Playing deep all the sudden

[drlawsoniii]

While I had a very good night for me last night, pulling off a 678 night with my 185 average, it could have been much better had I realized how my shot had changed sooner. I find it weird that going from game 1 to 2, playing the same line, hitting the same mark, and throwing the ball the same speed, that in the second game on the same lane I all the sudden I kept coming in too deep. It's my understanding that ceteris paribus over time I would end hitting the pocket too shallow leaning toward coming in high or even the left side of the head pin. Can someone give me some insight?

[C J]

I usually give two bad pocket hits before I'm trying to make a move. Usually on light hits actually depending on how I threw the ball I may try it one more time to chalk it up to a bad throw. If I'm throwing my Code Red and I go through the nose I'll immediately try a 2 board move and depending on how bad I will move 3. It seems to me that the changes happen pretty suddenly especially if you're bowling with somebody else. I sometimes practice with my PSO and he is a rev monster and I will throw one shot and bury the pocket and next shot behind him will go straight threw the nose.

If by coming in too deep you mean getting a light pocket hit, that means the ball was likely burning up too much energy trying to get down the lane and didnt have enough left on the backend. I noticed that with my Tyrant (strong solid) before I changed the surface from 500/2000 (OOB) that as the right side burnt up I would actually have trouble making it back to the pocket and would actually have to move RIGHT later in the block. People looked at me like I was crazy when I say I had to move right instead of left but I noticed while bowling with my Tyrant that often I would have to. Now it's sitting at 500 grit only and if there isn't enough oil out for it, it will grab like 20 feet down the lane lol.

With my Code Red it's the opposite, when the track starts to burn I have to move left or it goes through the nose.

Usually for me I notice this change occur pretty suddenly while I'm practicing and it's worse when other players are on the lanes.

[drlawsoniii]

If by coming in too deep you mean getting a light pocket hit, that means the ball was likely burning up too much energy trying to get down the lane and didnt have enough left on the backend.

By coming in deep i mean its a strong hook but it entered the pocket 2-3" further past the head pin as prior balls. Which led to me leaving three 4 pins in a row on that lane.

[C J]

By coming in deep i mean its a strong hook but it entered the pocket 2-3" further past the head pin as prior balls. Which led to me leaving three 4 pins in a row on that lane.

Oh ok got ya, I thought that is what you meant but when I read further down I guess I just confused myself lol, sorry for the mix up.

Sounds like you could fix your problem with a quick move with your feet. Pretty much the same thing happened to me a few weeks ago when I was practicing with my PSO and I made a 3 board move with my feet and was back to burying the pocket and getting strikes.... Like I said, for me I noticed these changes happen pretty quickly so you need to be paying attention for it to happen or you are going to be facing either splits or 9/ multiple frames in a row... Sounds like you are coming in a touch high which leads to the head pin kicking the 2 pin straight out into the channel instead of it taking out the 4 like it's supposed to.

[bowl1820]

I find it weird that going from game 1 to 2, playing the same line, hitting the same mark, and throwing the ball the same speed, that in the second game on the same lane I all the sudden I kept coming in too deep.

You hit the transition, which is what you have to try and stay ahead of by watching how your ball and the pins react.


By coming in deep i mean its a strong hook but it entered the pocket 2-3" further past the head pin as prior balls. Which led to me leaving three 4 pins in a row on that lane.

If your leaving 4 pins, Typically that means the ball is coming in too heavy. You had been playing the same line for a while (and most likely others have too) the line is probably breaking down, drying up. You most likely needed to move in (about maybe a 3/2 move, 3 with the feet and 2 with your mark) and open up the angles in the front part of the lane, this would have moved you into the oil and give you some miss room to the right.


FYI: For those that don't know "ceteris paribus" means "All things being equal"

[C J]

FYI: For those that don't know "ceteris paribus" means "All things being equal"

Lol, yes. I had to google that one.

[drlawsoniii]

What seemed to work was taking a small step back about 3" I wasnt coming in high, just a hair behind the head pin. The only time's I typically have to do that is if i'm getting too much skid and it rolls out too late. I just never imagined i'd have to do that after burning out my line. Typically I have to make a lateral move most often to the left after my line dries.

[Amyers]

For me a 4 pin is automatic 2-1 move unless it was just a bad throw. Worst case scenario with the 2-1 move is a light pocket hit which you may still carry, stay in the same spot you risk a 4-9, or going through the nose. it's not a hard choice in my opinion

[Amyers]

What seemed to work was taking a small step back about 3" I wasnt coming in high, just a hair behind the head pin. The only time's I typically have to do that is if i'm getting too much skid and it rolls out too late. I just never imagined i'd have to do that after burning out my line. Typically I have to make a lateral move most often to the left after my line dries.

Moving back may have helped by increasing your ball speed slightly (if that's the case it will be short lived) or it could be changing the angle for your line just enough for it to catch a little more oil. I've never been a huge fan of vertical adjustments as they seem to work different for different people and if too large can mess with your timing (not an issue with 3')

[drlawsoniii]

For me a 4 pin is automatic 2-1 move unless it was just a bad throw. Worst case scenario with the 2-1 move is a light pocket hit which you may still carry, stay in the same spot you risk a 4-9, or going through the nose. it's not a hard choice in my opinion

What is the ratio equate 2 is it two boards left with the feet one board right with your target?

[Amyers]

What is the ratio equate 2 is it two boards left with the feet one board right with your target?

two boards left with the feet one board left with the target. Keeps the same breakpoint but moves you farther into the head oil.

[drlawsoniii]

two boards left with the feet one board left with the target. Keeps the same breakpoint but moves you farther into the head oil.

Ok thank you for the clarification, I'll try that next week. I've always kept the same target and started with a single board lateral move.

[Amyers]

if you just move your feet your changing your breakpoint down the lane. On THS you can get away with that somewhat but if you've got a good move off the spot why change it? 2-1 adjustments allow you to play the same spot on the lane with just adjusting the amount of oil the ball is in. In most situations 2-1 as you move left 1-1 as you move right should be the norm (if your a righty)

[Aslan]

This is the importance of knowing how to adjust your line based on what spares you are leaving.

A 4-pin or 4-pin combo is almost always a 1:1 move left. For Amyers, he uses a 1:2 move left. Right or wrong, no matter what move you make, you should have a plan. What you leave is the absolute easiest (to see) and most consistent way to figure out how you need to adjust. There are other ways...like where the ball exits the pin deck on a strike or being able to judge the small movements the ball is making as it goes in and out of the various phases of ball movement...but these are harder to see for even higher level bowlers...and can often be misinterpreted.

The trickier part is, and we had an extensive talk about this in another thread; how "good" does the shot need to be in order to adjust. The opinions on that vary. Today I left a 4-pin and normally would make a 1-1 left...but I felt like I may have pulled the shot a little...so I only moved 0.5:0.5 left. I made a better shot a couple frames later and it went through the nose...which for me is a 1:2 move left...so I made another 0.5:1.5 move left because my initial move didn't seem to be enough...but I got a lot of hand into that shot..so a full 1:2 off the 0.5:0.5 I felt might be a little too much.

These are the kinds of thoughts I have on almost every shot:
1) Did I strike?
If yes;
a) Was it a good shot physically?
b) Did I hit my mark?
c) Where did the ball exit the pin deck?
d) Was it a "lucky" strike like a brooklyn or where the corner barely carried?
If not:
a) What did I leave?
b) Was it a good shot?
- If yes; make the appropriate move.
- If no; was it good "enough" to make a move?
c) Is this a move right after 1 or more moves left (which indicates the need to change balls)?

It sounds complicated...and it IS mentally tiring...but the sport requires this type of anlyisis if you want to score consistently well. I've seen bowlers with a very high level of natural ability that have virtually ZERO mental ability to their game. And, sometimes they do very well. But, when they don't...it's like watching a moth try to get inside a light bulb...they just keep throwing the same shot and getting more and more frustrated...or they start randomly switching balls and hoping for the best.