New league designation to bridge gap between standard, sport.

[bowl1820]

As the United States Bowling Congress continues to seek ways to ensure reported averages are a true reflection of a bowler’s abilities, USBC has established a new designation for leagues competing on lane conditions that fall between Standard and Sport conditions. A new Challenge lane condition designation and conversion chart was determined based on research of leagues conducted under a Sport/Challenge designation, as well as leagues competing on Blue lane conditions........

Read more here:
http://www.bowl.com/News/NewsDetails.aspx?id=23622329086

[fordman1]

Seems like having everyone bowl on the same conditions would be better.

[DMS]

"Seems like having everyone bowl on the same conditions would be better. "

Yeah, as much as possible. Seems that Kegel could come up with oil patterns for each different lane surface / age combination that would yield a very similar shot from house to house. They need to be matched up, though.

I took their survey they sent a few days ago. I told them I'd like certified houses to have their lane surface specifications (including date of install) and conditioner pattern publicly posted for all to see. Then I'd at least know what conditions I'd be playing and establishing an average on. My average can vary by 40 pins depending on which house I play, and my hardest one is also my closest one. As such, my average for tournaments gets set at the house I average lowest at. I wish that weren't so... My life would be much easier if conditions were more consistent out there. It's almost embarrassing to throw a good game at some places... Get accused of sand bagging once in a while. I tell 'em they should ask their house to put out a tougher shot.... And come on over and play a tourney at my home house.

I've never been re-rated, so I dunno'. I'd accept it if it happened. My real goal is to just get up to a scratch average, then I don't have to worry about it anymore.

[Timmyb]

I didn't know I was rated in the first place. All of this is a bit confusing. How do I know what the hell I'm bowling on in the first place?

[1VegasBowler]

One of the things I did when I got to Vegas was to ask somebody at the front desk what the pattern is. Naturally only one of them could tell me.

BUT, they have directed me to the mechanics who oil the lanes and they have either told me or printed out the pattern.

IMO, if a center has been certified by the USBC, they should be compelled to have that information available at the front desk. I am also of the opinion, that, they should have the information on the oil that is being used as well. This way here if they change the brand and/or texture, it will provide us with info that we can look up and see what it does.

There have been too many times where we can't do anything wrong out there and then all of a sudden we start having a multitude of problems, such as everything being so bad we couldn't hit the ocean with an aircraft carrier.

More times than not, that's on us as the bowler losing our way. But when it's happening for weeks at a time, it's my belief that something in the conditions have changed.

[Stormed1]

The center I bowl at has the pattern posted on the front counter

[Amyers]

Your still going to have house to house differences even if everyone used a similar pattern. At one of the houses I bowl at they could post whatever pattern they want unfortunately a mop and a bucket could put out a more accurate pattern then their lane machine

[DMS]

"Your still going to have house to house differences even if everyone used a similar pattern."

Oh yeah, I understand that. What I'm saying is maybe they shouldn't have such extreme differences. That's why I'm saying... They'd have to develop different patterns for each different type of lane surface, and take the age of the lane surface into consideration. Where I find adequate friction is what dictates my shot, and it varies a lot from house to house. See what I mean? I'll bet it's possible to achieve, but acknowledge it'd take a damn lot of research and testing.

[bowl1820]

Yeah, as much as possible. Seems that Kegel could come up with oil patterns for each different lane surface / age combination that would yield a very similar shot from house to house. They need to be matched up, though.



"Your still going to have house to house differences even if everyone used a similar pattern."

Oh yeah, I understand that. What I'm saying is maybe they shouldn't have such extreme differences. That's why I'm saying... They'd have to develop different patterns for each different type of lane surface, and take the age of the lane surface into consideration. Where I find adequate friction is what dictates my shot, and it varies a lot from house to house. See what I mean? I'll bet it's possible to achieve, but acknowledge it'd take a damn lot of research and testing.


What your suggesting would be a herculean task and would be expensive in the extreme.

Your talking about thousands of bowling alley's, so you would have to have thousands of custom patterns made and of those of custom patterns, you would have to have versions made for every type of lane machine or require houses to all use the same type machine.

(those machines are not cheap $30K-$40k houses would be thinking long and hard about being forced into shelling out those bucks, to replace the machines they have).

Most likely you would also have to have multiple oil types, because some oils work better in different locals than others, because they are affected by the local weather etc. and of course the different lane types involved, Then that would then require patterns developed to use the different oils.

and someone at some point would point out, that all the lanes in each house don't wear in the same way. So to have the lanes just in the house be "similar" each individual lane would require it's own custom pattern.

So say you had 1000 bowling alleys of 32 lanes each, that's 32,000 custom patterns minimum.

Then also you'd have to have the lanes checked not only at the start, but on some regular basis and those patterns updated to compensate for lane wear. Numerous lane mapping crews running kegels lanemapping system all over the country.

That would cost$$$

There would probably be issues with all the houses environmental control systems that would have to addressed.

etc.

[Aslan]

My proposal may seem "too much"...but it can actually be implemented in a very inexpensive way...especially the last part (oil patterns and inspection):

1) USBC Divisions
Sanctioned USBC leagues are now "Beginner", "Intermediate", and "Advanced".

Those who are new or low-level bowlers with no average or an established average 0-135 are eligible to join a "Beginner League".

Those with a > 135 average and < 180 average may join an "Intermediate" league. "Beginners" are also able to join this division.

Those with a > 179 average may join an "Advanced" league. "Intermediates" and "Beginners" are also able to join this division.

2) USBC Red, White, Blue Patterns

"Beginner" Leagues bowl on the USBC Red Pattern.

"Intermediate" Leagues bowl on the USBC White Pattern.

"Advanced" Leagues bowl on the USBC Blue Pattern.

3) Inspection Lottery System

The USBC is required to inspect at least one pair of lanes per 100 USBC sanctioned centers. The cost of inspection is paid by the center. Centers are chosen using a lottery system with the following parameters used to reward centers for certain USBC encouraged activities/initiatives.

Example:
Each sanctioned center receives 10 entries into the "Lottery". Average inspection cost (if your center is chosen) is approximately $3,000.

- A center receives one exemption for each sport/challenge league it hosts per year.
- A center receives one exemption for every two youth leagues it hosts per year.
- A center receives one exemption for every five senior leagues it hosts, per year.
- A center receives one exemption for participating in "Kids Bowl Free" program the previous season.
- A center receives two exemptions if their center was inspected the prior year and passed the inspection.

At the end of each year, centers use that sample formula: 10 entries - 6 exemptions = 4 entries. Every center, and their corresponding # of entries are entered into a random system...and the computer randomly selects 1 center for each 100 centers...and those are the centers to be inspected. The USBC looks at the centers and sets up an inspection schedule to limit the costs as much as possible.

If a center passes, they get a certificate and two exemptions in the next year's inspection lottery. If they fail, they receive four extra lottery entries the following year. Two consecutive failures guarantee an inspection the following year. Three consecutive inspection failures costs the center it's certification for one year.

The above "plan" would give the USBC complete control over all sanctioned patterns that leagues bowl on, at ever sanctioned center. Oil machines would only "have" to be able to apply these three patterns...not an unimaginable number of different patterns. Inspections would add cost to the USBC, but if the inspection costs are charged to the center...the cost to the USBC would be minimal. And centers would be able to share the burden for inspections, since inspections would still be rare. And, using the carrot/stick of inspections being the financial burden of the center, the USBC can use lottery entries to reward (and penalize) centers into doing what they want the centers to do or participate in.

I'd like to see the Divisions as "Scratch" divisions...and participants would HAVE to bowl in their respective division...but given that bowling teams often have couples and friends and relatives participating...at all different averages...that would probably hurt bowling participation too much. So, by allowing handicap at all levels...it allows some of the lesser average and new bowlers to bowl in "USBC Advanced Handicap League"...the only "restrictions" would be the intermediate bowlers bowling in beginner leagues and the advanced bowlers bowling in beginner or intermediate leagues.

[1VegasBowler]

My proposal may seem "too much"...but it can actually be implemented in a very inexpensive way...especially the last part (oil patterns and inspection):

1) USBC Divisions
Sanctioned USBC leagues are now "Beginner", "Intermediate", and "Advanced".

Those who are new or low-level bowlers with no average or an established average 0-135 are eligible to join a "Beginner League".

Those with a > 135 average and < 180 average may join an "Intermediate" league. "Beginners" are also able to join this division.

Those with a > 179 average may join an "Advanced" league. "Intermediates" and "Beginners" are also able to join this division.

2) USBC Red, White, Blue Patterns

"Beginner" Leagues bowl on the USBC Red Pattern.

"Intermediate" Leagues bowl on the USBC White Pattern.

"Advanced" Leagues bowl on the USBC Blue Pattern.

3) Inspection Lottery System

The USBC is required to inspect at least one pair of lanes per 100 USBC sanctioned centers. The cost of inspection is paid by the center. Centers are chosen using a lottery system with the following parameters used to reward centers for certain USBC encouraged activities/initiatives.

Example:
Each sanctioned center receives 10 entries into the "Lottery". Average inspection cost (if your center is chosen) is approximately $3,000.

- A center receives one exemption for each sport/challenge league it hosts per year.
- A center receives one exemption for every two youth leagues it hosts per year.
- A center receives one exemption for every five senior leagues it hosts, per year.
- A center receives one exemption for participating in "Kids Bowl Free" program the previous season.
- A center receives two exemptions if their center was inspected the prior year and passed the inspection.

At the end of each year, centers use that sample formula: 10 entries - 6 exemptions = 4 entries. Every center, and their corresponding # of entries are entered into a random system...and the computer randomly selects 1 center for each 100 centers...and those are the centers to be inspected. The USBC looks at the centers and sets up an inspection schedule to limit the costs as much as possible.

If a center passes, they get a certificate and two exemptions in the next year's inspection lottery. If they fail, they receive four extra lottery entries the following year. Two consecutive failures guarantee an inspection the following year. Three consecutive inspection failures costs the center it's certification for one year.

The above "plan" would give the USBC complete control over all sanctioned patterns that leagues bowl on, at ever sanctioned center. Oil machines would only "have" to be able to apply these three patterns...not an unimaginable number of different patterns. Inspections would add cost to the USBC, but if the inspection costs are charged to the center...the cost to the USBC would be minimal. And centers would be able to share the burden for inspections, since inspections would still be rare. And, using the carrot/stick of inspections being the financial burden of the center, the USBC can use lottery entries to reward (and penalize) centers into doing what they want the centers to do or participate in.

I'd like to see the Divisions as "Scratch" divisions...and participants would HAVE to bowl in their respective division...but given that bowling teams often have couples and friends and relatives participating...at all different averages...that would probably hurt bowling participation too much. So, by allowing handicap at all levels...it allows some of the lesser average and new bowlers to bowl in "USBC Advanced Handicap League"...the only "restrictions" would be the intermediate bowlers bowling in beginner leagues and the advanced bowlers bowling in beginner or intermediate leagues.

I, for one, don't have an issue with the first 2 suggestions. But #3 is where we differ.

While I am only speaking for Southern Nevada as a board member and lane inspector, these inspections are done once/year. We take topography readings at 15, 30 and 50 feet on every lane in our jurisdiction, along with readings in the pin deck from gutter to gutter and the kick plates to make sure they are not damaged. We also check the pin settings on the deck on each lane where the pins must be within a pencil width of the circle. We also randomly inspect the pins for proper weight and damage. We also take tape readings of the oil pattern and submit it to the main office of the USBC.

All readings are written down, and the discrepancies must be corrected within 30 days, and upon notification of the repairs have being made we will go back and reinspect all issues that are out of spec.

To make any exemption from an inspection in any way would compromise the conditions set forth by the USBC, and issues could linger for more than a year.

While we do have a couple of houses that only have 20 something lanes, the majority are in the 60's and 70's, and since we can only do these on weekends, it takes us just over 2 months to do all of our houses.

I would like to see the inspections done twice/year, but I don't see that happening anytime soon.

[Amyers]

I, for one, don't have an issue with the first 2 suggestions. But #3 is where we differ.

While I am only speaking for Southern Nevada as a board member and lane inspector, these inspections are done once/year. We take topography readings at 15, 30 and 50 feet on every lane in our jurisdiction, along with readings in the pin deck from gutter to gutter and the kick plates to make sure they are not damaged. We also check the pin settings on the deck on each lane where the pins must be within a pencil width of the circle. We also randomly inspect the pins for proper weight and damage. We also take tape readings of the oil pattern and submit it to the main office of the USBC.

All readings are written down, and the discrepancies must be corrected within 30 days, and upon notification of the repairs have being made we will go back and reinspect all issues that are out of spec.

To make any exemption from an inspection in any way would compromise the conditions set forth by the USBC, and issues could linger for more than a year.

While we do have a couple of houses that only have 20 something lanes, the majority are in the 60's and 70's, and since we can only do these on weekends, it takes us just over 2 months to do all of our houses.

I would like to see the inspections done twice/year, but I don't see that happening anytime soon.

While in your branch of the USBC these inspections may be done very seriously here in my area I'm pretty sure theses inspections are done by the house owners buddies (small area every one knows each other) over a few free beers. Really in this area it's as much the oil machines that need inspected as the lanes.

[1VegasBowler]

While in your branch of the USBC these inspections may be done very seriously here in my area I'm pretty sure theses inspections are done by the house owners buddies (small area every one knows each other) over a few free beers. Really in this area it's as much the oil machines that need inspected as the lanes.

I certainly won't doubt that happens throughout the country as well.

The only thing regarding the machines is it's beyond our capabilities, except that by taking tape readings, we can see if the oil is being put down properly for the particular house pattern that is being used.

[fordman1]

Just another way for the USBC to spend the regular league bowlers certification money. This doesn't matter unless you are in the small minority who are tournament bowlers. Over all most of the league bowlers don't care. They can't even tell you what their By-laws say. It is all a money grab to keep the in crowd at the USBC working.

[Timmyb]

I'd like to see the Divisions as "Scratch" divisions...and participants would HAVE to bowl in their respective division...but given that bowling teams often have couples and friends and relatives participating...at all different averages...that would probably hurt bowling participation too much. So, by allowing handicap at all levels...it allows some of the lesser average and new bowlers to bowl in "USBC Advanced Handicap League"...the only "restrictions" would be the intermediate bowlers bowling in beginner leagues and the advanced bowlers bowling in beginner or intermediate leagues.

I'm a 214 average. My brother is a 165. I would hate to see the USBC institute any ruling that would not allow me to bowl with him. or my other two teammates as well.

[Aslan]

I, for one, don't have an issue with the first 2 suggestions. But #3 is where we differ...I would like to see the inspections done twice/year, but I don't see that happening anytime soon.


Just another way for the USBC to spend the regular league bowlers certification money. This doesn't matter unless you are in the small minority who are tournament bowlers. Over all most of the league bowlers don't care. They can't even tell you what their By-laws say. It is all a money grab to keep the in crowd at the USBC working.
This is why we don't have consistent playing conditions. If you want consistency, you have to have specifications. If you have specifications, there has to be inspections/verification. If there are inspections, there has to be $$$. And, if there's $$$, there has to be value (for the center and/or bowler).

And this is where we get into the chicken vs. egg scenario that has destroyed (partially) bowling. Do you have a sport that is nothing but an excuse for drunks to get together and throw heavy objects around...which would cost very little? Or, do you want a legitimate sport where specifications exist and are enforced? Right now, we have something in the middle....which annoys BOTH sides of the discussion...because sanctioned bowlers that just want to have "fun" see less and less value...while those that take the game seriously see less and less value...each for completely different reasons.

And, the "inspections" I was talking about were more focused on the pattern...making sure the house is using the approved USBC pattern. Inspections related to all the stuff in the videos...almost all of them seemed to be things that once they are installed....aren't likely to change over time. If the dots are in the right place in 2000...and nobody tried to move them...they will likely be in the same place in 2015. If the re-inspections were quicker and focused more on the pattern and surface...there'd probably be more value in it.


I'm a 214 average. My brother is a 165. I would hate to see the USBC institute any ruling that would not allow me to bowl with him. or my other two teammates as well.
That's why there'd have to be no restriction on your brother (in this case) bowling in the Advanced league with you.

[Timmyb]

That's why there'd have to be no restriction on your brother (in this case) bowling in the Advanced league with you.


But if I wanted to, could I step down to an "intermediate" league? Say I'd rather not bowl in a stuffy-a** scratch league. Shouldn't that choice be mine?

[1VegasBowler]

This is why we don't have consistent playing conditions. If you want consistency, you have to have specifications. If you have specifications, there has to be inspections/verification. If there are inspections, there has to be $$$. And, if there's $$$, there has to be value (for the center and/or bowler).

And this is where we get into the chicken vs. egg scenario that has destroyed (partially) bowling. Do you have a sport that is nothing but an excuse for drunks to get together and throw heavy objects around...which would cost very little? Or, do you want a legitimate sport where specifications exist and are enforced? Right now, we have something in the middle....which annoys BOTH sides of the discussion...because sanctioned bowlers that just want to have "fun" see less and less value...while those that take the game seriously see less and less value...each for completely different reasons.

And, the "inspections" I was talking about were more focused on the pattern...making sure the house is using the approved USBC pattern. Inspections related to all the stuff in the videos...almost all of them seemed to be things that once they are installed....aren't likely to change over time. If the dots are in the right place in 2000...and nobody tried to move them...they will likely be in the same place in 2015. If the re-inspections were quicker and focused more on the pattern and surface...there'd probably be more value in it.


That's why there'd have to be no restriction on your brother (in this case) bowling in the Advanced league with you.

I totally agree with this, but how are they going to go about this? How do you plan to have every pattern checked for every league on every night?

If you were to say you don't do all of them every single day, then there's no way to check for compliance. And an even bigger issue, is, the machine that is putting down the pattern could put down the correct pattern for so many lanes and then have some sort of malfunction an not put the required amount of oil down.

We had a house here where the oiling machine was putting down water on the lanes, and only because it happened during the time inspections were being done, it was caught.

I certainly don't have an answer to this, and won't pretend to. But I am certainly open minded enough to listen to anything reasonable that will actually work.

[ALazySavage]

The three divisions still will cause a problem with people wanting to bowl with each other. You are making the 165 bowler choose if they want to bowl in a league that has the appropriate pattern in relation to their skill level or move up to the Blue Pattern and struggle. I would see this causing more middle tier bowlers to quit because they want to bowl with friends who happen to average over 179 but they don't want to get their heads bashed in on the blue pattern. It is a very sensitive situation.

Don't get me wrong, for a competitive bowler this would be great, as many here have expressed, I would love my league pattern to be a USBC blue pattern or something equivalent. It just seems as though there is a small population of the overall bowling community that is wanting this; if there was a strong enough demand houses would create more challenging leagues.

[Aslan]

But if I wanted to, could I step down to an "intermediate" league? Say I'd rather not bowl in a stuffy-a** scratch league. Shouldn't that choice be mine?No. Nor should you be able to do.

Listen...I SUCK at basketball. I don't why...it's just not a sport I'm good at. But would it be "fun" if I could play basketball on a middle school team? Sure! Does that mean I 'should' be allowed to do it? Of course not. The advantage of "divisions"...is they put people in the appropriate place where the sport can be played fairly. Will it aggravate bowlers...especially early on? Absolutely. One of the primary rules of life...is that ANYTHING someone does...is bound to irritate somebody or some group of people. How many high level bowlers are aggravated every single night...when they shoot in the 200s and they get beat by a sandbagger or some 95 average bowler that gets 100 pins of handicap a game? You'll never get rid of aggravation.

The "question" is....is bowling a 'sport' or an 'hobby'. If it's a 'hobby'...then the USBC has no purpose, bowling will disappear from TV, the pro circuits will dissolve...and bowling will slowly die....like laser tag or billiards or darts or card games. It'll be something that drunk, young adults do...something for birthday parties of little kids...but it won't be a "sport".

"Sports" have divisions. These "divisions" allow everyone to play against other athletes of their same general age and skill level. Making allowances for highly skilled youth to compete at higher levels is no big deal. But, for a 40-year old softball player to join a little league team...just because it would be "fun"...isn't in the best interest of the "sport"....regardless of the increase in participation.


The three divisions still will cause a problem with people wanting to bowl with each other. You are making the 165 bowler choose if they want to bowl in a league that has the appropriate pattern in relation to their skill level or move up to the Blue Pattern and struggle. I would see this causing more middle tier bowlers to quit because they want to bowl with friends who happen to average over 179 but they don't want to get their heads bashed in on the blue pattern. It is a very sensitive situation.
Any change...or lack of change...may (and probably will) lead to one group or another "quitting". Many, many high level bowlers have quit bowling because of the handicap system , easier patterns, 2-handed bowling, and changes in bowling ball technologies. Those changes have also attracted new bowlers to the sport. Ying and Yang. If a person is a 165 average bowler...they belong in an intermediate division. If they want to bowl with their buddy who averages 99...they can either help their friend get better...or their friend can move up to the tougher pattern. To be HONEST....99 average bowlers aren't that affected by changes in patterns and wouldn't see a difference. If you throw a house ball up the middle...spraying and praying....the oil pattern is of no consequence.

Over TIME...bowlers will get used to the divisions...some bowlers will quit...some will come back...some won't. Some will sandbag to get back into a lower level...some will improve their game and aspire to bowl at the highest level. Change is never easy...especially with "old dog bowlers" that are stuck in their ways. But like I said; either bowling is a "sport"...or it's NOT a sport. Right now...it's "sort of" a sport.


I totally agree with this, but how are they going to go about this? How do you plan to have every pattern checked for every league on every night?

If you were to say you don't do all of them every single day, then there's no way to check for compliance. And an even bigger issue, is, the machine that is putting down the pattern could put down the correct pattern for so many lanes and then have some sort of malfunction an not put the required amount of oil down.

There's ZERO possibility of the USBC checking every pattern, on every pair, before every sanctioned league. Compliance checks are not about 100% certainty...they are simply tools to encourage compliance. If a center wants to cheat...they will. And the penalties for being caught cheating...must be severe enough that it will make them think twice.

Lets say the USBC has a team of 10 inspectors; five PAIRS of inspectors. Lets say they are given 10 centers in a region to inspect...again, using the lottery system I mentioned. There are THOUSANDS of centers that won't be spot checked. That's okay. As long as a center thinks they "can" be inspected...regardless of how unlikely it is...they will take compliance seriously...so long as the penalties are severe.

In this example...lets say the inspectors did their spot checks...and one of the 10 centers wasn't putting down the proper USBC pattern within specifications. By failing the inspection, they are almost guaranteed to be inspected again in the next 12 months. And, if the centers are responsible for the cost of the inspections...failure to comply will hurt their bottom line. Some centers won't care...they will non-comply and just pay the inspection costs. But, for those centers...after 3-4 failed inspections in a row...they lose their certifications and likely become some type of Bowlmor Gourmet non-league center.

On the flip-side, many centers that ensure their oil patterns are in compliance...are rewarded by rarely being inspected...and thus saving them money.

I've been an auditor in my career...and we used a similar strategy. Sites didn't want to fail their audit...because it was very frowned upon by the corporation. But, the even GREATER incentive was the cost of the audit. Since corporate didn't fund the audits...the site's were responsible for the costs out of their budget. So, if they passed their audit...it bought them 3 years where they likely wouldn't be audited again. BUT...if they performed poorly...they could be inspected in two years...and if they REALLY performed badly...they faced the cost of another audit in 6-12 months.

This system probably seems like it would allow centers to pass and then do nothing for two years...which, in some cases, might happen. But, it also puts the burden for maintaining compliance on the sites...which means you only need a small group of auditors. AND...it puts the costs of inspections...ON the centers (not the USBC)...but since the centers can get out of the cost by simply complying...it doesn't overly burden the centers with annual inspection costs.

Checking centers for all the things the USBC currently checks for are fine...especially newly constructed centers. But, like I said...the lanes don't get longer or shorter over the course of the year...many of those items don't need to be checked everyday or every year even. Oil patterns can change every hour...and that can greatly affect scoring, and thus the game/sport.

Think of it like nuclear weapons. You don't need to nuke your adversary to force them to do what you want or discourage them from being a bad actor. All you need to do is HAVE nuclear weapons...and your adversaries will fall in line. It's the "threat" of nuclear war that keeps the peace...not the "use" of nuclear weapons.

And the inspection of an oil pattern takes what? 20 minutes? You're not doing the entire day-long inspection...you're walking in 30 minutes prior to a sanctioned league...waiting for maintenance to lay down the oil pattern, then going to the front desk, presenting your credentials, and you inspect ONE PAIR of lanes...at random...do the tape test...run it through the machine....pass or fail. If it passes, you sign the pass document, hand the manager the bill, and exit the center. If it fails...you offer to pick another couple pairs and do a "best 2 out of 3"...or you hand the manager a "Fail" document, the bill, and instructions that spell out the next steps in the process. It doesn't hold up league play...it's just a "spot check".

But...it's useless to discuss...if the centers aren't mandated to put down a specific pattern. There's no sense in it...if centers only have to meet the current oil pattern specifications....because the current specifications aren't working. Even the USBC Open had to change their pattern significantly to counter bowling ball technology, 2-handed bowling, and left-handed advantage. So, the FIRST step...is mandating the USBC patterns be used.

[fordman1]

Three division are fine for tournaments but you should leave the leagues alone. In my entire life I have never heard so much BS from people who sound smart but don't have a clue.

[seajaye]

I haven't read ANY of these past comments, but I am more than thrilled at this new league designation.

I have bowled in many "Sport" leagues that put down 100% Sport patterns, but did not go through all the hoops to be "Sport" Certified. So, my average was significantly lower for these leagues. I really didn't mind this, because if I were to enter a tournament, I could bring up my lower averages and ask to be upward-adjusted. Obviously not ideal, and leaves the possibility of other people being less-than-honest, but good enough for me in particular.

More recently, I bowled in a league that put down about 50% Sport, 50% Challenge, but was totally unsanctioned (so, I didn't have any average to enter tournaments with). I just talked to our house's 'unofficial' USBC rep, and she told me about this new designation that would be *perfect* for us. As an aside, it seems the most accurate would be to weight the average by the proportion of Sport vs. Challenge, so my 174 in this particular league would turn out to (188 * .5) + (202 * .5) = 195. I wonder, is there a set of stipulations for these Challenge leagues that they submit their patterns every week? Will they still have to take weekly tapes or whatever Sport-Certified leagues have to do now?

[J Anderson]

I haven't read ANY of these past comments, but I am more than thrilled at this new league designation.

I have bowled in many "Sport" leagues that put down 100% Sport patterns, but did not go through all the hoops to be "Sport" Certified. So, my average was significantly lower for these leagues. I really didn't mind this, because if I were to enter a tournament, I could bring up my lower averages and ask to be upward-adjusted. Obviously not ideal, and leaves the possibility of other people being less-than-honest, but good enough for me in particular.

More recently, I bowled in a league that put down about 50% Sport, 50% Challenge, but was totally unsanctioned (so, I didn't have any average to enter tournaments with). I just talked to our house's 'unofficial' USBC rep, and she told me about this new designation that would be *perfect* for us. As an aside, it seems the most accurate would be to weight the average by the proportion of Sport vs. Challenge, so my 174 in this particular league would turn out to (188 * .5) + (202 * .5) = 195. I wonder, is there a set of stipulations for these Challenge leagues that they submit their patterns every week? Will they still have to take weekly tapes or whatever Sport-Certified leagues have to do now?

Sport leagues haven't had to run tapes for the last year or so.

[fordman1]

Nice post, who are you and are you getting paid for posting this? I don't believe a word you typed. Your first ever post and I knew without checking you would have nothing in your profile. Who do you work for the USBC? I wonder where you bowl that they have only sport leagues that aren't certified? I know you are a plant because I am the only one on here that says Certified. The rest of the "bowlers" still say Sanctioned.

[seajaye]

Sport leagues haven't had to run tapes for the last year or so.

I'm pretty behind-the-times but was trying to dig into the requirements for getting our league Sport-Certified. Glad to hear that hoop has been eliminated. Like I said, the Challenge distinction might be more fitting for us considering we mix up the patterns and don't run Sport 100% of the time.


Nice post, who are you and are you getting paid for posting this? I don't believe a word you typed. Your first ever post and I knew without checking you would have nothing in your profile. Who do you work for the USBC? I wonder where you bowl that they have only sport leagues that aren't certified? I know you are a plant because I am the only one on here that says Certified. The rest of the "bowlers" still say Sanctioned.

Bahahah. Wow.

I don't work for the USBC.

I've bowled in a few houses that offered up Sport Leagues but did not report them as Sport. So, they were bowled as Standard Leagues, but if you look me up [#987-34048], you'll see these averages are much lower than my other leagues on THS.

More recently, my current house was willing to put down Sport/Challenge patterns for a trial short-league (is that what the "bowlers" say?) but was not willing to sanction the league at all (even as Standard). Now that we've been able to drum up some interest, and now with this new distinction, I think the League Manager is willing to get the work done to sanction it. I'm excited and looking forward to having a book average, as I haven't had one in almost 10 years (and I've only been bowling for about 10 years).

[Tony]

My proposal may seem "too much"...but it can actually be implemented in a very inexpensive way...especially the last part (oil patterns and inspection):

1) USBC Divisions
Sanctioned USBC leagues are now "Beginner", "Intermediate", and "Advanced".

Those who are new or low-level bowlers with no average or an established average 0-135 are eligible to join a "Beginner League".

Those with a > 135 average and < 180 average may join an "Intermediate" league. "Beginners" are also able to join this division.

Those with a > 179 average may join an "Advanced" league. "Intermediates" and "Beginners" are also able to join this division.

2) USBC Red, White, Blue Patterns

"Beginner" Leagues bowl on the USBC Red Pattern.

"Intermediate" Leagues bowl on the USBC White Pattern.

"Advanced" Leagues bowl on the USBC Blue Pattern.



If you want to decimate regular league bowling and put the USBC out of business, this is the blueprint to make that happen.

Regular league bowling is not an all out competition, that's for the tournaments and big money leagues ect. Regular league bowling has a social component to it, that's why friends and family bowl together so often.

I can tell you what would undoubtedly happen in my case / my area, all the recreational bowlers who wish to bowl with friends and family will move to the non USBC certified beer and pizza leagues, in fact those leagues are already growing and have surpassed the number of bowlers in the USBC leagues in my area.

You think there is sandbagging now, wait until you implement this, there will be a number of bowlers who struggle to stay under 179 so they can bowl with their buddies, or as I said above abandon the USBC entirely except for the tournament bowlers, in my higher end winter league I would estimate less than half the guys bowl in tournaments on a regular basis. You'll really love all the 179 bowlers shooting 700's come tournament time.

I commend you for considering ways to enhance and improve the sport of bowling, but this plan has serious flaws that make it an unworkable solution in it's present form.