Describing/Telling people layouts

[JaxBowlingGuy]

Looking through various bowling groups one thing that bugs me is when people give others layouts like "pin under ring finger with CG kicked out" or "stack over ring finger"... end rant lol

[santos314]

I figure, I can't understand them, so I am definitely not ready to use them drilled like that. Lol

[C J]

Conversation about layouts with me.....

Them: So whats your layout??
Me: I don't know, the one my pro shop operator put on it.
Lol

I am more confused at the end of somebody telling me their layout than before I started.

[bowl1820]

Looking through various bowling groups one thing that bugs me is when people give others layouts like "pin under ring finger with CG kicked out" or "stack over ring finger"... end rant lol

The use of the terms Pinup, Pindown in most contexts, will start a debate in most forums (at least at some point).

But while they may not be totally accurate and considered outdated terminology, terms like Pinup, Pindown, stack leverage, label layouts, and axis leverage are easy for people to visualize.

Plus if you know the meaning of those terms, they can give you a basic idea of what the player is envisioning for the ball motion they are wanting.

The thing is to work with them and then when needed, Go into Dual Angles, Pin Buffer systems to fine tune the layout for the player.

[santos314]

Conversation about layouts with me.....
Them: So whats your layout??
Me: I don't know, the one my pro shop operator put on it.
Lol

I am more confused at the end of somebody telling me their layout than before I started.

Awesome....I thought it was just me! Lol

[C J]

Awesome....I thought it was just me! Lol

I mean, I understand the whole pin up vs pin down conversation... But the rest of it to me is just a bunch of mumbo jumbo. Haha

[RobLV1]

The easiest way to look at layouts is to understand that the layout is simply the way that the core is positioned within the ball. The guide marks on the ball; the pin, the CG (on symmetrical balls), and the Mass Bias (on asymmetrical balls), are used by the driller to find the best core position for you. It is a lot more than just pin up balls are more angular and pin down balls are smoother, but that is a start. The most important thing to realize is that a layout is chosen based on the initial axis of rotation of each bowler. Because of this, layouts that look the same for two different bowlers may not react the same if the two bowlers have two different initial axis rotations (PAP).

[Mr900]

My layout: Two finger holes and a thumb hole placed strategically to maximize STRIKEAGE!!!

[Aslan]

My only debate on layouts is whether they are as big a deal as some people make them out to be.

I've yet to really dive into the layout issue...I think there's better things for me to focus on than layout. Once the bowling community can understand cores, covers, surfaces, etc...then maybe the next conversation can be slight changes to layout and how it affects ball motion...but for most bowlers..."pin up vs. pin down" is about as much as folks really need to know. I mean, most bowlers use one ball...and most that use arsenals couldn't explain ball specifications at a very high level.

Once us amateur/novice bowlers can throw great, consistent shots...hit our targets 97% of the time...etc... then there's plenty of time to look at the more intricate details such as layouts, PAP, dual angles, etc... Probably a more interesting conversation for the few bowlers that have invested in equipment to drill their own balls or PSOs. The average bowler is probably safe to rely on their coach or PSO to help with layout/angles. The bowler can always make surface adjustments as needed...which trumps pin placement.

[santos314]

My only debate on layouts is whether they are as big a deal as some people make them out to be.

I've yet to really dive into the layout issue...I think there's better things for me to focus on than layout. Once the bowling community can understand cores, covers, surfaces, etc...then maybe the next conversation can be slight changes to layout and how it affects ball motion...but for most bowlers..."pin up vs. pin down" is about as much as folks really need to know. I mean, most bowlers use one ball...and most that use arsenals couldn't explain ball specifications at a very high level.

Once us amateur/novice bowlers can throw great, consistent shots...hit our targets 97% of the time...etc... then there's plenty of time to look at the more intricate details such as layouts, PAP, dual angles, etc... Probably a more interesting conversation for the few bowlers that have invested in equipment to drill their own balls or PSOs. The average bowler is probably safe to rely on their coach or PSO to help with layout/angles. The bowler can always make surface adjustments as needed...which trumps pin placement.

I'm kind of happy to read this. After coming back to bowling, I have seen so much info on layouts and getting the right one, and the differences. Kind of freaked me out. I am not a pro but I started freaking out about having or getting the right layout...lol. Like you said, I have so much to focus on besides this. I also realize that the majority of regulars here are at a higher skill level.

[Amyers]

I'm kind of happy to read this. After coming back to bowling, I have seen so much info on layouts and getting the right one, and the differences. Kind of freaked me out. I am not a pro but I started freaking out about having or getting the right layout...lol. Like you said, I have so much to focus on besides this. I also realize that the majority of regulars here are at a higher skill level.

I tend to agree with aslan on this. I do believe you can screw a good ball up somewhat with the wrong layout for your style and the ball you choose but that's why you hopefully have a good PSO that has seen you bowl. In general I believe with surface adjustments you can make most changes that the average bowler needs.

[LyalC52]

unless you truly know your PAP, the PSO is just guessing
I tried finding mine a few times with the tape and camera method and got close, which for me, is close enough
but, the Bower ID took all the guess work out

also, when you tell most bowlers what your 2 angle layout is, they look at you with glossed over eyes and node pretending to understand what you just told them

[RobLV1]

Using layouts to control ball reaction has its place, but it's not for the casual league bowler. It's not just about trusting your PSO to use a layout that's right for you (one pin up and one pin down should be plenty), but it's also about trusting him/her to recommend a ball that is designed to do what you want it to do. The problems arise when you see a ball that you like whether it's because you've seen someone else using it successfully, the advertising, or you think it's a nice color, and you tell your PSO to drill it to do something else. So often bowlers buy overly aggressive, early rolling bowling balls, and tell their PSO's to drill it to go long and snap. It just doesn't work!

[Aslan]

So often bowlers buy overly aggressive, early rolling bowling balls, and tell their PSO's to drill it to go long and snap. It just doesn't work!

Agree 1000% with Rob on that point. I don't know how many times I've seen moderately experienced bowlers buy sanded $300 balls and have to get it drilled 3 times because they want it to go longer. Meanwhile, bowlers that understand ball movement and bowling ball specifications go in, spend $130 on a 900 Global Boost, and lead their league in average.

And yes...I realize I often buy equipment and then have to drill or surface it to make it "fit"...but I know that going in and am saving 65% on the ball cost. AND...I've definitely been scaling back my "collection" as I'm leaning more towards paying a little more for exactly what I want...than pay a lot less, risk it cracking in storage, and then having to make things "fit".

[JerseyJim]

I generally use 1 or 2 layouts. If I need the ball to go longer, or start sooner, it's easier to adjust the surface.