Flare variance between two balls

[Phonetek]

I opened up the thumb on my Faball blue Hammer so I could finally use it. I went one game with it and one with my reactive ball. I noticed something odd when I cam home to clean them. The reactive ball had more flair on the oil track, several oil lines with a tiny gap starting just left of the thumb hole moving outward.

The blue Hammer had more like one thick oil line all just left of the thumb but no gap. The first oil line on the reactive ball was in the exact same place away from the finger and thumb holes as it was on the Hammer. I really never paid any attention before, why such a difference in the track width when I'm throwing them exactly the same?

[bowl1820]

I opened up the thumb on my Faball blue Hammer so I could finally use it. I went one game with it and one with my reactive ball. I noticed something odd when I cam home to clean them. The reactive ball had more flair on the oil track, several oil lines with a tiny gap starting just left of the thumb hole moving outward.

The blue Hammer had more like one thick oil line all just left of the thumb but no gap. The first oil line on the reactive ball was in the exact same place away from the finger and thumb holes as it was on the Hammer. I really never paid any attention before, why such a difference in the track width when I'm throwing them exactly the same?

The flare rings are farther apart mainly do to the balls having a different RG differentials, the old Hammer has a lower differential than the newer Reactive ball.

https://static1.squarespace.com/static/566958aaa2bab823921a87dd/t/56fa70ff20c647316dd5382b/1459253512007/


The RG Differential (aka:The Differential), Shows the difference between the low RG and the high RG. This differential indicates the potential for track flare. The lower the differential the closer together the track flare rings are and The higher the differential the further apart the track flare rings are.

Bowling Ball Track Flare Explained:
http://blueprintbowling.com/Documents/Bowling%20Ball%20Track%20Flare%20Explained.pdf

[Phonetek]

The PDF you attached is a wealth of information. If I understand this correctly in simple terms, flare is based mainly on the characteristics of the ball (for starters). By using different drilling layouts you can change the effect shape and width of the flare. Last night I wasn't throwing either ball differently so the flare results I seen weren't different because of me. As the bowler you can't change the amount of flare the ball has unless changing speed and rev rate. But, different wrist / hand / finger position will change the location of the oil track but the flare will remain constant without changing speed or rev rate. Am I making sense or am I not even close?

[bowl1820]

Yes the amount of flare potential (call it the Max Flare) a ball can potentially achieve is defined by the design of the core. How much of that you can achieved is dictated by the drilling and the amount of revolutions you the bowler can generate (The more revolutions you can generate, the more flare you can get.).

Say If a ball has a 6" flare potential, That means that distance from the first oil ring to the last ring of oil can be up to 6" inches. But to get that you have to drill it for max flare and be able to generate the revs needed to get that much flare.

[Phonetek]

This is all starting to make sense now. I see how knowing this can help me choose a proper arsenal too. It's been difficult trying figure all this stuff out but I guess I just had to ask the right question to go along with a scenario of my own with something I could actually see to make it click. I can read about stuff all day and take nothing out of it. Visuals make all the difference for me. Thanks

[Eddy]

Bowl1820 is a true asset to this site. I appreciate his insight and knowledge of bowling as I try to work my way back into relevance. I learn a little bit more every time I read his posts.

[Phonetek]

Bowl1820 is a true asset to this site. I appreciate his insight and knowledge of bowling as I try to work my way back into relevance. I learn a little bit more every time I read his posts.

I agree, I feel I should start each thread. "Here's my question this time Bowl1820...." because I know he's gonna likely be the one to answer it. LOL It's a good thing though, I think I've learned more about bowling (off the lanes) in the last month and a half since I joined here than I have in the 30 yrs I've been doing it. I didn't realize there was that much information out there or should I say that much I didn't know about the sport. On the upside, I've done pretty well at it being as absent minded as I have been all these years LOL

[boatman37]

It's funny. We normally don't think about how the internet has changed our lives. Having such a large gap in my bowling career I see it now. I left in 2002. Sure there was internet but no Google or youtube and likely no forums like this to get help. I knew how to roll strikes and pick up spares, that was about it. And I was pretty good at it. Now I see that my approach is horrible and my old ball wasn't drilled properly...lol

[Phonetek]

Same kinda thing with making the video's. We didn't just whip out a cell phone in 1984 to record ourselves especial in high res. I have a couple VHS tapes around of me bowling as a kid. It was a huge production to do it. My friends dad had to bring this giant camcorder that was twice the size of 3 ball roller, a tripod and a big huge light like a shop light and some heavy duty extension cords. People thought we were filming a documentary about youth bowling LOL We weren't done yet, then we had to go home and use a VHS adapter and two VCR to transfer it to a regular VHS. Only back then the GOOD VCR's had slow motion. Now, nobody even pays any attention to you whipping out a phone or ipad to record by touching one button.

Honestly, if time stood still in bowling as it was back then I wouldn't mind. You had to be really good to average 200. Most of all, you HAD to know how to keep score! Now...there's an app for that. I'm starting to feel like an old geezer

Boy did this thread go WAY off subject LOL How do you go from talking ball flare to VHS tapes? Oh well, all good.

[boatman37]

Yeah. back then if you had a 200 average you were a rock star. we had about 3 or 4, maybe 5 bowlers with a 200 average back then and the highest average was about 207. my current league we have at least 20 that are over 200 average (7 over 220) and the highest is about 228. from what i have been told the difference is the synthetic lanes and more forgiving and effective bowling balls

[Phonetek]

Yeah. back then if you had a 200 average you were a rock star. we had about 3 or 4, maybe 5 bowlers with a 200 average back then and the highest average was about 207. my current league we have at least 20 that are over 200 average (7 over 220) and the highest is about 228. from what i have been told the difference is the synthetic lanes and more forgiving and effective bowling balls

Yes the game has definitely change and the averages are much higher from what I hear. I haven't gotten out there on any leagues or competition just yet to know first hand. I gotta get my new stuff first. I'd like to check out these "220+" guys out here to see if just why they are at that level. Skill or technology? I know in the past when you ran across your basic ringer because of technology most times you could still beat them because they'd usually choke under pressure when skill was required to win.

I'm looking forward to getting out into this new world of bowling and seeing all the challenges that I have to face ahead.

[RobLV1]

Yeah. back then if you had a 200 average you were a rock star. we had about 3 or 4, maybe 5 bowlers with a 200 average back then and the highest average was about 207. my current league we have at least 20 that are over 200 average (7 over 220) and the highest is about 228. from what i have been told the difference is the synthetic lanes and more forgiving and effective bowling balls

You've missed the biggest difference: the oil patterns. Today the USBC does nothing to monitor or control how the oil is applied to the lane. The only rule the USBC has is that there must be at least three units of oil from gutter to gutter for the length of the pattern. Modern bowling balls don't even recognize three units of oil, and the USBC doesn't monitor individual bowling centers other than once a year at a predetermined time, so the rule is basically useless. On a "Typical House Shot" there is relatively heavy oil applied from the second arrow to the second arrow, with less oil to the outside. If you have a mediocre bowler playing the second arrow with a modern bowling ball that hooks all by itself, if he misses to the outside, the ball hits more friction and hooks back to the pocket. If he misses to the inside, the ball skids further in the oil and stays in the pocket. This is why there are so many inflated averages today; the balls combined with the oil patterns have all but eliminated the need for accuracy.

[boatman37]

You've missed the biggest difference: the oil patterns. Today the USBC does nothing to monitor or control how the oil is applied to the lane. The only rule the USBC has is that there must be at least three units of oil from gutter to gutter for the length of the pattern. Modern bowling balls don't even recognize three units of oil, and the USBC doesn't monitor individual bowling centers other than once a year at a predetermined time, so the rule is basically useless. On a "Typical House Shot" there is relatively heavy oil applied from the second arrow to the second arrow, with less oil to the outside. If you have a mediocre bowler playing the second arrow with a modern bowling ball that hooks all by itself, if he misses to the outside, the ball hits more friction and hooks back to the pocket. If he misses to the inside, the ball skids further in the oil and stays in the pocket. This is why there are so many inflated averages today; the balls combined with the oil patterns have all but eliminated the need for accuracy.

Highly likely but I know very little about oil patterns so didn't mention it. I rarely bowled in tournaments or different centers unless it was a high school tournament so just did what I did every week, give or take a few boards. I do know in the 6 weeks I have been back I have yet to see any oil on my ball and lots of bowlers commenting about how dry it is. I have been trying to see the track out of curiosity but can't see it. My typical shot is anywhere from the first arrow to the second arrow. Seems like if I can hit anywhere between them I can hit the pocket. If I throw 3rd arrow my ball won't come back. I could probably adjust to make it work but don't really see a need to so far.

[Phonetek]

You've missed the biggest difference: the oil patterns. Today the USBC does nothing to monitor or control how the oil is applied to the lane. The only rule the USBC has is that there must be at least three units of oil from gutter to gutter for the length of the pattern. Modern bowling balls don't even recognize three units of oil, and the USBC doesn't monitor individual bowling centers other than once a year at a predetermined time, so the rule is basically useless. On a "Typical House Shot" there is relatively heavy oil applied from the second arrow to the second arrow, with less oil to the outside. If you have a mediocre bowler playing the second arrow with a modern bowling ball that hooks all by itself, if he misses to the outside, the ball hits more friction and hooks back to the pocket. If he misses to the inside, the ball skids further in the oil and stays in the pocket. This is why there are so many inflated averages today; the balls combined with the oil patterns have all but eliminated the need for accuracy.

Is it that bad? You almost make it sound like it's a waste of time and money or lost cause for skilled bowlers because Joe bowlers ball is on auto pilot. Did I pick the wrong time to come back to the sport? Next time I go I'll try purposely missing 12 times a row and see if I can get a perfect game. =)

[bowl1820]

Is it that bad? You almost make it sound like it's a waste of time and money or lost cause for skilled bowlers because Joe bowlers ball is on auto pilot. Did I pick the wrong time to come back to the sport? Next time I go I'll try purposely missing 12 times a row and see if I can get a perfect game. =)

No you didn't pick the wrong time to come back, I've been on all the boards for 20+ years and they said same things back then when I started.

Not to say that today's conditions and equipment don't help bowlers to a degree. But go into most regular houses, the majority of bowlers are not sitting around wishing for tougher conditions, they don't have 200+ averages. They figure they'll never have a 200 average, but they are wishing to God that they could at least shoot one 300 game in their life.

And frankly most of the ones that are complaining about the "easy" conditions, if they got their wish and it was harder. They would be complaining because their averages would go plop! (Which you can see happen, when bowlers go to a sport/challenge league and bowl on harder conditions for the first time. )

[Phonetek]

No you didn't pick the wrong time to come back, I've been on all the boards for 20+ years and they said same things back then when I started.

Not to say that today's conditions and equipment don't help bowlers to a degree. But go into most regular houses, the majority of bowlers are not sitting around wishing for tougher conditions, they don't have 200+ averages. They figure they'll never have a 200 average, but they are wishing to God that they could at least shoot one 300 game in their life.

And frankly most of the ones that are complaining about the "easy" conditions, if they got their wish and it was harder. They would be complaining because their averages would go plop! (Which you can see happen, when bowlers go to a sport/challenge league and bowl on harder conditions for the first time. )

Yeah, that has been going on forever. Most of those guys are just blow hards, I've dealt with my share in the past. Some things never change. Personally I'll bowl on whatever the conditions are and do my best. Even if conditions are considered "easy" that doesn't apply to everyone. Some people can dominate better on a sport or pba pattern vs. THS, it all depends on the bowler. In my personal experience I've struggled the most on mid level oil conditions more than anything. I've scored best on bone dry and or soaked lanes.

If people REALLY want difficult conditions then the Peterson Classic tournament used to be where it was at. 100yr old warped lanes, offset racks, pins off spot, oil sprayed on certain areas and wiped off from others. Your ball would zig zag down the lane. It was all done on purpose to make it hard. You're ball and hands were filthy by the end of the night. Now THAT was anything but easy. I think the tournament still exists but the place where it used to be held was decrepit and was demolished some years ago. I'm not sure the re-creation is as good as the authentic original.

EDIT: In case you were wondering the tournament was in Chicago at least back then. I'm not sure where it's at now. It's still in IL but in one of the northern burbs.

[boatman37]

Is it that bad? You almost make it sound like it's a waste of time and money or lost cause for skilled bowlers because Joe bowlers ball is on auto pilot. Did I pick the wrong time to come back to the sport? Next time I go I'll try purposely missing 12 times a row and see if I can get a perfect game. =)

No, that won't work. I've missed my mark 12 times in a row (and not on purpose) and no 300 :)

[Phonetek]

No, that won't work. I've missed my mark 12 times in a row (and not on purpose) and no 300 :)

LMAO, It may only work with righty's

[mattmc82]

Yeah, that has been going on forever. Most of those guys are just blow hards, I've dealt with my share in the past. Some things never change. Personally I'll bowl on whatever the conditions are and do my best. Even if conditions are considered "easy" that doesn't apply to everyone. Some people can dominate better on a sport or pba pattern vs. THS, it all depends on the bowler. In my personal experience I've struggled the most on mid level oil conditions more than anything. I've scored best on bone dry and or soaked lanes.

If people REALLY want difficult conditions then the Peterson Classic tournament used to be where it was at. 100yr old warped lanes, offset racks, pins off spot, oil sprayed on certain areas and wiped off from others. Your ball would zig zag down the lane. It was all done on purpose to make it hard. You're ball and hands were filthy by the end of the night. Now THAT was anything but easy. I think the tournament still exists but the place where it used to be held was decrepit and was demolished some years ago. I'm not sure the re-creation is as good as the authentic original.

EDIT: In case you were wondering the tournament was in Chicago at least back then. I'm not sure where it's at now. It's still in IL but in one of the northern burbs.

This sounds like my league. Filthy lanes, pins are water logged / dead, they only strip once a month to the pins (not to the end) so you see pins sliding instead of falling (had a 6 pin end up in the 7 position last week) and of course sticky and gross all over to the point we have had people jam their knee on their approach and fall head first into the lane.

I wish I had a more “modern” house for a league home for sure. But the averages play out. Top 5 averages range from 150-165. Have had maybe 5 200 games all season between 32 bowlers and we are in week 7.

I invite anyone to come out. Don’t care what your average is. $100 says you can’t get a 600 series.

[boatman37]

This sounds like my league. Filthy lanes, pins are water logged / dead, they only strip once a month to the pins (not to the end) so you see pins sliding instead of falling (had a 6 pin end up in the 7 position last week) and of course sticky and gross all over to the point we have had people jam their knee on their approach and fall head first into the lane.

I wish I had a more “modern” house for a league home for sure. But the averages play out. Top 5 averages range from 150-165. Have had maybe 5 200 games all season between 32 bowlers and we are in week 7.

I invite anyone to come out. Don’t care what your average is. $100 says you can’t get a 600 series.

That stinks. Glad we don't have those conditions. You bowled at our lanes so you see how it compares. We have about 90 bowlers in our league (17 teams, 5 per team) and about 30 or so have 200+ averages (just counting those worth over 20 games I came up with 29) and about 7 over 220.

[Phonetek]

This sounds like my league. Filthy lanes, pins are water logged / dead, they only strip once a month to the pins (not to the end) so you see pins sliding instead of falling (had a 6 pin end up in the 7 position last week) and of course sticky and gross all over to the point we have had people jam their knee on their approach and fall head first into the lane.

I wish I had a more “modern” house for a league home for sure. But the averages play out. Top 5 averages range from 150-165. Have had maybe 5 200 games all season between 32 bowlers and we are in week 7.

I invite anyone to come out. Don’t care what your average is. $100 says you can’t get a 600 series.

Sounds like the proprietor has given up on the place. That's sad

[JasonNJ]

Too many league bowlers now a day just complain about lane conditions and don't acknowledge how easy the THS really is. A good majority don't even understand how the oil is laid out and get upset when they don't carry Brooklyns.

I can't tell you how often during the season, I hear the lanes are flooded, the lanes are too dry, the lanes hook too much, the lanes don't hook enough and how they complain the lane guy doesn't know what he's doing. And instead of people adjusting to what the lanes are telling them, they just keep trying to throw up 10 and think they should strike every time.

[J Anderson]

I would love to start a campaign to stop describing lanes as wet or dry. I bowl with some one who gets to the alley very early, watches the pair that we will be bowling on, and/or asks people from those lanes how the condition are. Invaiably I walk in and get told one of four things:
The lanes are dry.
The lanes are wet.
One lane is dry and the other is very dry.
One lane is wet and the other is very wet.

In reality, he is only describing the track area, and given the tendency for bowlers misinterpreting a ball that reads too early and rolls out as a sign of too much oil, this info may or may not be correct and is only slightly helpful.

Unfortunately such a campaign would be even less sucessful than RobM’s fight to stop calling balls “strong” or “weak.”

[mattmc82]

Too many league bowlers now a day just complain about lane conditions and don't acknowledge how easy the THS really is. A good majority don't even understand how the oil is laid out and get upset when they don't carry Brooklyns.

I can't tell you how often during the season, I hear the lanes are flooded, the lanes are too dry, the lanes hook too much, the lanes don't hook enough and how they complain the lane guy doesn't know what he's doing. And instead of people adjusting to what the lanes are telling them, they just keep trying to throw up 10 and think they should strike every time.

some get upset that they leave a 7 or 10 when they smash the head pin. (always with throwing their arms up like come on). its funny to watch but frustrating when they string 4 or 5 strikes together

[mattmc82]

Sounds like the proprietor has given up on the place. That's sad

they are more focused on the "night club" portion of the lanes. (they tore out 20 of the 30 lanes to build a stage and bar). we only have it there because we are unorganized and always start league in January.

[Phonetek]

That's terrible, it should have been the other way around. Apparently they have no love for the sport just catering to the drunks. God knows no matter what town you live in drunks and bars are always hard to find. You can almost swing a cat by the tail without smack one with it on any given weekend.