When it makes sense to let the other guy go ahead of you.

[Tony]

I have found in instances where the bowler on the next lane has left a big nasty split that it's better for me to step back and let him shoot it before I get up on the lane.

It might be a little superstitious but I can't tell you the number of times I've seen a good bowler get up and bowl only to leave the exact same split as was next to him. I've heard it called the "see one, be one" phenomenon.

How many other bowlers do that ?

[RobLV1]

A lot of bowlers do it, and it's ridiculous! It does nothing but slow down the pace. If the pins left on another lane influences anything about the way you bowl, you really need to work on your concentration.

[classygranny]

The only reason I tend to wait for the bowler to throw the second shot is that they are usually upset at leaving a split and all they are thinking about is get their ball and throw. Sometimes I feel they will be rushing me, so I just wait. If it's a makable spare I typically bowl, but a huge split (4-6, big four, greek church) I wait. And again, depends on who is next to me, some people have one rhythm and then I know I won't get rushed up on.

[Tony]

Could be, but I see the guys that go ahead and throw who are much better bowlers than I get duplicate leaves when doing it.

Just Fri I was bowling against a guy who goes ahead and bowls with the guy on the next lane has the 4 7 6 10 standing and leaves exactly the same leave, he has great concentration, carries a 250 average, and was bowling on first 6 or 7 .....he shot a 300 the next game.

I think I'll continue to do it, and not feel a bit bad about it, even with waiting the extra 10-20 seconds I'm still done before many of the slow guys that aren't ready and down at the lane, clean the ball for 10 seconds and stand on the approach for another 10......

[bowl1820]

I have found in instances where the bowler on the next lane has left a big nasty split that it's better for me to step back and let him shoot it before I get up on the lane.

It might be a little superstitious but I can't tell you the number of times I've seen a good bowler get up and bowl only to leave the exact same split as was next to him. I've heard it called the "see one, be one" phenomenon.

How many other bowlers do that ?

That is and has been a common occurrence for years and yes a lot of bowlers are superstitious about it. I've also seen a bowler get up and bowl only to leave the exact same split, But I've also seen just as many or more throw a strike.

There's nothing supernatural about it, it's just part of the mental game. It's like baseball players wearing their lucky "socks" or carrying any "lucky" totem (Like Sam Malone from "Cheers" had a lucky bottle cap"). It's just something that puts you in the right state of mind.

As for it slowing down the pace, unless everybody and their brother is leaving splits and doing it. The small amount of extra time one bowler takes is pretty minimal, Not much different (probably less) than the time took by bowler's taking re-racks.

Now according to old Lane Etiquette, A bowler shooting a spare has the right of way over a bowler with a full rack. So waiting for them to shoot the spare isn't that out of line.


Now have I done it? Sure sometimes, Not because of a superstition though. It's a chance for a extra moment to compose yourself etc. It's like taking a re-rack when you know you don't need it, you just wanted extra time to think about what your doing before you make your shot.

Sometimes it's a bit of gamesmanship, you standing there waiting for the player to shoot his spare. He might rush to get done, miss the spare that's a open for the other team.

Just remember "Don't rush and Don't let the other team (or your own team) rush you. Making a good shot and scoring good, makes up for taking a few extra 15-30 second's to make your shot."

[Tony]

That is and has been a common occurrence for years and yes a lot of bowlers are superstitious about it. I've also seen a bowler get up and bowl only to leave the exact same split, But I've also seen just as many or more throw a strike.

There's nothing supernatural about it, it's just part of the mental game. It's like baseball players wearing their lucky "socks" or carrying any "lucky" totem (Like Sam Malone from "Cheers" had a lucky bottle cap"). It's just something that puts you in the right state of mind.

As for it slowing down the pace, unless everybody and their brother is leaving splits and doing it. The small amount of extra time one bowler takes is pretty minimal, Not much different (probably less) than the time took by bowler's taking re-racks.

Now according to old Lane Etiquette, A bowler shooting a spare has the right of way over a bowler with a full rack. So waiting for them to shoot the spare isn't that out of line.


Now have I done it? Sure sometimes, Not because of a superstition though. It's a chance for a extra moment to compose yourself etc. It's like taking a re-rack when you know you don't need it, you just wanted extra time to think about what your doing before you make your shot.

Sometimes it's a bit of gamesmanship, you standing there waiting for the player to shoot his spare. He might rush to get done, miss the spare that's a open for the other team.

Just remember "Don't rush and Don't let the other team (or your own team) rush you. Making a good shot and scoring good, makes up for taking a few extra 15-30 second's to make your shot."

Nice summary of the situation, I do wonder how often people ask for a re-rack, I can't really recall seeing anyone ever do it unless the rack is missing a pin or pins.

I think the don't rush reminder is one I and many others need to adhere to better, I find it happens to me once in a while and I also see it in others where we rush and miss a spare we normally wouldn't.

[RobLV1]

I'm one of the few who actually takes an occasional re-rack as both centers where I bowl league have notoriously "iffy" racks. I do it because I've incorporated evaluating the rack into my pre-shot routine. I've seen bowlers throw at racks where either the head pin or the five pin is off spot by nearly an inch, and then they whine about not being able to carry!

[fokai73]

wow 250 average??!!! Last time I saw someone average 250+ in leagues, was when I bowled with and against a HOF bowler. And on a beat down synthetic surface with a wick machine (summit) that broke constantly. That's pretty awesome to watch..... anyway...

I used to be superstitious. If my towel drops to the floor or someone touched it, I had to refold it. Wait for the bowler to pick up a his split. Don't walk between the ball rack and scorers table. these were no no for me. Then about a decade ago, I felt my life was unbalanced mentally. I went back to getting myself centered for personal reasons. I somehow applied this to my bowling since it's the only place I found peace of mind from the outside world. These superstitious just got in the way of my "peace", so I accepted things for what they were and just bowled.

Long story short, over time I learned to accept these things that use to bother me and just bowled. I've performed and done very well with a dropped towel, split on the other lanes, and walking between the ball rack and scorers table. I don't have to bowl angry to bowl well like that lefty PBA dude from the 80's/90's.. what's his name???? Jack or jess stayrook?? I was a pre teen or younger when I remember this guy saying he bowls well when he's angry on TV. He reminded me of the hulk in The incredible hulk TV show.

These superstitions work for many bowlers, but I don't have any superstition anymore when it comes to bowling. Less to worry about. Whatever works for you, do it. Just don't let us wait lol

[J Anderson]

One night, after failing to convert a fairly nasty leave ( either a washout or a big split ) I was asked by my freind Tim, who happens to be a Bronze level coach, "Why did you throw your first ball while Calvin had that split standing on the lane toyour left?" My answer was something like "What split?" I had no idea that Cal had left a split because I don't pay much attention, except that required to observe lane courtesey, to bowlers not on my pair of lanes. If no one on my pair is having luck finding a good line, or if it's a league or tournament where you move to adifferent pairfor the next game, I might look around more, but generaly I have tunnel vision while bowling.

I suppose that if you're prone to thinking that you have to avoid whatever mistake another bowler made, seeing a split standing on an adjacent lane might cause you to tense up and throw a poor shot. Other than that situation, I'm with Rob in thinking this is just a silly superstition.

[foreverincamo]

I won't bowl next to a split, BUT if there's a split on the lanes left and right of me, I will bowl. There just has to be a strike out there because they took the splits.
I also go thru different shirts. I rate them according to scores shot while wearing them. I have a purple shirt that will never be worn bowling again. Shot 498 and 500 while wearing it. It's a rag now.

[DMS]

Slightly different perspective...

I'll usually just lay back and let the other bowler make their attempt at converting the split. The reasoning is that I don't want to interrupt their 'Zen' for the frame. For me, waiting makes me get tight. I always bowl better in practice because the pace is quicker. Bowling with eight people on a pair, and waiting for my turn to cycle back, just slays my physical 'feel'. I like tourneys for this very reason - the pace is usually lightning quick. As such, I don't want to do that to the other bowler... I want to let them have the time they need to work out while their body is still in 'bowl' mode, and get it over with.

Additionally, I like to let a player on their 10th frame go ahead and close the frame before getting up to bowl mine. Again - want to let them keep their energy state to finish the frame.

For me, it's just a matter of human respect. In my perfect world, they'd hang back and let me hit that split without making me pause, watch (or try to ignore) their shot, and then have to get back into my game head.

I never say anything about it, and just go with the flow. However, I have other folks I know that do the same thing when we bowl together / against each other, and they tend to be the kinder individuals at the center.

[foreverincamo]

ROBLV1, our league has a " no re-racks " rule unless the rack is missing a pin. Must be nice to get rid of a bad rack.

[RobLV1]

ROBLV1, our league has a " no re-racks " rule unless the rack is missing a pin. Must be nice to get rid of a bad rack.

A question for bowl1820: Can a league adopt a rule the negates a USBC rule?

[Tony]

wow 250 average??!!! Last time I saw someone average 250+ in leagues, was when I bowled with and against a HOF bowler. And on a beat down synthetic surface with a wick machine (summit) that broke constantly. That's pretty awesome to watch..... anyway...

I used to be superstitious. If my towel drops to the floor or someone touched it, I had to refold it. Wait for the bowler to pick up a his split. Don't walk between the ball rack and scorers table. these were no no for me. Then about a decade ago, I felt my life was unbalanced mentally. I went back to getting myself centered for personal reasons. I somehow applied this to my bowling since it's the only place I found peace of mind from the outside world. These superstitious just got in the way of my "peace", so I accepted things for what they were and just bowled.

Long story short, over time I learned to accept these things that use to bother me and just bowled. I've performed and done very well with a dropped towel, split on the other lanes, and walking between the ball rack and scorers table. I don't have to bowl angry to bowl well like that lefty PBA dude from the 80's/90's.. what's his name???? Jack or jess stayrook?? I was a pre teen or younger when I remember this guy saying he bowls well when he's angry on TV. He reminded me of the hulk in The incredible hulk TV show.

These superstitions work for many bowlers, but I don't have any superstition anymore when it comes to bowling. Less to worry about. Whatever works for you, do it. Just don't let us wait lol

I'm not particularly superstitious, in this case I've just seen it happen too many times, even with really good bowlers. It happens once or twice a night so I would guess the guy who wipes his ball off for 10 seconds every shot probably holds the game up far more than I do !

The 250 guy is fun to watch, and a nice guy, he subs in one of my leagues and is a regular in the other, I've seen him throw 10 or more 300 games, he has well over 100 !

[J Anderson]

A question for bowl1820: Can a league adopt a rule the negates a USBC rule?

I believe that unless the USBC rule includes language that explicitly says that a league may adopt a rule that modifies or even contradicts the USBC rule, the league cannot negate the USBC rule.

[bowl1820]

A question for bowl1820: Can a league adopt a rule the negates a USBC rule?

Since your talking about reracks

this is right on point.


Puzzle #17
The Re-racker – January 7, 2016
How many times can a bowler re-rack? Last week during night league one of the league's high average bowlers decided to re-rack because one of the pins in the rack was slightly off set. This bowler re-racked 8 times for one frame before he got a rack that satisfied him. But here is the kicker he left the 10 pin. Yes some of us were wondering when he was going to actual roll his ball down the lane.
Answer
According to Rule 7a, Pins Improperly set, it is each player’s responsibility to determine if a setup is correct. The player shall insist that any pin(s) incorrectly set be respotted before delivering the ball, otherwise the setup is deemed to be acceptable.
Since it is ultimately the player’s responsibility for an accurate setup, restricting the player from respotting pins would be against USBC rules. However a league or tournament could adopt a rule requiring approval from an official after a bowler has respotted pins X amount of times, a number stated in the rules.
If a machine is consistently setting up pins incorrectly, the bowling center should be notified so adjustments can be made to the machine to avoid situations like you had.

[bowl1820]

I believe that unless the USBC rule includes language that explicitly says that a league may adopt a rule that modifies or even contradicts the USBC rule, the league cannot negate the USBC rule.

AFAIK that's basically it, Unless the rule say's the "Unless otherwise provided by league or tournament rule" or similar you can't change it.

But in regard to the rules that don't say that, going by past experience you can amend or place a limit on them as long as it doesn't violate this is from the rule book:

USBC Rule 100 - Leagues>100a. Qualifications>1. All leagues must meet the following requirements: g. Govern themselves by USBC rules. Other rules may be added, but must not conflict with USBC rules.


In the case of foreverincamo's "our league has a " no re-racks " rule unless the rack is missing a pin." you'd have to check with the USBC rules dept . to see if it actually conflicts with Rule 7a, Pins Improperly set or if it's allowed limitation on reracks.



IMO I say it does conflict since it doesn't allow reracking off spot pins.

Because If you go by what I posted above:
"Since it is ultimately the player’s responsibility for an accurate setup, restricting the player from respotting pins would be against USBC rules."
That league rule appears to conflict with rule 7a

"However a league or tournament could adopt a rule requiring approval from an official after a bowler has respotted pins X amount of times, a number stated in the rules."

The statement above also says you can limit how many times a player reracks without approval. But it doesn't say you can limit what can or can't be respotted.



Note: I just sent a email to the rules dept and asked, so we'll see what they say.

[fordman1]

A question for bowl1820: Can a league adopt a rule the negates a USBC rule?

The only time you can over rule a USBC rule is when it says "unless the league votes to change it" So the next time the head pin is in front of the 2 pin on the 1st ball you can rerack it!
2nd ball is a whole new story. Unless the pin falls down and has to be stood back up you shoot it where it stands.
Ever see the 10 or seven slide across the deck and stand next to the other? If it happens you have an easy 7-10 split conversion.

[bowl1820]

ROBLV1, our league has a " no re-racks " rule unless the rack is missing a pin. Must be nice to get rid of a bad rack.

Okay, Got a reply from the USBC. Going by this reply if the pins are off spot you can rerack it, the league can only limit how many times you do it.

Question:
Can a league have a rule that says "no re-racks " unless the rack is missing a pin."?


Reply


Good Morning ,

This is in regards to your email below.

According to Rule 7a, a player may reset pins if they believe the setup is incorrect. There is no limit on the number of times the setup can be reset during a game or series. However, leagues or tournaments may adopt a rule that would limit the number of re-racks a bowler may use.

Please let me know if you have further questions or concerns.

Jennifer Land
Rules Counselor

Follow up Question:


Thanks for the reply, but it doesn't quite address the original question. Could you elaborate please. The league is limiting what you allowed to rerack not how many times you do it. They say you can only rerack the pins if one is missing. If the pin(s) are just off spot then you are not allowed a rerack.

Can the league set that kind of requirement on reracking?


Reply from the rules dept.:

Good Afternoon,

If the setup is incorrect (off set) or pins are missing, that cannot be limited. What can be limited is excessive re-racking when there are issues with incorrect setup or pins missing. The rule prevents a delay of game.

Jennifer Land
Rules Counselor

[RobLV1]

foreverincamo: I think a league meeting is in order! LOL

[foreverincamo]

It's taking 3 to 3 1/2 hours to get three games done in our league without re-racks. We'd never finish if we would allow them!

[Blacksox1]

Good Afternoon,

If the setup is incorrect (off set) or pins are missing, that cannot be limited. What can be limited is excessive re-racking when there are issues with incorrect setup or pins missing. The rule prevents a delay of game.

Jennifer Land
Rules Counselor

IMO, the word, NON, should be placed in front of, issues.

[foreverincamo]

Well, this is my third season in this league and I've never seen a re-rack even attempted. I've never had anyone even ask if they could have one. I've had racks where I've pointed out offset pins and everyone just says shut up and throw the ball ! I'm guessing since it's not a big money league, no one cares.

[Tony]

The leagues I'm in are not big money, but not sure if that's the difference as I've watched some of the king of the hill tournaments and I can't recall seeing the guys re-rack at all.

I don't think there is any local rule on it although the way some of those guys rib each other during matches and even league I imagine they would get H*ll from some of the other guys for taking re-racks.....of course the lane equipment is pretty good and I'm not so sure there are that many instances where the pins are off spot in the first place.

If we were at a house where the racks were suspect things might be very different, so I'm going with the reason I don't see many re racks is that there isn't a need for them. I'm certainly glad of that, we could be there all night if the racks weren't good.

[RobLV1]

I think that it's more a case of most league bowlers not even bothering to look at the racks before they bowl. The higher the league averages, and the more money that's involved, the more bowlers tend to notice.

[fordman1]

Maybe if the owner cares about bowling the machines are well maintained and reracks are not needed.