Does this make any sense?

[RobLV1]

I have been having some good discussions with bowlers via email, as well as league colleagues. The subject came up of heavy oil balls vs. medium oil balls vs. light oil balls. For an article I'm working on, I have been looking at charts of a lot of typical house shots. Many of these shots feature oil ratios as much as 10:1 (ten times as much oil in the middle part of the lane as there is on the outside). As the USBC requires that there be at least three units of oil from gutter to gutter for the entire length of the pattern, this means that there can be as many as thirty units of oil on the middle part of the lane. So, here's the question: if there are thirty units of oil on the middle part of the lane, this would obviously be considered heavy oil, while the three units of oil on the outside is so little that modern balls don't even recognize that it's there, and the transitional area of heavy to light would be somewhere around ten to fifteen units, doesn't the designation of certain balls as heavy oil, medium oil, or light oil really just depend on the part of the lane the bowler CHOOSES to play rather than a "lane condition"?

[bowl1820]

I have been having some good discussions with bowlers via email, as well as league colleagues. The subject came up of heavy oil balls vs. medium oil balls vs. light oil balls. For an article I'm working on, I have been looking at charts of a lot of typical house shots.

I'm not sure what I want to say here, So I'm breaking this down into parts. Maybe the thought will come out.



Many of these shots feature oil ratios as much as 10:1 (ten times as much oil in the middle part of the lane as there is on the outside).

True, there's a river of oil up the middle of the lane.



As the USBC requires that there be at least three units of oil from gutter to gutter for the entire length of the pattern, this means that there can be as many as thirty units of oil on the middle part of the lane.

Something about this is doesn't sit right. I guess partly because your basing it on "Units" which is a old term these days. When today conditions are looked more at in terms of volume and/or length.

and the ball designations are geared toward that IMO.



So, here's the question: if there are thirty units of oil on the middle part of the lane, this would obviously be considered heavy oil,

No not obviously.


while the three units of oil on the outside is so little that modern balls don't even recognize that it's there, and the transitional area of heavy to light would be somewhere around ten to fifteen units,

What's obvious here is that the middle part of the lane has more oil compared to the 3 unit minimum that was put on the outside in this example, but it wouldn't necessarily be a "heavy oil" pattern compared to other patterns.

Since this is being discussed in units, Using the old definitions a layer of oil 100-plus units would have been considered "Heavy oil" and anything less than 50 units would have been "Light oil.



doesn't the designation of certain balls as heavy oil, medium oil, or light oil really just depend on the part of the lane the bowler CHOOSES to play rather than a "lane condition"?

I'd say no, While yes the middle of the lane has more oil than the outside, that doesn't automatically make that "heavy oil" that you'd necessarily would want to use what is currently considered a heavy oil ball on.

I'm not really happy with how I worded this, but I'll go with it.

I'm taking a guess that the idea your looking at is to maybe have players look at (and choose) balls by where their used (on the lane), instead of how they are currently being perceived to be used by the designation's currently being used to describe them (the balls) .

[KYDave]

Glad this was brought up. I've never really understood what is really considered heavy/medium/light. I can tell you when I throw a heavy oil ball if is too aggressive because it over hooks or lays down in the back. I can tell you when I throw my medium oil ball if it seems to blow thru the breakpoint and never make it back up to the pocket and want something stronger.
I guess I use the "oil designation" more to compare the balls I have versus what the lanes are actually "considered". And add to that, maybe the length of the pattern has a lot to do with it as well.
I always ask the volume and length and it seems as if it is guarded like the coca-cola recipe. "its a typical house shot". There is one center I go the guy actually knows the volume and length, but nothing else. I suppose most people don't really care? And as many places as I go, I don't think there is such a thing as typical anymore.

[1VegasBowler]

The lane conditions are all about the oil pattern from the start of the game until it is finished.

The THS while not standard on length, it is as far as volume goes. This is why so many bowlers like playing at the 10 board, and try to stay there all night. Those bowlers who have a decent arsenal can change from an aggressive ball to a less aggressive ball as the night wears on because the aggressive balls are normally a non-polished ball where they absorb the oil, so there's less carry down of the oil to the backend.

A polished ball will also absorb oil, but not near the rate as a non polished ball. Plastic and urethane don't absorb at all.

The conditions where it concerns heavy oil on the THS is down the middle. They type of ball you choose will determine whether the ball is going to skid the entire length or make a turn to the pocket. The heavy oil ball is what you want for these conditions because they will certainly make a turn once they hit that friction, and depending on the manufacturer, it could be a smooth break or it could be a violent one.

While we all play on a THS, it's the PBA Experience leagues or any sport pattern league where the heavy, medium & light oil becomes very pronounced. That not only includes the length, but volume as well. And these patterns are no picnic! lol

And if you have previously bowled on any of the animal patterns and think you have it figured out, forget it! All of those patterns have changed within the last few months, whether it's length and/or volume.

Knowing what the pattern is is crucial to knowing what ball(s) you're going to use, and that includes the THS since they can vary from 38-42ft (here in Vegas), and there could be a few out there that are shorter than 38ft. Do you think that an aggressive, heavy oil ball is going to stay straight up the 15 board on a 36ft pattern? Ummm, nope! lol

You always have to figure when the transition is going to start affecting your shot. If you plan on playing the same line, chances are you're going to have to change, especially if there are other bowlers on the same line as you are. If you don't change your ball, you better find another line to play or your first ball is going to over react.

[J Anderson]

Knowing what the pattern is is crucial to knowing what ball(s) you're going to use, and that includes the THS since they can vary from 38-42ft (here in Vegas), and there could be a few out there that are shorter than 38ft. Do you think that an aggressive, heavy oil ball is going to stay straight up the 15 board on a 36ft pattern? Ummm, nope! lol

Knowing the pattern is just a start. It is far more important to be able to read the lane since the lane surface and topography trump the pattern every time. If you go in with a fixed idea that the pattern is 37', the ball has to exit the oil on the 6th board, you may have a hard time if the lane surface is a very hard synthetic with less friction than you're used to, or there is a dish or crown in the lane surface that either helps or hurts the ball getting back to the the center of the lane.

[1VegasBowler]

Knowing the pattern is just a start. It is far more important to be able to read the lane since the lane surface and topography trump the pattern every time. If you go in with a fixed idea that the pattern is 37', the ball has to exit the oil on the 6th board, you may have a hard time if the lane surface is a very hard synthetic with less friction than you're used to, or there is a dish or crown in the lane surface that either helps or hurts the ball getting back to the the center of the lane.

You are absolutely correct, but I wasn't going to go there only because the OP was talking about the light, medium & heavy oil balls for the conditions.

When there's a Major involved, the PBA & USBC requires that a lane mapper be used to gather all of the information you just mentioned (except for the type of synthetics of the lanes). That lane mapper is so precise it's unreal, and the host center must bring every little detail to spec.

I wondered why our USBC didn't have one of these for when we do our lane certifications until I found out what it costs! lol

[bowl1820]

FYI: For those that don't know, what a "Unit" of oil is.

A "Unit" is a measurement of thickness and is 0.0167 cubic centimeters of oil evenly spread over a 1 sq. ft. surface, which equates to a film of oil about 7 millionths of an inch thick.

A sheet of typing paper is about 400 units thick

[ChuckR]

We are talking Volumes and Patterns. The one thing missing is the oil itself. Kegal Ice and Fire are different on how they hold up and react over time. The Texas Station in Las Vegas uses a Brunswick oil that holds up better for them as they are in the basement. When that oil does transition, the shot is shot.

[1VegasBowler]

We are talking Volumes and Patterns. The one thing missing is the oil itself. Kegal Ice and Fire are different on how they hold up and react over time. The Texas Station in Las Vegas uses a Brunswick oil that holds up better for them as they are in the basement. When that oil does transition, the shot is shot.

I don't necessarily agree with that.

I play there on Wednesday nights and I can play 15-10 all night without any problems. I have also played straight up the 10 on occasion without any issues, and I use heavy oil equipment with the Ultimate Nirvana and the Vandal Smash and they are both drilled very differently.

[ChuckR]

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I don't necessarily agree with that.

I play there on Wednesday nights and I can play 15-10 all night without any problems. I have also played straight up the 10 on occasion without any issues, and I use heavy oil equipment with the Ultimate Nirvana and the Vandal Smash and they are both drilled very differently.
This MAY be true if they give you a fresh pattern. Try it Saturday afternoon after families have bowled with bumpers. Even the manager said the shot goes away after the oil has transitioned. This is not unusual for Texas, Suncoast, Gold Coast and Orleans.

[1VegasBowler]

This MAY be true if they give you a fresh pattern. Try it Saturday afternoon after families have bowled with bumpers. Even the manager said the shot goes away after the oil has transitioned. This is not unusual for Texas, Suncoast, Gold Coast and Orleans.

I play on fresh patterns at Texas Station and The Orleans.

I've played at Goal Coast and it has the longest pattern (it did last winter) at 42ft. The oil isn't the problem there, it's elsewhere.

[RobLV1]

This thread has taken an interesting turn. I have bowled with both of you, and you both exemplify my original thought. Neither of you will vary far inside from the second arrow, so you are both retreating to the comfort zone of talking about pattern lengths, oil types, etc.. It's interesting how many seven pins are missed to the right by right handed bowlers using very aggressive bowling balls and trying to hook them through the puddle in the middle at any of the centers you mention. It's on the outside of the pattern that all of the usual thinking applies, not in the middle.

[1VegasBowler]

This thread has taken an interesting turn. I have bowled with both of you, and you both exemplify my original thought. Neither of you will vary far inside from the second arrow, so you are both retreating to the comfort zone of talking about pattern lengths, oil types, etc.. It's interesting how many seven pins are missed to the right by right handed bowlers using very aggressive bowling balls and trying to hook them through the puddle in the middle at any of the centers you mention. It's on the outside of the pattern that all of the usual thinking applies, not in the middle.

It has been quite a while since we've bowled together, and I am quite different now than before.

The normal conditions we encounter don't require me to to go any farther than playing 15-10. I also have 4 more balls to choose from now compared to then, and all with different dual angle drillings.

There are the rare occasions where playing 20-15, 20-10, 25-15 or 25-10 can be advantageous for me. I can also adjust my speeds and my wrist as well. And now that my elbow is killing me, using my 14lb balls are pretty much out of the question for now.

My comfort zone has expanded and I'm not afraid to change what I'm doing in the middle of the game.

I certainly won't profess that I'm better than anybody because I know I'm not. But by making myself more versatile, my comfort zone has expanded along with my confidence.

How will this equate to a good showing at the PBA 50 Regional I'll attend in March? After knowing what the pattern is, I hope it turns out well because it's going to get extremely difficult after the 2nd or 3rd game.

[RobLV1]

My point was that those of you who I know fairly well all immediately reverted to your comfort zones not on the lanes, but in the concepts in which you believe. You and Chuck to discussions about pattern lengths and oil types, and bowl1820 into research and analysis. My whole point with this thread and with much of my writing is to try and get bowlers to think outside the box in terms of their base beliefs about the game. The game has changed so much in the past twenty years, and I see, on a daily basis, how beliefs that bowlers stubbornly cling to, keep them from attaining their goals in the sport. A perfect example is the idea of carry down. Bowlers adamantly refuse to acknowledge that carry down is rarely a factor in determining ball reaction in modern bowling, because to do so, would be to question their very beliefs about the sport. I can't tell you how many times I've had discussions with bowlers on the subject where I've quoted the scientific testing the proves what I'm saying, only to hear, "Well, you have your opinion, but I believe that carry down is still a factor in determining ball reaction." This is equivalent to, "Well, I've seen the photographs from the space station, but I still believe the world is flat." I really don't care whether bowlers continue to believe that you can designate bowling balls as being best suited for heavy oil, medium oil, or light oil. What I do care about is their willingness to question their long-standing beliefs, because they might have changed.

[Tony]

I can understand the point you are after, moving away from old outdated logic, but I wonder then, have you given thought on a new, better more valuable way to rate and categorize the balls, that would be more useful to the average bowler trying to choose new equipment ?

[RobLV1]

I can understand the point you are after, moving away from old outdated logic, but I wonder then, have you given thought on a new, better more valuable way to rate and categorize the balls, that would be more useful to the average bowler trying to choose new equipment ?

I've been writing about a better way for years. It entails learning the basics about cores: symmetry, RG, Differential, and overall shape. It also entails accepting the practice of limiting your layouts to one or two, and developing a willingness to change the surface of the ball to get the exact reaction that you are looking for, and accepting that there is very little difference between solid, pearl, and hybrid versions of the same cover material. Once you have done this, choose a ball based on the core, use your standard layout, and change the surface to tailor the reaction, and you're on your way.

[1VegasBowler]

I wasn't trying to be cranky or to start an argument in any way my friend.

But when it comes to changing the surface of the ball when you only have a couple of balls can be tricky, and it's one of the things I don't like to do. And depending on who you speak with, you'll get pros and cons about it.

Of the 7 that I have, the only surface I don't really have is a 1000.

The problem that arises with changing the surface, is, you can't make the changes during competition, and depending on how many games you have to bowl makes it almost impossible.

We know what's going to happen during league play, so it becomes a non-issue. But what about during tournament play? This is where it becomes impossible.

Whether it's 3, 4, 6, 8 or more games you have to bowl, making a surface change isn't going to happen. While the USBC does allow changes between games in certain tournaments, the time that it takes to do so isn't realistic for it to happen. And the PBA doesn't allow it to happen at any time during competition.

I'm just of the opinion, that, it is easier to change you ball than it is to change the surface.

[RobLV1]

Judging by your comment that of the seven you have, the only surface that you don't have is 1000, I really think that you are missing the point. You don't need every different surface unless you have seven of the same bowling ball. I'm also not recommending constantly changing your surfaces, unless you find, as I have that certain centers respond better to more surface, and others respond to less. No, the idea is to take whatever ball you buy, based on the core characteristics, use your standard layout, a adjust the surface to one that works on the ball for you. Personally, I don't think I have any ball with more than a 3000 abrasion surface on it, just because with my ball speed and rotation, more surface doesn't work. If I came upon a condition where I needed more surface, I certainly wouldn't hesitate to put more on.

[1VegasBowler]

My first out of the bag at the Orleans and Texas are the Ultimate Nirvana and Vandal Smash. While both are at 4000, one is drilled pin down.

With my elbow hurting me now I have to use my 12 pounders, so I start with my Thug Unruly which is at 2000. And if I need to change, I can go to my original Vandal which is 500 with compound.

If I was smart, I would use the original Vandal from start to finish because it doesn't over read the friction and I can play the 10 all night without any problems. I'll know more during the 10 min of practice when I bowl Wednesday night.

[J Anderson]

My point was that those of you who I know fairly well all immediately reverted to your comfort zones not on the lanes, but in the concepts in which you believe. You and Chuck to discussions about pattern lengths and oil types, and bowl1820 into research and analysis. My whole point with this thread and with much of my writing is to try and get bowlers to think outside the box in terms of their base beliefs about the game. The game has changed so much in the past twenty years, and I see, on a daily basis, how beliefs that bowlers stubbornly cling to, keep them from attaining their goals in the sport. A perfect example is the idea of carry down. Bowlers adamantly refuse to acknowledge that carry down is rarely a factor in determining ball reaction in modern bowling, because to do so, would be to question their very beliefs about the sport. I can't tell you how many times I've had discussions with bowlers on the subject where I've quoted the scientific testing the proves what I'm saying, only to hear, "Well, you have your opinion, but I believe that carry down is still a factor in determining ball reaction." This is equivalent to, "Well, I've seen the photographs from the space station, but I still believe the world is flat." I really don't care whether bowlers continue to believe that you can designate bowling balls as being best suited for heavy oil, medium oil, or light oil. What I do care about is their willingness to question their long-standing beliefs, because they might have changed.

In previous posts you have cited one article by Joe Slowinski, which cites one study done at the Kegel training center. As I understand it, in medecine, a scientific breakthrough, a new drug or a new method of treatment is not accepted on the basis of a single study, but must be verified by other independant studies.

While I have generally had good results moving in to find more oil and advising others to move in to use the oil left in the middle of the lane, in my area there are still leagues where enough bowlers are using plastic and urethane to make the statement that there is no such thing as carrydown false.

[RobLV1]

Considering that Slowinski is one of the very elite group of about 30 Gold Level Coaches in the world, and has long been affiliated with the Kegel Center, accepted to be the preeiminent experts on everything oil, I take his word that carry down is a thing of the past. To quote his article, The Myth of Carrydown, from the October 2008 issue of Bowling This Month, "Unless you come to a bowling center after hours of open play or a birthday party, your change of ball motion is not a result of carry down. Rather, oil absorption has significantly changed how lanes break down." That is the view of the world from the space station, and the world is NOT flat!

[J Anderson]

Considering that Slowinski is one of the very elite group of about 30 Gold Level Coaches in the world, and has long been affiliated with the Kegel Center, accepted to be the preeiminent experts on everything oil, I take his word that carry down is a thing of the past. To quote his article, The Myth of Carrydown, from the October 2008 issue of Bowling This Month, "Unless you come to a bowling center after hours of open play or a birthday party, your change of ball motion is not a result of carry down. Rather, oil absorption has significantly changed how lanes break down." That is the view of the world from the space station, and the world is NOT flat!

I just reread the article. Joe cites one study that was done in one center with 36 participants,that was done nine years ago. I agree that the results are striking. I however have no idea if any one else has tried to recreate this study. If this were something serious, like finding a better treatment for heart disease, results like this would be a prompt for more studies. Since it's only bowling I guess we just should accept the word of the authorities.

We've had numerous space flights, in addition to the view from the space station that confirm that the earth is round, something that the ancient greeks managed to figure out over 2000 years ago. I am not trying to say that carry down of oil still occurs to the point where we need to play the lanes like it's still 1984. I'm just saying that a single study, no matter how prestigious the institution involved, does not make a scientificly proven fact. The result may be true, but unless the results are reproducable by others it's not proven.

[bowl1820]

I just reread the article. Joe cites one study that was done in one center with 36 participants,that was done nine years ago. I agree that the results are striking. I however have no idea if any one else has tried to recreate this study.

If you want to see a little more recent (2012) study take a look at this Kegel article:

Breakdown and Carrydown - By The Numbers
Click here for Breakdown and Carrydown - By The Numbers (http://www.kegel.net/wpa/2016/3/14/42bjrlavlk4laa1y6p3pf0kdwuggrh)

That article was a follow up to this one:

Breakdown and Carrydown – Then and Now
Click here for Breakdown and Carrydown – Then and Now (http://www.kegel.net/wpa/ted09)


You might also want to take a look at:

Oil Pattern Depletion
Click here for Oil Pattern Depletion (http://www.kegel.net/wpa/2016/3/14/qo5zq54m1ige9mszaslj5xtg4sf15t)

[RobLV1]

Bowl1820: Thank you for the articles: very interesting. I think that it is significant that there was more oil depletion at the end of the pattern among the women players than the mens because of the similarity of their styles. Does this sound at all like house bowlers who constantly congregate around the second arrow? Sure does to me!

[J Anderson]

Thanks Bowl 1820. Were I Mike White I might argue that all the studies were by Kegel and therefore not independently confirmed. However I doubt that anyone else would attempt to repeat these studies, and so concede that carrydown is no longer a factor to consider for the majority of league bowlers as the lanes transition.

Rob, it was interesting to note that one of the articles mentioned that because of people using non-flaring balls to shoot the seven pin, carrydown may affect lefties. Even when I bowl in the local sport league, I would say that almost half the bowlers attempt to hook at left side spares. In my other leagues the only bowlers, other than myself, that throw spare balls at the 7 pin are those who only own a plastic ball. I know that my experience is too limited to be statistically significant but I would tend to have the opinion that even left-handers don't have to worry about carry down.

[ChuckR]

I can't locate the Youtube by Norm Duke where he talked about bowling with 2 other guys. The used different lines and styles. One was Wes Mallot. The article dealt with bowling with these guys resulted with him having to change balls or lines as the lanes transitioned. This transitioning, per our discussion here, MAY BE oil movement or oil reduction because of other bowlers.
ROBLV1 has pointed out to me that certain teams leave the lanes with drier boards and balls can jump(grab/slip)
Question: My spare ball is a White Dot which doesn't hook. WHERE DOES THE OIL GO when I shoot a 10 pin cross alley.

[J Anderson]

I can't locate the Youtube by Norm Duke where he talked about bowling with 2 other guys. The used different lines and styles. One was Wes Mallot. The article dealt with bowling with these guys resulted with him having to change balls or lines as the lanes transitioned. This transitioning, per our discussion here, MAY BE oil movement or oil reduction because of other bowlers.
ROBLV1 has pointed out to me that certain teams leave the lanes with drier boards and balls can jump(grab/slip)
Question: My spare ball is a White Dot which doesn't hook. WHERE DOES THE OIL GO when I shoot a 10 pin cross alley.

A White Dot will start re-depositing a bit of the oil it has picked up once it gets past the end of the pattern. I suspect at least some oil clings to the surface all the way back through the ball return since I've picked up a number of house balls over the years that felt positively slimy.

[bowl1820]

I can't locate the Youtube by Norm Duke where he talked about bowling with 2 other guys. The used different lines and styles. One was Wes Mallot. The article dealt with bowling with these guys resulted with him having to change balls or lines as the lanes transitioned. This transitioning, per our discussion here, MAY BE oil movement or oil reduction because of other bowlers.
ROBLV1 has pointed out to me that certain teams leave the lanes with drier boards and balls can jump(grab/slip)
Question: My spare ball is a White Dot which doesn't hook. WHERE DOES THE OIL GO when I shoot a 10 pin cross alley.

Norm Duke, Wes Mallot & Mike Machuga

Norm Duke 19 Lane Transition

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bYJ9iGA16pk


Screencap excerpt:
https://s5.postimg.org/n29bbo4jr/Norm_Duke_19_Lane_Transition_mp4_20170130_123718.j pg

[ChuckR]

Thanks This is the one I referred to.

[RobLV1]

The one thing that is not addressed for the most part is that the streaks of oil that are past the end of the pattern are comprised of less than five units of oil, and modern reactive balls don't react to anything less than eight units. The streaks are there, but in the great majority of cases, they have no effect. Here's the thing: humans have a tendency to think that every exception to every rule applies to them. If you believe that carry down is affecting your ball motion, then 95% of your adjustments will not work. If you believe that carry down is never a factor, then 95% of your adjustments will work. What makes better sense for you?