Does rev rate determine how deep you can play?

[Hammer]

If you have a rev rate of 250 would you be able to play deep with your slide foot on board 35? It seems like you wouldn't be able to swing it out to say the 5 board at the breakpoint and have it come back with much energy to the pocket. Whereas if you have a rev rate of 375 to 425 you might have a better chance. If you have a 250 rev rate playing on board 35 with your slide foot you might have a better chance if your breakpoint was at board 25. This would also depend what type of ball and surface you were using. So it seems low rev rate wouldn't be able to play as deep as someone with a high rev rate. So what are your thoughts on this?

[mishatx]

Isn't it really about matching rev rate to ball speed? Although I suppose there's a lower limit for both where playing deep just won't work...

[Hammer]

Isn't it really about matching rev rate to ball speed? Although I suppose there's a lower limit for both where playing deep just won't work...

If you had a 250 rev rate and were playing deep you would have to have a slower ball speed for the ball to have time to react once it hit the dry area.

[1VegasBowler]

If you're low speed and low rev like I am (14 & 250), it is very possible to slide at the 35, but you have to be very accurate when you release the ball or you're asking for big trouble! lol

[chip82901]

You have to find friction. For a lower rev guy, you need to find friction sooner, so the ball will make the turn. For a rev/speed dominate player, its all about keeping it in the oil as much as possible. So, for a guy that is a 250 rev rate, he may have the same break point, but he will need less time to get it there, if that makes any sense. For instance, you don't see WRWJ moving deep inside, because his rev rate doesn't allow him to play there. Instead, you will see him straighten up and find the friction a bit earlier to get the ball into a roll. Where as you see someone like Belmo or Sean Rash playing deeper inside, as with their rev rate, they can't find the friction early as it will result in disaster

[fokai73]

You have to find friction. For a lower rev guy, you need to find friction sooner, so the ball will make the turn. For a rev/speed dominate player, its all about keeping it in the oil as much as possible. So, for a guy that is a 250 rev rate, he may have the same break point, but he will need less time to get it there, if that makes any sense. For instance, you don't see WRWJ moving deep inside, because his rev rate doesn't allow him to play there. Instead, you will see him straighten up and find the friction a bit earlier to get the ball into a roll. Where as you see someone like Belmo or Sean Rash playing deeper inside, as with their rev rate, they can't find the friction early as it will result in disaster


Low speed low rev bowlers need to find friction sooner? how are you reading the lane and ball motion? is your statement for bowlers who's rev/speed match up? or for slow speed slow revs?

[chip82901]

I don't think what I am meaning is coming out right. What I am saying is, a lower speed, lower rev bowler will need to play further right (or left for you south paws) than a high rev player would have to. Obviously, if you have high revs/low speed, you're going to have to move inside. But, your lower rev/lower speed players will have to play on a THS somewhere around 17-20 at the arrows and get it out to the friction. Where as your high speed/high rev player will be still playing that same break point, just with a much bigger shape from being inside at the arrows (most between 25-20).

[bowl1820]

You should read Rob's article on Bowling This Month called Playing Without a Parachute: How to learn to play deep

https://www.bowlingthismonth.com/bowling-tips/playing-without-a-parachute/
(you can read the whole article without a subscription)

Excerpt:


There was a bowler to my left who threw one of the most memorable games I have ever seen. He shot 279 playing the 4th arrow and never getting the ball outside the 15th board down lane. This was not unusual except for the fact that this bowler was not the usual “cranker” used to playing a line like this.

He was a low rev player who relied not on power, but on accuracy, to play that inside line so effectively. I’ve since become friends with Terry Leong. I remind him about the PBA telecasts where the announcers talk about “ten in the pit” where that day his game was “three on the deck!” Terry has used his accuracy and ability to play inside lines and become a senior bowler with a reputation to always be a fac – tor in tournaments including the Senior U.S. Open and the Senior Masters.



and here's a quote from Ron Clifton:


One thing that lower rev players often don't understand is that it's higher rev rates that force bowlers deeper and deeper. A lower rev player can pretty much stay put game after game, and the higher rev player may have to move ten boards left.

The lower rev player's ball can just skid and skid and skid through the heads, and the higher rev player's ball is reading at his toe. There are good and bad things about both styles. Sean Rash doesn't move over to the first arrow and fluff it up the boards like Duke and Walter because he can't, even if he wanted too.

[1VegasBowler]

I know Terry Leong as well and he is a very good bowler.

[RobLV1]

At the Master's a few weeks ago, I had a very interesting discussion with Martin Larson on this very subject. He told me that just because he doesn't have a high rev rate, he can still play the entire lane, from gutter to gutter. He relies on accuracy. The key is in the original post above. You don't have to "swing it out to five board" to play deep... you just move everything, your feet your target, and the breakpoint to the left. In doing this, you don't have to "find friction early". On a 40' pattern, there is twenty feet of friction past the pattern. The difference between house bowlers and pro bowlers is that the house bowler sees the lane from side to side, while the pro bowler sees the lane from front to back. Once you learn to do this, you can play any part of the lane that you choose.

[fokai73]

To Hammer, if the slide foot for is on 35 for a classic bowler type, and he finishes his slide on 32nd board at the foul line for example. His lay down would be around 26 or 25 board. Then the ball crosses the 4th arrow or just inside it, and you said break point at 25?? I'm a bit confused.

[Tony]

One other factor that would come into play is the lane surface, I am toward the lower side with speed and revs and can usually play 20-25 throwing 10-12, but a couple of weeks ago the lanes were exceptionally dry and I was playing out at the gutter throwing between 3rd and 4th arrow to get to the pocket.
Otherwise I tend to agree with the general idea that if I'm not forced conditions to play deeper in most cases I'm going to score better taking advantage of the line I can play that's a little straighter to the pocket.

[J Anderson]

To Hammer, if the slide foot for is on 35 for a classic bowler type, and he finishes his slide on 32nd board at the foul line for example. His lay down would be around 26 or 25 board. Then the ball crosses the 4th arrow or just inside it, and you said break point at 25?? I'm a bit confused.

It's always dangerous to assume where someone's slide foot will wind up. While many bowlers who play staight up the boards do tend to their feet straight ahead, in other words without a crossover step, until the last step, when the slide foot drifts 3 or 4 boards right for balance, there are those who have a cross over step and slide within a board of where they started.

I'm confused too about 25 as a break point. That would only work as a break point for someone throwing a back-up ball.

[fokai73]

It's always dangerous to assume where someone's slide foot will wind up. While many bowlers who play staight up the boards do tend to their feet straight ahead, in other words without a crossover step, until the last step, when the slide foot drifts 3 or 4 boards right for balance, there are those who have a cross over step and slide within a board of where they started.

I'm confused too about 25 as a break point. That would only work as a break point for someone throwing a back-up ball.

I was generalizing. I had a 1 to 1 foot work and used this example for my reply. today I have a negative 1 drift. I know of bowlers who drift up to 12 boards and she carries a deuce average, top female in our scratch league. A buddy doesn't crossover until he slides. repeats his wacky foot work and also carries close to 220 average. both are low rev players.

[fokai73]

btw, good article/link.....

I should renew my BTM subscription.....

[Hammer]

I made a mistake on that 25 board being the breakpoint, I meant the 15 board being the breakpoint for slow speed and 250 rev players. This is if this type of player has their slide foot on board 35.

[foreverincamo]

I don't have a high rev rate, but if the oil pattern makes me play deep, I'm still able to do it. It's a matter of speed control and getting the ball to skid as far as I need

[DMS]

I don't have a high rev rate either, but if the pattern is short, I can play inside with no trouble at all. At the last tournament I played, they had a 32 foot pattern and I was shooting between 15 and 20 at the arrows, with break point around 5 to 8 board. Had to throw it real fast even with my low rev rate... around 17 or 18 MPH at the pins. My normal shot on long oil (40 and more) is up the 7 or 8 board and about 11 or 12 MPH.

Gotta' be versatile! For me, changing speed is the easiest way to adjust my shot... Release changes very little.

[KYDave]

While on the subject...

What do you consider a high rev rate? Above a certain rpm or rev rate in relation to speed?

I have a buddy who doesn't have a high rev rate in my mind from a pure rpm standpoint, but it seriously dominates his speed to where he can hardly keep right of the headpin