Rules and application bowling the Blind ....bye

[Tony]

The league I'm in added a blind team called BYE ......

So if I understand right a BYE means anyone playing them wins all points no matter what they score

And a blind they have to score within 10 pins per player of their average to win.

I understand that to me the normal rules....correct me if that's not correct.

I don't know if it's specifically addressed in the league rule to make it something different.

Week 3 they added a team team 13 and they bowled the team listed as BYE

The team recorded 4 wins with scores of 686 658 638 1982

Week 4 our team bowled the BYE

We recorded 2 wins and 2 unearned points with scores of 715 600 617 1932

On the screen it showed the BYE team as bowling 150 plus 70 handicap for a 220 / 660 series

Our averages at the start of the night were 204 186 216 total of 606 - 30 576

So by what scoring method would they will all 4 and us "lose" 2 games

If we have to be our avg less 10 pins per man we won all games
If it's a BYE we won all 4 games
If we have to beat the 220 / 660 we won 2 and lost 2 .......but they had 2 games where they didn't beat 660
and how the heck do you have the new team play the bye and beat their averages, when they have no average.....they did specify no
book avg were used and avg was set the first night of bowling.

I think something is screwed up here.......

Thoughts ?

[bowl1820]

The league I'm in added a blind team called BYE ......

So if I understand right a BYE means anyone playing them wins all points no matter what they score

And a blind they have to score within 10 pins per player of their average to win.

I understand that to me the normal rules....correct me if that's not correct.

I don't know if it's specifically addressed in the league rule to make it something different.



Note while a lot of players use the terms interchangeably, a "BYE" and a "BLIND" are not actually the same thing.

NO, if you have a uneven number of teams you don't automatically win points when playing the nonexistent team. Most leagues use the "Earn the Points system" which means you have to score within 10 pins per player (unless the league specifies another number) of their average to win. (it's like bowling in a forfeit situation) See Rule 104d

(There are two other options the Draw and Bye system's, but given the information here you are not using those systems.)





Week 3 they added a team team 13 and they bowled the team listed as BYE

The team recorded 4 wins with scores of 686 658 638 1982

Without knowing what averages this team established, we can't say if this is right or wrong.



Week 4 our team bowled the BYE

Our averages at the start of the night were 204 186 216 total of 606 - 30 576

Okay 576 would be the minimum scratch score needed to win points each game. (1728 for series)

(Okay I'm guessing here: you probably have about 54pins team hdcp. That means you needed a 630 hdcp score to win each game and 1890 for total)


We recorded 2 wins and 2 unearned points with scores of 715 600 617 1932

Are those scores the scratch or handicap scores?

If those are handicap scores, Depending on your team handicap I'll take a guess you won the first game and total and lost games 2&3.




So by what scoring method would they will all 4 and us "lose" 2 games

If we have to be our avg less 10 pins per man we won all games
If it's a BYE we won all 4 games
If we have to beat the 220 / 660 we won 2 and lost 2 .......but they had 2 games where they didn't beat 660
and how the heck do you have the new team play the bye and beat their averages, when they have no average.....they did specify no
book avg were used and avg was set the first night of bowling.

I think something is screwed up here.......

Thoughts ?

The new team did have averages.

Depending on your league rules for entering averages, they either had a book average or they established a average that first night.

Since you say they established average the first night, that's the averages the wins would be based on.


On the screen it showed the BYE team as bowling 150 plus 70 handicap for a 220 / 660 series
The scores being showed for the "Bye" team are meaningless. (or at least should be)

If your league posts scores to leaguesecratery, post a link to the recaps and we could take a look to see whats happening .

[Tony]

Note while a lot of players use the terms interchangeably, a "BYE" and a "BLIND" are not actually the same thing.

NO, if you have a uneven number of teams you don't automatically win points when playing the nonexistent team. Most leagues use the "Earn the Points system" which means you have to score within 10 pins per player (unless the league specifies another number) of their average to win. (it's like bowling in a forfeit situation) See Rule 104d

(There are two other options the Draw and Bye system's, but given the information here you are not using those systems.)





Without knowing what averages this team established, we can't say if this is right or wrong.





Okay 576 would be the minimum scratch score needed to win points each game. (1728 for series)

(Okay I'm guessing here: you probably have about 54pins team hdcp. That means you needed a 630 hdcp score to win each game and 1890 for total)



Are those scores the scratch or handicap scores?

If those are handicap scores, Depending on your team handicap I'll take a guess you won the first game and total and lost games 2&3.





The new team did have averages.

Depending on your league rules for entering averages, they either had a book average or they established a average that first night.

Since you say they established average the first night, that's the averages the wins would be based on.


The scores being showed for the "Bye" team are meaningless. (or at least should be)

If your league posts scores to leaguesecratery, post a link to the recaps and we could take a look to see whats happening .

Ok, here's the quandary, the first night they bowled and established averages, (that is the league rule, the pointed that out the first night) and at the same time
they were bowling against the blind team.....meaning whatever they bowled they couldn't lose .......seems like a bit of a flaw there to me......fyi yes the scores were with handicap and yes game 2 and 3 we bowled poorly and lost.
I understand losing because of that, however what's the rules say about both bowling against your average and establishing your average in the same game.......Thanks

[bowl1820]

Ok, here's the quandary, the first night they bowled and established averages, (that is the league rule, the pointed that out the first night) and at the same time
they were bowling against the blind team.....meaning whatever they bowled they couldn't lose .......

Yes, they could lose depending on the individual game scores! Because it is possible to bowl more than 10 pins under average when establishing.

Example:
1-To win each game the player has to be within 10 pins of their average.

2-Bowling the first night, a player established a 183 average.

3-That means to win each game the player needed to score each game at least a 173 scratch game and a 519 scratch total.

4-So His scores were 150-200-200= 550

So here this player lost the 1st game and won 2&3+total


Example:
1-To win each game the player has to be within 10 pins of their average.

2-Bowling the first night, a player established a 200 average.

3-That means to win each game the player needed to score each game at least a 190 scratch game and a 570 scratch total.

4-So His scores were 150-150-300= 600
(Yes I know those scores are unlikely to happen, it's just a example)

So here this player lost the 1st & 2nd game and won game 3+total

[Tony]

Yes, they could lose depending on the individual game scores!

Example:
1-To win each game the player has to be within 10 pins of their average.

2-Bowling the first night, a player established a 183 average.

3-That means to win each game the player needed to score each game at least a 173 scratch game and a 519 scratch total.

4-So His scores were 150-200-200= 550

So here this player lost the 1st game and won 2&3+total

Example:
1-To win each game the player has to be within 10 pins of their average.

2-Bowling the first night, a player established a 200 average.

3-That means to win each game the player needed to score each game at least a 190 scratch game and a 570 scratch total.

4-So His scores were 150-150-300= 600
(Yes I know those scores are unlikely to happen, it's just a example)

So here this player lost the 1st & 2nd game and won game 3+total

OK, thanks for clearing that up ..... I see how it worked out for both of the teams now.

[fordman1]

I might be wrong but I think BLS requires the name of the missing team to be "bye" to pick up the rule for below 10 pins to win.
Every league should have a rule requiring bowl within 10 pins or lose.
Establishing your average the first night should only be used for new bowlers. All others should use last years average if they had 21 games. If not use highest book average over the last 3 years. If none again use the league average from the last year for 3 weeks.
That is why we are here to give opinions.

[Tony]

I might be wrong but I think BLS requires the name of the missing team to be "bye" to pick up the rule for below 10 pins to win.
Every league should have a rule requiring bowl within 10 pins or lose.
Establishing your average the first night should only be used for new bowlers. All others should use last years average if they had 21 games. If not use highest book average over the last 3 years. If none again use the league average from the last year for 3 weeks.
That is why we are here to give opinions.

One of the other leagues, at another house, used blind as the team name, that was a few years ago, don't recall if they used the 10 pin rule. I have no issue with the rule, makes perfect sense. I was surprised they use the first nights games to establish average, quite a few of the people in the league bowled on leagues last winter, I believe that said " since it's a summer league" we'll just do this.....if fact had we used our highest book ( our team's first yr in this league) we would have had a better chance to win games as all of us have slightly lower book avg's......thanks for your input !