Urethane

[santos314]

I love the look of a urethane shot. I guess it goes back to my Black Hammer days in the late 80's. I know high rev players are using more urethane but I want to know if any old schoolers are still throwing primarily urethane. Any of you lower rev strokers out there still rocking the urethane. I don't have one yet but I am really curious about getting one for old times sake. I think Eddy said he's using the Blue Hammer....

[RobLV1]

Unless you have a TON of ball speed, urethane is a really bad idea. Urethane reads the mid land really early, making it a bad choice for all but very high speed bowlers.

[santos314]

Was urethane the first thing to come along after plastic?

[Amyers]

Was urethane the first thing to come along after plastic?

Rubber to Plastic to Urethane to Modern Balls but that doesn't mention the soaker era of plastic balls. Rob Nailed it most bowlers are poorly served by urethane compared to a modern ball.

[bowl1820]

I know high rev players are using more urethane but I want to know if any old schoolers are still throwing primarily urethane. Any of you lower rev strokers out there still rocking the urethane.

Old school stroking.

Well I'm low rev and have lower speed and have a real Urethane ball from back around that time(Faball Burgundy Hammer), If it's a real Urethane ball it will need some surface (and not a ton speed) to get it to read the lane if theres oil on the lane.

Now if it's dry, you'll need some speed and probably a more polished surface.

One thing to remember modern Urethane balls are not the same as ones from the 80-90's. Some are just super weak resin balls and the one that are urethane just aren't the same.


Unless you have a TON of ball speed, urethane is a really bad idea. Urethane reads the mid land really early, making it a bad choice for all but very high speed bowlers.

A "TON of ball speed"? Yes, if your attacking dry lanes. Which is what a lot bowlers are trying to use it for.

But if there's oil on the lanes, a Urethane with a ton of speed will look like a bullet going down the lane.

[santos314]

So the guy at my pro shop says the Black Hammer is true urethane today but was not back in the eighties. Is this true???

[bowl1820]

So the guy at my pro shop says the Black Hammer is true urethane today but was not back in the eighties. Is this true???

If by that you mean is the formulation of the Black Hammer Remake coverstock exactly the same as the original Black Hammer coverstock was back in the 80's? That I can't say.

Supposedly Hammer to make sure the Black Hammer Remake was a true urethane, shut down the plant and completely flushed out the lines to make sure no resin leftover got mixed in.

According to talk I've seen about today's Urethane, it's felt that it's not exactly the same. It may be pure Urethane, But the chemicals used, process etc. today are slightly different so they it comes out slightly different.

Another thing about the Black Hammer Remake, it doesn't have the same core as the original.

Black Hammer Org.
http://123bowl.com/123bowl/cache/file/E697386F-5197-4558-A4E697FED79BCB51.jpg

Black Hammer Remake has these cores:
http://d1p268mz1b2hyf.cloudfront.net/res/uploads/products/full/HMR_Urethane_Black_Core.png

Now I'm not going to say the remake will react totally different or exactly the same or be worse or better as the Org., I don't have either.

Now if your PSO means the Original wasn't true Urethane, What does he think it was?

[chip82901]

Lower rev/speed guys should seriously consider a Rotogrip Hot Cell if they are wanting to go urethane. Will give you more length like a urethane should, but with the asymmetric core, it doesn't hit like a urethane. It's the only urethane ball I've personally thrown recently that continues through the pins like a reactive ball would. I'm a higher rev/speed kind of guy, and it works well for me. But, I did see a couple of lower speed/rev guys playing with it, and it works extremely well.

[santos314]

Lower rev/speed guys should seriously consider a Rotogrip Hot Cell if they are wanting to go urethane. Will give you more length like a urethane should, but with the asymmetric core, it doesn't hit like a urethane. It's the only urethane ball I've personally thrown recently that continues through the pins like a reactive ball would. I'm a higher rev/speed kind of guy, and it works well for me. But, I did see a couple of lower speed/rev guys playing with it, and it works extremely well.

Yes! I was really curious about this ball. I almost bought it but the lower price made me think twice. I like the way you describe it and I have wanted a urethane since my Black Hammer days.

[C J]

Yes! I was really curious about this ball. I almost bought it but the lower price made me think twice. I like the way you describe it and I have wanted a urethane since my Black Hammer days.

Hot Cell lower price?? That's easily the most expensive urethane on the market and is priced with the top end reactive balls. If I were to get a urethane it would be the Hot Cell. But I'm not getting one anytime soon lol.

[santos314]

Hot Cell lower price?? That's easily the most expensive urethane on the market and is priced with the top end reactive balls. If I were to get a urethane it would be the Hot Cell. But I'm not getting one anytime soon lol.
LOL....oh my gosh, I was thinking you were talking about the Bullseye! I never heard that much praise about the Bullseye...lol. Yeah, the Hot Cell is definitely out of my budget!

[C J]

LOL....oh my gosh, I was thinking you were talking about the Bullseye! I never heard that much praise about the Bullseye...lol. Yeah, the Hot Cell is definitely out of my budget!

They are definitely proud of the Hot Cell with the price tag they have on it.

[1VegasBowler]

The Fanatic BTU solid is a better choice than urethane because it doesn't read as early as urethane, and if drilled properly it will have a much slower reaction to friction.

The coverstock on the BTU absorbs oil, where urethane doesn't.

[chip82901]

They are definitely proud of the Hot Cell with the price tag they have on it.

While yes, it does come with a higher price tag as it is in the HP4 lineup, it doesn't react like a urethane ball in my opinion. With most urethane balls, you have to play the angle game and get it to face up square otherwise you leave some strange things. Not the case with the Hot Cell. It hits a lot like a resin ball would. On a fresh THS in my home house, it will play about 5-7 boards right of my timeless, with the same break point. I actually treat it as a low end resin ball, move left as you normally would kind of deal. Works out well honestly. But, it is 1000 grit, when it finds friction, look out lol

[ALazySavage]

"Not the case with the Hot Cell. It hits a lot like a resin ball would. On a fresh THS in my home house, it will play about 5-7 boards right of my timeless, with the same break point. I actually treat it as a low end resin ball, move left as you normally would kind of deal. Works out well honestly. But, it is 1000 grit, when it finds friction, look out lol"

That is where my concern is with purchasing the ball, for the price point am I really getting something that I wouldn't perceive as a low-end resin ball if I was truly honest with myself. While the general thought is that Urethane is in a very specific group for usage; you also have to think about the differences in this ball versus those that created the perception. It is the only Asymmetric urethane of the major ones on the market, with the Pitch black it is the most aggressive cover prep (1000 grit); what it appears is that this is the first one that really embraces the fact that a urethane ball is meant for controlling the front end of the lane (which leads into the first problem that people throw urethane trying to delay the motion) and not to push through the dry to the spot.

Again, price point hurts on this one because I really feel it can be used by some but others are going to have a $200+ piece of equipment that can only be thrown on the most specific of situations.

[1VegasBowler]

"Not the case with the Hot Cell. It hits a lot like a resin ball would. On a fresh THS in my home house, it will play about 5-7 boards right of my timeless, with the same break point. I actually treat it as a low end resin ball, move left as you normally would kind of deal. Works out well honestly. But, it is 1000 grit, when it finds friction, look out lol"

That is where my concern is with purchasing the ball, for the price point am I really getting something that I wouldn't perceive as a low-end resin ball if I was truly honest with myself. While the general thought is that Urethane is in a very specific group for usage; you also have to think about the differences in this ball versus those that created the perception. It is the only Asymmetric urethane of the major ones on the market, with the Pitch black it is the most aggressive cover prep (1000 grit); what it appears is that this is the first one that really embraces the fact that a urethane ball is meant for controlling the front end of the lane (which leads into the first problem that people throw urethane trying to delay the motion) and not to push through the dry to the spot.

Again, price point hurts on this one because I really feel it can be used by some but others are going to have a $200+ piece of equipment that can only be thrown on the most specific of situations.

This is one of the reasons I love the BTU solid. The price point on this is great, it's very versatile and it takes surface changes extremely well.

Personally, I don't change my surfaces. I keep them OOB (except for my Pitbull 3000 w/polish) with many different drill angles, because once competition starts you cannot make any surface changes.

[chip82901]

"Not the case with the Hot Cell. It hits a lot like a resin ball would. On a fresh THS in my home house, it will play about 5-7 boards right of my timeless, with the same break point. I actually treat it as a low end resin ball, move left as you normally would kind of deal. Works out well honestly. But, it is 1000 grit, when it finds friction, look out lol"

That is where my concern is with purchasing the ball, for the price point am I really getting something that I wouldn't perceive as a low-end resin ball if I was truly honest with myself. While the general thought is that Urethane is in a very specific group for usage; you also have to think about the differences in this ball versus those that created the perception. It is the only Asymmetric urethane of the major ones on the market, with the Pitch black it is the most aggressive cover prep (1000 grit); what it appears is that this is the first one that really embraces the fact that a urethane ball is meant for controlling the front end of the lane (which leads into the first problem that people throw urethane trying to delay the motion) and not to push through the dry to the spot.

Again, price point hurts on this one because I really feel it can be used by some but others are going to have a $200+ piece of equipment that can only be thrown on the most specific of situations.

Honestly, in my home center, its ALL I THROW. From fresh, to when it starts breaking down, this is my ball. We are on a 40ft THS that just breaks down incredibly quick. I start around the 10 board, and might move inside to about 17-18 at the end of the night. I bowl in probably the toughest house in Wyoming as far as carry, and it does very well with the twister pins. You'd be surprised where this ball would fit in your arsenal

[C J]

I found out first hand how Urethane can make it slightly tougher for other players lol... We were on a shorter pattern tonight and a guy was throwing urethane and had a great look with it... For me, I had a great reaction in practice having 4 out of 5 flush pocket hits (I pulled one). Through first 5 frames I had a reliable reaction and in about the 6th frame my ball just started doing what it wanted to lol. Throw the ball in the same spot as the others and it would sail on me. Go out to the right a little and it would run Brooklyn or through the nose.. Changed balls and it was split city as I had a huge over under reaction going on... Finally started getting a reliable reaction I could trust in the last game and started striking....... Made me wish I had a urethane in my bag, my ball was doing all sorts of crazy stuff and other players seemed to have this problem occasionally as well so it wasn't just me..... Another player pulled out a urethane and buried the pocket on the first throw....... Reactive resin is going all over the place and urethane is crushing the pocket #YallGotAnymoreOfThatUrethane

Only reason I have trouble talking myself into a urethane is we have 1 pattern that we will play on twice (so 8 out of 32 weeks) that I MAY get to pull urethane out for. And unless somebody else is throwing urethane I have done fine on this pattern with reactive resin. Maybe I need to find a middle of the road solid that is less effected by carry down..... Either way, urethanes will go back in the bags next week... On to a long and heavy pattern lol.

[JaxBowlingGuy]

Urethane is for controlling the back end. It's meant to hook early and get into a roll to smooth out the backend. I see too many people trying to throw urethane when they really shouldn't. You need a decent bit of oil in the heads to delay the reaction of urethane. When the lanes a burned, is when you should go to a polished ball to clear the burned area and still retain as much energy on the backs. Also cover prep on urethane is different than reactive, it's actually pretty much the opposite. When used on shorter patterns the lower the grit the less reaction. Aside from a few outliers, generally speaking urethane would be for the shorter patterns.

[Amyers]

If your seeing carry down from the urethane the answer would be use something with some surface should take care of the problem

[C J]

If your seeing carry down from the urethane the answer would be use something with some surface should take care of the problem

That would be the only thing I could think was happening... The thought did cross my mind to pick up my Tyrant but the surface it's sitting at I tried 2 weeks ago on this pattern and it got 9 on almost every pocket hit, I guess it was burning too much energy going down the lane... Was leaving 4s, 7s, 9s, and a 10... Although I guess 9/ would have still been much better than what I was getting...... Wanting to get a middle of the road or less than top end strength solid for this, thinking about the Storm IQ Tour Edition.. What do you think about this one Amyers?

[C J]

Also, does Urethane seem to be a little less effected by carry down seeing as how it gets into that early roll and doesn't make its money off hitting the dry and flipping back to the pocket?? I know solids are less effected by it and was just curious if the same goes for Urethane. I know the guy throwing Urethane last night had no problems with reaction until he went to a reactive resin ball and threw it in his own carry down. He quickly went back to urethane... Just curious for future knowledge.

Thanks,
CJ