My first video

[Phonetek]

I tried this at a variety of angles. One got squished down because it wasn't recorded on the tripod and my son had the orientation wrong. He INSISTED I include it. I look silly but oh well. Feel free to critique. I look forward to your advice. I never thought in a million years I'd ever upload a video to Youtube. Who knows, I may already be on there for one reason or another, I'd rather not know if I am and what I was doing. Hopefully the video works.

https://youtu.be/-Vessw0IQak


https://youtu.be/-Vessw0IQak


I did notice a sound delay on some and the one from the side kinda stinks because I'm slightly cut off but I couldn't have moved it back any further than I did without causing a disruption to other bowlers

[bdpeters]

looks like it worked out pretty well to me. I do not have any bowling critique at this point as I don't feel qualified but I must say nice pick up on that split.

[chip82901]

Video looks good. I definitely don't think I could bowl in that house though...that pillar would screw me up big time. Also, nice mullet! lol

[Phonetek]

looks like it worked out pretty well to me. I do not have any bowling critique at this point as I don't feel qualified but I must say nice pick up on that split.

Thanks, it's not exactly the 7-10 but my son was blown away. He's only seen me do it on Wii Sports LOL I was strangely on point that night so I had him record it just for kicks. At his age it's a big deal I guess. Later I also picked up a 2-10 but that wasn't on video. However, if I was REALLY on point I wouldn't have left those to begin with right?

[Phonetek]

Video looks good. I definitely don't think I could bowl in that house though...that pillar would screw me up big time. Also, nice mullet! lol

HEY NOW! Cut me some slack. I did the best I could with the doo. I cut over 18" off to get this job, I had the Bon Jovi before. Right now, call it the transition period. LOL Okay, now lets stick with critiquing the bowling NOT the hair. As for the pillars you get used to them, I thought the same thing when I first started there now I don't even notice them. Actually I picked that lane so I could put the camera down the lane for the front angle.

Worst part wasn't the pillar, for some reason somethings going on with lane 4, I had to clear a multitude of pin jams on it while I was bowling. Even when I'm not working I'm working I guess. Stupidest thing about that is I had to walk on the pin deck once and I didn't take swap shoes so I got some lane oil on them. DOH! I need to buy those covers. My co-worker was happy though, he said not many customers fix their own lane breakdowns LOL

[bdpeters]

HEY NOW! Cut me some slack. I did the best I could with the doo. I cut over 18" off to get this job, I had the Bon Jovi before. Right now, call it the transition period. LOL Okay, now lets stick with critiquing the bowling NOT the hair. As for the pillars you get used to them, I thought the same thing when I first started there now I don't even notice them.

its tough loosing the hair. I went from lower back length to 2 buzz my head with the clippers and a #2 spacer. of course if I was to grow it again I would look like Gallager long on the sides and bald on the top. at least you will use less shampoo now.

[Phonetek]

its tough loosing the hair. I went from lower back length to 2 buzz my head with the clippers and a #2 spacer. of course if I was to grow it again I would look like Gallager long on the sides and bald on the top. at least you will use less shampoo now.

I was just gonna cut it all but wifey objected. I don't mean shaved cue ball or anything but maybe a high and tight at the very least. She cut it like this and said I'll get bigger tips at the bar with it like this LOL Oh and yes, much less shampoo and conditioner. =)

[bowl1820]

Okay great pick up!

The first view, meh the pillar was in the way. You can't see the release or ball reaction.

The second view was okay, maybe have it a little more behind your swing arm and a little lower.

The squished down shot, if it had been on the tripod and lined up behind you.Actually Might not be a bad view.

The front view was good, you could see how your head and slide foot etc. lined up.

The side view was okay, if you can try to be on the even numbered lane. So the ball return isn't in the way, that's a good side view.

[Phonetek]

bdpeters: Don't worry if your "qualified" to critique or not. That goes for anyone on here too. Fresh eyes are fresh eyes, I didn't just post this for just the certified coaches on here. Advice is advice, if it sounds like it has merit then I'll give it a shot. If it sounds like someone has no idea what they are talking about then I don't, simple as that. That said, if I'm doing something wrong feel free to point it out.

[Phonetek]

Okay great pick up!

The first view, meh the pillar was in the way. You can't see the release or ball reaction.

The second view was okay, maybe have it a little more behind your swing arm and a little lower.

The squished down shot, if it had been on the tripod and lined up behind you.Actually Might not be a bad view.

The front view was good, you could see how your head and slide foot etc. lined up.

The side view was okay, if you can try to be on the even numbered lane. So the ball return isn't in the way, that's a good side view.


When you say more behind it, are you saying cup my wrist more? Or are you talking camera placement? In the front view you can notice my foot is slightly to the right. I walk normally like that, I tried all my life to fix it I just can't. I'm pigeon toed and that's all there is to it, sadly so are all 3 of my kids and my daughter is the worst of all. I've tried to make my foot perfectly straight but I about fall over every time I do it. I just have accepted it, it is what it is.

[bowl1820]

Or are you talking camera placement?.

camera placement

[Amyers]

When you say more behind it, are you saying cup my wrist more? Or are you talking camera placement? In the front view you can notice my foot is slightly to the right. I walk normally like that, I tried all my life to fix it I just can't. I'm pigeon toed and that's all there is to it, sadly so are all 3 of my kids and my daughter is the worst of all. I've tried to make my foot perfectly straight but I about fall over every time I do it. I just have accepted it, it is what it is.

Man those pillars would get on my nerves. As far as technique goes it looks pretty good I don't see anything glaring the start of the swing seems to be a little inside of the shoulder I might try to move that out a little more. Timing looks good

[Phonetek]

After re-reading I figured. Now as far as content, anything jump out at you that you can see Bowl1820?

[Phonetek]

Man those pillars would get on my nerves. As far as technique goes it looks pretty good I don't see anything glaring the start of the swing seems to be a little inside of the shoulder I might try to move that out a little more. Timing looks good

I'm used to the pillars, they were intrusive at first. No worse than a ball return at the foul line. I was notorious for kicking them on even lanes in my delivery, drove me crazy especially on cross alley. That's what happens when your 4 foot of legs. LOL There are really only 3 lanes in the house where you either don't have a pillar or walls. Lane 2, 6 & 10. They are talking about a remodel soon where they are adding more lanes. I've heard 8-12 more but it seems to change daily. I have no idea how or where they are doing this but maybe they can find a way to do something with the pillars.

So your saying hold the ball more to the right of my body?

[boatman37]

hey. i had a mullet in the late 80's. keep telling my kids one day they will be back in style...lol

[djp1080]

Pretty nice job, Phoneman. Your place kind of reminds me of the lanes down in the basement of the Union Hall at the Univ. of Illinois with the pillars and all.
Even with your not too high backswing you get lots of speed. I'd say that it's muscling it some. Your steps appear to be short and fast. The weight of the ball stays in your right hand about the entire time of each shot. I'd try to get more of the weight of the ball supported from underneath by the left hand and arm to allow your right hand and arm to be much more relaxed.
While watching you roll a few, I switched over to watch Pete Weber in another YouTube video with his much higher backswing and smooth delivery with his sweeping hook into the pocket. Your shots are right on target with a bit of action on the backend from what I could see. Nice ball! Now I'll just shut up... :)

[Phonetek]

hey. i had a mullet in the late 80's. keep telling my kids one day they will be back in style...lol

In all fairness, wifey seems to be right about the tips. I do seem to get pretty good ones from the ladies, it's certainly not because of my bartending skills because I suck at it. I had one the other day say she needed a pic with me to prove to her hubby that she was really at a bowling alley. I told her take a selfie with the lanes behind her. She insisted taking the pic with me. I haven't quite figured that one out yet. Okay, back to bowling critique instead of hair. This is BOWLINGBOARDS not ElizabethArdon.com folks.

[bowl1820]

After re-reading I figured. Now as far as content, anything jump out at you that you can see Bowl1820?


Release might be a little late, looks like your hitting up on the ball a bit. as you can see the ball has slight up ward motion. You can see it in the review view some just as you release.

You want to improve the flat spot, soften the knee just a bit and project the ball on to the lane..


https://s5.postimg.org/l1i9mo82f/hitup01.jpg

[Phonetek]

Pretty nice job, Phoneman. Your place kind of reminds me of the lanes down in the basement of the Union Hall at the Univ. of Illinois with the pillars and all.
Even with your not too high backswing you get lots of speed. I'd say that it's muscling it some. Your steps appear to be short and fast. The weight of the ball stays in your right hand about the entire time of each shot. I'd try to get more of the weight of the ball supported from underneath by the left hand and arm to allow your right hand and arm to be much more relaxed.
While watching you roll a few, I switched over to watch Pete Weber in another YouTube video with his much higher backswing and smooth delivery with his sweeping hook into the pocket. Your shots are right on target with a bit of action on the backend from what I could see. Nice ball! Now I'll just shut up... :)

Now that you point that out I put my left hand behind the ball and support it soley with my right. I never noticed, thank you. I did have to put a little more velocity on it that night because the lanes were bone dry, it was a desert no matter where I played even far inside. The pinchaser didn't show up and I was the only one working the counter and parties all day so I couldn't oil. Apparently the next guy didn't either, supposed to be done daily. So, I figured I'd take the more down an in approach, flattened out some, cut down on revs and quicker steps to compensate. I didn't think I was muscling it but your probably right.

[Phonetek]

Release might be a little late, looks like your hitting up on the ball a bit. as you can see the ball has slight up ward motion. You can see it in the review view some just as you release.

You want to improve the flat spot, soften the knee just a bit and project the ball on to the lane..


https://s5.postimg.org/l1i9mo82f/hitup01.jpg

Yeah that's what I was talking about in another post the other day under "thumb savers" I'm not getting out clean as I'd like. I'm hoping that the new ball will help, I'm gonna have my PSO tweak the pitch so hopefully I can get out faster. This is definitely a struggling point for me and very frustrating. If the new ball don't help then I have to do some drills and work hard on it.

As far as the knee, it's been causing me a lot of pain lately and in that video is no exception. Plus I was wearing jeans which was no help. That's why I prefer not to bowl in consecutive days like I did but wifey insisted on going. That said, I'm not sure I was bending it properly in the other videos the night before. Can you elaborate on "Soften the knee"? If it's not a flexibility issue hopefully I can fix it.

[bowl1820]

Yeah that's what I was talking about in another post the other day under "thumb savers" I'm not getting out clean as I'd like. I'm hoping that the new ball will help, I'm gonna have my PSO tweak the pitch so hopefully I can get out faster. This is definitely a struggling point for me and very frustrating. If the new ball don't help then I have to do some drills and work hard on it.

I don't believe that was the cause (at least in this instance), You said in this post "I did have to put a little more velocity on it that night because the lanes were bone dry,".

A lot of players when they try to increase speed by muscling, tend to "hitup" on the ball. Which is counter productive because it makes the ball hook just that much more.



That said, I'm not sure I was bending it properly in the other videos the night before. Can you elaborate on "Soften the knee"? If it's not a flexibility issue hopefully I can fix it.

Yes it's a bit of a flexibility issue, your wanting good knee continuation. (Knee continuation is the amount the slide knee continues forward after the slide foot has stopped). That's a problem I've always had I'm stiff legged a lot.


Doug Kent knee continuation
https://s5.postimg.org/v0389ck4n/Doug_Kent_Knee_continuation.jpg

[Phonetek]

I don't believe that was the cause (at least in this instance), You said in this post "I did have to put a little more velocity on it that night because the lanes were bone dry,".

A lot of players when they try to increase speed by muscling, tend to "hitup" on the ball. Which is counter productive because it makes the ball hook just that much more.



Yes it's a bit of a flexibility issue, your wanting good knee continuation. (Knee continuation is the amount the slide knee continues forward after the slide foot has stopped). That's a problem I've always had I'm stiff legged a lot.


Hitting up is a bad habit from my stroker days, back then it was all about lift the more the better. Now with the new balls today it's as you say counter productive and I agree. It's gonna be a heck of a thing to get out of doing that's for sure. Once I get that Rip'd I can't be doing it if I want to have that ball to be worth using. Being lighter may help too but I doubt it, it may make it worse.

This gonna be equally difficult. I'm gonna have to figure out how to become a more flexible. My knee definitely doesn't continue, your right. I also have very little slide at all. I may be skinny but I am out of shape. I dislocated my left knee a few years and it hasn't ever been the same. Perhaps there are some exercises I can do. Maybe the one step drill? This is why I uploaded the video so I can get feedback, I don't have to like it but it's appreciated. I'm gonna have to find a way painful or not to get to the top of my game whatever it takes.

[djp1080]

Phoneman, You mentioned about getting out of the ball more cleanly. Don't know what your thumb pitch is, but you might want to consider a more forward pitch to allow your thumb to relax in the ball and still giving you the feel that the ball is staying on your hand. Reverse pitch was a killer for me. It made me drop the ball early and it also caused me to squeeze the ball with a death grip which came back with me after I'd left this game for a long time. I've tried lots of different things including that tape stuff I sent you that helps me get out of the ball with a much more relaxed hand. My thumb nail usually is hitting the back of the thumb hole on each shot.
Good luck with the new ball...

[Phonetek]

Phoneman, You mentioned about getting out of the ball more cleanly. Don't know what your thumb pitch is, but you might want to consider a more forward pitch to allow your thumb to relax in the ball and still giving you the feel that the ball is staying on your hand. Reverse pitch was a killer for me. It made me drop the ball early and it also caused me to squeeze the ball with a death grip which came back with me after I'd left this game for a long time. I've tried lots of different things including that tape stuff I sent you that helps me get out of the ball with a much more relaxed hand. My thumb nail usually is hitting the back of the thumb hole on each shot.
Good luck with the new ball...

Yeah that's the plan, getting a pitch adjustment. I think my problem is deeper than just pitch though, as Bowl said that I'm hitting up on the ball. That may be more the issue than pitch. Nonetheless I'll have it adjusted.

[boatman37]

I know I have that same knee issue. Don't need a video to tell me that...lol. Something I will have to work on too but my knees have been sore since my comeback. so might have to work on it over summer after they rest and get better.

[michiganbowlingcoach]

http://s943.photobucket.com/user/spr3wr/media/back_zpskzxnmgam.png.html?sort=3&o=0

When looking at the pics look at how much your head moves . Once the downswing starts your head should stay still so you can focus on your intended target. The 2nd pic I circle your hand because your on the side and on top of the ball. In the 4th pic shows where the ball lands . We are suppose to roll the ball not throw the ball . Maybe when the heads are dry and you cant move anymore left, then add loft. You will create more revs by using a modern release as shown below.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u3XMOkX5l2Y


Side view- Don't like the hand position in your set up. You have a hinged swing so that's good but the setup is so high your late even with a hinged swing. I would like you to lower the setup so it will match your fast feet. This is me personally but I hate the tap yourself on the back follow-through.The pic below is a better way .

http://s943.photobucket.com/user/spr3wr/media/follow%20through_zpscwddcdde.png.html?sort=3&o=0

1. A Follow-Through consists of two directions: vertical and horizontal.
2. A Follow-Through to the back/shoulder is more upward than outward.
3. A Follow-Through like the one above is more outward – a desired follow-through for our program.
4. An outward Follow-Through will lead to increased ball speed.
5. An outward Follow-Through will lead to a wrist position that is more collapsed at the bottom of the swing leading to more ball reaction. An upward follow-through keeps the
wrist cupped at the bottom of the swing too much.
Hint – When teaching this, have your bowlers initially do a motion following-through toward their
back three times. Ask them is this more upward or outward. Now, follow-through long and low
three times…. Is this more upward or outward? You can relate this to throwing a ball. Is it faster
to throw directly or lob the ball to them

[Phonetek]

http://s943.photobucket.com/user/spr3wr/media/back_zpskzxnmgam.png.html?sort=3&o=0

When looking at the pics look at how much your head moves . Once the downswing starts your head should stay still so you can focus on your intended target. The 2nd pic I circle your hand because your on the side and on top of the ball. In the 4th pic shows where the ball lands . We are suppose to roll the ball not throw the ball . Maybe when the heads are dry and you cant move anymore left, then add loft. You will create more revs by using a modern release as shown below.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u3XMOkX5l2Y


Side view- Don't like the hand position in your set up. You have a hinged swing so that's good but the setup is so high your late even with a hinged swing. I would like you to lower the setup so it will match your fast feet. This is me personally but I hate the tap yourself on the back follow-through.The pic below is a better way .

http://s943.photobucket.com/user/spr3wr/media/follow%20through_zpscwddcdde.png.html?filters[user]=97708019&filters[recent]=1&sort=1&o=0

1. A Follow-Through consists of two directions: vertical and horizontal.
2. A Follow-Through to the back/shoulder is more upward than outward.
3. A Follow-Through like the one above is more outward – a desired follow-through for our program.
4. An outward Follow-Through will lead to increased ball speed.
5. An outward Follow-Through will lead to a wrist position that is more collapsed at the bottom of the swing leading to more ball reaction. An upward follow-through keeps the
wrist cupped at the bottom of the swing too much.
Hint – When teaching this, have your bowlers initially do a motion following-through toward their
back three times. Ask them is this more upward or outward. Now, follow-through long and low
three times…. Is this more upward or outward? You can relate this to throwing a ball. Is it faster
to throw directly or lob the ball to them

You've given me a lot to think about here. All are things I myself when watching it was blind to until pointed out. Exactly the point. Much of what I do was the old school way (like my follow through for example) and I was taught by an even older school guy. What worked great then only kinda works now. I haven't talked to him in 10 years but rest assured he's still doing it the way he always has. I myself will be getting caught up with the times with all the help you have given me.. Thank you guys for all the incite thus far this is valuable information to me.

NOTE: your second link to photobucket gives an error when trying to open it.

[boatman37]

That youtube video is interesting. There are a few bowlers in our league (including our PSO) that are younger, probably early 30's, and they have this weird motion before releasing. It looks like they move the ball closer to their center (almost behind their knee) then sort of push their hand forward and rotate their wrist around They get a ton of revs and are all averaging in the 220's so it must be working for them. Wondering if this is what they are doing? Seems to me like too many different movements to screw up? I know much of this game is about consistency so I try to keep it simple but these guys get killer revs and pin action.

[Phonetek]

That youtube video is interesting. There are a few bowlers in our league (including our PSO) that are younger, probably early 30's, and they have this weird motion before releasing. It looks like they move the ball closer to their center (almost behind their knee) then sort of push their hand forward and rotate their wrist around They get a ton of revs and are all averaging in the 220's so it must be working for them. Wondering if this is what they are doing? Seems to me like too many different movements to screw up? I know much of this game is about consistency so I try to keep it simple but these guys get killer revs and pin action.

That video Bowl posted earlier really shows that new release and exactly how to do it. I'm a creature of habit but I'm not stubborn about it. I'm gonna give it a shot. I know it can't be as easy as it looks in the video but what the hell I'll try anyway. I'm not even doing my release properly so I don't think I have much to lose.

[boatman37]

That shot of Cho Young-Seon at about the 11:50 mark looks similar to what these guys are doing. It's like they are moving the ball closer to their centerline on the backswing and getting their hand directly behind the ball then sort of like a flick of the wrist or elbow back to the outside. Noticed 2 or 3 one one team do it then a newer bowler that said this is his 2nd year also does it.

I do know I changed my stance a few years before I quit (so late 90's). I used to stand with the ball in front of my chest with elbow bent but to try to slow the ball down I now stand with the ball just in front of my hip and I turn my wrist towards my stomach so my fingers are towards the center of my body and my thumb is towards my outside (sort of like Missy Parkin has her hand at about the 1:54 mark but my ball is way lower near my hip.

Interesting. Never really paid much attention other than knowing I changed mine years ago and noticing the guys in my league with that funky release...lol

[Phonetek]

I've been putting a lot of thought in the critiquing. I'm putting a game plan together on fixing these issues. Some I'm gonna wait until I get the new ball and my spare ball redrilled. Since I have so many issues with my thumb hole in my current ball, trying to fix a release until then seems futile. Gathering what was said here the points are as follows and in no specific order.

1. Knee continuation
2. On setup, hold the ball lower and support it with my left hand
3. Keep head straight throughout approach
4. Follow through. Mich said it's supposed to be vertical and horizontal. Mine is ALL verticle
5. Try not to muscle the ball and hit up. Although I was trying to add speed in my video due to lane conditions hence the fast feet, I was also muscling it some and hitting up.
6. Try the "modern release"

That's a pretty good starting point to work on. I am gratified and thank you for your input. In some cases it's going to be difficult to forget and relearn things I've been doing for over 35 years. I wish I could have some onsite instruction at work but the coach at my center mainly coaches kids and totally green bowlers, he said my game too far advanced beyond his knowledge to be able to off anything constructive. I was a little shocked to hear that from a USBC Silver coach. Seriously? I figured by Silver level you should be able to teach just about anyone. Either way I'll approach him with this list and see if he can offer a little "how to" in person anyway. I think he can do more than he thinks.

After a couple weeks of working on these things I'll create another video, hopefully from some better angles to show progress and go from there. Unless he fell off the planet Earth I have to say I'm rather shocked RobLV1 has yet to comment, he must be busy. I figured he'd be all over this like a swarm of mosquitoes at a nudist colony. In all fairness it's only been posted a few days and not everyone lives on here like I do in my off time. LOL

[michiganbowlingcoach]

http://s943.photobucket.com/user/spr3wr/media/follow%20through_zpscwddcdde.png.html?sort=3&o=0

[Phonetek]

http://s943.photobucket.com/user/spr3wr/media/follow%20through_zpscwddcdde.png.html?sort=3&o=0

Thank you for fixing the link. I see what you're talking about. Appreciate all the help bud.