Pin Distance?

[mscurlock1914]

Ok guys and girls.

I would like to know the meaning of the distance of the pin in beginner terms. I used to be a shift manager in a bowling alley and was secretary of an arsenal league. A couple of the guys requested a certain pin distance. I was kinda confused as to what it means and what effect it has on rolling the ball. So, please, if someone could enlighten me in the significant information about this, it would be helpful.

[chip82901]

Ok guys and girls.

I would like to know the meaning of the distance of the pin in beginner terms. I used to be a shift manager in a bowling alley and was secretary of an arsenal league. A couple of the guys requested a certain pin distance. I was kinda confused as to what it means and what effect it has on rolling the ball. So, please, if someone could enlighten me in the significant information about this, it would be helpful.

The CG placement (and therefore the pin distance) tells you something about the internal weight distribution and the core placement. If you want a certain ball reaction/layout, a long or short pin (and also top weight) can be a "better" basis for the ball driller to achieve the intended result. Additionally, due to USBC rules some static weight limits have to be observed - and the CG placement/pin distance can limit you in your plans or require additional adjustments (balance holes, deeper finger or thumb) which can be avoided with a proper ball choice. But it's already sophisticated stuff - a certain pin distance does not make a ball "better", rather more suitable for your plans.

[bowl1820]

Ok guys and girls.

I would like to know the meaning of the distance of the pin in beginner terms. I used to be a shift manager in a bowling alley and was secretary of an arsenal league. A couple of the guys requested a certain pin distance. I was kinda confused as to what it means and what effect it has on rolling the ball. So, please, if someone could enlighten me in the significant information about this, it would be helpful.

There are two "Pin distances" that are commonly referred too in regard to balls, "Pin to CG" & "Pin to PAP".

"Pin to CG" is the measurement from the balls Pin (which locates the top of the core) to the balls Center of Gravity (CG), This measurement is typically only referred to when ordering a ball.

Different pin to cg lengths can make it easier to use different layouts. Too Short or too Long pin to cg distances can limit layout options.

When ordering a ball a 3"-4" pin to cg length is a pretty standard range and it will let you use most layouts.

Some drillers like to use:
Short pin lengths for pin down layouts (pins below the fingers) layouts. Long pin lengths for pin up layouts (pin above the fingers) layouts.

In connection with this you might also hear the terms "Pin-In" or "Pin-Out"

A Pin-in ball is when the pin is located within two inches of the CG. A Pin-out ball is when the pin is located more than two inches from the CG.

(You see Pin-in/out) come up in connection with 2nd's (Blems,X-outs etc) typically)

"Pin to PAP" is the measurement from the balls Pin to the bowlers Positive Axis Point (P.A.P.), this is used in connection with laying out the ball.

Most simply put "Pin to PAP" distance determines how much flare a ball has ( how stable a position the core is in), Close to the PAP more stable, farther away less stable.

There's a lot more to "Pin to PAP" than that, Like whether the ball is Symmetrical or Asymmetrical, how it affects the Radius of Gyration (RG) etc.

[mishatx]

Based on this video that Storm shared this morning, is there really much of a difference? https://www.facebook.com/alex.hoskins.31/posts/1590233581039937

[bowl1820]

Based on this video that Storm shared this morning, is there really much of a difference? https://www.facebook.com/alex.hoskins.31/posts/1590233581039937


That video is just a rehash/remake (Brunswick did a similar video years ago) its for the old CG doesn't matter discussion (which has been pretty much layed to rest), which was about the usbc CG placement rules and if it has a affect on ball motion, which isn't what this post is about.

[bowl1820]

Talk Bowling Episode 9 - Pin Lengths, Pro Pins, Pro CG's Defined
In this episode pin lengths, i.e., the distance of the pin from the CG (center of gravity) is discussed in detail. Pin in, pin out, Pro Pins, Pro CG's and the pro and cons. Also discussed is the misconception that a pin in hooks less and a pin out bowling ball hooks more.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=upQpXgNL2JI

[mishatx]

That video is just a rehash/remake (Brunswick did a similar video years ago) its for the old CG doesn't matter discussion (which has been pretty much layed to rest), which was about the usbc CG placement rules and if it has a affect on ball motion, which isn't what this post is about.

But if CG location doesn't matter, and what does matter is Pin-to-PAP, does Pin-to-CG really matter at all? You and the video say that certain pin-to-cg lengths allow for more drilling options, but I'm not clear on why.

[RobLV1]

But if CG location doesn't matter, and what does matter is Pin-to-PAP, does Pin-to-CG really matter at all? You and the video say that certain pin-to-cg lengths allow for more drilling options, but I'm not clear on why.

It all has to do with staying compliant with the USBC's prehistoric static weight rules. If you know the layout that you want to use, then the correct pin to cg distance (for that layout) will allow you to use the layout while still complying with the static weight requirements.

[bowl1820]

But if CG location doesn't matter, and what does matter is Pin-to-PAP, does Pin-to-CG really matter at all? You and the video say that certain pin-to-cg lengths allow for more drilling options, but I'm not clear on why.

Like Rob said the "Pin to CG" measurement is mainly important because your ball has to meet USBC rules regarding how much Side weight, Finger weight & Top weight a ball can have.

If you have a "Pin to CG" measurement that is extremely one way or the other, it could cause those weights to be too high. Depending on the layout your wanting to use.

Then you would either have to change the layout your trying to use and/or add a Balance hole or drill the finger or thumb holes deeper to try and remove the excess weight to make it legal.

All of which might be things you don't want to do for one reason or the other. So ordering a ball with the right "Pin to CG" measurement can make things a lot easier for layout and drilling.

A example of what could happen with a extreme "Pin to CG" measurement would be a ball like I had, It was a Gunsmoke Cobra that had a 11" "Pin to CG" measurement.

To layout that ball I had to use the "Negative Pin" (aka Anti pin) location. That's where you project the Pin 180° around the ball and then use that location as the Pin (because it's closer to the CG) to layout the ball.

[mscurlock1914]

I see that I will be getting a lot of knowledge from you guys. I’ve pretty much got the same info that the pin distance is really more of a personal preference than anything. I did hear that too weight is a more solid factor. The heavier, the better. Personally, if it rolls down the lane, I’ll make it hook and strike. Thanks for all the information. Although I would love to hear about the convos about top weight. Lol.

[bowl1820]

I see that I will be getting a lot of knowledge from you guys. I’ve pretty much got the same info that the pin distance is really more of a personal preference than anything. I did hear that too weight is a more solid factor. The heavier, the better. Personally, if it rolls down the lane, I’ll make it hook and strike. Thanks for all the information. Although I would love to hear about the convos about top weight. Lol.

Top weight is extra weight that is added to the ball to compensate for the weight removed by drilling the finger holes. the top weight of a undrilled balls can vary. 2-3oz top weight, or 3-4oz top weight are pretty common.

If you have the org. boxes your other balls came in, just look on the label it should have it on there.

Top weight is similiar to the pin to cg measurement in that it could have a bearing on the static weights and the layout you plan to use. Such as a high top weight with a short pin could limit layout options.

Most balls though come in a pretty standard range though.

Example:
A ball with a 3-4" pin and 2-3oz. of top weight. would work for most typical layouts.

Also the old idea was that the amount of top weight used made the ball go longer down the lane and snap a bit more on the backend. But the Usbc studies showed that this like the cg had very little effect on the balls motion, but there are those that still subscribe to the idea.