Tracking over thumb

[drlawsoniii]

What would cause me to track over the thumb with one ball and not another. I feel like my release is the same with both but the one is all over the thumb.

[KYDave]

Is one of them pin down?

Do you normally track high anyway?

[drlawsoniii]

The pin down is right under my ring finger. It's the one that I'm tracking the thumb

[KYDave]

Yep it's the layout. I track high and anything pin down I track over also.

Edit: have you looked at the track lines on your other ball? Are they close to thumb and far from fingers? You could be turning your hand really early also.

[fokai73]

I track high and my pin down balls track over the thumb. If I increase my tilt I avoid tracking over my thumb.

I never listened to ppl's advice, "avoid pin down layouts".... I had a ball with pin below my middle finger, pin 5.25" to pap, drill angle 45*.....

I bowled on a broken down world pattern and this storm t road was the only ball in my bag that could play the 5th arrow. This pin down storm solid helped me cash. And at another tourney, a RICO Fired up also helped me cash too (rico on a pearl? Lol) ..

If you're able to increase your tilt, u can avoid clipping the thumb hole.

[RobLV1]

If you draw a line from your PAP through the pin, it will give you the position of the bow tie. A pin down layout will move the bow tie down far enough that you will clip the thumb hole. Solution: avoid pin down layouts. Look for balls with smooth reactions rather than trying to smooth out a reaction with a pin down layout.

[drlawsoniii]

If you draw a line from your PAP through the pin, it will give you the position of the bow tie. A pin down layout will move the bow tie down far enough that you will clip the thumb hole. Solution: avoid pin down layouts. Look for balls with smooth reactions rather than trying to smooth out a reaction with a pin down layout.

So Rob, given that unfortunately my PSO drilled it that way, is there anything I can do other than plugging and re-drilling? Would putting an x - hole in the ball help decrease the flare enough to salvage the performance? It's the DV8 Freakshow solid that I won on here, I like the ball and how it rolls, it's already pretty aggressive so it could use being dialed back as I pair it with my Trident.

[bowl1820]

One thing to note is that the drawing the line to find the bowtie location is just a general guideline for approximating the top bowtie location. And was meant to help the keep the bowler from flaring over the finger holes.

So moving the bow tie higher might not necessarily keep you from rolling over the thumb hole.

A rule of thumb is:
Running over finger holes, it's layout.
Running over thumb hole, it's release.

So if your hitting the thumb hole right at the start, it's probably a release issue.

So check your release and fit on that ball, because changes in your fit can affect your release some.

Another option is adding a X-hole in the right location it could produce enough flare to pull it off the thumb sooner if not completely.
(For example this can help on Symmetrical balls with low differentials when they track over the thumb.)

Flare Safe Zone Guideline

This had to do with what was called the Flare Safe zone, if you had a high track and you put the pin too low. You ran the risk of the ball flaring over your finger holes.

The old guideline on what you did was draw a line from your initial PAP through your Ring finger hole to the track. (This IMO showed basically where your release would cause the bowtie to be.)

Then If you placed the pin above and to the right of that imaginary line (on high track players) it minimized the chances of the ball tracking (flaring) over the finger holes.

If you placed the pin below that imaginary line you ran a greater risk of the ball tracking (flaring) over the finger holes.

You would also see "draw a line from the PAP through the pin to the track. To approximate the top bowtie location." used in conjunction with it. (This IMO showed basically where the ball layout +release would most likely cause the bowtie to be.)

This is a quote from Ebonite that relates to this also:

"If you draw a line from the positive axis point, through the locator pin to your ball track, that spot would constitute the pivot for your track flare bow tie. When the track flares, it moves closer to the fingers and farther from the thumb so this causes your ball to roll over the fingers.

You should ONLY drill a pin in the flare safe zone referenced in our documentation. That zone is above a line from your positive axis point to your ring finger. Anything below that line raises your roll especially in asymmetrical bowling products."

According to a MO post he said that's more related to how older balls tracked, That with today's more dynamic cores the bowtie locations have been altered somewhat. He said:
"On modern balls the top bowtie is usually about an 1 1/2" to 3" above the line(on the track) from the PAP through the pin. The bowtie(location?) is far less defined than it used to be because of the stronger dynamics of modern cores."

[RobLV1]

Common sense says that if your top bowtie location down, it will also affect how close the flare rings come to the thumb hole. No, drilling an extra hole will not get the flare off of the thumb hole. The good news is that plugging and re drilling does not change the way the ball reacts, so change it to a pin up drilling and get yourself a ball that will work for you.

[bowl1820]

Common sense says that if your top bowtie location down, it will also affect how close the flare rings come to the thumb hole.

That's not necessarily true, if the bowtie is just moved along the Initial track. The bowtie location has changed but not the initial track, unless you've made some other change along the way also.

Example I've tracked right near thumb hole for years and have had low pin positions which caused the ball to flare over the fingerholes. Then when I moved the pin up to stop it, it had little to no affect on where the initial track was in relation to the thumbhole. It just moved the bowtie location farther along the initial track.


No, drilling an extra hole will not get the flare off of the thumb hole.

Note: Initially rolling over the thumbhole and flaring over the thumbhole are two different things. I'm assuming he's Initially rolling over the thumbhole.

The idea by adding the x-hole to the ball is it could help produce a little more flare in the air. So that the hole has moved enough so that the initial track doesn't start across the thumb hole or that it at least comes off the hole faster .(note this is not my idea just one that has been mentioned before in relation to the same problem in others)

This is not to say it's a guarantee it would, just that it might in some cases.


The good news is that plugging and re drilling does not change the way the ball reacts, so change it to a pin up drilling and get yourself a ball that will work for you.

The main thing is look for release issues first, then if none found look at plugging and redrilling. Because if it's release issue, plugging and redrilling probably won't help.

[fokai73]

bowl1820 is right too.. release can be a factor.

I'd go into detail of my experience, but i'll just sit back and read what others have to say.... but robs statement "no", X-hole wouldn't help has me smiling.....

Rob you said no, but with no explanation why it wouldn't work. interesting...

[chip82901]

I have a pitch blue that I initially track over the middle finger on, as I try to roll it with less axis tilt, trying to get it to read a little earlier. This is the only ball of mine that does this, and it is expected. Being a 2-handed bowler, I personally try to avoid pin down as I usually need length and angle, not early read, on anything other than urethane

[drlawsoniii]

That's not necessarily true, if the bowtie is just moved along the Initial track. The bowtie location has changed but not the initial track, unless you've made some other change along the way also.

Example I've tracked right near thumb hole for years and have had low pin positions which caused the ball to flare over the fingerholes. Then when I moved the pin up to stop it, it had little to no affect on where the initial track was in relation to the thumbhole. It just moved the bowtie location farther along the initial track.



Note: Initially rolling over the thumbhole and flaring over the thumbhole are two different things. I'm assuming he's Initially rolling over the thumbhole.

The idea by adding the x-hole to the ball is it could help produce a little more flare in the air. So that the hole has moved enough so that the initial track doesn't start across the thumb hole or that it at least comes off the hole faster .(note this is not my idea just one that has been mentioned before in relation to the same problem in others)

This is not to say it's a guarantee it would, just that it might in some cases.



The main thing is look for release issues first, then if none found look at plugging and redrilling. Because if it's release issue, plugging and redrilling probably won't help.

Ok so with all this information, why does only this ball do it? Granted my snaplock doesnt have the pin down its up and to the right a little, i can switch back and forth every other ball with the same release and never roll over the thumb with the snaplock.

[chip82901]

Are you flaring over it or is it the initial track that is going over the thumb? If it's flaring over the thumb on a pin down, could just be a slight miss by your PSO on drilling. If it is initial track, then it is your release (as in reduced axis tilt).

[drlawsoniii]

Im not sure it sounds like i'm rolling over it from the moment it hits the lane.

[chip82901]

If that's the case, then its your release. It may feel the same, but only way to really know would be to take a video of directly behind you. Make sure you can slow the video down or go frame by frame.

[bowl1820]

Ok so with all this information, why does only this ball do it?

I can't say, that's why you have to check.

You start with release because that is simplest place to start, you also check fit spans, pitches etc.

Once those are eliminated, then you talk to the PSO about adjusting the layout.

[RobLV1]

bowl1820 is right too.. release can be a factor.

I'd go into detail of my experience, but i'll just sit back and read what others have to say.... but robs statement "no", X-hole wouldn't help has me smiling.....

Rob you said no, but with no explanation why it wouldn't work. interesting...

... because over the years I've seen it tried without success. I'm glad you're in a good mood. Keep smiling!

[fokai73]

... because over the years I've seen it tried without success. I'm glad you're in a good mood. Keep smiling!


I Saved on plug on re-drill when a large weight hole was placed down my VAL. Doing this helped move the flare away from the thumb hole on my hy-road. This has worked in others balls as well.

When local PSO said "Don't do it" I wanted to see for myself. So I called/text two friends of mine (these guys are not "joe the PSO guy" but are in/were in the industry) to see what were my options.. They were right about the large hole down my VAL.

your experience is not going to be the same for others.....

[Tony]

I have a Hustle with a weak drilling and have only used it few times but noticed a couple of times when I flattened it out and threw a straight ball it sounded like it rolled over the thumb, will have to confirm that next time I use it. I would much rather add a weight hole than change the drilling, so would be worth trying.....

[drlawsoniii]

Got to the lanes on saturday morning (big mistake the place was a mad house, and the PSO was drowning) I was able to talk to the PSO and he suggested putting in a weight hole. We did that and it didn't do a thing, I asked him what he thought we should do (short of plugging and re-drilling), and he decided to take it down to 800 then to 2000 with a polish on it. What a difference this made. Instead of rolling over the dead center of the thumb, i'm just barely clipping it now. I'm going to throw it on Thursday night during league and see how it does. He said that if i'm still clipping the edge we can try bumping it up and he'd do it for free, since I already paid him the 8 bucks for the weight hole and first sanding job. The good news was I strung 5 strikes together in the first 7 balls that I threw with it after the polishing.

[bowl1820]

Just curious but where did he put the weight hole?

[drlawsoniii]

Just curious but where did he put the weight hole?

I'd have to look at it, and maybe include a picture as I really dont know a whole lot about how to describe the location.