pocket 9's (and my line)

[boatman37]

So after 6 strong weeks I had 3 bad ones then last week a pretty good one again and noticed something. My BWG goes a little longer and a little more backend than my Kingpin but no matter which one I throw if I get inside the 6 or 7 board I cannot strike even with a pocket hit. No real consistency as to which pin(s) I leave but just not sure why. Likely it's the angle or maybe deflection but I throw pretty fast. I'm not a high rev bowler.

Any reason for this? I can throw strikes all game but if I move in just a little and hit the pocket no strike. I'm fine with throwing outside like this but would like to know what causes it so maybe I can fix it.

[J Anderson]

So after 6 strong weeks I had 3 bad ones then last week a pretty good one again and noticed something. My BWG goes a little longer and a little more backend than my Kingpin but no matter which one I throw if I get inside the 6 or 7 board I cannot strike even with a pocket hit. No real consistency as to which pin(s) I leave but just not sure why. Likely it's the angle or maybe deflection but I throw pretty fast. I'm not a high rev bowler.

Any reason for this? I can throw strikes all game but if I move in just a little and hit the pocket no strike. I'm fine with throwing outside like this but would like to know what causes it so maybe I can fix it.

While a certain TV commentator would say that the 9 pin is a true tap for a lefty, it isn’t really just a case of bad luck. As you move inside the angle decreases and the ball will deflect more.

If the shot is allowing you to strike from outside the 7 board, why would you want to move in? In practice it’s good to try striking from all the parts of the lane. In competition you wait until you can see the ball start to lose its effectivness.

[boatman37]

While a certain TV commentator would say that the 9 pin is a true tap for a lefty, it isn’t really just a case of bad luck. As you move inside the angle decreases and the ball will deflect more.

If the shot is allowing you to strike from outside the 7 board, why would you want to move in? In practice it’s good to try striking from all the parts of the lane. In competition you wait until you can see the ball start to lose its effectivness.

Don't really 'want' to move in but maybe understanding why might help me mid game if I start having issues or just a better understanding of what the ball is doing. My game is night and day difference as to if I throw 1st arrow of move a little inside (even 2 or 3 boards makes a big difference). Seems I average around 190 if I throw 1st arrow and about 165 if I throw between the 7-10 board.

What made me realize it is for 3 weeks I was throwing closer to 2nd arrow and not getting strikes even with pocket hits. Last week I made sure I went out a little further and shot a 589 with 18 strikes. Started thinking back to the summer league and remembered doing the same thing a few weeks in. After 4 weeks I was averaging 154 then moved to the 1st arrow and made a huge difference. Ended that league with a 177 but averaged 190 the last 6 weeks. So same thing last week.

FWIW my ball rolls very similar to Wayne Garber except lefty (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fIHsmoYRxec). I don't have that approach or high backswing but my ball motion is similar. Straight down the 5 board until it hits the dry, similar to a hockey stick shape.

Dunno. Was just curious what the thoughts were and hoping I might be able to gain any knowledge from it.

[J Anderson]

The pocket is a funny thing. I was taught that the pocket was the area between the 1 pin and the 3 pin for us righties. Then, much later in one of my coaching workshops, I learned the pocket is the 17.5 board since a ball hitting the pins at that particular spot is almost always a strike. For professional and top amateur bowlers, who get the ball to the pins with a certain combination of speed, angle, mass, and ball roll, the pocket is much bigger. If you can’t generate sufficient momentum, angle, or if your ball rolls out too early, or if it doesn’t get into the roll phase, your pocket is much closer to being a single point. To make matters worse, you’re trying to observe a ball that has been moving in a curve, probably between 13 and 17 mph, from a distance of 60 feet.

My guess is that when you move in, while it may look like it’s still in the pocket, the ball is skidding just a bit too much and hitting just a bit light. Slowing the ball down, or adding surface to the ball may help it read the lane sooner carry that pesky 9 pin.

[Amyers]

Odds are J is correct here or at least one of the possible causes. I feel like leaving an occasional 9 or an 8 for a righty is ok we aren't perfect but if your seeing them consistently something is wrong. You are probably a little light or it's possible your ball is burning up just a little and not finishing through. Are you seeing this with all three balls? I'm thinking if it's a burning up issue that shouldn't be happening with the Rhino?

[boatman37]

Odds are J is correct here or at least one of the possible causes. I feel like leaving an occasional 9 or an 8 for a righty is ok we aren't perfect but if your seeing them consistently something is wrong. You are probably a little light or it's possible your ball is burning up just a little and not finishing through. Are you seeing this with all three balls? I'm thinking if it's a burning up issue that shouldn't be happening with the Rhino?

I don't usually use the Rhino. I bought it for spares but struggled with it and get the corner pins better with the Kingpin. The Rhino went almost straight...lol. Wondering if what J said is right about it not getting into a roll? My speed at the pins is about 17-17.5 on our sensors and about 1-1.5MPH faster than most others in my league. If I'm in the heavier oil it might not have a chance to get traction and be deflecting?

[Amyers]

Could be that was the starkest difference. Are you getting the 9s with both the king pin and the black widow? You shouldn't be seeing heavier oil at the 5 or 6 board. On most patterns that's damn near the desert there lol.

[boatman37]

5 or 6 is still good. Much more inside than that and I start leaving a pin here or there. The last 3 weeks when I was throwing closer to 7-10 I was hitting 29% strikes where since returning this past January I am at 40% strikes and the previous weeks when I was averaging 190 I was about 55-60% strikes (just struggle with spares which is a different story...lol)

[Amyers]

How long has it been since you refreshed the surface on that kingpin?

[boatman37]

I haven't yet. Just bought it this summer but had the same issue when it was new. Same with the BWG. I hit one that with a 2000 CTD pad awhile back with no polish. But thinking back seems like this has always been an issue with me, even 20 years ago before I quit bowling. I had always had the best results way out on the first arrow. Seems the way my ball finishes (any ball I have had) the angle is best if I am outside. I tried throwing inside (2nd and 3rd arrows) but have very inconsistent results. Probably much of that is me and not sticking with it to perfect it but seems I don't have to do any 'perfecting' if I go to the first arrow. I only play THS so I'm sure that helps my line but just seems odd.

[Amyers]

Could be just the way you play although to suddenly start leaving 9 pins in strange. I find it unusual to have the same issue with a polished and a non polished ball they should be taking different angles to the pocket

[Phonetek]

I haven't yet. Just bought it this summer but had the same issue when it was new. Same with the BWG. I hit one that with a 2000 CTD pad awhile back with no polish. But thinking back seems like this has always been an issue with me, even 20 years ago before I quit bowling. I had always had the best results way out on the first arrow. Seems the way my ball finishes (any ball I have had) the angle is best if I am outside. I tried throwing inside (2nd and 3rd arrows) but have very inconsistent results. Probably much of that is me and not sticking with it to perfect it but seems I don't have to do any 'perfecting' if I go to the first arrow. I only play THS so I'm sure that helps my line but just seems odd.

I think like many bowlers you are afraid to change up your line once you've started with one. You think you're going to do worse if you do so, then you continue to move your feet a couple boards here and there hitting the same target. Fact is you have to play the lanes how they play best, no matter what you think you aren't going to make the lanes play the way you want them to play. It just doesn't work that way unfortunately. Sometimes you just gotta throw caution to the wind and take a chance and make the change and see what happens. Yep, you could do worse but on the other hand you might find that magic line you never thought would work but does.

[boatman37]

I think like many bowlers you are afraid to change up your line once you've started with one. You think you're going to do worse if you do so, then you continue to move your feet a couple boards here and there hitting the same target. Fact is you have to play the lanes how they play best, no matter what you think you aren't going to make the lanes play the way you want them to play. It just doesn't work that way unfortunately. Sometimes you just gotta throw caution to the wind and take a chance and make the change and see what happens. Yep, you could do worse but on the other hand you might find that magic line you never thought would work but does.

I've tried that a few times...still haven't found the magic line...lol. But I'm sure if I stuck to it and dedicated my playing time to an inside line I could get better with it. Just odd that it's like a light switch and it's consistent. I can hit the pocket and roll strikes all night then move inside and no more strikes.

It's not always the 9 pin. The most common in the last 3 weeks has been the 6 pin. It might be a 5 or an 8 but generally a 9 count of some sort.

I told my teammates to keep reminding me tonight to hit that first arrow so we will see how it goes.

I do notice my ball breaks sharper down lane when I throw first arrow. 2nd arrow is a little less aggressive turn in. What might that mean?

Here are my scores with leaves. Last week was good and I was hitting the first arrow. The previous 3 weeks I was closer to about board 7-10: http://www.bowlingboards.com/threads/21452-Boatman37-s-scores

[boatman37]

Well I think I'm on to something. Struggled to hit the 1st arrow the first 2 games and it was pretty dry out there so threw a little harder. I stuck with the Kingpin all night. What I did notice was right after the start of the 3rd game I remembered that I had been sort of turning my shoulder on my backswing (opening up). I hadn't done that all night tonight so started and hit the pocket pretty consistently the rest of the game. Still had some 9 counts but was consistent and felt much better. Another thing I changed was early on I was starting with the ball near my waist. Because of the dry lanes and trying to get more speed I moved the ball closer to my chest height and that helped too.

Something else I noticed is my spare shooting has been horrible and I miss them to the inside. My ball is over-hooking past the pins. I also noticed my ball revving way higher when this happens. Obviously I'm doing something different but no idea what but pretty sure that's the main reason for my spare struggles.

https://i.postimg.cc/fLtgxMDp/2018-10-09.png (https://postimages.org/)

[fordman1]

I went back and reread you original post you left a lot of 1 pin spares is what I read. last night I left 14 10 pins made 11 and also left 2 pocket 7-10's. Couple of 7 pins and an 8. Had two 2-8-10's and chopped the 6 off the 10. I think that is 8 opens. Was happy to get the night over.

[boatman37]

We have 3 leftys on our team and last night we all 3 left the 7 pin in a row with what looked to be perfect pocket shots and to top it off one of our righties left the 10 pin in the same frame.