How THS has ruined bowling, and why we should all quit and play Bocce ball instead !

[Tony]

Ok have at it ! :cool:

[fordman1]

Should say how high tech balls ruined bowling. How different patterns ruined bowling. How Bolmor ruined bowling. How short people ruined bowling. They hardly have to bend over they are so close to the floor.

[Tony]

Should say how high tech balls ruined bowling. How different patterns ruined bowling. How Bolmor ruined bowling. How short people ruined bowling. They hardly have to bend over they are so close to the floor.

"Short people have no reason to live" Randy Newman

Maybe God invented bowling so they would have a reason ?

[bowl1820]

Here are two articles from Coach T of Tamerbowling which I think are pretty good and should be read.

What’s up with THS? Is it too easy?
http://tamerbowling.com/ths-easy/

Where is the Sport of Bowling Going?
http://tamerbowling.com/where-is-the-sport-of-bowling-going/

excerpt:
"To look ahead, we just need to focus on what works in the modern game of bowling, not dream of days gone by. The game can have as much integrity as it ever did. We just need to set the bar higher. I’d like to feel like I’m still playing a great sport."

[fortheloveofbowling]

Well i won't be playing bocce ball but i will be bowling until i can't walk any longer. I do however think the USBC needs to make some changes in regards to house shot requirements. I know i know....... MODERN BOWLING get with the times right???? Not the case with me but many many others. I grew up playing the lanes on the gutter but as things have changed over the years i can play anywhere on the lanes fairly comfortably.

The problem with a lot of house shots is the outside 10 boards are so dry you can't really even start right of 12-13 because the ball burns up. Again, not a huge factor for me but what fits my eye the best does not exist many times on a house shot. The people it affects the most is our ever age increasing membership which have always played straighter angles and many times using that extra angle afforded to them by playing out to increase carry. I know i know........ MODERN BOWLING GET WITH THE TIMES. But these guys many times are recreational bowlers just looking to do their own thing and they are shut out on what is supposed to be a easy shot. I can't tell you how often i see guys making good shots time after time and flat ten over and over. The lane has 39 boards and only 19 are being utilized through the first half of the lane and that has got to change.

Most every time you hear a lot of positive feedback on the lane conditions at tournaments it is because their were multiple angles to play. Make good shots from wherever you are playing and you are rewarded. After the lanes start to transition then it is your job to adjust but don't shut people out. What the USBC needs to do change their minimums for units across the lane and get away from the ridiculous 10 or 12 to 1 ratios. By doing this they could keep a similar amount of oil 10 to 10 but the minimum oil outside of that would increase. By allowing the straighter players to start out further they will create that same wall anyway and the higher rev guys can still start left of them. You just can't expect the aging generation to constantly have to play 4th or 5th arrow by the end of the night when they just can not carry that deep on the lane.

Again, i am just thinking of a more even playing field where good shots are rewarded from wherever you are playing. House shots are supposed to be recreational with multiple angles in play. I don't think by making the maximum ratios say 7 to 1 or 8 to 1 and increasing the minimum volume outside of ten is going to make them much tougher but will allow more variety in lane play.

Please provide your thoughts and experiences from your local centers.

[1VegasBowler]

Well i won't be playing bocce ball but i will be bowling until i can't walk any longer. I do however think the USBC needs to make some changes in regards to house shot requirements. I know i know....... MODERN BOWLING get with the times right???? Not the case with me but many many others. I grew up playing the lanes on the gutter but as things have changed over the years i can play anywhere on the lanes fairly comfortably.

The problem with a lot of house shots is the outside 10 boards are so dry you can't really even start right of 12-13 because the ball burns up. Again, not a huge factor for me but what fits my eye the best does not exist many times on a house shot. The people it affects the most is our ever age increasing membership which have always played straighter angles and many times using that extra angle afforded to them by playing out to increase carry. I know i know........ MODERN BOWLING GET WITH THE TIMES. But these guys many times are recreational bowlers just looking to do their own thing and they are shut out on what is supposed to be a easy shot. I can't tell you how often i see guys making good shots time after time and flat ten over and over. The lane has 39 boards and only 19 are being utilized through the first half of the lane and that has got to change.

Most every time you hear a lot of positive feedback on the lane conditions at tournaments it is because their were multiple angles to play. Make good shots from wherever you are playing and you are rewarded. After the lanes start to transition then it is your job to adjust but don't shut people out. What the USBC needs to do change their minimums for units across the lane and get away from the ridiculous 10 or 12 to 1 ratios. By doing this they could keep a similar amount of oil 10 to 10 but the minimum oil outside of that would increase. By allowing the straighter players to start out further they will create that same wall anyway and the higher rev guys can still start left of them. You just can't expect the aging generation to constantly have to play 4th or 5th arrow by the end of the night when they just can not carry that deep on the lane.

Again, i am just thinking of a more even playing field where good shots are rewarded from wherever you are playing. House shots are supposed to be recreational with multiple angles in play. I don't think by making the maximum ratios say 7 to 1 or 8 to 1 and increasing the minimum volume outside of ten is going to make them much tougher but will allow more variety in lane play.

Please provide your thoughts and experiences from your local centers.

The only thing I would add to this, would be to make the THS from 42-45ft with the volumes you suggested.

[RobLV1]

I agree completely. I would also like to see less taper (Christmas Tree) that helps to guide the ball to the pocket. We need to start to reign in the factors in the THS that take away any necessity for accuracy. Unfortunately, and I know that I will be accused for getting on my soapbox, as long as the USBC and the BPAA are sharing a coffee machine, this will not happen. The proprietors are too afraid of losing customers, and the USBC really doesn't have the money to monitor and enforce tougher lane conditions. The real losers, as I have said before, are the Professional Bowlers, as recreational bowlers just don't know how good they really are.

[Tony]

I agree completely. I would also like to see less taper (Christmas Tree) that helps to guide the ball to the pocket. We need to start to reign in the factors in the THS that take away any necessity for accuracy. Unfortunately, and I know that I will be accused for getting on my soapbox, as long as the USBC and the BPAA are sharing a coffee machine, this will not happen. The proprietors are too afraid of losing customers, and the USBC really doesn't have the money to monitor and enforce tougher lane conditions. The real losers, as I have said before, are the Professional Bowlers, as recreational bowlers just don't know how good they really are.

The way I see it, the subject of the post is THS, so I can't see why anyone would complain about getting on your soapbox by talking about THS.

I can agree with the center operators comment, I bowl with the guy who maintains the lane machine, and I've been there when people are hammering the GM about the shot that night, then bowled with the lane man a couple days later when he says, they changed, had him change the shot because they were getting too many complaints.

It's their business at stake, they don't want to and can't afford to lose teams and leagues because they move due to lane conditions. The directive has to come from USBC as to what they will certify / allow in order to encourage all centers to follow the new guidelines, if the conditions at the center down the road there is less danger of teams leaving. Maybe If the changes are small and happen over a series of years they will cause less issue. They might also need a system to spot check , monitor the centers to ensure that they are following the guideline.

[J Anderson]

Ok have at it ! :cool:

Well at least with bocce the only cost is buying the set and you don't have to pay per game and rent or buy special shoes. A bit hard to play at night or on rainy days but at least there's no sandbagging;)

Seriously, is it really a case of the THS ruining the sport of bowling, or is bowling just reflecting our society?

I don't know how many USBC members are in Fairfield county, and in keeping with the theme of this post am too lazy to look it up, but there are only about 25 willing to bowl year round in a sport league. There are usually another 25 willing to bowl it just for the summer, with maybe 75% returning from previous summers and 25% trying it once and saying never again. That leaves the majority of league bowlers content to bowl on house shots that make it relatively easy to get the ball to the pocket. I have friends who have tried it and quit aftera few weeks, or who have stuck it out for a season but said afterwards "that's not my kind of bowling." I even heard someone who I think is in our local hall of fame and was a very good all around athlete in his youth say, " why would I pay money to bowl bad" in reference to the sport league. Since the nineties we've look at buying new ball as the best and fastest way to raise our averages. We complain that something must be wrong if one lane plays differently than the other of the pair we're bowling on.

Cars and trucks with manual transmissions have become rarities since few people bother to learn how to drive them. I can only remember about three phone numbers since most of the ones I need to call are saved on my cell. While I'm sure that most of us on this forum either work at demanding jobs or have retired from such jobs, it sure seems that as a nation we're getting lazier.

[1VegasBowler]

The THS is a pattern that is supposed to keep the every day bowler around and have high scores.

While there would be a few complaints about the suggestions made to a new THS, the good house bowlers will adjust to it. I also think that those who are just there for fun and enjoying a night out, will also make adjustments as well and will eventually adjust to it.

The problem is. where Tony suggested, is coming up with a way to spot check and/or to monitor the bowling centers for compliance. who is going to do these spot checks?

While the local USBC's do lane inspections every year, it's time consuming. We have 16 bowling centers to do here in Southern Nevada, and it will take us 2 months to complete the list. These are all done on either a Saturday or Sunday at around 6am.

Heck, you can even go to our web site to see who and when we're doing the inspections http://www.sonvbowl.com/.

We also encourage anybody who wants to come out and watch, or even learn how it's done.

Anyhow, as I was saying, who is going to do the spot checks? In smaller areas it might not be all that difficult for the local USBC personnel to do it, but what about the larger areas?

Members of the BOD are all volunteers and to ask some of them to do these spot checks is physically impossible for them to do. And those of us that are able, sooner or later somebody is going to want to say something about gas reimbursement.

While the idea of a spot check isn't a bad idea, the practicality and reality says it's not going to happen anytime soon.

There's no simple solution to this. BUT, as we are all members of the USBC, we should be taking the time to go to our local Board meetings and make these suggestions. OR, even if we took the time to send an email to the USBC in Texas to express our thoughts.

While it's always good to express our opinions and feelings on this or any other forum, it's even better to express them to the powers to be.

Beyond that, we're not being part of the solutions, despite the fact there are some very good ideas that come up here.

[Tony]

Well at least with bocce the only cost is buying the set and you don't have to pay per game and rent or buy special shoes. A bit hard to play at night or on rainy days but at least there's no sandbagging;)

Seriously, is it really a case of the THS ruining the sport of bowling, or is bowling just reflecting our society?

I don't know how many USBC members are in Fairfield county, and in keeping with the theme of this post am too lazy to look it up, but there are only about 25 willing to bowl year round in a sport league. There are usually another 25 willing to bowl it just for the summer, with maybe 75% returning from previous summers and 25% trying it once and saying never again. That leaves the majority of league bowlers content to bowl on house shots that make it relatively easy to get the ball to the pocket. I have friends who have tried it and quit aftera few weeks, or who have stuck it out for a season but said afterwards "that's not my kind of bowling." I even heard someone who I think is in our local hall of fame and was a very good all around athlete in his youth say, " why would I pay money to bowl bad" in reference to the sport league. Since the nineties we've look at buying new ball as the best and fastest way to raise our averages. We complain that something must be wrong if one lane plays differently than the other of the pair we're bowling on.

Cars and trucks with manual transmissions have become rarities since few people bother to learn how to drive them. I can only remember about three phone numbers since most of the ones I need to call are saved on my cell. While I'm sure that most of us on this forum either work at demanding jobs or have retired from such jobs, it sure seems that as a nation we're getting lazier.

There is a club about 5 miles from my house with indoor lighted courts.

[Amyers]

I have no idea what a Bocce even is and I'll continue to bowl until I cant anymore. I would like to see some semblance of shot making brought back to the game and after an adjustment period players would adjust as long as everyone did it. Enforcement is problematic at best proprietors aren't going to tape the lanes or things like that but even a very light limited checks occasionally would suffice as long as the penalties were even moderately still would do the job. The removal of the Christmas tree, more oil on the outside, and 4 to 5 :1 ratios would do the job. It doesn't have to be draconian just not preset for success.

[Tony]

I have no idea what a Bocce even is and I'll continue to bowl until I cant anymore. I would like to see some semblance of shot making brought back to the game and after an adjustment period players would adjust as long as everyone did it. Enforcement is problematic at best proprietors aren't going to tape the lanes or things like that but even a very light limited checks occasionally would suffice as long as the penalties were even moderately still would do the job. The removal of the Christmas tree, more oil on the outside, and 4 to 5 :1 ratios would do the job. It doesn't have to be draconian just not preset for success.

Bocce is a ball rolling sport that dates way back, they estimate it's number three in participants worldwide, behind soccer and golf, around me it's mostly played in private clubs.
http://www.playaboule.com/How_to_play_bocce.aspx

[J Anderson]

Around here bocce is mostly played in backyards and parks. The company that my dad worked for used to have lunchtime horseshoe and bocce leagues complete with permanant, well at least until that part of the property was sold to the city of Norwalk, bocce courts and horseshoe pits.

[fordman1]

Two things to remember.
Every thing is driven by dollars. The BPAA wants the shot easier so their centers are full.
USBC can't do much without centers to bowl in.

Every house should have to run tapes on its high end leagues. Not so much on Senior, church or even mixed leagues. They could be turned in to the local assn.

We had to turn in tapes on our summer PBA league every week. They changed the shot every week and it was too hard to keep up. We had a few Senior PBA guys bowl and couldn't break 200.

[LOUVIT]

Bowl with what you are given...Anyone see the pro's shoot on the 55' oil pattern when even Belmo threw a straight ball....Oil patterns do not matter to me you bowl on what you are given, Yes I am now good but used to be and even I know that. All you people have 8 balls find one that works. Even though I am a lower average bowler with 2 balls I can adjust ......and?

[Timmyb]

Bowl with what you are given...Anyone see the pro's shoot on the 55' oil pattern when even Belmo threw a straight ball....Oil patterns do not matter to me you bowl on what you are given, Yes I am now good but used to be and even I know that. All you people have 8 balls find one that works. Even though I am a lower average bowler with 2 balls I can adjust ......and?


I have 4. Only two go with me to bowling, and one is a spare ball. Now what?

[Tony]

Bowl with what you are given...Anyone see the pro's shoot on the 55' oil pattern when even Belmo threw a straight ball....Oil patterns do not matter to me you bowl on what you are given, Yes I am now good but used to be and even I know that. All you people have 8 balls find one that works. Even though I am a lower average bowler with 2 balls I can adjust ......and?

To start with I am not bowling with the balls I've been given, let's get that out of the way first thing !

There are a few other things to keep in mind, how many different houses with different lane conditions do you bowl at ?
Many of the guys I know bowl at 4 or more different centers who all layout a different house shot. It would be much harder to perform well at all of them with only two balls.

Not to mention guys on travel or sport shot leagues, I know several guys who are on a travel league, imagine the variation in conditions they encounter.

I also recall the olden days when almost everyone had one ball, no spare ball or anything, when they try to do that today, are they successful, not usually, even the 70 yo guys I bowl with have learned to accept that, and most of them are carrying 2 to 4 balls.

Another question is if a guy wants to lug around 10 balls, who cares, he's not making you pay for them or haul them around. I admit I have more balls than I "NEED" but so what, I'm not taking food off the table to pay for them and I like to try different balls, lines and I bowl at multiple centers, where the shot is very different, some balls just stay in the locker at that center for when I'm there.

[Tony]

Two things to remember.
Every thing is driven by dollars. The BPAA wants the shot easier so their centers are full.
USBC can't do much without centers to bowl in.

Every house should have to run tapes on its high end leagues. Not so much on Senior, church or even mixed leagues. They could be turned in to the local assn.

We had to turn in tapes on our summer PBA league every week. They changed the shot every week and it was too hard to keep up. We had a few Senior PBA guys bowl and couldn't break 200.

One trend that I've noticed is the centers are registering more leagues as mixed, one league I bowl in that has been around over 50 years and was always a mens league. Earlier this year one guy asked if his girlfriend could sub for a teammate going to be laid up with surgery, to his surprise the league was registered as mixed and with a coaches vote we allowed her to bowl since it wasn't in the league rules.
Makes me wonder if there is a lower registration cost or something that encouraged them to register it as mixed....?

[fordman1]

One trend that I've noticed is the centers are registering more leagues as mixed, one league I bowl in that has been around over 50 years and was always a mens league. Earlier this year one guy asked if his girlfriend could sub for a teammate going to be laid up with surgery, to his surprise the league was registered as mixed and with a coaches vote we allowed her to bowl since it wasn't in the league rules.
Makes me wonder if there is a lower registration cost or something that encouraged them to register it as mixed....?

It has happened for two reasons. Less and less womens leagues and the men don't want to keep losing teams. They are mostly still a mans league but have a few women bowling. Some really good women can't find anywhere to bowl because they are just too good.
Cost is the same unless it is a local assn. charging more.

[J Anderson]

Bowl with what you are given...Anyone see the pro's shoot on the 55' oil pattern when even Belmo threw a straight ball....Oil patterns do not matter to me you bowl on what you are given, Yes I am now good but used to be and even I know that. All you people have 8 balls find one that works. Even though I am a lower average bowler with 2 balls I can adjust ......and?


To start with I am not bowling with the balls I've been given, let's get that out of the way first thing !

There are a few other things to keep in mind, how many different houses with different lane conditions do you bowl at ?
Many of the guys I know bowl at 4 or more different centers who all layout a different house shot. It would be much harder to perform well at all of them with only two balls.

Not to mention guys on travel or sport shot leagues, I know several guys who are on a travel league, imagine the variation in conditions they encounter.

I also recall the olden days when almost everyone had one ball, no spare ball or anything, when they try to do that today, are they successful, not usually, even the 70 yo guys I bowl with have learned to accept that, and most of them are carrying 2 to 4 balls.

Another question is if a guy wants to lug around 10 balls, who cares, he's not making you pay for them or haul them around. I admit I have more balls than I "NEED" but so what, I'm not taking food off the table to pay for them and I like to try different balls, lines and I bowl at multiple centers, where the shot is very different, some balls just stay in the locker at that center for when I'm there.

I think Lou meant bowl with the lane conditions you're given, and don't gripe about how there's too much or not enough oil, or that they changed the pattern and therefore don't have the right ball with you.

[J Anderson]

It has happened for two reasons. Less and less womens leagues and the men don't want to keep losing teams. They are mostly still a mans league but have a few women bowling. Some really good women can't find anywhere to bowl because they are just too good.
Cost is the same unless it is a local assn. charging more.


One trend that I've noticed is the centers are registering more leagues as mixed, one league I bowl in that has been around over 50 years and was always a mens league. Earlier this year one guy asked if his girlfriend could sub for a teammate going to be laid up with surgery, to his surprise the league was registered as mixed and with a coaches vote we allowed her to bowl since it wasn't in the league rules.
Makes me wonder if there is a lower registration cost or something that encouraged them to register it as mixed....?

I'm not sure about whether there has been a decline in womens leagues but it's definitely true that mens leagues have become mixed in order to keep from losing teams.

Back in the 70s and early 80s when my league was all men following a mixed league, the old timers would always gripe about the earlier league and how the women spent too much time flirting instead of bowling and the men spent too much time hitting on the women. By the early 90s we had voted to let women in with only two dissenting votes.

[Tony]

I think Lou meant bowl with the lane conditions you're given, and don't gripe about how there's too much or not enough oil, or that they changed the pattern and therefore don't have the right ball with you.

You will always have the gripers, whiners, complainers, it's human nature, and just who some people are.

I bowl with one guy when he throws a decent ball and doesn't strike always turns around with his mouth open in disbelief, it's so funny we can't help but laugh.

The one's that get old for me are the guys who kick the return throw things and generally have a little 2 year old style tantrum.

Most of the guys I know quietly bring up a different ball and try to adjust their game to do the best they can.

I don't have a problem with however many balls a guy brings with him unless he puts them in everyone's way and creates a hazard.

[Tony]

It has happened for two reasons. Less and less womens leagues and the men don't want to keep losing teams. They are mostly still a mans league but have a few women bowling. Some really good women can't find anywhere to bowl because they are just too good.
Cost is the same unless it is a local assn. charging more.

Yes, several of the womens leagues that used to have 20 teams, 5 or 10 years ago are gone or down to 6 or 8 teams, I know of several woman that are now in the non sanctioned beer and pizza league, same cost but no sanction and you get a pizza, plate of wings and pitcher of beer.....not that bad of a deal, but they do have to contend with some novice bowlers and such fun things.

On the wed night league 42 lanes used to have 2 mens leagues and a womans league, filled the place. Now 5 years later, the mens leagues have merged, the womans league is gone, we have 22 lanes, and the beer and pizza fun league has the other 20, so the house is still full, and that's what keeps the place in business.

[fordman1]

Back to the original question. Maybe THS saved bowling not ruined it.

[1VegasBowler]

To start with I am not bowling with the balls I've been given, let's get that out of the way first thing !

There are a few other things to keep in mind, how many different houses with different lane conditions do you bowl at ?
Many of the guys I know bowl at 4 or more different centers who all layout a different house shot. It would be much harder to perform well at all of them with only two balls.

Not to mention guys on travel or sport shot leagues, I know several guys who are on a travel league, imagine the variation in conditions they encounter.

I also recall the olden days when almost everyone had one ball, no spare ball or anything, when they try to do that today, are they successful, not usually, even the 70 yo guys I bowl with have learned to accept that, and most of them are carrying 2 to 4 balls.

Another question is if a guy wants to lug around 10 balls, who cares, he's not making you pay for them or haul them around. I admit I have more balls than I "NEED" but so what, I'm not taking food off the table to pay for them and I like to try different balls, lines and I bowl at multiple centers, where the shot is very different, some balls just stay in the locker at that center for when I'm there.

I agree with this in its entirety.

Even though the conditions we encounter each week are supposed to be the same, there are times when they certainly don't play the same each week, and sometimes the transitions can happen much sooner and more frequently on some nights. And even though I do bring my entire arsenal with me each time, it certainly doesn't mean I'll use them all. By the same token there are nights I am sure glad I have them.

Imagine having only your most aggressive equipment with you (Ultimate Nirvana & Vandal Smash), and then realize during practice you can't use them because they are way too much. The opposite certainly applies as well.

[Aslan]

Two things to remember.
Every thing is driven by dollars. The BPAA wants the shot easier so their centers are full.
USBC can't do much without centers to bowl in.
1) That's a "slippery slope". If a center wants to put up bumpers during sanctioned league play...they can't do that. No matter how much money they could make...the USBC MUST protect the integrity of the game. The USBC, mostly due to the sport declining in popularity, hasn't done an adequate job of protecting the integrity of the game...and the result is out of control equipment, easy THS shots, and increasing averages.
2) The USBC absolutely CAN police the BPAA. Bowling centers that are non-sanctioned...have very few "leagues"...if any. They are then forced to rely SOLELY on birthday parties, corporate parties, and casual bowlers. Those centers...almost always...with a few exceptions...close down. Leagues are still the economic life blood of a properous center...it's guaranteed income that the center can always count on...as long as they maintain their certification.


The real losers, as I have said before, are the Professional Bowlers, as recreational bowlers just don't know how good they really are.
At risk of making Tony cry...I agree 100% with Rob. If I had a nickel for every 200 average bowler that thinks they are as good as the pro bowlers...I'd be able to finally build my spaceship that I want to build.

As I've suggested in another thread...the simple answer is for the USBC to require the use of either the USBC Red, USBC White, or USBC Blue patterns to be used during sanctioned league play.
1) Those patterns are available and almost every center has an oil machine capable of putting down those patterns.
2) It STANDARDIZES the oil pattern from center to center and region to region.
3) It gives the USBC an easily verifiable pattern to inspect.
4) It gives the USBC the ability to change those patterns as the game evolves.
5) It allows every bowler to know EXACTLY what pattern they are bowling on each night.

As to Vegas1's comments about the USBC and suggestions....I WILL give the USBC credit that during the Motiv Fiasco...of the 4 letters I wrote (Motiv, Brunswick, PBA, USBC)...the USBC was the ONLY one to respond to my letter. Granted, I'm a USBC member...and granted the response was pretty much just a carefully worded recap of what they had posted online...but STILL....I was impressed that they at least took the time to respond to their member's concerns. Brunswick not responding was disappointing...as a Brunswick customer...but I understand their response would have been more of a "legal dilemma". The PBA not responding forced me to drop my XTraFrame subscription for 2016 and I still am boycotting all PBA National events...only watching PBA50 and PWBA events from now on. And I'll never buy a Motiv product, so they lost a potential customer. But...the point is that the USBC actually DOES listen to their members and usually will respond...so, props for that.

[2handedsniper]

yes usbc is very good they responded to my emails

[Tony]

1)

At risk of making Tony cry...I agree 100% with Rob. If I had a nickel for every 200 average bowler that thinks they are as good as the pro bowlers...I'd be able to finally build my spaceship that I want to build.


I think we have finally been able to pin point the problem, you live in the land of delusional bowlers.
If I had a nickel for every 200 avg bowler locally I know who thinks they are as good as the pro's you know what I would have...... 0.00

You can go ahead and raise that up as high as you want, even the guys I know who avg in the 230's don't think that, it appears the bowlers you know are not very bright, have been out in the sun too long, or are on drugs.....This revelation actually explains a great deal about your posts.

Seriously the people in the Midwest do not think if they shoot par they can be on the tour or if they sink 10 free throws they can play in the NBA.....

[fordman1]

I stated in an earlier post that no bowlers think they are as good as touring pros. There may be some who could be if they decided to put in the work. Most have jobs that provide good income and health insurance. Good example is Tom Smallwood. He lost his good GM job so gave the PBA a chance.
We have 230+ bowlers who refuse to even bowl in the local assn. tournament. With all our members we never get 100 bowlers but have probably 2000 averaging over 220.
They know it is a waste of money.

They bowl in THS leagues and keep the leagues alive.

[Amyers]

I think we have finally been able to pin point the problem, you live in the land of delusional bowlers.
If I had a nickel for every 200 avg bowler locally I know who thinks they are as good as the pro's you know what I would have...... 0.00

You can go ahead and raise that up as high as you want, even the guys I know who avg in the 230's don't think that, it appears the bowlers you know are not very bright, have been out in the sun too long, or are on drugs.....This revelation actually explains a great deal about your posts.

Seriously the people in the Midwest do not think if they shoot par they can be on the tour or if they sink 10 free throws they can play in the NBA.....

Unfortunately I do see some of that here mostly among the younger crowd it's a lot of the same group that joins our travel league that bowls on challenge and sport patterns and then quits after two weeks because they can't cut it or talk the league down because they've already tried it and quit.

[foreverincamo]

Just have the USBC change the maximum oil ratio allowed on the THS and make the outside boards OOB, and get accuracy back into the game.

[bowl1820]

They don't have to change oil ratio's, just have the leagues rotate patterns every week. There's more than enough patterns to have a different one every week of the season.

[rocky61201]

They don't have to change oil ratio's, just have the leagues rotate patterns every week. There's more than enough patterns to have a different one every week of the season.

I would love to bowl in a league like this.

[fordman1]

They don't have to change oil ratio's, just have the leagues rotate patterns every week. There's more than enough patterns to have a different one every week of the season.
Our shot changes from week to week. Not on purpose but because of weather, and the fact that there are doors on both ends of the house. Humidity and temperature are big factors.
I find it amazing that so many of the bowlers who want tougher shots are not the higher average bowlers. Do they think if the guys kicking their a$$ now won't do it on a tougher shot? If you still have a nice place to bowl you should be grateful and quit crying.

[DMS]

"I find it amazing that so many of the bowlers who want tougher shots are not the higher average bowlers."

Why? The lower average players reading this forum are obviously interested in bettering their skills and versatility, and want to see what it's like to play a tougher shot.

"Do they think if the guys kicking their a$$ now won't do it on a tougher shot?"

No... We know they'll probably still kick our a$$. That's okay... Our self esteem doesn't revolve around our bowling. Not going to set ourselves on fire in the basement because we get beat by a better bowler.

Time, practice, coaching... We'll get there eventually and become as cynical as you, Fordman! <g>

Personally, I play the toughest house in our area as my home house because I want it to be harder, and will play better at most other joints because of it. Nothing strange about that, is there?

I aspire to transition from the a$$ kickee to the a$$ kicker. Won't get there playing pushover shots at centers across the street from the old folk's home.

[1VegasBowler]

Until the USBC changes it's rules concerning the THS, anything other than a THS ends up being a sport shot. Even the Red, White & Blue USBC patterns are considered a sport shot.

The only thing that can be done, as said earlier in this discussion, would be for the USBC to re-define the THS as far as length and volume goes.

[fordman1]

Vegas what length would you recommend? What ratio? 3 to 1, 5 to 1 or 10 to 1?

DMS you can bowl on anything you want. But making all shots hard sport or PBA would do nothing but kill bowling. If you really want to make the shot harder for the "elite" good bowlers just don't oil the lanes for a week. Then the novices can throw right down the middle and the newbies can hook the shi* out of the ball.

[Aslan]

Until the USBC changes it's rules concerning the THS, anything other than a THS ends up being a sport shot. Even the Red, White & Blue USBC patterns are considered a sport shot.

The only thing that can be done, as said earlier in this discussion, would be for the USBC to re-define the THS as far as length and volume goes.

What would be the problem with getting rid of the "THS"?

In essence, if you think about it, the "THS" created the "need" for a "sport shot". If there were no "THS"...everyone would simply be bowling on, essentially, a "sport shot"...and nobody would even realize it. The PBA could still vary their (sport) shots as they see fit...animal patterns, etc... But every league would be on the same pattern...there would be no "sport vs THS"...because the THS = sport.

And, keep in mind the other factor to consider...that if the USBC mandated the use of the USBC Red, White, or Blue...the USBC could always change those patterns according to their needs. For example, what if the USBC Red was weakened to the point that it was simply a slightly harder version of a standard THS? The USBC could even adopt the THS...call it the USBC Red...then standardize it's use. On of the MAJOR advantages of this recommendation...is it gives the USBC control over the patterns and allows the USBC to change those patterns (UNIFORMLY) as they see fit. If the USBC Red becomes too much like a THS...maybe too easy...the USBC simply mandates a change in oil volumes, oil types, and/or oil ratios...and redefines the "USBC Red".

And the USBC already does this for the USBC Open...so it's not some drastically outside-the-box idea.

The "trick" comes in three ways:
1) How do you convince the BPAA to give up a little control over their oil patterns?
2) How do you ensure an equal playing field when centers use different types of oil....without putting oil manufacturers out of business?
3) What system do you use to "check/verify" the use of these patterns during league play?

I listened to a center owner talk on one of the XTraFrame telecasts...and I agreed with him on some points...but disagreed on others. Specifically, he was talking about how he liked the idea of making the shots at his centers as easy as possible because he felt that people participating in leagues didn't want to work all day and then beat themselves up trying to bowl in the evening.

He was essentially making the argument (unintentionally) that sanctioned league bowling isn't really a "sport"...it's just something to do while getting drunk and eating food. He also talked about how bowling is now about 53% "casual/open play" and 47% league play...thus more proprietors are catering to open/casual bowlers. This is a slippery slope. As centers start to treat bowling more and more like an "activity"...and leagues become less and less of the business...then the sport starts to die. As the sport dies, there is less incentive to take it seriously. As less and less people take it seriously...less people become league bowlers...and casual/open bowling becomes a greater % of the business....then the circle starts again.

I don't think this is as big a problem in the Southern Nevada USBC...because league play isn't as much of a necessity in the Las Vegas area. Casinos can afford to keep their lanes open...even with sparse usage....the same way they can keep their movie theatres open...even if they aren't packed with people. Casinos make millions of dollars a day in gaming profits and Vegas has an almost unlimited number of tourists. It's a "destination city" that is always starving for non-gaming entertainment.

For most centers (non-Vegas)...there is a "tipping point"....where once a center gets to a low enough league participation rate....the center gets a reputation as "not league friendly", they lose their remaining league bowlers, and the casual/open play can't sustain the center. It's a tricky "tipping point"....because the center doesn't really see it coming...until they've crossed the threshold. Many centers see the expanded open/casual play as great business...."never did better"...right up until that "tipping point"...then within a year they are empty.

Thats why, in some ways, the USBC has to protect centers from themselves. Centers get lured into the idea that leagues are unnecessary...and that the sport is unnecessary. They cite studies of Bowlmor centers in upscale locations and industry trends over the last 40 years. But those studies never seem to include the data regarding centers that lost their leagues...in non-upscale areas...that very quickly went under.

[RobLV1]

The problem is not defining or changing the THS. The problem is monitoring it. If the USBC sets tougher standards, they have to monitor them. If they don't monitor them, then they are meaningless.

[Aslan]

The problem is not defining or changing the THS. The problem is monitoring it. If the USBC sets tougher standards, they have to monitor them. If they don't monitor them, then they are meaningless.

100% agree

And the reason this is so important is the game has changed. Scoring is now SO dependent on lane conditions...and so much less dependent on bowler skill/technique...that the game is easy to manipulate by simply altering patterns.

The USBC checks to make sure lanes are flat and the same length, width etc... And once a year, they spot check whether the lanes have some minimum amount of oil. Those are important...but what's the point of it if a center can put down an easy shot and bowlers at one center have a league-wide average of 188 and at the center 20 minutes down the freeway those same bowlers have an average of 158? Obviously something is wrong.

Statistics 'can' lie...but statistics can also show a problem and a trend. In this sport there is a trend towards higher scoring and lower participation. There is also a trend towards more powerful equipment and less challenging conditions. Maybe it's time for the USBC to take a hard look at that and figure out how they can make those conditions a little harder...and that equipment a little weaker. Maybe we need USBC patterns and more spot checking...and maybe we need to look at changing USBC ball specs for future releases. Maybe the maximum differential should be lowered from 0.060 to 0.055. Maybe the lower RG limit should be set at 2.50. Maybe the durometer/hardness requirements need to be slightly altered.

I understand the USBC is terrified of doing anything that would annoy the ball manufacturers or BPAA...and equally if not more terrified of turning off some of their membership that currently enjoys high scoring...but there has to be some "line in the sand"...or what's the point?

Professional bowling used to be entertaining because it was a group of guys that were the best in the World...and they'd compete and the match would end 193-187. Now every single PBA event seems to be 267-256. Why is it that in baseball...high school players can use aluminum bats...but pros have to use wooden bats....yet in bowling...pros throw the most powerful equipment? The PBA and USBC have had to resort to making their patterns harder and harder...just to combat bowling ball technology...rather than just saying, "Enough. From now on, pros throw urethane with pancake cores." Where's it gonna end? Are we going to have balls that can read the oil volumes as the go down the lane and adjust their own roll to compensate? Balls that can change their chemistry or rotate their cores as they encounter friction? It may seem silly now...but imagine how silly the idea of the internet would seem to a person in 1960. We have cell phones that can tell what direction they are being held and computers that can type the words as we speak them...things that would have been considered "science fiction" 40-50 years ago. Yet, how different are USBC specs now than they were 30-40 years ago?

[fordman1]

Professional bowling used to be entertaining because it was a group of guys that were the best in the World...and they'd compete and the match would end 193-187. Now every single PBA event seems to be 267-256.

Don't agree with this unless you are talking about the 1950's.

[ALazySavage]

As it was stated above, the trouble is in the mentality of the typical bowler today. The expectation/desire from so many bowlers is to show up once, maybe twice, a week and average 200 with the occasional "big game". Last year at the Arizona State tournament I cannot count how many bowlers were complaining that the pattern was too hard and unfair - we were bowling USBC blue. This has also happened with some of the Arizona traveling tours, it started as a difficult pattern and changed to a carry fest because bowlers didn't want to struggle.

To become competitive on harder patterns you have to bowl on the harder patterns, but bowlers don't seem to have the desire to struggle and learn on these patterns.

[fordman1]

Why is always about the "shot" being too easy? Why isn't it about the balls being too complicated? Different weight block of different sizes and shapes. Different covers etc. Those terrible people who bowl in 1 or 2 leagues a week and don't bowl in tournaments. They should spend more time learning about layouts and the new releases. Never mind the fact the USBC is in business because they want to go to league every week and have a little fun. Take away THS and make them. Then who pays the bills.
Good paying jobs aren't as easy to come by today. Get married and have a few kids and work 6-7 days a week and you don't have time to go practice 20 games a week. You don't have money to buy an arsenal. Remember not everyone dreams of being a PBA pro. They know they will never be one. They know they can average 230 on THS but would never stand a chance against the pro bowlers.

[DMS]

The shot, the balls, relative scoring.... Meh. It can all be controlled at the individual league level. Personally, I'm fine with having easy-shot, roll-anything-you-like leisure leagues for people that have limited aspirations for their game. The problem I have is that there's no sport-shot league I can join anywhere within reasonable distance of my home. Closest thing I've been able to find is a scratch league (which I'll begin playing in June), but it's still on 'THS' (whatever that is... We still don't have a definition for it).

Fordman... I acknowledge that not everyone aspires to be PBA caliber, and that's fine. But it'd be nice if there were something available for people who'd like to at least try to reach that level. I'm astounded that our sport is populated by snowflakes afraid of a little challenge, and frankly I don't believe that's a fact. I think the number of bowlers looking for a challenging experience is grossly underestimated.

Aslan... How about a plastic ball league? That'd be humbling even on THS conditions. I recall they had a PBA plastic ball tournament, and it got the pros scrambling! They still doing that?

Hell... I'm thinking of just trying my hand at setting up a private league and seeing how many people it draws. Specify a sport shot, perhaps maximum ball specs and see who wants to give it a try. Nothing stopping any of us from setting up a league through any of our home houses for this purpose. Hmmmm.

[fordman1]

That's the way to go, start a sport league. We have one every summer and average 25 bowlers. Mostly the same ones. The ones who don't come back say it is because it hurts their game more than helping. If you want to get better practice on the pattern you will be bowling on the most.

[Buster76]

Just getting back into bowling after a long 20 year break and its my opinion that between THS and modern equipment bowling has just plain gotten easier since I stopped league bowling in my early 20's (circa 1998) Between these crazy reactive resin balls and the advent of the Christmas tree house shot oil pattern it seems like the ball has a homing beacon to the general pocket area. I am just getting back into this game and my accuracy and mechanics still need a lot of tweaking to get even close to my old form yet I am averaging in the high 190's in open bowling practice by my own account. In my competitive junior bowling days (12 to 17) and then my men's league days (18 to 21) I had to bust my *** to average in the high 190's. And only in one short summer league did I average above 200 (203), and that was back when you got unlimited free summer bowling if you were in a summer league and I was practicing 3 to 4 days per week, 10 to 12 games per practice session.

Conditions back then were harder in my opinion and it didn't seem to hurt bowling leagues one bit. By all accounts bowling was doing much better with higher participation 20 years ago with those harder conditions and weaker balls. I think the bigger issue here is that in today's society no one wants to work for anything. It's another by product of the everyone gets a trophy generation.

[ALazySavage]

Can't ever get the quoting to work on this computer...

@Fordman1 - I should of phrased my comment a little better, because after reading it again I came across the wrong way. There is absolutely nothing wrong with the bowler who just wants to go once/twice a week and have a good time, but my concern is that we are seeing a situation where expectations are shifting in a dangerous way. Bowlers have been built up through equipment, conditions, and other factors to an unrealistic expectation of where they should be so that when they experience a significant challenge, either from a tough sport shot (such as Bear) or a difficult tournament environment, many do not want to struggle through it and I can completely understand that.

If we take a step back and think of it like golf it may be a good comparison. If someone is a 18 handicap (which is respectable for the recreational golfer) and they go to a specific golf course and can't shoot better than +32 they are probably not going to go back; such a struggle compared to what they are used to is not enjoyable. The difference is that equipment hasn't significantly reduced the challenge for the average golfer and the conditions haven't really changed because the golf course relatively has stayed the same, thus we are not experiencing this shift. In Bowling though what has essentially occurred is that we have taken that "18 handicap" and shifted it to an "8 handicap" through equipment and conditions. This is unfair to the bowler because now they have an expectation of where their scoring should be, but when the tournament condition/challenging house condition arrives they are not ready for it and struggle. They may give it a fair effort a few times, but it just isn't enjoyable; not necessarily because of the challenge, but the unrealistic expectation created by the typical house shot and equipment. This hurts tournaments because if they want to survive they are going to have to cater to this and the only way to do it is by easing up on the condition (ball companies are not going to stop creating the biggest baddest balls they can).

The thing is that we have already gotten to this point and turning it back is going to be extremely difficult, if possible at all. We on this board typically talk about how we want the harder conditions, but if we go too hard line with this we will lose bowlers and in turn lose bowling centers/leagues. If we don't go hard enough on this we will lose the higher level bowler and in turn lose tournaments.

[Aslan]

I agree (with all of the comments actually).

The problem is the sport let things get out of hand once the reactive resin era began. As bowling became less popular (mostly due to people having far more entertainment options and companies/churches tightening their belts and no longer sponsoring teams)...the USBC became even more terrified of losing additional members...so they sat on their hands.

At the same time, as the sport got less popular...the big $$$ PBA tournaments became low $$$ tournaments. Viewership fell...big name bowlers had to get other "day jobs", etc...

The solution isn't intended to make everyone have to try and be a pro. Fordman is correct...most bowlers just bowl to have fun. And right now, it's "fun" to strike almost every time you throw the ball. Thus, we have easier THS patterns. It's "fun" not to shoot at spares...so we have "no-tap" leagues/tournaments. It's "fun" to only commit to a 6-week season...or to only pay $10...so we non-sanctioned leagues and "short-season" leagues.

What you have to consider is the same thing we talked about with 2-handed bowling. You have to consider that while you may attract a bowler to the sport with these type of gimics...you lose people as well. Kinda like when a center stops doing leagues because they see more and more casual glo bowlers. At first, it's a bump in revenue. Then, over time, they realize casual bowlers are just that: "casual". They don't show up every week. They don't every Tuesday night rain or shine. And once they find something else to do...they may not show up again for years.

Addressing equipment would be difficult and take time. The ball manufacturers are the real "power" in the industry and they'd fight tooth and nail. Even if they ended up agreeing, you'd need a 1-4 year phase in period of some kind. That means the best shot to fix things is the pattern.

The GOOD news...is that fixing the pattern affects everyone equally. You still will have great bowlers, good bowlers, and bad bowlers. But, instead of the great bowlers averging 230, the good bowlers averaging 205, and the bad bowlers averaging 185...the great bowlers would average 205, the good bowlers would average 175, and the bad bowlers would average 140. That would be disappointing at first...but people would readjust. Bowlers like me...would no longer be disappointed by a < 600 series....because a 600 series would be more like a current 700 series.

Expectations now are just absurd. Like one of the threads mentioned about youth bowlers/tournaments. Now, if you go to a different house or the USBC Open or play in a sport shot league...people gripe terribly claiming "the lanes are flooded", "their oil machine must be broken", that center "sucks", etc... To bowlers these days...it's an "expectation" that they can roll a 180+ game every game. By making the patterns harder...we simply lower that expectation. Instead of me expecting to roll a 550-650 series each night...and being disappointed if I don't...I would expect to roll a 500-600 series and be disappointed if I didn't.

300 scores/perfect games are the best example of this. They used to "mean" something. They are still an amazing accomplishment...but decades ago...a 300-game was a once in a lifetime type of thing for most bowlers. Many good bowlers never attained even one in their entire lifetime. It was such an accomplishment, they gave you a valuable gold ring with gemstones, your name would go up on the wall or ceiling of the center, and there'd be an entire article about you in the paper...kind've like a hole-in-one in golf. Now...there are leagues where 8-15 people will throw 300-games each season...most of them have multiple 300-games...something that used to be reserved for the PBA pros.

Another analogy, for our "gamers" (video game players for us older folk). Online gameplay has allowed people to compete against live competition...something unheard of 20 years ago. It's let to a masive interest in gaming. Yet, there are still players out there that NEVER play online...they only play the game in it's story mode. The reason they never play online...is it's harder. The computer can be set to the easiest setting...and you simply play long enough...eventually you'll beat the game. Playing live competitors is harder...because they are less predictable and it's harder to "rig it" so that you're playing against only weak opponents. It's like bowlers that never their leave their center. Those bowlers KNOW that condition. They know exactly what ball to throw and when...and what line to play. Then, they leave their center, and now they have to "adjust"....and they don't like that. It's harder.

Like I said before...we can't keep making the game easier and easier hoping that it'll make it more and more popular. At some point, it'll just be a joke. And for every new bowler that thinks the new, easy version of the game is more fun...you lose 1-5 "old timers" that think the game has become silly.

[fordman1]

Can anyone remember when the ABC told centers to go to short oil? Maybe mid to late 70's? That in my opinion is when scores started shooting up. Then the urethane balls were the beginning of the end.
I agree with much of Aslan's post. Some of his average data might be a little off on Great, Good, and Fair. I have a few years on him and have never played a video game on line in my life.

[Aslan]

One thing I noticed Wednesday...was I was missing my mark by about 4 boards to the right (give or take).

I had a cold (still do)....my game wasn't "on" by any means.

But, what struck me as somewhat disappointing was that I seemed to be able to strike anyway.

From now on, I'm going to try and pay even more attention to the +/- in terms of target versus where I actually am hitting. I guess, with my bowling going rather well lately...I kind've just assumed I must have been hitting my target consistently. Once I noticed some of my rather significant misses were still striking...I started paying closer attention.

So...just curious...next time you bowl league night...maybe keep track of "target vs hit" and maybe come here and share it.

Something like;
1. +2 (L), X
2. +3 (R), 9 /
3. +1 (R), X
4. 0, 9 -
5. +6 (R), X
6. +1, (L), X

(L) = Left
(R) = Right

If we can miss 4-6 boards from our targets...and still strike...maybe the THS problem is even worse than I actually thought it was... :confused:

[MICHAEL]

I agree completely. I would also like to see less taper (Christmas Tree) that helps to guide the ball to the pocket. We need to start to reign in the factors in the THS that take away any necessity for accuracy. Unfortunately, and I know that I will be accused for getting on my soapbox, as long as the USBC and the BPAA are sharing a coffee machine, this will not happen. The proprietors are too afraid of losing customers, and the USBC really doesn't have the money to monitor and enforce tougher lane conditions. The real losers, as I have said before, are the Professional Bowlers, as recreational bowlers just don't know how good they really are.

Rob, with all due respect, I do have many, MANY bowlers come up to me that have bowled for many years, some as long 40 to 60 years, and say they have never had a 300 game. Many don't have high averages also. Rob, I know you are VERY knowdledgable about lane conditions, if they are so easy, and with your knowledge, what is your average? How many800, and 300 have you had. I just saying many bowlers of average to good skills have never had a 300, or 800! I would expect with you amazing knowledge, and I say that with a huge amount of respect for you having met you, ,,,,,,,,, (If lane conditions are so easy, why don't bowlers like yourself have 230 averages, with Godzilla numbers of 300s, and 800s? I know many senior bowlers that have good averages, and never had a 300/800! I keep hearing how easy it is to roll a 300 game, but I think many people I bowl around at 3 different houses would disagree...

Might be having a REMATCH with you this Summer Rob! ICEMAN against the younger Coach! Are you up to it bud!! What format would you like! Want to play each other at more then one house?? ICEMAN is not the same person you might remember. That ONE lesson you game me has turned me into something amazing on a given day! 834!! 24 strikes in a role!!

I know the temperature is HOT in Vegas, but a Rematch between The Coach, and Iceman just might explode the temperature gauge!!

ICEMAN needs to bring the title back to his home town of Kansas City Missouri where it belongs!

Do you accept this one on one challenge this coming July?

[fordman1]

All I can do is smile when anyone says the shot is just too easy. That was what they used to say when membership was dropping. They quit because it was too easy. It that was true why haven't they came back to bowl on the sports patterns. Most places you couldn't fill the house up if sport bowling leagues were a dollar a game.

[MICHAEL]

All I can do is smile when anyone says the shot is just too easy. That was what they used to say when membership was dropping. They quit because it was too easy. It that was true why haven't they came back to bowl on the sports patterns. Most places you couldn't fill the house up if sport bowling leagues were a dollar a game.

I know some Missouri hall of fame bowlers here in Missouri! They have their good days, and they have their bad days! Its not easy, if it were you would have a 200 average Aslan! You have great form, you have been coached by some of the best bowlers in the world, you very intelligent, you know bowling, ,,,,,, ,,,,,,,, So if its so easy why are you still where your at in regards to average? I know mine is up this year, over 200 but nothing like a solid 225 or anything like that. BUT,,,, BUT,,,, on a give day I can do remarkable scores, like the 832 and double 300's! I just did another one the last Saturday on the Big 22!

It seems to me what makes bowling difficult is many factors,,,,,,,,,,, The particular lanes you on,,,,,,, The Temperature and humidity,,,,, how fresh the oil is, and what kind of oil, how many bowlers are on the lanes,,,, 5 person teams, 10 bowlers, vs 2 person teams. What type of bowlers you up against that day,,, high rev types, or lower types, like most senior citizens. So many factors in my opinion make every time out bowling an adventure, with uncertainty! No such animal as Easy Lanes, in my opinion! Way too many cercimstanceses make every outing an exciting enterprise!

I love bowling with all its various challenges, and anyone that says its too easy, (and is not a professional), then I would say how so??? I would agree that its too easy if you have a 230 average or higher, and a host of 300's, and 800s!

There is plenty of challenge out there for all us none professionals,,,, so says ICEMAN"S

[Tony]

While there is a certain amount of truth in all the proceeding comments, what really should we attribute the fall off in bowling popularity..... yes the THS has had an influence on the game, as have advancements in ball technology, but I don't actually place those items very high on the list.
Sure maybe some people have quit and blamed THS, I personally don't know anyone who claimed that and I have been bowling in a league for over 30 years (yikes)

It seems to me that a drop in manufacturing employment, income, and increased competition for the entertainment dollar have been the real culprits in the drop-off.
Around the midwest we used to have scores of industrial leagues with company sponsored teams, they are all but gone.

Figuring that bowling cost on the average (near me) 15.00 a week over 33 weeks, the cost is fairly substantial and can be replaced by on-line gaming for a cost near nothing.

In some ways bocce ball has taken up some of the slack, for a social game playing and having a drink, once you belong to the club and pay the 50 a year membership the leagues are usually free and the drinks at the club are half the cost of what the bowling center charges.

I actually have run across several former bowlers who have taken up bocce ...... not that that's common on a national basis .

I still know many of the bowlers in leagues I'm in are bowling primarily for a social outing and have no aspirations of becoming a pro, for them the THS has had minimal impact, I don't see them putting up 230 averages or shooting 300's and 800's .....bowling is plenty hard enough to prevent that.......

[fordman1]

Tony if you don't mind I will break it down even more. It is Automation, Computerization job killers. Factories have been automated. Where there were formerly 5,000 workers now there are 500. Now in warehouses robots find the product and bring it to the shipping dock. Teller machines, auto checkout lanes in stores. Credit cards. and the one I get into trouble for the most "lazy kids" They don't want to do any sport or activity unless they are driven there.

I am really old Tony and I have never met a person in my life who played bocce ball. Don't know any place you can play it. Nothing wrong with it but I just don't know of any places.

[Aslan]

Its not easy, if it were you would have a 200 average Aslan! You have great form, you have been coached by some of the best bowlers in the world, you very intelligent, you know bowling, ,,,,,, ,,,,,,,, So if its so easy why are you still where your at in regards to average?
Your honor...let me enter into evidence the above statement.
25 years ago...nobody would have said, "if you were good, you'd have a 200 average." A 200 average was reserved for players that made a living bowling.


I know mine is up this year, over 200 but nothing like a solid 225 or anything like that. BUT,,,, BUT,,,, on a give day I can do remarkable scores, like the 832 and double 300's! I just did another one the last Saturday on the Big 22!
Your honor, let me enter into evidence, exhibit 2.

Iceman started bowling about 5 years ago...has 4 perfect games and an 800 series to his credit. In the 60s and 70s...that would have been absolutely unheard of...again; unless you're a top level pro.


...and anyone that says its too easy, (and is not a professional), then I would say how so??? I would agree that its too easy if you have a 230 average or higher, and a host of 300's, and 800s!
Talk to some bowling proprietors. You'll hear them talk about making the conditions as easy as possible to encourage bowlers to bowl (casually and in leagues). Look at the statistics...the loss of interest in the sport...the inflated averages...the exponential increase in honor scores.

Among sanctioned bowlers:
In the 1950s; the odds of rolling a perfect game were 650,000 to 1.

In 2010, the odds were 3000 to 1.

Just because statistics 'can' lie...doesn't mean they always do.

[MICHAEL]

If its so easy, ( I say again) you with all your coaching practice and knowledge, where are your easy lane 300??? The senior league I bowled the 834, and 2 300s in a role, has never
had ONE other 300 in the many years its been operating THAT league. I have people come up to me that are very good bowlers saying they have NEVER had a 300, but been close several times in their many years of bowling. When was Rob's last 300 game, and how many has he had in the last 2 years???

I rest my case, and hand over my case to the judge to sentence!!

Remember that at the lanes where I rolled the 24 strikes, has Never had that feat done in the over 40 years its been in operation according to the management. That goes back to the 60s, and its a 48 lane bowling alley with a lot of history.

Is Iceman special,,,, Judge,,, I will leave that to the jury to decide... I have like many had my good days, and my great days, Different lanes, different days, different bowling challangers, tempature, etc, all have on barring on good days, average days, and great days.

Did I say I had another 300 game on a bet just the other day, for 20 bucks! LOL That's 3 in just 3 months. They were not easy,,, ball changes, moving constantly to chase the oil... etc...

Its not easy,,,, to say that is an insult to many bowlers out there struggling to keep a 170-190 average! I get sick and tired of people saying how easy it is then I ask them what their average is, and have to laugh,,,, or how many easy 300's, or 800s they have. My average is at this
time around 200, to 210 depending on which league... I have BAD days, on that oil that's suppose to be so easy, no matter how I try to adjust, that's what kills a strong 220-230 average. But Iam working on it. I get a huge rush when the magic works, and that's what keeps me coming back for the GOOD the Bad, and the Ugly!

Is it easier then a sports pattern,,, SURE,,,, but is the house pattern REALLY THAT EASY ASLAN! Is it no challenge 4 you?

Judge, I rest my case!

[RobLV1]

As I have said on many occasions, just because I'm considered a pretty good coach, does not mean that I'm a good bowler. About the time that bowling balls got stupid strong and lane conditions got stupid easy, the bones in my spine started to degenerate, making it impossible for me to take advantage of modern bumper bowling. That being said, virtually every week in each of the leagues in which I bowl, there is at least one three hundred game, and often multiple three hundreds. 800's are more rare, only happening once or twice a month. These scores are being shot by bowlers who couldn't shoot 200 on a sport pattern if their lives depended on it! Michael, if you are really as good as you seem to think you are, the next time there is a PBA Regional Event near you, sign up to bowl in it. If you can cash there, we'll all be impressed!

[MICHAEL]

As I have said on many occasions, just because I'm considered a pretty good coach, does not mean that I'm a good bowler. About the time that bowling balls got stupid strong and lane conditions got stupid easy, the bones in my spine started to degenerate, making it impossible for me to take advantage of modern bumper bowling. That being said, virtually every week in each of the leagues in which I bowl, there is at least one three hundred game, and often multiple three hundreds. 800's are more rare, only happening once or twice a month. These scores are being shot by bowlers who couldn't shoot 200 on a sport pattern if their lives depended on it! Michael, if you are really as good as you seem to think you are, the next time there is a PBA Regional Event near you, sign up to bowl in it. If you can cash there, we'll all be impressed!

Modern bumper bowling.. LOL.... wow Rob, is it really ,,,REALLY that easy! You must have a lot of retired pro bowlers if what YOU say is TRUE about your seniors league. Either that or they do lay down a dressed up shot for senior citizens in Vegas! If that's the case, I am glad what happens in Vegas Stays in Vegas!

Don't get me going on your health conditions compared to MINE! I have many,,, MANY,,, issues including some bad accidents I had while putting up Steel building like the many that are located in Vegas. I will say that doctors wanted me on dozens of medications, but I have found a way to take care of each and every one of them using all natural ways, and substances. The senior leagues here in Kansas City has some damn good bowlers, but no 300, or 800s except rarely by a bwoler named Pat Henderson! Even Pat, might go a whole season now days not throwing a 300 , or 800,,,,,,,,easy,,,, Bumper Bowling,,,,, Not happening here, maybe the ABA should check out those lanes you bowl that senior league on. I rarely hear of 300s around Kansas City on the leagues I bowl. And many of those leages are in big houses, one with 48 lanes.

I am not saying ICEMAN is some Great God of a Bowler,,,,,,,,BUT,,,,, on a given day, on a given set of lanes,,, when I am feeling the POWER I can do remarkable things, like the double 300s I did a month ago. Can I bowl a really average game,,,, SURE!

Are we going to RUMBLE in the Desert??? Do you have what its takes to melt Iceman??? Or is the fear of meeting me on the hollowed lanes of Vegas too much for you!

I personally would like to take on that challenge!

I know your much younger then ICEMAN, but then I am a Super Hero, so that evens it out in my book!!!!

I know what a sports pattern is all about and have bowled several of them as I mentioned above a few years back. House Vs Sports, is like playing different golf courses. Even a house oil pattern plays differently on each and every lane. Its not like the perfect shot to a 300, or 800... YOU KNOW THAT Rob. It is still a challenge regardless.....I get sick and tired of some people belittling the shot that I have done well at.

If there was a sports pattern league here in Kansas City Missouri, I would be the FIRST TO JOIN it! I am sure with practice I could master any of them also. Its just a matter of knowledge, and practice!

Anything can be accomplished, and made easy with the above!

I know Rob,,, your a pretty good coach! Aslan is proof of that,,,(((lol)))),,,, I know you can lead a horse to water, but..........
Your a good bowler also, like many I know here in the Kansas city area, no better then many I know, but better then a lot.

Lets do this RUMBLE IN THE DESERT.... are you game? what format sounds interesting. I would love to try out that EASY OIL YOU KEEP TALKING about
that has several 300s, every league night. LOL

NOTHING LIKE THAT HERE BUD!

[fordman1]

You guys are making my day. I haven't had this much fun since the PBA and USBC shut down their boards.
I still say it was the stupidity of letting urethane balls to be legal that hurt scoring.

[Amyers]

The game is different and scoring is much higher and for those who have styles that match up to the modern conditions the game is easier than it has been. Does that mean everyone rolls a 300 now? No. When I was in my younger days I seen 2 300's rolled in about 10 years. Today there is someone chasing it every week and my centers aren't especially high scoring. 700 used to be something special now days it's an after thought for some that bowl that every other week.

The saddest thing about it as a youth bowler in the early 80's I was considered to be a better than average bowler averaged mid 190's always have had lower ball speed so I had to play less of a straight line earlier than a lot of the players which meant that I struck less but I was accurate and rarely left splits and was an excellent spare shooter so I was competitive. In the modern game I'm not as accurate anymore (took a 20yr vacation form the sport) still a good spare shooter but with my style even descent shots leave the occasional 7-10 or ugly leave and the top player strike dang near 70% of the time doesn't really matter if I can shoot spares and put the ball more consistently in the pocket or not. The game has been reduced to a simple carry contest of which I will never be a top competitor at. It's ok I still love the game won't be quitting anytime soon but for those of you that think the scoring in modern bowling isn't crazily inflated your kidding yourself. The one plus side is in the old days I never even considered 300 as a possibility in the modern game I fully suspect I'll eventually have a good night and get one unfortunately it really won't mean crap.

[MICHAEL]

Everything is better and easier NOW DAYS! Records are being beat yearly,,, it called human evolution! People are bigger, stronger, more intelligent in large part due to Monsanto, and the chemicals they
now put in all our veg's and fruits. The records for the 100 yard dash in Greece was 13.1 seconds around time of Plato. More 300's translates into human evolution, and human enhancement chemicals like those used on most USA croups!! Men are taller, woman are shorter,,,, its evil-lotion! Like it or not, lanes are not easier, we are just getting better at bowling so says Iceman

[mc_runner]

We are getting "better" at bowling because of the 10-10 house shot with huge amounts of miss area, and balls that are designed to maximize that. There's something to be said for the availability of training material and video, too, as well as perfecting physical techniques (however, that latter part is not going to apply to most house hacks). As someone said, let's join some PBA regionals (a goal of mine when my spare shooting gets to 90% and arsenal is redone) and see how we do.

[Aslan]

Ice...as I tried to explain in my earlier thesis...the problem is the conditions have raised expectations to a level that if I say, "The conditions are easy..."; someone responds, "Well, then how come you don't average 230 and have multiple 300 games and 800 series to your credit?"

Twenty-Five years ago...such a question would have been absurd to all but the top 10-20 bowlers in the entire World. People never averaged >195 unless they were legitimate professionals or high-level amateurs. 300-games occurred...but for all but the most elite bowlers...these perfect games were once in a lifetime acheivements...which is why you'd receive a gold ring with real gemstones from the USBC. The USBC also awarded lesser acheivements (because perfect games were so rare) like 11 in a row and 275 games, etc...

I've noticed this with my OWN expectations. I used to throw a few 180+ games and I'd be on Cloud 9! A 500-550 series made me think I was really getting to be a good bowler. And if I shot a 450-500 series...no big deal.

Now, if I shoot < 600 series...I'm ticked off and disappointed. And, if I shoot a sub-500 series...I'm ready to quit the sport altogether.

So...to answer your question...I shouldn't be ABLE to throw multiple 300-games and an 800-series. Nor, should you. We haven't been bowling long enough where that's a realistic accomplishment. You and I should still be throwing in the 165-175...maybe 180s averages. We should still be learning and getting better...since we've only been bowling for < 4 years time. We shouldn't be acheiving things that 25 years ago took a good bowler their entire LIFETIME to achieve...it's that simple.

Have I rolled a 300 game? Yes...in practice...one ONE lane (not a pair). Will I probably roll a sanctioned one in the next 1-2 years? Probably. Honor scores require a mix of luck and skill...and you have to have both working for you at the same time. Will I ever acheive an 800-series? I dunno. Thats trickier....much more dependent on who you're bowling with and against and being able to be precise and repeat shots while at the same time knowing how to make moves off of shots that are still striking.

But...as many have mentioned here...and in other member's scoring threads for those folks that are just tearing up THSs left and right...the next logical STEP is to put that skill to the test. You have nothing more to prove in a THS beer league, do you? I think you only need one sanctioned season with a 200+ average (or maybe 3 consecutive....I think it used to be 3 consecutive but now it's just one...) and you can get yourself a PBA card. Rob has a PBA card (I believe). If there are no sport shot leagues around you...no biggee. You like to travel...you like to take on challenges...the PBA50 tour and PBA Regionals are all over the MidWest...some even stop right there in Kansas City!

I'll tell ya what...Iceman strikes me as a guy who likes to be challenged...so I'm gonna place a BIG BET...right here...for all to see.

Here's a PBA Regional in St. Charles, MO:
https://www.pba.com/Tournaments/Details/2279

The entry fee for this tournament (non-members) is $285. IF our beloved Bowling God Iceman...were willing to test his God-Like abilities at this tournament...AND cashes (any place)...I'll pay his $285 entry fee!! That's right...I will reimburse Iceman $285...all he has to do is sign up and cash (Top 1/3 cash).

Last cashing spot pays $400. That means, if Iceman cashes...he not only gets his entry fee reimbursed...but POCKETS $400...AND...because he cashes in a PBA tournament...he'd be automatically eligible to join the PBA (no average requirement if you cash in a PBA tournament).

July 15th and 16th!! Mark the Date!!

And think about it Ice...think about all the awesome side benefits!!

1) $285 fee reimbursed by Aslan!
2) $400 (minimum) prize money!
3) Automatic PBA eligibility!
4) You would add "PBA Bowler" to your "Bowling God" credentials!
5) There are 3 more tournaments (Omaha, Dubuque, and Omaha) in the Region you could participate in!

And, if you were to win THIS bet....I'd go watch you IN PERSON at the Omaha and/Dubuque events!!

AND....MOST IMPORTANTLY!! Think of the bragging rights alone!! No more questions...no more "tilted Missouri lanes"...Iceman would BE LEGIT!!

That's right Iceman...
http://cdn.content.compendiumblog.com/uploads/user/d0acc5ee-5d24-48b9-a55a-f862314bfebd/0e9df5b3-1e3a-4801-9c9b-47c6a43cd39d/Image/001af1ad3fa2d0d49bb73ca25cef2075.png

[RobLV1]

Just today a teammate of mine from the winter league who averages about 210 shot 265-300-300! He threw 28 straight strikes. When you are lined up on a walled house shot and you have the right ball in your hand, you don't have to be a bowling God, you just have to be consistent.

[MICHAEL]

My brother 865,,,, congrats,,, Mine was a mere 834, with back to back 300, but hey,,, who knows what Iceman might do on the EASY LANES all over Kansas city in the NEAR future! Part of the skill this "friend that you mentioned, must have is one of the most basic skills that many bowlers, maybe even you Rob don't have. Being CONSISTENT, with a shot that you find works. Shots CHANGE from day to day! I had a bad outing today, mainly because I could not find the ball or angle to play the lanes. I must admit, I need to work with a variety of different first ball throws!

Even on those lanes, that you say are easy, what were your scores Rob?

Finding the shot is just one part of the equation,,,, being consistent is what can give you a 800, and two 300 games in a role....

They announced today at Gladstone bowl the 300 I did last week on a bet, , and also mentioned the 834, with the two 300s also... LOL

Then I bowl a crap 3 games today with everyone watching,,,, it was not the crowd, watching me, but the FRICKEN EASY house pattern.

So many things need to be right on this: EASY HOUSE PATTERN, for a bowler to roll greatness. It goes beyond just how the oil is applied! I would say
it takes almost a dozen things to be on in order to roll the 300, and 800. Doesn't
happen ever for many bowlers, as easy as many say it is.

[Aslan]

How DARE Iceman ignore my challenge!!

Does he have warrants in the St. Charles area that he doesn't want to risk going there for fear of being arrested?

Or...is it fear. Been a long time since the iron worker has walked the beams...maybe fear is finally taking control?

Or is it the aliens? Have they gifted him supernatural bowling powers? Powers that are only useful in his house/center??

Or...maybe he's just too old to make the trip? It's a long drive...all those frequent bathroom stops...all those stops at antique stores looking for knick knacks and figurines?? Or maybe, like most his age...he only gambles on slots??

I don't know the reason...but of ALL the options....I HOPE it isn't the most likely....the reason that it is for most bowlers...that it simply makes the ego feel better. Oh...the shame. Not Iceman! Most bowlers...sure....they are weak-minded with fragile egos; them, I understand. But Iceman?? Say it ain't so Ice....say it ain't so....

http://vni.s3.amazonaws.com/121218133653990.png

[Blacksox1]

That is a great offer Aslan. Who could turn it down?

[MICHAEL]

As you know, (I think), I am getting ready to head out to Roswell New Mexico for the great bowling opportunity of rolling a few dozen games on their intergalactic lanes! They are truly out of this world, and present ICEMAN with opportunity to mingle and roll some balls with truly some out of this world bowlers.
The once a year event , (google it for more information), is fun beyond your wildest imagination. They have one bowling alley, and it’s large with some unique qualities. It offers interdimensional bowling along with this dimension, should the lanes be too BLOCKED for the bowlers who are constantly saying how EASY it is now to roll the high scores! You know better, Aslan, as does Iceman!

The interdimensional bowling is like rolling your ball on The US Open pattern only with the added twist of not knowing where the foul line is located, due to the fact it’s constantly moving! There is no up, down, or even Left or Right? It’s something you just have to experience, and cannot be put into human terms! It is one heck of a challenge for all those thinking that the Sports Patterns here on Earth are way too EASY! Real men, like the Klingon’s will not waste their time rolling the EASY EARTH Sports Patterns! Love those lanes in Roswell! Looking forward to meeting up with many of my friends from other Portals, and dimensions!

I then after spending time mingling with other worldly beings and catching up on the latest in regards to interdimensional bowling techniques, hope to head out to Vegas for the Star Trek convention, where I hope to run into Rob! (A lot of hoping going on) I liked Rob very much, as did I like you too Aslan. You’re both good human beings, and as far as earthlings go… not bad Joes!

I looked your proposal over in regards to the PBA thing! Depending on how the Big 22 turns out, I might take you up on that offer.
Remember, my partner and me, won the local Pro Bowel Big 22, (in north Kansas city Missouri qualifying league) We beat the team that won two years ago 10 out of 12 games this season!!! We only got 23 pins in handicap, but many if not most we won without the handicap. They had Jason 225, Bruce, (the guy that bet me last week money he could beat ICEMAN the first game, and I rolled the 300 for the money! LOL), Bruces average 220.

If I win, or place in the top 5 of this tournament, which includes all the AMF’s qualifiers, then I will take you up on your officer. The best part will be YOU IN THE stands coaching, and helping me win that damn PBA thing! The finals are a week from this coming Sunday the 25th at College lanes in Kansas!

When the chips are down,,,, Iceman can do incredible things on a GIVEN DAY! Who Fricken knows!

I also want you to make the trip to Plattsburg before that sacred wooden 6 lane alley closes! I still think it would be a great business opportunity for YOU and ICEMAN to take over the rent, 300.00 a month and run the lanes. Lee, and his Co-buddy, asks me if I would be interested. But it’s a lot of work keeping everything in working order, etc. Not sure I would want to move closer to be there the amount of time needed. I do know it’s a money maker, and could be even more, if Iceman, Rob, and you Aslan ran the joint!

Anyway off to World Gym for a work out. It’s a 24/24 keeping this well-tuned bowling machine of a body in optimum conditioning! Later….. Earthlings!
Live Long and Bowl well!!

[MICHAEL]

http://i1243.photobucket.com/albums/gg546/imagine686868/il_570xN_291024924_zps361fb94e.jpg (http://s1243.photobucket.com/user/imagine686868/media/il_570xN_291024924_zps361fb94e.jpg.html)

Actual picture I took with my camera on the Roswell lanes last year! (this picture was taken of a couple friends of mine bowling the standard, human side of the lanes, not the interdimensional ones!

[Aslan]

That is a great offer Aslan. Who could turn it down?
Isn't it?? It's win/win!!

All he's gotta do is cash...that's a top 1/3 of the field finish...and it'll cost him nothing AND he takes home the purse!!

And what if Iceman DOES win...or finish high up in the cashing? Sponsorships anyone?? Can you imagine Iceman sponsored by Hammer? A former hammer wielding iron-worker...now sponsored by Hammer?? It's storybook!!

And with 3 PBA50 events (Omaha, Dubuque, Omaha) coming to the area!! A PBA regional win...and Iceman would easily have the confidence and ego (and automatic PBA eligibility) to enter those events. Can you imagine Ice vs Bob Learn Jr or Sammy Vincent....the battle of musclemen!?

I call dibs on rights to this story!!!


I looked your proposal over in regards to the PBA thing! Depending on how the Big 22 turns out, I might take you up on that offer....

If I win, or place in the top 5 of this tournament, which includes all the AMF’s qualifiers, then I will take you up on your officer. The best part will be YOU IN THE stands coaching, and helping me win that damn PBA thing!
If you dare...I may actually have to make that trip.

AND YES....I would be rooting for Iceman even though it'll cost me $285. I think ALL of bowlingboards.com will be rooting for Iceman...regardless of the eventual ego inflation that could occur...which will leave Iceman's head resembling one of those Thanksgiving Day Parade balloons. Yikes!


I also want you to make the trip to Plattsburg before that sacred wooden 6 lane alley closes! I still think it would be a great business opportunity for YOU and ICEMAN to take over the rent, 300.00 a month and run the lanes. Lee, and his Co-buddy, asks me if I would be interested. But it’s a lot of work keeping everything in working order, etc. Not sure I would want to move closer to be there the amount of time needed. I do know it’s a money maker, and could be even more, if Iceman, Rob, and you Aslan ran the joint!
Listen Ice...I'd love to do it. Owning a bowling alley with you would be great...but Plattsburgh is too far away from Des Moines. Can't do it while I have a youngster in school here. Not to mention...like I said before...running a successful business isn't easy. A bowling alley is even harder. We'd have to find a way to bring in business, convince competitive bowlers to bowl there, start youth leagues, run tournaments, host birthday parties....it'd be a LOT of work...not to mention the business stuff related to loans, insurance, accounting, taxes, bookkeeping, building codes....all to keep a 6-lane center running that likely would never pass USBC inspections.

And lets say it WAS profitable...and the USBC sanctioned it. What if the demand gets to a level where we need to modernize/expand? The cost of modernizing a center like that...putting in another 18 lanes...going from wood to synthetics....updating to code...we'd never see a profit...for at least 5 years.

[fordman1]

Back to the house shot. Last night we had the first of 6 summer texasholdem tournaments. For those who don't know about them you buy a hand and high hand wins. The tournaments pay $600 for 1st, $300 for second, $200 for 3rd. 6th pays $150.
To qualify you have to bowl within 20 pins of your average the 1st game. 10 pins the second and hit or go over average the last game.
Well out of the 80 bowlers who paid the $10 entry fee "80" bowlers only 13 qualified after 3 games. One in 8 bowlers made the cut. That doesn't sound like an easy THS to me.
16.25%
Everyone who made the 3 cuts got a minimum of $116.

[Aslan]

That doesn't sound like an easy THS to me.

That's not really the point.

If everyone in the league is averaging around 195...when 25 years ago only the top 3-5 bowlers would average that high...thats the point. Hitting your average...whether inflated or not...is just a matter of how well you bowl on a particular night.

Like I said...rolling a 300-game THEN: 1 in 650,000. NOW...1 in 3000.
That doesn't mean everyone on league night rolls a 300-game...it just means it's 215x more likely.

"Hitting your average" (like in the game you mentioned) is actually just as fair now as it was then....it's just a different, much higher average.

[fordman1]

What percentage of Certified bowlers hit 300 --800 last season?

[Aslan]

What percentage of Certified bowlers hit 300 --800 last season?

Not sure.

The 1 in 3000 number was from 2010...so it's likely that it's even more frequent an accomplishment nowadays. The USBC changed their award program back in 2013...and the numbers were continuing to trend upwards then. In 2013, there were more than 50,000 sanctioned 300-games...according to the USBC.

For perspective;
In 1952, there were 1.6 million bowlers and only 198 bowlers that bowled a 300-game. (0.00012375/sanctioned bowler)
In 1980, when there were 4.8 million sanctioned bowlers, there were 5,373 perfect games. (0.00112/sanctioned bowler) (9x as likely)
In 2001, there were 1.7 million bowlers and 42,163 perfect games. (0.0248/sanctioned bowler) (22x as likely)

So, in the 28 years of bowling between 1952 and 1980...it became essentially 9x easier to bowl a perfect game.
In the 21 years that folllowed...it became 22x easier. Doing the math, between 1952 and 2013, it became 221x more likely to bowl a 300-game (which is in line with my 215x number for the similar time period).

If you extrapolate that out to 2016; assuming it's linear in growth...you probably would have had about 52,000 perfect games in 2016...given a linear trend, similar equipment, similar number of bowlers, etc...


Other Stats:
In 2014, there were roughly 1.69 million members of the USBC and 57,472 sanctioned leagues.
In 2015, there were roughly 1.57 million members of the USBC and 53,209 sanctioned leagues.
In 2016, there were roughly 1.49 million members of the USBC and 48,964 sanctioned leagues.

[fordman1]

At one time about 92% of bowlers had not ever bowled a 300 game. Not sure when. I would bet that last year that of all the 300 games bowled only maybe 10% were 1st timers. It is the same people over and over.

You mentioned 1980 is when the 300's started going up. What happened in the early 80's? Urethane balls. Balls that would hook even if you threw them too hard.

[Aslan]

At one time about 92% of bowlers had not ever bowled a 300 game. Not sure when. I would bet that last year that of all the 300 games bowled only maybe 10% were 1st timers. It is the same people over and over.

I doubt the same 200 people that bowled a perfect game in 1952 have bowled the 50,000 in 2013.

That would be rather impressive though.

[fordman1]

What does that even mean?

[Aslan]

What does that even mean?

I meant that while, yes, only the top 3-10% of bowlers roll perfect games...that number is expanding at a statistical rate that is just too blatent to ignore. I think the last number I heard was something like 0.025% of the bowlers....that would mean that the 50,000 perfect games were bowled by around 42,000 different bowlers....meaning 8,000 of the perfect games were multiples.

It'd be nice to see some real stats though. My math is fairly solid...but I'd prefer to see straight up data.

[AWbowler72]

That's why I started trying to bowl sport leagues unfortunately there are few and hard to come by around here. But its a great way to see how good you really are. If you average over 190 in a sport league your definitely good regardless of how much equipment you own because its made the game have more emphasis on accuracy and not how many revs and how many bowling balls you own. I wish there were more sport leagues to bowl in becausse in my opinion alot of these great THS bowlers would see how great they really are.

[Eddy]

"Can't ever get the quoting to work on this computer..."

It's not your computer, it's the website. This message board layout is a mess.

"Just getting back into bowling after a long 20 year break and its my opinion that between THS and modern equipment bowling has just plain gotten easier since I stopped league bowling in my early 20's (circa 1998) Between these crazy reactive resin balls and the advent of the Christmas tree house shot oil pattern it seems like the ball has a homing beacon to the general pocket area. I am just getting back into this game and my accuracy and mechanics still need a lot of tweaking to get even close to my old form yet I am averaging in the high 190's in open bowling practice by my own account. In my competitive junior bowling days (12 to 17) and then my men's league days (18 to 21) I had to bust my *** to average in the high 190's. And only in one short summer league did I average above 200 (203), and that was back when you got unlimited free summer bowling if you were in a summer league and I was practicing 3 to 4 days per week, 10 to 12 games per practice session.

Conditions back then were harder in my opinion and it didn't seem to hurt bowling leagues one bit. By all accounts bowling was doing much better with higher participation 20 years ago with those harder conditions and weaker balls. I think the bigger issue here is that in today's society no one wants to work for anything.

I agree with you mostly, but I recall back in the 80's we used to call an easy league shot "blocked". And many centers in the Rochester NY area used it. It was very similar to the THS, and was basically considered the standard in our area. It is nothing new for centers to put out an easier shot for the typical league shooters.

Besides, most bowlers no matter how easy the shot, can't average more than 180 in most mixed leagues.