Modern Release??

[GrumpyCatFace]

I have questions about the 'modern release'. I'm a new bowler - at least in taking it seriously - and, I'm seeing conflicting advice on here about the way to play a hook correctly.

I've seen the videos of Marshall Holman, and others, using a release that looks like their hand is on the outside of the ball, then sort of following through that way, keeping the fingers in for as long as possible. This looks like that "suitcase" release.

At the same time, a lot of the advice on release seems to involve 'staying behind' the ball. This would be quite different from the above, and fits with the classic advice to roll it off the fingers like an underhand football toss (which I understand well).

Which of these is actually the Modern Release then? Have I misunderstood the entire concept (highly likely)?

[J Anderson]

I have questions about the 'modern release'. I'm a new bowler - at least in taking it seriously - and, I'm seeing conflicting advice on here about the way to play a hook correctly.

I've seen the videos of Marshall Holman, and others, using a release that looks like their hand is on the outside of the ball, then sort of following through that way, keeping the fingers in for as long as possible. This looks like that "suitcase" release.

At the same time, a lot of the advice on release seems to involve 'staying behind' the ball. This would be quite different from the above, and fits with the classic advice to roll it off the fingers like an underhand football toss (which I understand well).

Which of these is actually the Modern Release then? Have I misunderstood the entire concept (highly likely)?

Marshall Holman was in his prime about 40 years ago. While he and Mark Roth were considered radically different from the older pros like Dick Weber and Don Johnson, He did not use a "modern release". For Modern you need to look at guys like Bill O'Neill, Mike Fagan, and E.J. Tackett.

[RobLV1]

Marshall Holman was in his prime about 40 years ago. While he and Mark Roth were considered radically different from the older pros like Dick Weber and Don Johnson, He did not use a "modern release". For Modern you need to look at guys like Bill O'Neill, Mike Fagan, and E.J. Tackett.

I don't believe that this is entirely true. While Marshall Holman was bowling 40 years ago, there were some components of his release and delivery that were definite precursors to the modern release. I often tell bowlers to watch old U Tube videos of Marshall vs. Mark Roth, to begin to understand some of the fundamental differences that took bowling in two very different directions. Bowlers are fascinated, thanks in part to Randy Pedersen commentary on modern bowlers "working the inside of the ball." While this is certainly part of it, it's not the whole deal. Two of the biggest differences between Holman and Roth are in the timing of the approach, and the release timing. Roth was very late, running to the line, planting and ripping his thumb and fingers out of the ball as quickly as possible. Holman began his release as he was still sliding, resulting in more neutral timing and a much longer time between the exit of the thumb and the exit of the fingers. Watch videos of Michael Fagan to see what I'm talking about.

In a nutshell, modern bowlers roll the ball; traditional bowlers throw the ball. Modern bowlers turn their hand through the ball; traditional bowlers turn their hand around the ball. Bottom line is that modern bowlers "let" the ball hook, while traditional bowlers "make" the ball hook.

[GrumpyCatFace]

Wow, looking at those three, I'm nowhere near either release lol

I guess I'm bowling almost a straight ball then. Back to the drawing board.

[boatman37]

Not sure I can do that release effectively? Seems there would be too much room for inconsistency for me. Obviously guys make it work. I will have to give it a try. My thoughts have always been that consistency is key so I have tried to keep it as simple as I can. My release seems to be more like Marshall Holman. When I release my fingers are at about the 7:00 position (lefty) and I just follow straight through.

EDIT: Not in a flattering way. Just that my hand seems to follow the back of the ball more. Or maybe not. Just always seemed to me I just had a simple, easy release. This is how I bowled 15 years ago before I quit. And pay no attention to my approach and hop...lol. Still working on that.

Is this something that is that easy to change? What are the benefits? Seems like more revs. Is it worth changing?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WgCCxqR6Lm8

[Phonetek]

Here is a video Bowl1820 posted a few weeks ago about the modern release. I found it much easier to understand after watching it. Just mute it unless you can speak the Asian languages, it has subtitles.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=6&v=T_UItdMQK4w

[GrumpyCatFace]

Here is a video Bowl1820 posted a few weeks ago about the modern release. I found it much easier to understand after watching it. Just mute it unless you can speak the Asian languages, it has subtitles.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=6&v=T_UItdMQK4w

Now that's interesting... Those kids look like they aren't cupping until right before the release.

I usually find that I can't keep it 'cupped' for that long though. The top of the backswing is easy, of course, but when the ball gets to my back leg, it starts getting rather heavy. :)

[RobLV1]

Now that's interesting... Those kids look like they aren't cupping until right before the release.

I usually find that I can't keep it 'cupped' for that long though. The top of the backswing is easy, of course, but when the ball gets to my back leg, it starts getting rather heavy. :)

"Cupping" is another carryover from the old days that is simply not true anymore. While some bowlers (Chris Barnes, for example) choose to use a cupped position up until unloading and reloading, others are never cupped until the reload. Check out U Tube Videos of David Haynes, long time Team USA member. He starts with a broken wrist and has about as many revs as you are going to see.

[fordman1]

Wow I can get plenty of rev's but could never get that high back swing. Not with ems standing by.

[Phonetek]

Now that's interesting... Those kids look like they aren't cupping until right before the release.

I usually find that I can't keep it 'cupped' for that long though. The top of the backswing is easy, of course, but when the ball gets to my back leg, it starts getting rather heavy. :)

They do make it look easy don't they. I haven't tried it yet but I will be. Right now I have other issues to work on first before I worry about trying to change my release.

[RobLV1]

They do make it look easy don't they. I haven't tried it yet but I will be. Right now I have other issues to work on first before I worry about trying to change my release.

I once heard it said that there are 20 different issues involved in bowling. 19 of them account for 50% of your success. The other 50% result from your release. You might keep this in mind as you are trying to figure out what to worry about... just sayin'.

[GrumpyCatFace]

"Cupping" is another carryover from the old days that is simply not true anymore. While some bowlers (Chris Barnes, for example) choose to use a cupped position up until unloading and reloading, others are never cupped until the reload. Check out U Tube Videos of David Haynes, long time Team USA member. He starts with a broken wrist and has about as many revs as you are going to see.

This idea of a “reload” tells me that I might have it all wrong.

Is the arm supposed to slow slightly, to allow the wrist to cock, and then immediately release at the bottom of the swing?

That sounds like WAY more than I can easily adapt to, while still getting the hang of timing...

[bowl1820]

Work the inside of the ball, yo-yo release, Load, unload, reload, cupped, uncupped, cup of coffee

IMO the modern release stuff is a lot to take in if your just trying to get back in or starting out. Because it sounds like all these wrist actions you have to make and positions for generating a lot of power/revs on the ball.

I say start off simple and work your way up, Unless your a young kid then get a coach and learn how to really rip the snot out of a ball.

Note: Getting a coach is a good idea at any age, there's only so much that you can get from the internet. Bowling is a hands on thing and having someone there to help with adjustments on the fly with another pair of eyes is more helpful.



here's a video that shows some basic releases, Look at the one he calls the contemporary release (Note other videos might not call it that).

Start there and don't worry about all the loading, cupping etc for the moment. Just get the ball in your hand, release at the right time, project the ball down the lane and let your let fingers come through the ball basically like a cog on gear.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YmM6Lxn-fGw

[bdpeters]

Thank you for posting this question Grumpy. This brought up a good deal of helpful information to check out. That is why this forum is so great. You don't have to be the one posting to reap the benefits.

[GrumpyCatFace]

Thank you for posting this question Grumpy. This brought up a good deal of helpful information to check out. That is why this forum is so great. You don't have to be the one posting to reap the benefits.

Always happy to share my confusion with strangers lol. Since starting to bowl seriously a few months ago, I've discovered how very little I actually understand about the sport.

That's why I love this board - I've already learned far more than I could have hoped for.

[Astropin]

I'm back after a 15 year hiatus. I'm 51 could never "crank" the ball. I'm a straight up the second arrow bowler. But I would like to learn the modern release.

A lot of info regarding these release seems very contradictory. I was watching Eileen's training videos and how he describes the release. He seems to show and describe a straight up the back release. But that is going to rev the ball straight forward?

Then people give links showing modern pros releasing in slow motion and none of them release straight up the back. Every single one of them shows them flick their fingers across the ball (somewhat towards the far gutter) to generate revs and an axis angle the is not straight at the pins. Which makes sense if you want the ball to hook the ball.

Yes they cup and uncup their wrist at release. Some have it cupped the whole time and others do it at the top and others right before uncupping. Some even bend at the elbow and straighten it at the same time they uncup!

[Astropin]

Wow...and I thought these boards actually had some posters.

[fordman1]

Forget the modern release and just buy a ball that will hook a lot on its own. Play the 2nd arrow you say you always have. The new release is for people who don't have 51 year old elbows, shoulders and wrists. Your approach would have to be redone. Timing adjusted and there is no guarantee you will ever learn it.
As to these boards actually having posters you have to ask non technical stuff like what is your all time favorite color ball.

[RobLV1]

Forget the modern release and just buy a ball that will hook a lot on its own. Play the 2nd arrow you say you always have. The new release is for people who don't have 51 year old elbows, shoulders and wrists. Your approach would have to be redone. Timing adjusted and there is no guarantee you will ever learn it.

Nonsense!

[Astropin]

Forget the modern release and just buy a ball that will hook a lot on its own. Play the 2nd arrow you say you always have. The new release is for people who don't have 51 year old elbows, shoulders and wrists. Your approach would have to be redone. Timing adjusted and there is no guarantee you will ever learn it.
As to these boards actually having posters you have to ask non technical stuff like what is your all time favorite color ball.

Thanks for the reply. It seems like the modern release might actually be easier on the body if you're doing it right. Right now I'm heaving (muscling) the ball down the lane with a very low back swing.

[vdubtx]

Forget the modern release and just buy a ball that will hook a lot on its own. Play the 2nd arrow you say you always have. The new release is for people who don't have 51 year old elbows, shoulders and wrists. Your approach would have to be redone. Timing adjusted and there is no guarantee you will ever learn it.
As to these boards actually having posters you have to ask non technical stuff like what is your all time favorite color ball.


Nonsense!

Agree with Rob. Absolute nonsense.

[GrumpyCatFace]

Tried doing the 'elbow in' thing at practice today. I think I was pinning my arm to my side, overdoing it. Probably just need to relax more.

Does the backswing necessarily involve hanging the ball out to the side, fingers pointed to the next lane? Or are the fingers pointed down/in at that point?

[Astropin]

Tried doing the 'elbow in' thing at practice today. I think I was pinning my arm to my side, overdoing it. Probably just need to relax more.

Does the backswing necessarily involve hanging the ball out to the side, fingers pointed to the next lane? Or are the fingers pointed down/in at that point?

From what I've seen you can do it both ways. Some have their hand more inside up top (fingers facing the next lane as you say) and some are straight back (fingers pointing down).

In practice it's easier for me to get a higher backswing if I turn my hand inside and open up my shoulders.

[GrumpyCatFace]

From what I've seen you can do it both ways. Some have their hand more inside up top (fingers facing the next lane as you say) and some are straight back (fingers pointing down).

In practice it's easier for me to get a higher backswing if I turn my hand inside and open up my shoulders.

Hard to imagine how I could stay consistent, while swinging my shoulders open, though.. that’s a big part of my problems currently.

I also have issues with footwork, and getting my body twisted at release. Long road ahead.

[Phonetek]

Grumpycatface and Astropin, you guys may wanna post a video of yourselves if you have the means. Maybe we can give you some assistance on whichever release your doing or trying to do. Video does wonders in that regard among other things. Just a suggestion.

[RobLV1]

Before you worry about the particulars of a modern release, you need to work on three simple things:getting away from late timing, increasing the time between when the thumb exits the ball and when the fingers exit, and learning to roll the ball to let it hook rather than throwing it to make it hook. Last year during Nationals in Vegas I gave a lot of lessons to mid to high average bowlers who wanted to increase power, hook, and carry. In every single case, bowlers were able to see an increase in rev rate and ball motion after just one lesson focusing on these three things.

[boatman37]

Before you worry about the particulars of a modern release, you need to work on three simple things:getting away from late timing, increasing the time between when the thumb exits the ball and when the fingers exit, and learning to roll the ball to let it hook rather than throwing it to make it hook. Last year during Nationals in Vegas I gave a lot of lessons to mid to high average bowlers who wanted to increase power, hook, and carry. In every single case, bowlers were able to see an increase in rev rate and ball motion after just one lesson focusing on these three things.

Yeah. As much as I would like to get good with this new release I am still working on the fundamentals like you mentioned. Once I get that down then I can try new things. If your timing is off and you learn something new then you will have learned how to do something new the wrong way

[GrumpyCatFace]

Before you worry about the particulars of a modern release, you need to work on three simple things:getting away from late timing, increasing the time between when the thumb exits the ball and when the fingers exit, and learning to roll the ball to let it hook rather than throwing it to make it hook. Last year during Nationals in Vegas I gave a lot of lessons to mid to high average bowlers who wanted to increase power, hook, and carry. In every single case, bowlers were able to see an increase in rev rate and ball motion after just one lesson focusing on these three things.

Could you explain a little about the combination of 'earlier timing', and 'increasing the time between thumb and fingers'? Those seem to contradict...

If the ball gets there sooner, then how would I make more time for the fingers?

[Astropin]

and learning to roll the ball to let it hook rather than throwing it to make it hook.

That's probably my biggest issue. I have a very low (waist high) backswing and I rush to the line from the back dots in four steps and heave the ball down the 2nd arrow at 16-18mph. So much to work on and no coaches (I'm in a small town surrounded by more small towns...nearest good coach would be 2.5hr drive one way. So it's videos and reading for me. I would like a much higher (at least shoulder high) backswing...and let gravity do the work for me. That would also help free up another issue I have...gripping the ball way too hard. Gave myself tendonitis that I'm still dealing with from that. I just had all my balls (3) switched to removable thumb socket grips and the better fit will help also.

What do we think of Eileen's Ball Rev trainer and swing trainer? I was thinking about making my own Rev Trainer out of a 2" thick cutting board and 1" roller ball bearings. Can make my own for about $50 vs Eileen's $95.

I plan to train, train, train this summer and come back next fall with a whole new approach and release. I know I won't be good at that point...but hopefully good enough to be willing to stick with it and continue to work on it throughout the season.

[Astropin]

Could you explain a little about the combination of 'earlier timing', and 'increasing the time between thumb and fingers'? Those seem to contradict...

If the ball gets there sooner, then how would I make more time for the fingers?

I'm going to assume that "early timing" means the ball coming through before you have finished your slide. Increase the time between the thumb and fingers by learning to roll the ball off your hand with your hand behind the ball. That allows the thumb to clear first (and easier I might add) and then just follow through with your fingers (don't try to "lift" the ball up the side like most of us did...and I still do at the moment). And please correct me if I'm wrong...but that's what I'm gathering from what I've read so far and watched on YouTube.

[RobLV1]

Most bowlers who learned to bowl, or were taught to bowl by someone who learned before the modern era, use timing that is too late to incorporate into a modern release. Think of it this way; if you get to the line before your ball does, you have no option other than to pull the ball to try to get it to catch up to you. When you are pulling the ball that is behind you, it is impossible to stay behind the ball. Your only option is to come around it. For a modern release, the optimum timing is neutral: the ball gets to the line at the same time as the bowler, so that the release pushes through the ball. To achieve this timing, practice one-step drills and feel the slide start as the backswing starts forward. Most of you will probably find that you are used to starting the slide way before the ball starts down from the top of the backswing.

More later.

[GrumpyCatFace]

Hmmm. I don’t think that’s me. I’ve gotten used to stretching out, and putting the top of my backswing on the third step.

I might be doing it right already, but it’s very hard to know.

I do know that I have a very low rev rate though, and my speed is around 16 mph. I get a lot more hook when I slow it to around 14, but it’s difficult for me to do that.

[Astropin]

Tried a higher backswing tonight and was able to do it pretty well with decent timing. It was clocking my ball at 15mph at the pins which is right were I'd like to be. Of course my release was **** so my shot was all over the place and I threw a 111. On top of the that 111 was the very first score drawn on our random drawing so I won $32 but also had the entire league congratulating me on a 111 : (

[RobLV1]

Okay, I promised more later as I have a pinched nerve in my neck that makes typing very painful.

As I said, once you get your timing to a neutral position, you need to work on increasing your release timing: the time between when the thumb exits and when the fingers exit. You do this by making sure that your follow through goes towards the pins rather than towards the ceiling. The fingers stay in the ball for as long as possible as your roll the ball and extend toward the pins. Your follow through should never get more than an inch or two above your shoulders. Take a look a Dom Barrett, Stu Williams, Michael Fagan, and even Chris Barnes to see what I'm talking about.

[mattmc82]

Okay, I promised more later as I have a pinched nerve in my neck that makes typing very painful.

As I said, once you get your timing to a neutral position, you need to work on increasing your release timing: the time between when the thumb exits and when the fingers exit. You do this by making sure that your follow through goes towards the pins rather than towards the ceiling. The fingers stay in the ball for as long as possible as your roll the ball and extend toward the pins. Your follow through should never get more than an inch or two above your shoulders. Take a look a Dom Barrett, Stu Williams, Michael Fagan, and even Chris Barnes to see what I'm talking about.

Didn’t realize there was any issue with finishing high. Found it keeps me from coming across my body

[RobLV1]

Didn’t realize there was any issue with finishing high. Found it keeps me from coming across my body

Watch Michael Fagan and Diana Zavralova; both follow throughs cross in from of their bodies. Finishing high encourages "lifting." Lifting is not a good thing in modern bowling.

[boatman37]

I have noticed with some of the newer bowlers their arm will cross towards the center of their body then back out. Almost like a half circular motion.

What is the benefit of the modern release? More revs? Anything else?

[fordman1]

Is the modern release something that Mika, Pete, Norm and Walter will be trying soon? I can just picture Brian Voss bowling that way.

[GrumpyCatFace]

Well, I was told both here, and by another bowler, to keep my arm straight and “reach for the pins” after delivery. This did increase my accuracy on spare shots, but I haven’t figured out how to incorporate this with “rolling the ball” off my fingers, to create a hook.

I’m beginning to wonder if the problem is with my ball drilling... the PSO didn’t really ask me, and just gave me a “standard drilling” with the pin below and to the right of my ring finger. Isn’t it more effective with the pin “up”?

Or is this still just a timing issue on my part?

[GrumpyCatFace]

I should also mention that I have a rather difficult time cupping the ball. I have to really pull with my thumb to keep it there, as it doesn’t feel like it’s in the ball far enough to “palm” it.

My plan for this is to try another PSO for my new urethane from this lovely site, and see which one feels better.

[J Anderson]

Well, I was told both here, and by another bowler, to keep my arm straight and “reach for the pins” after delivery. This did increase my accuracy on spare shots, but I haven’t figured out how to incorporate this with “rolling the ball” off my fingers, to create a hook.

I’m beginning to wonder if the problem is with my ball drilling... the PSO didn’t really ask me, and just gave me a “standard drilling” with the pin below and to the right of my ring finger. Isn’t it more effective with the pin “up”?

Or is this still just a timing issue on my part?

If this was your first ball, the driller isn’t going to worry about finding your PAP, since you would not really have one until you have a ball that fits you. When you go to get your new ball drilled, whoever drills it should get a PAP off your first ball.

Getting a consistent release, whether it’s old school or modern, is hard to do if your timing is off. I believe that Mark Baker has said that with most of his students, by the time he fixes their timing, the release fixes itself.

[RobLV1]

Is the modern release something that Mika, Pete, Norm and Walter will be trying soon? I can just picture Brian Voss bowling that way.

With the exception of Pete who worked for three straight years in the nineties to find a release that would work with modern reactive bowling balls, none of these bowlers are still competitive at the highest levels. Do you really think that that trying to become as talented as these bowling legends will be easier than trying to develop a modern release? Classic avoidance!

[Hammer]

I am 71 years old and have no trouble using the modern release. When I am on the approach I open up my shoulders and have the palm of my left hand facing upwards with a straight wrist and the ball between my shoulder and my chin. When I start my 5 step approach I push the ball out a little and let it drop into the back swing. When the ball gets to the top I have my palm facing away from me. This helps to keep me from turning early in the release area. Plus at the top of my back swing my balance arm is in front of me thumb down. I don't muscle the ball down I just let it drop and have a light grip on the ball. When I get to the release area my thumb comes out quickly and the weight of the ball drops onto my fingers. When I feel that happen I make an aggressive pass through the back of the ball rolling the ball onto the alley. Ever since I got used to doing the modern swing and release I can't believe how easy it is to get good revs without trying to make revs happen. Now I just let them happen. I can have the arch of my slide foot on board 32 and have a breakpoint of between boards 4 to 9 and my ball has no trouble getting to the pocket from there. By the way this is on the THS pattern and I am left handed. Also I don't let my ball hand hold the weight of the ball I support it with my right hand.

[RobLV1]

Congratulations on working on your game without arbitrarily deciding that change is just too hard! My hat's off to you.

[Astropin]

I'm working on this release almost daily at home. Built my own version of the "Rev-Release Trainer" and I can also practice a full approach and release in my basement...I have one attachment for my bowling shoe that slides very similar on my basement carpet as does my normal pad at the lanes. So I can do the full approach and release. Great for working on timing but unfortunately the carpet does not give me any real indication on my revs.

So I practice on the rev trainer...practice standing release's and then a full approach release. It's going to take time. The hardest part (for me) is the wrist break and projecting the ball onto the lane instead of lifting. I've discovered while working on this that finishing with my palm facing the pins seems to help. It helps remind me to make a quick flick with my fingers once the thumb has come out.

Now that I've got my thumb hole sized right I've noticed something else. If I do my old release (hand lifting up the outside of the ball) my thumb tends to stick...or at the very least I can feel it rub my thumb on exit. If I do the new release with my hand behind the ball and my wrist breaking my thumb comes right out. So I have a nice indicator on my hand position when my thumb comes out. If I felt it or if it sticks I'm doing it wrong.

Also...what appears to be a free article on Bowling this month about the modern release - https://www.bowlingthismonth.com/bowling-tips/improving-your-release/?contactId=40300&linkType=freeArticle

[boatman37]

After reading that article it makes a little more sense. My son raced karts for about 10 years against current pro drivers. We were in it pretty big. Anyway, one of the driving schools he went to talked about tire grip. A tire can only have 100% grip that can be divided up into different directions. If you are in a straight line then you have 100% force going one direction. If you are turning and braking then you might have 70% turning and 30% braking. I you go past that 100% (hypothetically speaking) then you have a problem.
Every once in awhile I pull the ball and hit way high. Every time this happens I notice my speed is quite a bit higher than normal. What I 'think' is happening is I am turning my wrist too far to the side and trying to 'steer' the ball. Because I am not getting any lift it has more speed? Sound plausible? I have definitely got better with this. A couple months ago this happened about 60% of the time. Now it's more like 5% of the time. My normal release my fingers are at about the 7:00 position on my ball (left handed).

The last 2 weeks my average is 190.6. For the year (42 games) it's 174 so definitely an improvement even though it's a small sample size.

[fordman1]

Mine are at 7:00 but I am right handed. Ancient release..

[boatman37]

Mine are at 7:00 but I am right handed. Ancient release..

On my downswing (right at my knee) my fingers are at about 5:00 and thumb at about between 11:00 and 12:00 but at the point my thumb is out and fingers about to come out my fingers are at about 7:00 so I must have a slight clockwise rotation between the lowest of my downswing and my release.

I have been practicing my approach at home once in awhile. Wife thinks I'm nuts but that's nothing new...lol. Trying to get my timing a little better.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WgCCxqR6Lm8

[fordman1]

I would hate to have the restriction of a certain grip and release point. I can go from 8-9 to 3-4 it all depends on the lane conditions. I never decide until after practice and then change all through the night. It would be nice to be able to play the same line and shot all night long.

[Astropin]

Going by your video your your thumb is out...fingers still in at about 8:00-8:30. (I'm a lefty also).

I'd like my thumb to come out at 12ish and have my fingers out around 9 or so. Which is why I like my palm facing the pins at finish. Reminds me to make a quick turn of the fingers (wrist) after the thumb has come out. This all happens so quickly though that it's going to take time to get it all put together in a consistent release (muscle memory). I've also been toying with a bent elbow. Cupping my wrist at the top and a slight bend in my elbow on the way down. Now it's just a matter of getting all the timing down at release.

[RobLV1]

As is so often the case, a thread that starts out discussing the modern release, ends up with bowlers talking about the specifics of their own releases.

The simple fact of the matter is that if you put in the dedication and hard work to learn the modern release, all of these discussion become pointless. When your timing is neutral, you keep your hand behind the ball, you increase your release timing and push through the ball to roll it rather than throw it, you will be able to change your starting position as well as your finishing position to manipulate your axis tilt and rotation.

[fordman1]

OK we should all change everything we do and be robots. How do you know this person isn't handicapped? grumpycatface?

[RobLV1]

OK we should all change everything we do and be robots. How do you know this person isn't handicapped? grumpycatface?

You missed the point! I'm saying that by ignoring all of the changes involved in modern bowling; synthetic lanes, reactive resin bowling balls, etc., you ARE robots doing what you've always done. Change is hard. Change is scary. In terms of bowling, change is mandatory! I don't know if a person is handicapped, however I have coached enough bowlers with disabilities to know that there is always a way. By the way, I am a retired Special Education Teacher. Please don't lecture me about individuals with handicaps.

[GrumpyCatFace]

I’m not handicapped - at least not physically. ;) I’m just having a hard time learning the game at a higher level. It will come.

[fordman1]

No offence meant catface. Just all this new stuff is getting carried away. Look at the young people they can't add up a recap sheet with out a calculator. They can't read handwriting . They can't read a map. Ask them which end of the house they parked on north or south and their eyes glaze over. Everyone I see has a cell phone they look at every 2 minutes. They act like they can't live without facebook?
Every thing old isn't bad.

[Astropin]

[QUOTE=RobLV1;166942you will be able to change your starting position as well as your finishing position to manipulate your axis tilt and rotation.[/QUOTE]

What does that mean? I bowled last night. Kept trying "the modern release". Came through with my hand behind the ball....got good speed but almost no hook. Ball went nearly straight down the lane. Clearly my fingers were just following my thumb. So how do you get the proper axis tilt and rotation on the ball at release?

I would try to quickly rotate my wrist at release but I must have been late.

What is the actual time gap between thumb leaving and fingers leaving?

[bowl1820]

No offence meant catface. Just all this new stuff is getting carried away. Look at the young people they can't add up a recap sheet with out a calculator. They can't read handwriting . They can't read a map. Ask them which end of the house they parked on north or south and their eyes glaze over. Everyone I see has a cell phone they look at every 2 minutes. They act like they can't live without facebook?
Every thing old isn't bad.

Okay, I think we're getting off topic here.

The thread is about what constitutes the "Modern Release", Not the state of today's youth.

Yes everything old isn't bad, But it isn't necessarily the best or the most effective way to do something with the equipment and conditions we have today.

[RobLV1]

What does that mean? I bowled last night. Kept trying "the modern release". Came through with my hand behind the ball....got good speed but almost no hook. Ball went nearly straight down the lane. Clearly my fingers were just following my thumb. So how do you get the proper axis tilt and rotation on the ball at release?

I would try to quickly rotate my wrist at release but I must have been late.

What is the actual time gap between thumb leaving and fingers leaving?

The key to your problem comes with the word "quickly". The whole idea of the modern release is to "unload" before the start of the release. This breaking of the wrist results in the thumb pointing downward, letting gravity take the ball off of the thumb. As the wrist remains broken for as long as possible, much like a yo-yo that is "walking the dog", the wrist rotates slowly through the ball, not around it. At the very end of the release, the wrist reloads as the follow through goes out toward the pins. The starting position at the beginning of the release, as well as the ending position at the end of the release will determine the axis tilt and rotation. The bottom line is to stop trying to make the ball hook and learn to let it hook.

[Astropin]

The key to your problem comes with the word "quickly". The whole idea of the modern release is to "unload" before the start of the release. This breaking of the wrist results in the thumb pointing downward, letting gravity take the ball off of the thumb. As the wrist remains broken for as long as possible, much like a yo-yo that is "walking the dog", the wrist rotates slowly through the ball, not around it. At the very end of the release, the wrist reloads as the follow through goes out toward the pins. The starting position at the beginning of the release, as well as the ending position at the end of the release will determine the axis tilt and rotation. The bottom line is to stop trying to make the ball hook and learn to let it hook.

Guess I'm just not grasping it. No way for me to get hands on coaching either...none around. What is the difference between "rotating through" and "rotating around" I feel like "through" is what I was doing and the ball was going nearly dead straight down the lane. Occasionally I was hooking the ball...but occasionally was when I came around the side like my old release...which also tends to stick to my thumb more.

Reminded me of how I throw my spare ball. Broken wrist palm facing flat at my target...ball goes dead straight.

When I watch the slow motion videos of the pros release their fingers definitely put rotation (revs) on the ball that is angled towards the opposite gutter (left gutter if they are right handed)...all of them.

[bowl1820]

Guess I'm just not grasping it. No way for me to get hands on coaching either...none around. What is the difference between "rotating through" and "rotating around" I feel like "through" is what I was doing and the ball was going nearly dead straight down the lane. Occasionally I was hooking the ball...but occasionally was when I came around the side like my old release...which also tends to stick to my thumb more.

Reminded me of how I throw my spare ball. Broken wrist palm facing flat at my target...ball goes dead straight.

When I watch the slow motion videos of the pros release their fingers definitely put rotation (revs) on the ball that is angled towards the opposite gutter (left gutter if they are right handed)...all of them.

I'll take a stab at it.

The image is a bit crude but...
If your fingers are coming straight up the back of the ball like the Blue line. The ball will basically go dead straight.

If your fingers are following the the Red line. Your coming around the ball, your hand isn't particularly staying behind the ball and it's like your trying to spin it (the ring finger is more or less following the middle finger) to make it hook.

The green line is more like what you want, The hand is behind the ball with it rolling forward off your fingers, with the ball turning your hand not your hand turning the ball.

https://s5.postimg.cc/dy4lt8wyf/ball_through.jpg

in this video they talk about "rotating through" vs "rotating around"


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3nQrp6PvwO8

[Astropin]

I'll take a stab at it.

The image is a bit crude but...
If your fingers are coming straight up the back of the ball like the Blue line. The ball will basically go dead straight.

If your fingers are following the the Red line. Your coming around the ball, your hand isn't particularly staying behind the ball and it's like your trying to spin it (the ring finger is more or less following the middle finger) to make it hook.

The green line is more like what you want, The hand is behind the ball with it rolling forward off your fingers, with the ball turning your hand not your hand turning the ball.

https://s5.postimg.cc/dy4lt8wyf/ball_through.jpg

in this video they talk about "rotating through" vs "rotating around"


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3nQrp6PvwO8

Thanks for the video. I hear what you are both saying...but...how does the ball turn your hand? Does my body need to be at a slight angle to the lane instead of dead square facing it?

[Phonetek]

I hate to comment on this thread because of the tone of it but for what it's worth.....I gave this release a try tonight for the first time. I was able to load and unload my wrist okay, for ME that was the easy part. NOT lifting is very very tough to do so I seemed to combine the two. The result... I noticed a significant rev increase, only a slight speed reduction (still way too hard), much less loft (still too much) and crazy back end but I was far from doing this release properly.

At best I got it about 35-40% right and that may be a high guess. If you've been bowling for many years doing it however you were doing it, lets just say it's going to take a lot of work, time and dedication to change and do this properly. This is not a quick fix and it's not easy so I recommend you don't treat it as such if your at all serious.

[RobLV1]

Every single bowler who I have taught to use a modern release has immediately seen and increase in rev rate and ball motion.

[Astropin]

The thing I'm stuck on is that there must be some hand manipulation at release beyond just coming through the ball. If I just come through the ball from the back then the revs are all dead straight towards the pins and the ball goes nearly dead straight.

[boatman37]

The thing I'm stuck on is that there must be some hand manipulation at release beyond just coming through the ball. If I just come through the ball from the back then the revs are all dead straight towards the pins and the ball goes nearly dead straight.

Could that be due to the ball and the drill pattern?

I am going to give this a try in practice Tuesday night to see what happens (and if I can even do it...lol). Seems like you just relax the wrist just before the release then kind of 'flick' the wrist back up just as it leaves your fingertips and leave the palm facing straight forward?

[Astropin]

Could that be due to the ball and the drill pattern?

It's not the drill pattern...I have three balls drilled from aggressive hook to neutral (my spare ball) and if I come straight through the ball from the back they all go straight. The aggressive one will hook a tiny bit.



I am going to give this a try in practice Tuesday night to see what happens (and if I can even do it...lol). Seems like you just relax the wrist just before the release then kind of 'flick' the wrist back up just as it leaves your fingertips and leave the palm facing straight forward?

Well that's what everyone keeps saying...but if you watch the pro's in slow motion that is not what appears to be happening. It looks like the thumb comes out but then the fingers ROTATE through the ball. They do not come straight up the back. By the time their fingers actually leave the ball there is a definite motion towards the gutter with the fingers....putting revs on the ball that are not directly at the pins. The ball is spinning towards the gutter (but the path is away from the gutter). That's the only way I can even imagine a big hook happening. When the ball heads down the lane it's revving pretty hard towards the gutter...generating the eventual hook. No way to do that if you release straight up the back towards the pins (which is what people keep saying...and I've tired).

The only way I can see that happening (letting the ball turn your hand) is if your hand is in the right position as soon as the thumb comes out. Which would be a little more on the side of the ball then completely behind. Then your finger would naturally push through the ball at a slight angle creating spin (revs) at an angle away from the pins...allowing it to hook.

So my question to the experts - where are your fingers when the thumb exits? Where are your fingers when they exit? (I guess use a clock for reference). I'm a lefty but can figure it out if you describe it "righty".

[Phonetek]

Every single bowler who I have taught to use a modern release has immediately seen and increase in rev rate and ball motion.

I guess I should give myself an "atta boy" because I appear to have done something right. At least I must be on the right track. Still, I did so much wrong and I know it. Baby steps


The thing I'm stuck on is that there must be some hand manipulation at release beyond just coming through the ball. If I just come through the ball from the back then the revs are all dead straight towards the pins and the ball goes nearly dead straight.

Astropin, I can't say exactly what I personally did because honestly I wasn't putting any thought into what my fingers were doing after my thumb came out. I was focused on the wrist. If I had to fathom a guess I'd say probably what they have always done with my stroker release minus "some" lift which I was trying very hard not to do. Meaning I'm sure there was "some" turn involved somewhere. I tried it for a mere 5 games and no video so I can't give an accurate frame by frame explanation.

All I can say is what results I saw which there is no reason to repeat. I would think I put that turn on it because that's what I've done for 40 years. It's a natural thing at this point I can't just hit Ctrl - Z and undo what I've been doing for decades. Did I do it properly for the modern release? I could have gotten lucky yes but I truly have no clue so I highly doubt it. Again, baby steps. It's gonna take me a hell of a lot more than 5 games to perfect it. Probably hundreds or perhaps thousands and years not weeks or days.

Astropin, if your ball is going straight then look at the oil lines on your ball. They should give you an indication of why. The ones on my ball didn't change location or angle from where they always were there was just a lot more of them. Take a photo of the oil lines and upload it, maybe that will help give the members something to go on. You could also upload a video of yourself. These people WILL do their best to help you I can assure you of that just don't get discouraged.

[RobLV1]

If you are having difficulty eliminating the lift, it's probably because you have not embraced the idea of simply rolling the ball instead of throwing it. Try some one step drills where you simply take one step to the line and roll it towards the pins to get the feel of rolling it instead of throwing it.

[Astropin]

So my question to the experts - where are your fingers when the thumb exits? Where are your fingers when they exit? (I guess use a clock for reference). I'm a lefty but can figure it out if you describe it "righty".

................

[Phonetek]

If you are having difficulty eliminating the lift, it's probably because you have not embraced the idea of simply rolling the ball instead of throwing it. Try some one step drills where you simply take one step to the line and roll it towards the pins to get the feel of rolling it instead of throwing it.

Agreed. This was just a first try and I was extremely happy with the results. I WILL get this. I wasn't completely prepared to be honest. I was going to punch out and go home. My son went with me to work and suckered me into bowling since we were open a couple more hours. Next time I want to bring my laptop and do what they did in the Asian video step by step that Bowl uploaded a few weeks back which also includes the one step drill.

It was nice to see my ball move like that even knowing I wasn't doing it perfect, it certainly raised my eyebrows. I didn't mention I was using a highly polished Faball Original Black Hammer (my spare ball) on lanes that were oiled before league but not used, not my Rip'd. I'm trying to limit the games on that ball at work since we have 42' THS, seems like a waste. Saving it for Sport shot and tournaments. I have to say I didn't expect the carry and movement I was getting from that old dinosaur. Until I get my next ball that's all I'm using at work.

I do have one question though Rob, on cross alley for say a ten pin. I picked those up like I normally did it. Should I not be doing that? I mean with my wrist which I just flatten out and go at it that way. I couldn't see loading and unloading for 10 pins so that's why I didn't.

[Phonetek]

................

Try looking at this thread below Astropin, Bowl just updated it. This is the video I watched to understand the modern release. It may have been posted elsewhere in this thread already but I'm too lazy to look through 7 pages to find out. I would think this would answer your question. I'm not sure how computer savvy you are but since you're lefty you can horizontally flip this video to make it lefty like I did to make Boatman righty in one of his videos as a joke. That may help so you can see it from your perspective.

http://www.bowlingboards.com/threads/21666-SKYtomo-How-to-over-Bowling-curve-strongest-rotation!-You-can-Lowdown-learn

[Astropin]

Oh...great video, thanks! I will study that and try some of the steps. Clearly there is a transition from "behind the ball" to the hand coming through more on the "outside" of the ball...just as I surmised.

From what I can put together maximum revs would be generated by not only being behind the ball but actually being "inside" the ball. In addition to cupping and then breaking the wrist you can also add in bending the elbow. So you transition from bent elbow and cupped (and even cocked to the inside) to straightening the elbow and uncupping (actually breaking) the wrist and uncocking as well. You also simultaneously transition from behind (or even inside) the ball to more outside the ball as your fingers travel through to release.

So cupped to uncupped and behind to a little outside will work. It you want maximum revs you also bend at the elbow, come from inside the ball and in addition to cupping the ball you can also cock the wrist to the inside. If you can put that all together you can impart some impressive revs (or you can just bowl two-handed :D )

[GrumpyCatFace]

I’ve had the same problem as previous posters - probably taking it a bit too literally to “go through the ball”, and getting zero revs.
Seems that it’s probably somewhere in the middle that’s best.

[Astropin]

If you think about it there is only one thing that generates revs...your fingers. The longer they stay in the ball after your thumb leaves and the faster they move through the ball before leaving the more revs you generate. Which is why two-handers have a natural rev advantage...same with the no-thumb one handers. They maximize their time and distance to generate revolutions.

[GrumpyCatFace]

Well, I could certainly roll harder with the fingers, but that would be “lifting”, which seems to be bad? I’m not sure why that is exactly...

Does that refer to actually lifting the ball, or moving the hand upward?

Also, how could one ever be accurate pulling to the side on release, unless the actual throw was off target?

[Astropin]

Well, I could certainly roll harder with the fingers, but that would be “lifting”, which seems to be bad? I’m not sure why that is exactly...

Does that refer to actually lifting the ball, or moving the hand upward?

That's why they describe it as through the ball. You're not lifting...simply adding revolutions with the follow through.



Also, how could one ever be accurate pulling to the side on release, unless the actual throw was off target?

Not pulling to the side. Just following through with a curvature motion. The ball is going to follow the path of your arm swing...adding angled revolutions is not enough to alter its initial path.

Again...I'm not the expert...this is just my analysis of what I'm seeing in the videos.

[bowl1820]

Does that refer to actually lifting the ball, or moving the hand upward?

The old "lift" release for the most part involved snapping the wrist and fingers upward at the last moment (aka: Hitting up on the ball) while releasing the ball on the upswing.

A crude analogy would be to take a soup can and hold it like a ball, Kneel down and swing it beside you like a bowling ball. Right as it passes your ankle and starts up, flip the can off the tips of your fingers. The can will arc up some and drop in front of you and roll off. That's basically lift.

You had to use lift in the pre urethane days (Rubber, Plastic) because the balls were low friction, didn't have dynamic cores and you had to make the ball hook it wouldn't do it itself.


Well, I could certainly roll harder with the fingers, but that would be “lifting”, which seems to be bad? I’m not sure why that is exactly...
With today's balls, They have high friction surfaces and dynamic cores. They don't need the extra help of lift to make them hook, While you still could put lift on a ball and make it hook just that much more. It makes them over react, which can get you into trouble as the conditions change, plus it wastes energy etc

Today it's about projection down the lane, using the same crude analogy. Right when the can gets to your ankle release it and let it roll off your hand and fingers as you push it across the floor in front of you. The can doesn't arc into the air (wasting energy) and it goes rolling off.
.
Yes there's more too it than that, this is just trying to give you a visual.


Also, how could one ever be accurate pulling to the side on release, unless the actual throw was off target?

As Astropin said The ball is going to follow the path of your arm swing, your not pulling the ball to the side.

Maybe Coach Joe Slowinski doing the fouline drill is a better visual:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fr9lDk848-g

or Norm Duke demoing the release drill..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m4NMuITGuGY

another is Bill Hall doing the release drill
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m4NMuITGuGY

[fordman1]

So we cant use the underhand football pass any more. One other thing can you use the modern release without laying in down on the floor. Some of us are past the getting the ball down to our ankle.

[bowl1820]

So we cant use the underhand football pass any more.
Yes you can still use it.

The underhand football drill is about hand position and rotation, Not Lift vs Not Lifting.

For those that don't know the football drill.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mCdMhD9jTko


One other thing can you use the modern release without laying in down on the floor. Some of us are past the getting the ball down to our ankle.

Yes, If you have knee problems and can't get real low, you do the best you can.

[Astropin]

I would add this. The modern release is all about maximizing the energy you put into the ball at release. How you follow through with your fingers will dictate both the speed and direction of the revolutions you impart. If you come straight up the back with no arc then your ball is going to go straighter with maximum speed. If you curve the path of your fingers on release it angles the revolutions away from the pins which would slightly slow down your ball as it travels down the lane but will impart more hook.

The energy you transfer into the ball has to go somewhere. If the revolutions are straight at the pins then the energy all goes towards speed. As you rotate your fingers more and more you put more and more of that energy into the balls hooking potential and reduce some of the speed.

[mx1alex]

I've learned a lot in this thread. Thanks to those who've shared!

[boatman37]

Well sort of tried this tonight on my first practice ball. Tonight was for the championship so didn't want to screw it up (which I did anyway). Tried it my first practice shot. My hand generally hangs down sort of flat anyway so I didn't do the first part of the 'yo-yo'. Just before release I sort of cupped my hand upward. I'm sure I didn't do it very good but the ball rolled more like a full roller. I didn't even try again after that but plan to over the summer. The one team that has about a 220 team average was beside us and I watched the one guy (the PSO). He gets a ton of pin action and I was watching his release tonight and a few others on the team and they all do it.

Tonight we had to bowl our first game on a set of lanes then for the 2nd game move to the next pair to the right then then 3rd move to the next pair to the right. Well this team was on the pair to the right and I had heard others comment throughout the year about bowling against these guys and how hard it is because they carry oil down the lanes. Well our right handers were having trouble all night. They don't typically have to move much throughout the night but tonight they were complaining about how dry the lanes had got. I'm a lefty so I didn't have that issue but it was interesting to hear and see how dry they got (I assume from following these high rev bowlers?)

So on to my games....148, 154, and 180. Horrible. We finished next to last tonight (we finished the regular season in 2nd)

[GrumpyCatFace]

Well, I think I’ve made some progress on this. Last night at league (we’re out of contention anyway), I experimented with cocking my wrist to the left a bit in my stance, and holding that way until release. Revs increased!

I’m sure that I still don’t quite have this right, but it’s encouraging to at least see some result in the hook.

My biggest sticking point seems to be at the point of release - how to position my height properly to “unwind” the wrist both straight and down at the right time. I also experienced some trouble with getting my fingers to pull through, but I’m still speed-dominant by far, and that’s limiting my curve quite a bit.

Luckily, I have all summer to figure it out.

[GrumpyCatFace]

IT FINALLY CLICKED!!!

I realized that my whole issue was with using my arm too much. Once I finally got myself to relax my shoulder/bicep, my average jumped 40 pins. WOW what a difference!

[boatman37]

IT FINALLY CLICKED!!!

I realized that my whole issue was with using my arm too much. Once I finally got myself to relax my shoulder/bicep, my average jumped 40 pins. WOW what a difference!

Well I need it to 'click'...lol. Yesterday I was in a store with my wife. I hate shopping so have to find something to occupy myself so I grabbed a little Nerf football and started tossing it up in the air. Then I remembered reading on here somewhere about the modern release being compared to tossing a football underhand? I wanted so bad to try it in the store launching it forward but my wife wouldn't have been happy...lol.

So if this is correct then when applied to bowling think of releasing the ball from the side (suitcase style) as 90* and coming straight up the back as being 0*. So you want to be more like 45*, or maybe even less, when releasing using this? I tried it one day in practice but I was more behind the ball and it pretty much rolled straight with a slight hook.

[GrumpyCatFace]

Well I need it to 'click'...lol. Yesterday I was in a store with my wife. I hate shopping so have to find something to occupy myself so I grabbed a little Nerf football and started tossing it up in the air. Then I remembered reading on here somewhere about the modern release being compared to tossing a football underhand? I wanted so bad to try it in the store launching it forward but my wife wouldn't have been happy...lol.

So if this is correct then when applied to bowling think of releasing the ball from the side (suitcase style) as 90* and coming straight up the back as being 0*. So you want to be more like 45*, or maybe even less, when releasing using this? I tried it one day in practice but I was more behind the ball and it pretty much rolled straight with a slight hook.

Yep. I had the very same issue.

I think the experienced bowlers keep saying ‘behind the ball’ to mean ‘not a suitcase’, but to us, it sounds more like ‘RIGHT BEHIND IT’.

We need to be around 20-30 degrees off to the side, and I’ve gotten a much better result by cocking my wrist to the side, in the stance.

I tried twisting my wrist at the top/middle of the swing, but the timing is not very repeatable. Better to ‘set it and forget it’.

But the biggest change was simply forcing myself to accept the timing of the swing, and not trying to adjust during my approach. Every single time I “swung it” with my arm, I launched the ball off to the side, or screwed up my release. It has to be a pendulum. That slows the ball enough, and allows you to concentrate on the release enough for it to come together.

[boatman37]

Yep. I had the very same issue.

I think the experienced bowlers keep saying ‘behind the ball’ to mean ‘not a suitcase’, but to us, it sounds more like ‘RIGHT BEHIND IT’.

We need to be around 20-30 degrees off to the side, and I’ve gotten a much better result by cocking my wrist to the side, in the stance.

I tried twisting my wrist at the top/middle of the swing, but the timing is not very repeatable. Better to ‘set it and forget it’.

But the biggest change was simply forcing myself to accept the timing of the swing, and not trying to adjust during my approach. Every single time I “swung it” with my arm, I launched the ball off to the side, or screwed up my release. It has to be a pendulum. That slows the ball enough, and allows you to concentrate on the release enough for it to come together.

Well part of my problem is probably that I am an experienced bowler but sat out the last 15 years. Hard to teach an old dog new tricks. I do seem to be at about that 20-30* mark but I simply let the ball roll off my fingertips. Seems like maybe all I need to do is to finish the last step of the yo-yo and get that flick up in my wrist at the end?

Still not sure I will adopt this release but will try it a few more times. If I can get my consistency back then I know I can be a 210 bowler and I only bowl leagues so not concerned with having the highest average. I don't plan on any tournaments. I also want to be sure I don't create any type of injuries. I can't use my right arm due to an accident at 4 years old so can't afford any injuries to my left arm...lol.

[GrumpyCatFace]

There is a very slight snap of the wrist at the end. The only point that you ‘accelerate’ is after the thumb is out. Just a flick of the wrist, as they say.

This is why I start with the wrist cocked to the side, and then just let it pull off my hand at the end.

[HowDoIHookAgain]

I've always followed the rule of staying behind the ball. Lot less work for me to do and I feel like I'm more consistent this way

[Astropin]

I've always followed the rule of staying behind the ball. Lot less work for me to do and I feel like I'm more consistent this way

My only issue with this term "Staying behind the ball" implies you never do anything with your fingers at release and just follow straight through the ball? If you did your ball is going to be rotating straight at the pins and the ball is going to go straight. That's how I throw my spare ball and it goes dead straight. Sure an aggressive core and cover might make it move a tiny bit overall...but it's not going to "hook".

If you do "stay behind the ball" then you need to rotate your fingers through the ball at release in order to generate revs away from the pins and generate an eventual curve/hook.

Either that or you have to "old school" come off the side of the ball which involves some lifting in order to get the ball to curve.

[GrumpyCatFace]

Maybe I’m going a little bit old school, I really don’t know. I was staying directly behind, and trying to twist with my fingers, but I mostly ended up making my knuckles really sore.

[boatman37]

Maybe I’m going a little bit old school, I really don’t know. I was staying directly behind, and trying to twist with my fingers, but I mostly ended up making my knuckles really sore.

Shouldn't be twisting anything. Let the ball do the work. I come up sort of behind the ball. If 1/2 way behind the ball (suitcase is 90* and behind is 0* I'm probably about 30*. I don't do any 'twisting'. Just follow through. That follow through at that angle automatically starts the ball forward with a slight inward roll. Sounds like what you are doing is more of a spinner style?

[GrumpyCatFace]

Shouldn't be twisting anything. Let the ball do the work. I come up sort of behind the ball. If 1/2 way behind the ball (suitcase is 90* and behind is 0* I'm probably about 30*. I don't do any 'twisting'. Just follow through. That follow through at that angle automatically starts the ball forward with a slight inward roll. Sounds like what you are doing is more of a spinner style?

No that’s exactly what I’m doing now. Sort of halfway behind it, and just letting it fall off my hand that way. I cock my wrist to the side a bit, and cup it a little, which puts me a bit off to the side from “directly behind it.

[RobLV1]

In reading back over the comments posted here, I'm seeing a couple of things that need clarification.

First of all, concerning what you feel in your release, please let me refer you to an article I wrote for BTM entitled, "In Search of the All-Elusive Nothing." To summarize, I interviewed top Tour Pros, Senior Touring Pros, and Top Amateurs. I asked them all to describe what they feel when they throw a perfect shot. EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM REPLIED THE SAME: "NOTHING!" A great majority of the bowlers that I have been able to help with one-on-one lessons have benefited the most from one simple thought: the more you try to "make" the ball hook, the less it hooks. The idea is to let it hook rather than make it hook.

Secondly, many of you seem to be confusing where you are at the end of your release with where you should be at the beginning of the release: behind the ball. If you truly want to develop a modern release, here's a program for you to follow this summer:

1. Starting with the weight of the ball at the junction between your index finger and your middle finger, with your thumb pointing at 2 o'clock (right hander), bowl one game using a one-step approach, trying to throw a back-up ball: ball curving from left to right. Your thumb should end up at three o'clock, with your pinky coming around the left side of the ball. You should see your track going either between the finger holes and the thumb hole, or, at least, thumping over the thumb hole. Continue this drill until you see your track at least thumping over the thumb hole. Once you see this, bowl three games using your full approach but using this back-up ball release. Score doesn't matter. Getting your hand in this position at the beginning of the release does!

2. Once you are able to roll the ball over the thumbhole consistently, go back to the one-step drill, this time starting at the same position (thumb at 2 o'clock), and practice finishing in this same position. THIS IS COMING UP THE BACK OF THE BALL. The ball should be tracking very near the thumb hole. Once it is, bowl a couple of games until you can track the ball consistently near the thumb hole without hitting it.

3. Finally, once you have done this, go back to the one-step drill, starting in the same position, and gently rotate your wrist as you release the ball, so that your thumb ends up pointing between 11 and 12 o'clock. The thumb should NEVER be left of 11 o'clock. If it is, you have succeeded in coming "OVER THE TOP", effectively destroying everything you have accomplished.

Once you are able to perfect all three of these releases, you will hopefully find that you can vary the rotation and the tilt of the ball to produce different amounts of hook at different lengths down the lane.

This sounds like a lot of work, and it is, but it's worth it!

[djp1080]

Rob,
Thanks for your wonderful post. I'll give your recommendation a go.
I tended to not make much use of the one step drill. What caught my eye recently was the video of Coach Diaz and his recommended one step drill with minimal upper body.
I have a bad habit of pulling up the ball on the back swing and at the top of the swing my hand turns back and forth looking for something I guess. I don't even know that I'm doing it. By opening my hand a bit so that the palm of my hand opens a little toward the right seems to keep my hand quiet. Most times my pulling up on the back swing has at least diminished.
Now I have something to work on during this Summer. :) Thanks again!

[GrumpyCatFace]

You’re putting the clock face on top of the ball, right? Otherwise that would break my arm lol.

I believe I’m at a 1 o’clock position.

[bowl1820]

You’re putting the clock face on top of the ball, right? Otherwise that would break my arm lol.

I believe I’m at a 1 o’clock position.

There are basically two perspectives of how to view the "clock".

One is if you think of the clock as if it were lying on the approach directly under the ball. With 12 pointing towards the pins and 6 pointing behind you

https://s5.postimg.cc/s1whc5ehj/clockon_Lane.jpg

Second is if you look at the ball from the behind, 12 is toward the ceiling and 6 towards the floor.

https://s5.postimg.cc/x1txjq207/clockfrombehind.jpg


In the three examples below the yellow line represents the clock lying on the approach under the ball.

In example A, the fingers are positioned at 4 & 4:30 (represented by the red dots on the clock face)

In example B1, the fingers are positioned at 6 & 5:30 (represented by the red dots on the clock face)

In example B2, the fingers have moved to 4:30 & 5 (represented by the red dots on the clock face)

https://s5.postimg.cc/wb17e6rzr/clock_face_view.jpg

[RobLV1]

You’re putting the clock face on top of the ball, right? Otherwise that would break my arm lol.

I believe I’m at a 1 o’clock position.

Yes, 12 o'clock is at the top of the ball. If your thumb is at one o'clock to start, it's impossible to have the weight of the ball on your palm unless you rotate your hand clockwise on the backswing. I actually do this when I am trying to throw a backup ball at the ten pin; the clockwise rotation before the release encourages it to continue through the release as I am attempting to back it up. For the strike shot, it is much more efficient to start with the weight of the ball on the palm and just keep it there as the release process begins.

[GrumpyCatFace]

Ok, so in my stance, my wrist is cocked to the left. Thumb at 4-5 o’clock from above.

I keep it cocked that way through release, at which point my fingers are at 7, thumb at 1 o’clock from behind. Since I’m also cupping a bit, my thumb is at 5 o’clock from above, fingers at 10-11.

At that point, I just let the ball fall off my hand, and follow through with zero shoulder engagement, and it curves just like it should.

Not a suitcase, not holding the side of it, but definitely not straight “up the back” either.

Maybe I’m just weird, I don’t know lol.

[RobLV1]

Ok, so in my stance, my wrist is cocked to the left. Thumb at 4-5 o’clock from above.

I keep it cocked that way through release, at which point my fingers are at 7, thumb at 1 o’clock from behind. Since I’m also cupping a bit, my thumb is at 5 o’clock from above, fingers at 10-11.

At that point, I just let the ball fall off my hand, and follow through with zero shoulder engagement, and it curves just like it should.

Not a suitcase, not holding the side of it, but definitely not straight “up the back” either.

Maybe I’m just weird, I don’t know lol.

If your thumb is at 4-5, there is NO WAY that you can roll the ball without coming over the top of the ball. You are "trying" to make the ball curve, instead of rolling it and "letting" it curve. Big difference! When you try to make the ball curve, it never gets into a roll and ends up hitting like a toasted marshmallow, leaving corner pins galore. Try the drill that I posted below, and learn to roll it. Until you learn to accept the fact that you do not have control over anything in bowling, you'll never be good at it.

[rv driver]

It's not the drill pattern...I have three balls drilled from aggressive hook to neutral (my spare ball) and if I come straight through the ball from the back they all go straight. The aggressive one will hook a tiny bit.



Well that's what everyone keeps saying...but if you watch the pro's in slow motion that is not what appears to be happening. It looks like the thumb comes out but then the fingers ROTATE through the ball. They do not come straight up the back. By the time their fingers actually leave the ball there is a definite motion towards the gutter with the fingers....putting revs on the ball that are not directly at the pins. The ball is spinning towards the gutter (but the path is away from the gutter). That's the only way I can even imagine a big hook happening. When the ball heads down the lane it's revving pretty hard towards the gutter...generating the eventual hook. No way to do that if you release straight up the back towards the pins (which is what people keep saying...and I've tired).

The only way I can see that happening (letting the ball turn your hand) is if your hand is in the right position as soon as the thumb comes out. Which would be a little more on the side of the ball then completely behind. Then your finger would naturally push through the ball at a slight angle creating spin (revs) at an angle away from the pins...allowing it to hook.

So my question to the experts - where are your fingers when the thumb exits? Where are your fingers when they exit? (I guess use a clock for reference). I'm a lefty but can figure it out if you describe it "righty".
From what I’ve seen (and, mind, I haven’t tried the modern release yet) is that the hand is behind the ball, but not DIRECTLY behind the ball. That is, the Palm is offset — like at the 5:00 position, not 6:00 (righty). This puts the weight of the ball more toward the pinky side of the palm, which weight would pull the hand to the outside slightly at the release. Yes?