do you use.

I was 88% last season missing 17 single pins out of 141 leaves. and 88% the year before missing 20 out of 176 single pins. and this season 15 games in 33 out of 34 (missed a 5 pin lol)

I started using Pin Pal this season. Unfortunately I didn't start last season. That's over about 6-8 weeks in my leagues this fall. I should note the 91% is a mixture of sport and challenge shots not just sport. My Sunday travel league is challenge patterns and I've bowled three tournaments this year that were on sport patterns. And if you didn't read all of the previous posts this is 7 pin only. I wish my 10 pin percentages were this high.