Need Help + Advice 2!

[larossho]

Hey everyone! This is just a video of me bowling today at the local alley! I bowled 4 games (115,148,154,135) on a typical house shot + our alley was a bit on the dry side today. The video is from the last game. I bowl with a Snap Lock (15 Lb) and a Brunswick Axis (14 Lb) as my spare ball. The Snap Lock is drilled fingertip while my Axis is drilled sarge easter grip. Anyways, any advice on what I should practice... I think that I tend to tug the ball and its really hard for me to keep my hand behind my ball at the bottom of the swing since my wrists tends to give out and my form is probably off. I'm thinking about probably buying a new bowling ball like the Quantum Black or Hyroad, Magnitude 55, Torrent, Matchup, Joyride etc and deciding whether if i should use a 14 or stick with a 15... Feel free to leave me your thoughts and opinions! I'm really looking forward to hearing from all of you!

This link is a picture of how my Snap Lock and Brunswick Axis are drilled.
https://imgur.com/a/P1vVw

This is a Youtube Link to the video of me bowling.
https://youtu.be/4zX9xt1R5fU

[boatman37]

Hard to say from that video. Form doesn't look that bad to me from what I can see. It does look like you are slightly turned and your shoulders look like they stayed turned until your last step. Not sure if that is causing any release issues. Are you hitting your mark consistently? If you watch my video I don't really stay 'behind' the ball on my release. It more or less rolls off my fingertips. I don't cup my hand and cradle the ball if that is what you mean?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PTn52BT-XZI&t=24s

[larossho]

Hard to say from that video. Form doesn't look that bad to me from what I can see. It does look like you are slightly turned and your shoulders look like they stayed turned until your last step. Not sure if that is causing any release issues. Are you hitting your mark consistently? If you watch my video I don't really stay 'behind' the ball on my release. It more or less rolls off my fingertips. I don't cup my hand and cradle the ball if that is what you mean?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PTn52BT-XZI&t=24s

Hmm no... I’m not constantly hitting my mark. I also noticed that I’m bending my thumb at the bottom of my swing. Even just at home and I’m holding at ball at the bottom my thumb is bent and it turns on the side of my thumb. Could my thumb hole be too big or not drilled correctly?

[mattmc82]

Hmm no... I’m not constantly hitting my mark. I also noticed that I’m bending my thumb at the bottom of my swing. Even just at home and I’m holding at ball at the bottom my thumb is bent and it turns on the side of my thumb. Could my thumb hole be too big or not drilled correctly?

Sounds like it is definitely too big. It should be snug. Try some bowling tape but if you’re able to bend your thumb your span is probably too short

[boatman37]

yeah, not sure how you are bending your thumb? i have a ball sitting here that the thumbhole is too big and i can't bend it. i can wiggle it but thats about it. have your PSO check it out.

[The Average Bowler]

Based on the video you posted, here are a couple of tips for you. First, be sure to maintain your form after you release the ball and continue with your follow through. If you come out of follow through quickly, this typically means your balance is off and it can effect your shot release and ball motion.

Second at the bottom of your arm swing (when your arm, ball and left leg are all lined up with each other) just before your point of release, try to feel the weight of the ball on your finger tips. This may help you to stay behind the ball and improve the rotation on your ball for it finish stronger.

Hope this helps. Good luck and good bowling!

[larossho]

Sounds like it is definitely too big. It should be snug. Try some bowling tape but if you’re able to bend your thumb your span is probably too short

Yeah maybe. Check this out this is how my thumb feels inside my bowling ball and this is my span.
https://imgur.com/a/PNeIw

[michiganbowlingcoach]

A beginner bowler with 2 different drilling sounds a terrible plan. Why the 2 different drilling? And why do you think a new ball will help. Ask the people at the counter for a bowling coach. They should have someone they could point you to. the new ball won't help you but a good coach WILL.

[larossho]

A beginner bowler with 2 different drilling sounds a terrible plan. Why the 2 different drilling? And why do you think a new ball will help. Ask the people at the counter for a bowling coach. They should have someone they could point you to. the new ball won't help you but a good coach WILL.

I'd consider myself an amateur. Why 2 different drilling... because i was still trying to find a drilling layout that i felt comfortable with 2 years ago. i have a fingertip grip on my Lock because its universal and if i ever had to sell it it would be a quick sell and ultimately i wanted to learn it, play on the inside part of the lane and watch that ball curve. I had gotten my Axis used for $15 and i figured why not plug it and try different a layout.. I haven't bought any other ball ever since then. Why buy a new ball now? Maybe the Lock is too much for our bowling alley or on THS. Our house is on the dryer side of things and its the only bowling alley we have here. If i were to buy a new ball I'd probably drop one pound and get something that's for our drier lanes and stick to finger tip + probably buy a urethane or polyester ball with the same drilling. There aren't any coaches in my area. I'd have to drive for 2.5 hours to meet with one. Its tough when you only have one PSO that doesn't bother watching you bowl to help recommend a layout or any coaches in the area.

[Phonetek]

I'd consider myself an amateur. Why 2 different drilling... because i was still trying to find a drilling layout that i felt comfortable with 2 years ago. i have a fingertip grip on my Lock because its universal and if i ever had to sell it it would be a quick sell and ultimately i wanted to learn it, play on the inside part of the lane and watch that ball curve. I had gotten my Axis used for $15 and i figured why not plug it and try different a layout.. I haven't bought any other ball ever since then. Why buy a new ball now? Maybe the Lock is too much for our bowling alley or on THS. Our house is on the dryer side of things and its the only bowling alley we have here. If i were to buy a new ball I'd probably drop one pound and get something that's for our drier lanes and stick to finger tip + probably buy a urethane or polyester ball with the same drilling. There aren't any coaches in my area. I'd have to drive for 2.5 hours to meet with one. Its tough when you only have one PSO that doesn't bother watching you bowl to help recommend a layout or any coaches in the area.

This may be a stupid question but what is universal drilling? Do you mean because it has inserts and a thumb slug? I would think it would only be universal for someone with a similar span because inserts can be changed am I right? Or are you talking about something else?

[JasonNJ]

There looks to be a gap of space where the back of your thumb is, to me that's way too big. There should be almost no space and the thumb should be snug. Beginners usually end up with thumb holes way too big because of the transition from house balls where the holes are enormous and you get into the habit of squeezing. Then when they get their own ball, they always think the thumbhole is too small and they keep getting enlarged because they are squeezing. Also your span looks a little short to me. Too much space between your palm and the ball.


In your most relaxed grip, do you feel like the ball will fall off your hand during your backswing? My advice, find the best pro shop in your area and have them check your span and grip. My guess is they need to be adjusted and once you have a better grip, the 15lb would be more comfortable and you'll be able to stay behind the ball better.

[larossho]

This may be a stupid question but what is universal drilling? Do you mean because it has inserts and a thumb slug? I would think it would only be universal for someone with a similar span because inserts can be changed am I right? Or are you talking about something else?

I meant universal as in it’s like a standard drilling lay out for a right handed bowler. If you needed the span to be longer then just buy the inner mold and have a PSO still it to your comfort + you could switch out the inners with no issues.

[larossho]

There looks to be a gap of space where the back of your thumb is, to me that's way too big. There should be almost no space and the thumb should be snug. Beginners usually end up with thumb holes way too big because of the transition from house balls where the holes are enormous and you get into the habit of squeezing. Then when they get their own ball, they always think the thumbhole is too small and they keep getting enlarged because they are squeezing. Also your span looks a little short to me. Too much space between your palm and the ball.


In your most relaxed grip, do you feel like the ball will fall off your hand during your backswing? My advice, find the best pro shop in your area and have them check your span and grip. My guess is they need to be adjusted and once you have a better grip, the 15lb would be more comfortable and you'll be able to stay behind the ball better.

Yeah I think so! When my hand is falling back down from gravity I have the tendency to just bend my thumb to prevent it from falling out. I actually went and talked to my PSO today! He check my span and sure enough it was short. He showed me a ball and asked me to swing it and it was somewhat perfect... I couldn’t bend my thumb since my span was long. It felt nice not perfect but nice. I was swinging a 16 pound Rhino and it felt lighter than my 15 pound Lock due to the longer span. So I’m going to have to sell my Snap Lock... since he told me that he won’t be able to fix the interchangeable thumb since he doesn’t have the tools to do so. What do you think about this... should I buy a bowling ball from his shop. There’s one priced at $209 with free drilling included or do I buy one online? It’s priced $125 online. Drilling is $30, inserts are $12 and a slug is $15. I think he includes taxes as well...

[Amyers]

Yeah I think so! When my hand is falling back down from gravity I have the tendency to just bend my thumb to prevent it from falling out. I actually went and talked to my PSO today! He check my span and sure enough it was short. He showed me a ball and asked me to swing it and it was somewhat perfect... I couldn’t bend my thumb since my span was long. It felt nice not perfect but nice. I was swinging a 16 pound Rhino and it felt lighter than my 15 pound Lock due to the longer span. So I’m going to have to sell my Snap Lock... since he told me that he won’t be able to fix the interchangeable thumb since he doesn’t have the tools to do so. What do you think about this... should I buy a bowling ball from his shop. There’s one priced at $209 with free drilling included or do I buy one online? It’s priced $125 online. Drilling is $30, inserts are $12 and a slug is $15. I think he includes taxes as well...

In my opinion $27 isn't to much to support your local shop even less if he's including taxes if you trust the PSO but that's just me. What ball are you looking at?

[mattmc82]

Who drilled your first ball incorrectly?

[larossho]

In my opinion $27 isn't to much to support your local shop even less if he's including taxes if you trust the PSO but that's just me. What ball are you looking at?

So would you recommend me buying a ball online then? Honestly the Brunswick Black Quantum, he said that thatll be good in our lanes + he recommended me buying entry level bowling balls that are pearlized + he told me that he has a roto grip hot cell that he could plug + drill for $100 bucks supposedly only bowled 20 games with that I could use for spares + dry lanes. I could go with a honey badger down the line. I don’t know... I need help. Should I switch brands? I’ve had been with Storm for 2~ years now. I’ve heard people say just stick to a particular brand.

[larossho]

Who drilled your first ball incorrectly?

He had drilled my Snap Lock, but I went to another PSO in another city and I asked him if he could install an interchangeable thumb. That was my fault.

[Amyers]

So would you recommend me buying a ball online then? Honestly the Brunswick Black Quantum, he said that thatll be good in our lanes + he recommended me buying entry level bowling balls that are pearlized + he told me that he has a roto grip hot cell that he could plug + drill for $100 bucks supposedly only bowled 20 games with that I could use for spares + dry lanes. I could go with a honey badger down the line. I don’t know... I need help. Should I switch brands? I’ve had been with Storm for 2~ years now. I’ve heard people say just stick to a particular brand.

I would not purchase a hot cell as a spare ball. The Hot cell has an asymmetric core and has a large backend reaction if you have much hand at all it's not your average urethane ball. I really wouldn't say the quantum is a entry level ball but it would be fine. Doesn't sound like your saving much buying online I'd probably give my business to the proshop but that's just me. I tend to buy my cleaners, pads, tape things like that online and buy my balls from my local PSO.

Brand is more a personal thing than anything I tend towards Brunswick equipment mainly because I have friends who are staffers for them. I do think it's somewhat easier building an arsenal from one family of brands than splitting it up between multiples but that's a small benefit at best and only a consideration if your planning a larger arsenal.

[JasonNJ]

Right now, all brands make good bowling balls so brands is really just a personal preference. I recently decided to go all Radical and the reason for that I just feel they support their bowlers the best. They have a Facebook page for Radical Fans and the owner and the designer of the bowling balls are always on there answering questions. My last 3 bowling balls I bought were Radical and I asked Mo Pinel the designer of the balls how to lay them out.

[JasonNJ]

If your local PSO isn't willing to watch you bowl and get your personal PAP, I honestly don't think he's a great PSO.


My advice, use this link and find an IBSIA certified pro shop in your area. Even if the place is a ways away, a good pro shop is worth it. Just make an appointment with them

http://www.ibpsia.com/go/find_shop

Insist on them finding your PAP and have them redo your grip. Including thumbhole size and pitches. I would also drop the sarge easter grip since its supposed to reduce your rev rate.

[mattmc82]

Not sure I’d trust a PSO to drill my ball that recommends a hot cell as a spare tbh. And if he originally drilled it adding a switch grip shouldn’t have made the span shorter. Or was it drilled conventional(not fingertip) originally?

If I was you, I would take his offer on the hot cell because once you start getting the hang of things you’ll need a ball like that and that is a good price. I would compliment that by ordering of the middle of the road balls that Jaxbowling (that’s his user handle on this board) is selling. Check out the marketplace section on this board it’s the first thread.

I am going to get the yeah baby and make that my middle of the road ball. Only thing I am waiting on is deciding what weight I want to go with going forward. Going to take lessons to help figure that part out.

Out of pocket you’d be $100 for the hot cell and under $100 for one of balls Jax is selling ($35 + shipping plus your PSOs cost to drill). That’s a solid beginning arsenal for the same price as having 1 new one from him.

For spare balls I imagine he can order you a plastic ball from any number of brands. Should be about $80 after drilling. If the price isn’t right on his end just order any number of ones online. Bowlingball.com has several for like $40. Just add some cleaner to get over the free shipping threshold. You’d have everything you need for under $300.

Are you sure you have no access to any coaches? No high school teams in the area? I’m going to be starting lessons with a coach from the community college nearby for $20 bucks per lesson, bowling included. It’ll save money in the long run when you consider I’ll have the right equipment, and I’ll start winning more league pots.

Good luck!

[boatman37]

I buy balls from the local shop. They will be drilling it anyway and if I want their help then I should be supporting them. Besides, My PSO charges $50 to drill and install inserts. I paid $160 out the door for my Black Widow Gold. The cheapest I found it online was about $130 so I saved money buying from my PSO. I just had him order me a spare ball because he didn't have anything in stock. He had high end reactive balls and a few 10 and 12lb balls. My new BWG has big back end and while I am fine covering most spares, the 7 is nearly impossible with that ball (lefty here).

[larossho]

If your local PSO isn't willing to watch you bowl and get your personal PAP, I honestly don't think he's a great PSO.


My advice, use this link and find an IBSIA certified pro shop in your area. Even if the place is a ways away, a good pro shop is worth it. Just make an appointment with them

http://www.ibpsia.com/go/find_shop

Insist on them finding your PAP and have them redo your grip. Including thumbhole size and pitches. I would also drop the sarge easter grip since its supposed to reduce your rev rate.

Yeah that’ll probably be the best thing right?:/

[larossho]

Not sure I’d trust a PSO to drill my ball that recommends a hot cell as a spare tbh. And if he originally drilled it adding a switch grip shouldn’t have made the span shorter. Or was it drilled conventional(not fingertip) originally?

If I was you, I would take his offer on the hot cell because once you start getting the hang of things you’ll need a ball like that and that is a good price. I would compliment that by ordering of the middle of the road balls that Jaxbowling (that’s his user handle on this board) is selling. Check out the marketplace section on this board it’s the first thread.

I am going to get the yeah baby and make that my middle of the road ball. Only thing I am waiting on is deciding what weight I want to go with going forward. Going to take lessons to help figure that part out.

Out of pocket you’d be $100 for the hot cell and under $100 for one of balls Jax is selling ($35 + shipping plus your PSOs cost to drill). That’s a solid beginning arsenal for the same price as having 1 new one from him.

For spare balls I imagine he can order you a plastic ball from any number of brands. Should be about $80 after drilling. If the price isn’t right on his end just order any number of ones online. Bowlingball.com has several for like $40. Just add some cleaner to get over the free shipping threshold. You’d have everything you need for under $300.

Are you sure you have no access to any coaches? No high school teams in the area? I’m going to be starting lessons with a coach from the community college nearby for $20 bucks per lesson, bowling included. It’ll save money in the long run when you consider I’ll have the right equipment, and I’ll start winning more league pots.

Good luck!

Oh okay. Yeah I promise you we don’t have any coaches here. I’d have to drive far for one!

[larossho]

I buy balls from the local shop. They will be drilling it anyway and if I want their help then I should be supporting them. Besides, My PSO charges $50 to drill and install inserts. I paid $160 out the door for my Black Widow Gold. The cheapest I found it online was about $130 so I saved money buying from my PSO. I just had him order me a spare ball because he didn't have anything in stock. He had high end reactive balls and a few 10 and 12lb balls. My new BWG has big back end and while I am fine covering most spares, the 7 is nearly impossible with that ball (lefty here).

Oh okay thank you for the information. The thing is with the bowling ball that’ll I’ll be getting, I’ll be spending 230 with my PSO as compared to 180~ buying it online + getting to drilled with inserts and slug. I’m tight on money right now sadly

[RobLV1]

Oh okay. Yeah I promise you we don’t have any coaches here. I’d have to drive far for one!

So let me get this straight... you're willing to spend $230 for a bowling ball, but you won't "drive far" to get help in what you're doing? Sure, why not? Just spend a bunch of bucks for a ball that you don't know how to use. Makes perfect sense to me!

[larossho]

So let me get this straight... you're willing to spend $230 for a bowling ball, but you won't "drive far" to get help in what you're doing? Sure, why not? Just spend a bunch of bucks for a ball that you don't know how to use. Makes perfect sense to me!

Okay sure just drive 2.5 hours to a city to find a coach who will charge you 30-50 dollars an hour and just drive another 2.5 hours to get back home?? Who said I’m willing to spend 230? I’d be spending 150-200~ maybe more every week to two weeks if I did that. Don’t be rude.

[JasonNJ]

Okay sure just drive 2.5 hours to a city to find a coach who will charge you 30-50 dollars an hour and just drive another 2.5 hours to get back home?? Who said I’m willing to spend 230? I’d be spending 150-200~ maybe more every week to two weeks if I did that. Don’t be rude.

Just out of curiosity, where in Tx are you? Have you tried looking for a coach on the bowl.com find a coach page?

https://webapps.bowl.com/USBCFindA/Home/Coach

[larossho]

Just out of curiosity, where in Tx are you? Have you tried looking for a coach on the bowl.com find a coach page?

https://webapps.bowl.com/USBCFindA/Home/Coach

Laredo Tx. The nearest would be San Antonio or Corpus Christi

[RobLV1]

Okay sure just drive 2.5 hours to a city to find a coach who will charge you 30-50 dollars an hour and just drive another 2.5 hours to get back home?? Who said I’m willing to spend 230? I’d be spending 150-200~ maybe more every week to two weeks if I did that. Don’t be rude.

Verbal irony is an acceptable device in the English language. It was not my intention to be rude. I know people who regularly drive 3+ hours to bowl in a particular league. 2 1/2 to get some much needed advice doesn't seem like much of a stretch.

[Amyers]

Laredo Tx. The nearest would be San Antonio or Corpus Christi

Truth is Rob is trying to save you money and time. There are limits to what you can learn with out proper coaching and without it you can lean poor habits that can takes weeks and months to unlearn. I can understand 2 1/2 hours is a long drive. It's about 2 hours drive to my coach luckily he meets me half way and we have our lessons their maybe it's possible you could work something like that out. Part of it depends on how successful you want be. If you just want to bowl leagues and have fun hopefully you can get lucky and find some good advice from bowlers around you but if you want to be successful in tournaments and things like that unless your one of those lucky naturally talented you probably need some qualified help.

Sometimes its important to ask what your goals are? It's always going to best to find a qualified coach in the long term it will save you money but if that isn't something you intend to do no since beating a dead horse.

[larossho]

Truth is Rob is trying to save you money and time. There are limits to what you can learn with out proper coaching and without it you can lean poor habits that can takes weeks and months to unlearn. I can understand 2 1/2 hours is a long drive. It's about 2 hours drive to my coach luckily he meets me half way and we have our lessons their maybe it's possible you could work something like that out. Part of it depends on how successful you want be. If you just want to bowl leagues and have fun hopefully you can get lucky and find some good advice from bowlers around you but if you want to be successful in tournaments and things like that unless your one of those lucky naturally talented you probably need some qualified help.

Sometimes its important to ask what your goals are? It's always going to best to find a qualified coach in the long term it will save you money but if that isn't something you intend to do no since beating a dead horse.

At the moment I’m just trying to increase to pin carry + consistency on hitting the pocket. Hopefully by fall be able to play in leagues. I won’t give up on looking for a coach it’s just gonna take a bit of time.

[vdubtx]

Dont be afraid to use video as a means of getting some coaching. Bowlingchat.net has a section that has certified coaches that will review videos and give their take on what needs to be tweaked or worked on. Ihave used it on occasion when I couldn't identify an issue in my approach etc.

[larossho]

Dont be afraid to use video as a means of getting some coaching. Bowlingchat.net has a section that has certified coaches that will review videos and give their take on what needs to be tweaked or worked on. Ihave used it on occasion when I couldn't identify an issue in my approach etc.

Thank you! I will definitely check it out soon!