Need some help with building my new arsenal

[JCM]

Hello all,

I quit bowling about 3 years ago, but have recently picked it back up. I currently have two balls along with a spare ball. One I love (Hammer Scandal Pearl), one I hate (DV8 Pitbull). I'm looking to add a stepdown from the Scandal, as well as a step up (maybe not a step up, but an earlier roll) from the Scandal. I prefer pearls and hybrids, but will keep the pitbull for tournament play when the oil is thick. Here are some balls I'm considering:

Step down:
Hammer Phobia
Roto grip Hy-Wire
Storm Hy-Road

Step Up:
Hammer Gauntlet
Storm Code Red

Any ideas? I normally play fairly straight, about 17mph with a low 300 rev rate. I'm really open to anything, just looking to fill in the gaps. Eventually I will buy a urethane as well for wood lanes / dry conditions. Any balls you guys would recommend or thoughts on the choices I'm looking at? Thanks!

[Aslan]

Wow...first post out of the gate and it's an arsenal-building question.

Normally I'd go on and on and joke about our futile attempts to come up with any real agreement on arsenals and their construction...but being that this is a new member...he/she will totally not get the joke.

JCM...to answer this question...we'd probably need to know a few more details, like:

1) How do you decide which ball to start with when you bowl?
2) What happens (during bowling) that leads you to decide to make a ball change?
3) When you make a ball change, do you stay on your line, move in, or move out?
4) Do you generally play at one center? Or multiple centers? Or are you a higher-level tournament player or travel league player?

If you try the search function and enter in "arsenal progression" or maybe just "arsenal"....there are a bunch of topics related to this...that the community has recently debated. Might give you some insight...might bore you to death...hard to say.

[JCM]

1.I generally have always had a benchmark ball. I'm thinking the Scandal Pearl is probably what I'll start with in most situations. In past years I threw the IQ Tour Fusion out of the gate always. If it wasn't quite enough, I balled up to a Mastermind. Once the Fusion became too much, I'd swap over to a Roto Grip Deranged. Sadly all of those balls are cracked due to sitting in my bowling bag in a closet for 2-3 years.

2. I generally play a pretty straight shot, normally from 18 out to 8 at the most. At a certain point, balls will start to go high and I adjust to the left as long as I can, making parallel moves and occasionally 2-1's up unto the point when the ball either starts to burn out or I can no longer create enough angle to carry the corner pins. That's normally when I switch.

3. Normally when I ball down, I attempt to go back to my bread and butter shot and the adjustment process starts all over again.

4. I play at multiple centers, including one with wood lanes. I haven't started back with tournament play just yet but I will at some point soon. I've only been back bowling a month or two, but I figure a 4 ball arsenal with a high-middle-low-urethane setup is probably the ticket.

I'm sure you guys get tired of people asking which balls to buy, but I'm really just looking for some ideas on balls to look into. I was really impressed with the Scandal Pearl which is why I put the Gauntlet and Phobia on my list. I understand the Gauntlet and the Pitbull are probably gonna roll pretty similarly but I honestly don't like the Pitbull very much. I bought it because I LOVED my mastermind and it seemed pretty close to it. I don't know if my release has changed, the lanes don't have enough oil, or what, but the Pitbull seems to hook and roll so early it's impossible to control. Just looking for a little bit more length before that roll phase.

[Amyers]

The Code Red is not a step up from the Scandal Pearl it's a step down. Your pretty speed dominate so stronger equipment with lower rg is generally going to be your friend and surface should be helpful. The Pitbull problem is most likely what you stated not enough oil before pitching it I would try changing the surface on it to 2k or 3k and see if that solves the problem the initial surface on the Pitbull is about the roughest on the market at 500/1000 OOB. The Gauntlet does have a higher rg and less surface so it should roll somewhat longer than the Pitbull if you decide to change balls but I would definitely try a surface change first.

The Code Red would give you a longer running ball and a Hyroad would be a light oil ball for someone with your stats. I can't comment on the Phobia I haven't seen one on the lanes the numbers look a little close to the Scandal Pearl for my tastes and with your speed the asymmetrical core in the Code Red or Black would help get the ball going a little more for you.

Don't get caught up in the urethane craze especially for wood lanes. A Hyroad, Matchup, or Rebel would work just fine for you on wood.

[Amyers]

2. I generally play a pretty straight shot, normally from 18 out to 8 at the most. At a certain point, balls will start to go high and I adjust to the left as long as I can, making parallel moves and occasionally 2-1's up unto the point when the ball either starts to burn out or I can no longer create enough angle to carry the corner pins. That's normally when I switch..

Once your in the pocket make 2-1 moves not parallel. Parallel moves bring the break point in and can cause the ball to not get a chance to hook causing corner pin leaves. 2-1 moves keep the same break point just exposing the ball to more head oil.



3. Normally when I ball down, I attempt to go back to my bread and butter shot and the adjustment process starts all over again.

.

Don't move right switch to a longer ball and stay in the same spot or to a more aggressive ball and move left. If the oil is depleted with your stronger ball it's depleted with your less aggressive ball dry is dry.

[JCM]

I've never really messed around with surface as I don't have a ball spinner and have an innate fear of messing up the ball. I will attempt to move it up to 2000 and see if I can get a little more control out of it. I was thinking Urethane because I could use it as my spare ball as well. Considering my speed dominance, I normally use stronger equipment and am afraid of using it for spare shots. But I hate having that plastic ball taking up space in my bag when I could have something else there. Then again without spare shooting I'd be in big trouble especially on the wood lanes.

[Aslan]

Hard to say...

You're playing a benchmark style, which I don't use. And, you're starting well outside of where I play my Scandal Pearl...which means you have low revs, extremely high speed, or both...especially on wood lanes. :confused:

I wouldn't even bother with most of those choices you mentioned...except maybe the Hy Road. I'd recommend the Radical Cyclops then ball down to the Hy Road...then use the Scandal Pearl to battle carrydown. You could get a Sure Lock if you want something stronger...but that just seems like way too much when you're playing outside of 10.

[Amyers]

I've never really messed around with surface as I don't have a ball spinner and have an innate fear of messing up the ball. I will attempt to move it up to 2000 and see if I can get a little more control out of it. I was thinking Urethane because I could use it as my spare ball as well. Considering my speed dominance, I normally use stronger equipment and am afraid of using it for spare shots. But I hate having that plastic ball taking up space in my bag when I could have something else there. Then again without spare shooting I'd be in big trouble especially on the wood lanes.

If your afraid of doing it your proshop can do it for mine don't charge much. It is best done originally with a ball spinner after that you can touch it up be hand rather easily to refresh the surface.

With your higher speed urethane may be better for you than me. Wood tends to cause the ball to roll more quickly. Urethane tends to roll early. Most urethane balls come with lots of surface again roll early. I really believe the entire movement for urethane balls come from watching pros on TV on short patterns. Well that guy with 18 mph speed and 500 rpm can do so why cant I? But this comes from a guy who is perfectly capable of hooking plastic across the lane so it's not spare ball material for me lol

[Amyers]

Hard to say...

You're playing a benchmark style, which I don't use. And, you're starting well outside of where I play my Scandal Pearl...which means you have low revs, extremely high speed, or both...especially on wood lanes. :confused:

Reread the post Aslan. He stated he's playing 18 to 8. You don't play that deep. He is speed dominate though from the stats he posted.

I wouldn't even bother with most of those choices you mentioned...except maybe the Hy Road. I'd recommend the Radical Cyclops then ball down to the Hy Road...then use the Scandal Pearl to battle carrydown. You could get a Sure Lock if you want something stronger...but that just seems like way too much when you're playing outside of 10.

Reread the post Aslan. He stated he's playing 18 to 8. You don't play that deep. He is speed dominate though from the stats he posted.

[JCM]

On wood I have to get deeper and keep my speed firm or I can't keep it on the lanes. On synthetic I normally start 18-8 but it really depends. Some days I can throw it right up the 5 board hard and it's perfect. I can throw multiple angles with the Scandal generally, but the Pitbull seems to hook right off my hand and then roll out. I'm gonna try the surface adjustment and see what I can get out of it.

[Aslan]

Reread the post Aslan. He stated he's playing 18 to 8. You don't play that deep. He is speed dominate though from the stats he posted.

What does 18 to 8 mean?

I assumed standing 2 boards right of center (18) and targeting the 8-board.

I just got done playing on wood lanes for the first time in quite awhile and it was very interesting. I was throwing my Scandal Pearl up 5-7 and standing 14-15...but more on that in my scores section.

[Blacksox1]

Hello all,

I quit bowling about 3 years ago, but have recently picked it back up. I currently have two balls along with a spare ball. One I love (Hammer Scandal Pearl), one I hate (DV8 Pitbull). I'm looking to add a stepdown from the Scandal, as well as a step up (maybe not a step up, but an earlier roll) from the Scandal. I prefer pearls and hybrids, but will keep the pitbull for tournament play when the oil is thick.


Any ideas? I normally play fairly straight, about 17mph with a low 300 rev rate. I'm really open to anything, just looking to fill in the gaps. Eventually I will buy a urethane as well for wood lanes / dry conditions. Any balls you guys would recommend or thoughts on the choices I'm looking at? Thanks!

JCM, my speed and line are the same as yours. My rev rate is just a little higher than yours. I like the RG hy-wire idea as a step down. Please consider this as a step up. The RG haywire, I just bought two more, it is a great symmetric solid with a small core. I use a low flaring layout, but you should use a medium or high flaring layout because of your slightly lower revs. Everyone should have a symmetric solid in their arsenal. The scandal pearl is top tier among pearls.

I expect the haywire and hywire to go out of production soon, that is why I bought now. Fall bowling season often brings many new releases from all companies. See my signature for my current arsenal.

This thread contains good posts from aslan and Amyers too.:)

[JCM]

My ball is released at 18 out to about 8 at the break point. So basically the ball at the arrows is in between 3rd and 4th arrow, goes down to about the 2nd arrow and breaks back to the pocket.

[JCM]

Is the Haywire similar at all to the IQ Tour Solid? I had one of those at one point and liked it a lot. But once I got the Fusion I sold it to a friend who REALLY liked it. Plus I was throwing the Fusion and the Mastermind 90% of the time.

[RobLV1]

My ball is released at 18 out to about 8 at the break point. So basically the ball at the arrows is in between 3rd and 4th arrow, goes down to about the 2nd arrow and breaks back to the pocket.

Nothing personal, but I think that it's pretty terrifying that you ALWAYS play the same line, and are looking for a ball that will fit into your own little mold. The lanes tell you where to play. Once you understand bowling balls, you will choose a ball that will allow you to carry from the line that the lanes have dictated.

[bowl1820]

2. I generally play a pretty straight shot, normally from 18 out to 8 at the most. At a certain point, balls will start to go high and I adjust to the left as long as I can, making parallel moves and occasionally 2-1's up unto the point when the ball either starts to burn out or I can no longer create enough angle to carry the corner pins. That's normally when I switch.


My ball is released at 18 out to about 8 at the break point. So basically the ball at the arrows is in between 3rd and 4th arrow, goes down to about the 2nd arrow and breaks back to the pocket.

Okay, So your hitting 18 at the arrows (which is between 3rd & 4th arrow) out to 8 at the breakpoint. That means your releasing about 25 at the foul line.

Click for larger image of 18 to 8
https://s5.postimg.org/itvz3r7nn/path_2017-06-18-16.jpg (https://postimg.org/image/itvz3r7nn/)

That's not really playing a pretty straight shot.


On wood I have to get deeper and keep my speed firm or I can't keep it on the lanes. On synthetic I normally start 18-8 but it really depends.

Starting at 18 to 8 is pretty deep to begin with and you have to start deeper?



Some days I can throw it right up the 5 board hard and it's perfect.

Okay straight up 5, basically a down and in shot. that's a big difference between that and the 18 to 8 shot.

I think you should look into your lane play and ball & surfaces choices first, Before investing in a new ball.

[Blacksox1]

Is the Haywire similar at all to the IQ Tour Solid? I had one of those at one point and liked it a lot. But once I got the Fusion I sold it to a friend who REALLY liked it. Plus I was throwing the Fusion and the Mastermind 90% of the time.

Never rolled the IQ Tour Solid, you can compare balls on bowlingball.com

Part 2, I put the ball down at 18, at the foul line. This is my go to line. per Rob, if warm up time tells me something else, I make another choice, ball or line.:)

[JCM]

No I misspoke. 18 would be at the foul line, out to 8, then back. It doesn't seem that much of a swing to me. I'd never get the ball back 25 to 8. It's just that the Pitbull seems to be too much under the conditions I play (the surface change may fix that), and the Pearl is very good under most circumstances but not all. Just looking to fill in the gap.

[Aslan]

Nothing personal, but I think that it's pretty terrifying that you ALWAYS play the same line, and are looking for a ball that will fit into your own little mold. The lanes tell you where to play. Once you understand bowling balls, you will choose a ball that will allow you to carry from the line that the lanes have dictated.

Based on the assumption that lanes differ a great deal. I've played multiple centers in multiple states and a THS in one place tends to be a THS in another place.

However, in all fairness to Rob's point, having an arsenal that is built to stay in one's comfort zone DOES have it's disadvantages when you encounter drastically different lane conditions, sport patterns, and tournament/travel situations. By not having stronger/more surfaced options...I generally am limited to 1-17 at the arrows. If the lanes transition faster than usual...for whatever reason...and I find myself around center arrow...I don't have equipment that can properly read the midlane, my rev rate is limited, and I haven't had much success dropping my speed without messing up my timing.

The breakpoint really doesn't matter (concerning the line). Using the standard math (Rule of ???)...the breakpoint is always about 7-9...right around the 2nd tracer (if you're bowling on lanes that have tracers).

The line is how you get the ball to the breakpoint.

A "straight ball" bowler generally has a "release point" similar to where the ball crosses the arrow...thus a "straight" shot. A truly straight shot will have a release point and arrow crossing = to the breakpoint. For example, in Vegas...where the lanes tend to play a bit slicker/longer...I tend to release the ball around 7 (foul line), it crosses the arrows at about 7, and hits the breakpoint at about 8.

The other "straight ball" bowler is one that throws a ball with little to no hook straight up the 3rd arrow...straight line to the pocket. This doesn't utilize the breakpoint (because there is no break)...and carry usually suffers because the entry angle isn't ideal.

By contrast, when I'm throwing my Scandal Pearl;
- my release point (foul line) is generally at 17.
- I cross the arrows at about 12.
- Breakpoint is generally about 9.

So, that seems similar to what you're talking about...so I assume you're crossing the arrows at around 11-13 depending on your rev rate. I don't consider myself a true "stroker"...but I'm also not yet a classic "tweener" either.

[JCM]

Who said I always play the same line? I play all over, but my baseline shot to get lined up is from 18 at release to 8 at the breakpoint. And when I make a ball change I tend to go back to my bread and butter and adjust from there. I make all kinds of adjustments throughout. I feel a lot of condescension from some of you guys (real or imaginary, it's hard to tell online), when my only goal is to get better. I'm working with a coach, and bowling as much as I can these days trying to get my average back to 180-190 like it used to be. Are you guys suggesting that I should just pick one ball and make it work regardless? I'm really asking. I'm never gonna be a top tier tournament bowler, and honestly don't wanna be. I'm just looking for some equipment advice. Will try out the Haywire. Thanks.

[bowl1820]

The breakpoint really doesn't matter (concerning the line). Using the standard math (Rule of ???)

Your thinking of the exit point formula (Rule of 31). If your on a THS yes don't worry about PL-31.



...the breakpoint is always about 7-9...right around the 2nd tracer (if you're bowling on lanes that have tracers).


Basically what you are referring to is what I call the "sweet spot" it's shown in Ron Cliftons article "Breakpoints and Drawing Lines on the Lane (Part 1)"

As seen here:
http://www.bowl4fun.com/ron/TipGraphics/Breakpoint2c.jpg

Years back when I went to Kegel, they had that spot marked on the lane. They basically said if you rolled the ball (properly) through that area, the ball would probably strike or as Ron C. said "The area between the two pieces of tape represents the area of the lane where your breakpoint will have the best chance of striking."

And they were pretty much right.

In one of Slowinski's articles it called Zone 2, see BTM article "Matching ball motion shape to breakpoint zones"
https://www.bowlingthismonth.com/btmcontent/uploads/2014/12/xMatching-Ball-Motion-Shape-to-Breakpoint-Zones.jpg.pagespeed.ic.xOIopHcRZE.jpg

[bowl1820]

Are you guys suggesting that I should just pick one ball and make it work regardless?

I'm not!

I just think you have a good selection of equipment now and before investing hard earned $$$ in a new ball. You should Re-evaluate your current balls and your selection process on when to use each ball (plus if needed adjust surfaces), to see if your really have a hole that needs filling.

If anything this will give you better insight on the equipment you have now and help refine the selection process of a new ball if one is needed.

[Amyers]

What does 18 to 8 mean?

I assumed standing 2 boards right of center (18) and targeting the 8-board.

I just got done playing on wood lanes for the first time in quite awhile and it was very interesting. I was throwing my Scandal Pearl up 5-7 and standing 14-15...but more on that in my scores section.

Generally when someone states they are playing 18 to 8 or something similar the first number is their target (usually at the arrows but in this case at the laydown point) and their break point. His clarification does tighten his line up some which answer my thought of how he gets the ball back from there with his speed and rev rate but it's not in the dirt either. I'm sure the OP was referring to one possible line not his only line.

The haywire is significantly more aggressive than the IQ Tour. It has much stronger cover and more differential than the IQ Tour.

[JCM]

Yeah I'd guess if we're talking arrows I'd be about 13-14 out to 8 then back. Maybe I should actually figure out what my rev rate is. I did count my revs, figure out the time, and multiply it. I got 336. I'd guess it varies from 320-350 if I had to guess.

[Aslan]

Years back when I went to Kegel, they had that spot marked on the lane. They basically said if you rolled the ball (properly) through that area, the ball would probably strike or as Ron C. said "The area between the two pieces of tape represents the area of the lane where your breakpoint will have the best chance of striking."

And they were pretty much right.

Mark Baker used to say something similar during my lessons. He'd say that most of the time...if my ball hit the 2nd tracer (or just to the outside of it)...it would strike. And, most of the time...he was correct.

Unfortunately, not all lanes have tracers and trying to aim for a spot that far downlane isn't as easy as aiming for a spot closer to you.

[Aslan]

I feel a lot of condescension from some of you guys (real or imaginary, it's hard to tell online), when my only goal is to get better.

Ball suggestion/Arsenal suggestion threads usually get a little "testy" because there are two factions:
1) Those that will suggest whatever ball they personally like.
2) Those that will suggest you learn more about ball technology to make a more informed decision.

So, if I were to start a thread like this (which I likely wouldn't)...and ask, "What ball should I get....I'm looking at a Brunswick Nirvanna or a Storm Lock." Most likely...the Brunswick guys will talk about how awesome the Nirvanna is and the Storm guys will tell you that ya can't go wrong with the Lock. The you'll get the other brand loyalists chiming in with "You should try a Rotogrip Haywire! Mine is awesome!" or "Dude...what you really need is a Motiv Tank....it blows those balls our of the water!"

Then...I'd ge the opposite responses from folks like Rob and myself...which would sound like, "Why are you looking at those two? Where are they fitting in your arsenal/progression? What are they replacing?"

I don't usually ask ball advice...because I have a decent grasp of the ball specifications and what I'm looking for. BUT...sometimes if I am torn between 1-5 balls...I might ask this question:

I'm replacing my Radical Reax Pearl with a DV8 Thug Life. The Thug Life has almost the same specifications...same manufacturer/different brand. Would it be a good 1:1 replacement? Or should I save the Thug Life as a replacement for my Scandal Pearl....and look for something more like a Nirvanna...or a Mako...or a Sure Lock....something solid (versus pearl) that might allow me to play further inside?"

By asking the question in that way...it narrows down the responses to various points of view of those specific balls....restricted to how I plan to use them and it eliminates alot (although not all) of the brand loyalist/ball loyalist white noise.

[Amyers]

Yeah I'd guess if we're talking arrows I'd be about 13-14 out to 8 then back. Maybe I should actually figure out what my rev rate is. I did count my revs, figure out the time, and multiply it. I got 336. I'd guess it varies from 320-350 if I had to guess.

If you've taken it that far you've went farther than most. It is good information to have but doesn't have to be exact. The numbers do matter at 300 and your speed your pretty speed dominate at 350 your getting closer to being matched.

As far as your responses don't take anything personally. The info here can be pretty good but you do have some posters that read their personal pet peeves into every post and reply accordingly.

I personally believe have a arsenal that will have handle different conditions and allow you to play different parts of the lane is a good thing. On the other side bowlers who try to force a line with ball changes instead of moving their feet are hurting themselves. How many balls you need really depends on how and where you bowl at. I regularly bowl at 4 different centers and a travel league that bowls all over the state so I keep 5-7 balls drilled up (not always with me). If I only bowled at 1-2 centers I could get away with 1-2. I know some bowlers who are high end tournament bowlers that drill balls to play specific patterns. Bowling is fun and at the end of the day happiness to all weather they even shoot spares with their strike ball or those who are ball whores.

[JCM]

I was really just looking for suggestions of balls people liked for certain situations that might match up with what I was looking for. I like the idea of an aggressive symmetrical ball like the Haywire, but only on synthetics. On wood Solid and especially sanded balls aren't very helpful. Something like the Hyroad would probably be plenty on wood because my Scandal is almost too much. I just had the Code Red in mind because it seems like an asym Fusion. Same cover and finish, stronger core. But I'll likely wait on that one and try some surface on my Pitbull.

[Aslan]

You also have to consider that very, very few members (RobM and ????) are going to have a great grasp of every ball out there and/or every manufacturer.

I have a decent grasp on Brunswick and some of the Columbia stuff....a little about Radical...but I have no idea when it comes to Motiv or AMF or 900Global. And very little idea regarding Storm, DV8, or Rotogrip. So, when you talk about the Scandal Pearl and Gauntlet...I kinda know what you're talking about. And I've seen plenty of people throw the Hy Road. But I have no idea concerning the "Code Red"...didn't even know that was a ball. And I'm a bit biased against the Rotogrip stuff...just haven't been able to throw Rotogrip very well. Seen a lot of folks throwing the Haywire...some love it...some hate it. I've seen a lot of people throwing the No Rules with decent success. And I know a bunch of people that really did well with the Hyper Cell.

Sometimes, I don't know if you tried it, using the bowlingball.com "compare" feature can give you a nice comparison of the specs...a decent place to start.

[JCM]

Code Red is Storm's hybrid version of the Code Black ball. Basically a Hy-Road cover with a Rad4 core. That's what I thought was interesting about it since I had so much success with my Fusion (which also had the hyroad cover) but sometimes wished it was a little more aggressive.

[Amyers]

I was really just looking for suggestions of balls people liked for certain situations that might match up with what I was looking for. I like the idea of an aggressive symmetrical ball like the Haywire, but only on synthetics. On wood Solid and especially sanded balls aren't very helpful. Something like the Hyroad would probably be plenty on wood because my Scandal is almost too much. I just had the Code Red in mind because it seems like an asym Fusion. Same cover and finish, stronger core. But I'll likely wait on that one and try some surface on my Pitbull.

The Haywire on wood unless the pattern is very heavy probably isn't going to be a good matchup. I like the idea of changing the surface on the Pitbull. The Pitbull/Haywire type balls and the Code Red/Black are different beasts the Pitbull is a low RG strong cover ball designed to get traction early in heavy oil the Code series of balls is designed more as a go long skid flip type of reaction both are asymmetric but designed to do very different things. I do think it would make an interesting stronger Fusion although the code red will be longer and flipper than the fusion was

[JCM]

I ended up grabbing a brand new Haywire for a good price (I figured I might as well since they're discontinued now and likely to jump up in price). I also got a chance to throw a Hyroad and it's very close to perfect with my speed and revs on my normal shot. So I grabbed one of those as well. Not sure I'll drill the Haywire just yet, as the Pitbull has calmed down some after 50-60 games or so.

[JCM]

Ended up drilling up the Haywire with a switch grip. If I like it, I'll retrofit my other balls.