question about choosing a new ball

[boatman37]

So when I bowled in the 90's I used a Brunswick Cobalt Rhino. After a 15 year layoff I came back and bought a Hammer Black Widow Gold that rolled way different than anything I ever tried, but then again I had never even bowled on synthetic lanes until then. So a few months later I bought a Brunswick Kingpin and it rolled similar to my old Cobalt Rhino. We were practicing one day and one of our top bowlers commented on how that ball fit my style perfectly. The PSO also commented how maybe Brunswick is just a better ball for me (although he may have been joking).

So my typical line is right up the 5-7 board. I'm a low rev bowler so anything inside the 10 board will pretty much roll straight but I have got a few nice strikes with lots of drive when I hit it right but it is almost straight. I do typically throw about 17.0-17.5 MPH at the pins

So I'm not looking for a new ball anytime soon but a teammate just ordered a DV8 Pitbull and I had been considering Radical for my next ball. If I were looking for one what would I look for in specs? Why would one be a better choice than another? Or just order something and alter the cover to get it to what I want?

Considering I like the Kingpin better than the BWG I assume something with similar characteristics? The BWG rolls longer with a more aggressive turn down lane.

[RobLV1]

You can't just "order something and alter the cover to get what you want." Modern bowling balls have cores in them and, while surface does determine 75% of ball reaction, ignoring the other 25% is like trying to drive your car on three tires. Look at the core shape, the symmetry of the core (or the amount of asymmetry in the case of the BWG and the Kingpin), and the cover material. Most importantly, find a PSO that you trust... he probably wasn't kidding when he said that Brunswick is a better fit for your style. Different companies cover materials have different characteristics; they are not all the same.

[boatman37]

You can't just "order something and alter the cover to get what you want." Modern bowling balls have cores in them and, while surface does determine 75% of ball reaction, ignoring the other 25% is like trying to drive your car on three tires. Look at the core shape, the symmetry of the core (or the amount of asymmetry in the case of the BWG and the Kingpin), and the cover material. Most importantly, find a PSO that you trust... he probably wasn't kidding when he said that Brunswick is a better fit for your style. Different companies cover materials have different characteristics; they are not all the same.

Thanks Rob. My PSO seems to know his stuff but back in the 90's when I bought my last ball the PSO pretty much sold you what he had on the shelf. Back then I'm sure it didn't matter as much but without me knowing that much I have trouble trusting others when it comes to that. I'm the type of person that wants to knew the technicals and ins and outs of something before I trust somebody else...sort of my way of verifying I can trust them....lol. I probably should just trust him though. I guess my hangup is he never watched me throw my ball. I can see that with the first one I bought because he had nothing to go on but even the next two he never came out and watched me. He just asked if my first one felt good and drilled it up the same. The Kingpin I told him I liked the way the Storm Sync rolled that I got off another bowler so he took a picture of the pin location and MB and drilled the Kingpin in a similar layout with my hole measurements and span. I have no complaints on the way the Kingpin is and love it but it doesn't roll like the Sync I told him I liked...lol.

I just hate to go tell him I want a Radical ***** and then hate it because it doesn't do what I want it to.

[mc_runner]

If you haven't already, it's probably worth learning about RG/Diff and how they affect the (potential) shape of a ball - and how your personal stats come into play as well. Depending on what you want, you'll narrow the list way down when you start looking at those in addition to cover.

There are some guides/posts in here that would be a good starting spot.

[RobLV1]

boatman: If your PSO works out of the shop in the bowling center and he has never come out to watch you bowl, find a new PSO. That is inexcusable IMHO.

In terms of the Storm Sync was in many Storm affectionado's opinions, one of the worst balls that Storm ever produced. I never threw one, but I saw many roll and I am in total agreement with that opinion. The reason is that it had a very strong core paired with a very weak cover. Combinations like this rarely work, and the Sync was no exception.

[boatman37]

boatman: If your PSO works out of the shop in the bowling center and he has never come out to watch you bowl, find a new PSO. That is inexcusable IMHO.

In terms of the Storm Sync was in many Storm affectionado's opinions, one of the worst balls that Storm ever produced. I never threw one, but I saw many roll and I am in total agreement with that opinion. The reason is that it had a very strong core paired with a very weak cover. Combinations like this rarely work, and the Sync was no exception.

lol. This was the first 'new style' ball I used when I came back. Previous was the Cobalt Rhino. It wasn't drilled quite right for me and I always said I threw more of a straight ball with a slight hook at the end. Got this Sync off a fellow lefty and after the first roll said 'holy crap!, I can throw a real hook'...lol. My first game with it I rolled a 244 but then followed that up with a 124...lol. Anyway, put that ball in my office when I got my own and found it had cracked the whole way around while sitting here. The BWG has a similar shape but not quite as aggressive on the turn in. The Kingpin reads earlier and is a smoother arc.

And yes, my PSO has seen me bowl as we are in the same league and watched me throw 2 or 3 shots when I first picked up the BWG from him but that is the extent of it. Have never had my PAP checked or axis or anything. The only thing I could really tell you is my initial track is about 1" from my thumb and about 2.5" from my middle finger...lol. Thats the extent of it.

Here are mine.

https://i.postimg.cc/HnByP9Gn/IMG-3690.jpg (https://postimg.cc/9ww0DTQH)
https://i.postimg.cc/Kz7LtyJn/IMG-3691.jpg (https://postimg.cc/phTpt3NT)
https://i.postimg.cc/26FCSgH5/IMG-2389.jpg (https://postimg.cc/47dD82RC)

[TTREX]

So when I bowled in the 90's I used a Brunswick Cobalt Rhino. After a 15 year layoff I came back and bought a Hammer Black Widow Gold that rolled way different than anything I ever tried, but then again I had never even bowled on synthetic lanes until then. So a few months later I bought a Brunswick Kingpin and it rolled similar to my old Cobalt Rhino. We were practicing one day and one of our top bowlers commented on how that ball fit my style perfectly. The PSO also commented how maybe Brunswick is just a better ball for me (although he may have been joking).

So my typical line is right up the 5-7 board. I'm a low rev bowler so anything inside the 10 board will pretty much roll straight but I have got a few nice strikes with lots of drive when I hit it right but it is almost straight. I do typically throw about 17.0-17.5 MPH at the pins

So I'm not looking for a new ball anytime soon but a teammate just ordered a DV8 Pitbull and I had been considering Radical for my next ball. If I were looking for one what would I look for in specs? Why would one be a better choice than another? Or just order something and alter the cover to get it to what I want?

Considering I like the Kingpin better than the BWG I assume something with similar characteristics? The BWG rolls longer with a more aggressive turn down lane.

Looks like you know your game well, and from reading what you said i already know that Brunswick will fit you the best. A lot of people describe Brunswick as being rolly meaning they are more roll than per say skid snap like the BWG..Now keep in mind that DV8 and Radical are made at the Brunswick facility, so to keep within a range of something that rolls the way you like as in the rhino or kingpin line....on the next ball be it dv8 or Radical compare the core shapes and RG numbers, that might help you get something close without getting a ball that is too skid snappy...etc Asymetric cores will be more skid snap then symetric cores for example.

[boatman37]

Looks like you know your game well, and from reading what you said i already know that Brunswick will fit you the best. A lot of people describe Brunswick as being rolly meaning they are more roll than per say skid snap like the BWG..Now keep in mind that DV8 and Radical are made at the Brunswick facility, so to keep within a range of something that rolls the way you like as in the rhino or kingpin line....on the next ball be it dv8 or Radical compare the core shapes and RG numbers, that might help you get something close without getting a ball that is too skid snappy...etc Asymetric cores will be more skid snap then symetric cores for example.

I guess that is kind of what I was wondering. Does one brand roll differently than another? If you removed all identifiers from a ball and had different brands drilled identical would you be able to tell which is which? Or do some have certain characteristics across the board that makes them unique across their lineup?

[RobLV1]

I guess that is kind of what I was wondering. Does one brand roll differently than another? If you removed all identifiers from a ball and had different brands drilled identical would you be able to tell which is which? Or do some have certain characteristics across the board that makes them unique across their lineup?

Yes, different brands roll differently. There are three characteristics of cover materials that are measured by the USBC: Coefficient of Friction (COF) in oil, COF on dry, and oil absorption. While these characteristics are tested when the balls are submitted to the USBC for approval, the results are not published for the consumer (bowler). Brunswick balls are usually described as being more "rolly" as a result of having a higher COF in oil than on dry. You can't have it both ways, so this results in less reactivity in friction.

Again, the wording of your question kind of concerns me in that you mention identical drilling, but not core characteristics. The one thing about a bowling that we as consumers are told everything is the core. It is well worth while to learn about core characteristics when shopping for new equipment.

[Albundy]

I was given a choice of 2 balls. He didn't even mention the other ones he had that I think we're similar. The idol he didn't even have he ordered it. I'm sure he doesn't know every ball..

[Amyers]

Even among the same brands different makes will roll different than another ball. From what I've seen Brunswick tends to be more even rolling than Storm doesn't mean that storm can't make an even rolling ball (check out a IQ tour) or Brunswick a skid snap reaction but the tendencies are their. I would not suggest picking a ball by brand only an expecting a reaction.

If you want more even rolling balls pick balls with more surface, lower RG, and stronger covers

If you want more skid snap balls go with more polished surfaces, higher RG, and weaker covers


Truthfully buying a ball by brand is simply the worst way of choosing a ball.

[boatman37]

If you want more even rolling balls pick balls with more surface, lower RG, and stronger covers

If you want more skid snap balls go with more polished surfaces, higher RG, and weaker covers


Truthfully buying a ball by brand is simply the worst way of choosing a ball.

Thanks! That's the kind of info I think I needed.

[JoeInPI]

Another thing to take with a grain of salt is review videos, especially from manufacturers- every ball hits hard with a 20 mph/500+ rev pro throwing it. I would really consider trying to learn the "new" ways of how balls are set up. Back in those days of the Cobalt Rhino (I had one too!) and the Faballs, everything was different. It is much more clear what to look for when you understand how the modern measurements like PAP/AR/AT etc. affect a ball's motion and how the core and coverstock combined with surface modification all work together. At least then you know what to ask Mo later. :D There are some good videos you can look at on YT by Radical/Mo, Master, etc- that will start to make some of these things clearer.

[RobLV1]

Truthfully buying a ball by brand is simply the worst way of choosing a ball.

I have to disagree here for the simple reason that information about cover materials is not shared with bowlers. We are not told what the COF in oil is. We are not told what the COF on dry is. We are not told how absorbent the materials are. We are only fed marketing rhetoric about how the materials react. While Brunswick told us that the Fortera Exile went long and snapped, the ball was a total dud. The same with the supposed smooth rolling Storm Sync. Brand loyalty among non-staffers makes no sense for bowlers who bowl on tournament conditions where different types of rolls are actually needed. On a house shot it really does very little except to look cool to other bowlers.

[boatman37]

I had a Storm Sync that a fellow lefty gave me when I first came back. Didn't quite fit me right but was close. It had more back end snap than anything I have ever thrown, including the Kingpin and Black Widow Gold. I couldn't tell you the technical reasons why other than ball design but that's what I'm trying to learn. I bowled some pretty good games with it then bought the BWG. It had some backend but not like the Sync and my scores were lower. Just had a harder time getting carries but most of that was me. The Sync seemed to be more forgiving. Then I bought the Kingpin and it has much less backend and starts grabbing the lane sooner. It seems to be more forgiving too. I tried to get the Sync redrilled for me but found it was cracked so threw it out. I wish that Sync had fit me better and was still in my bag. Now that I'm getting a little more accurate and starting to understand why I was struggling I'd like to try it again.

[Amyers]

I have to disagree here for the simple reason that information about cover materials is not shared with bowlers. We are not told what the COF in oil is. We are not told what the COF on dry is. We are not told how absorbent the materials are. We are only fed marketing rhetoric about how the materials react. While Brunswick told us that the Fortera Exile went long and snapped, the ball was a total dud. The same with the supposed smooth rolling Storm Sync. Brand loyalty among non-staffers makes no sense for bowlers who bowl on tournament conditions where different types of rolls are actually needed. On a house shot it really does very little except to look cool to other bowlers.

Holding some thoughts on ball manufacturer isn't out of line but buying a storm ball simply because I prefer balls that go long and snap is more of a fools errand than anything else. Most companies tend to come up with new cover materials and names like candy. Even if they don't do you believe that R2S from 10 years ago is the same as today's? A lot of bowlers who are pretty good don't believe it is.


We can do some prep work of knowing the core numbers, our stats, maybe watch some vids with people similar to our own styles but to some extent at least its a mystery on exactly what we are getting. Do as much research as possible, make as informed decision as you can, but at the end of the day realize that any one stat will lead you down the wrong road more often than not. Even if you do you research it's still somewhat of a lottery ticket to find that exact match with what your wanting.

[RobLV1]

Even if you do you research it's still somewhat of a lottery ticket to find that exact match with what your wanting.

Part of the research has to be an understanding of each company's marketing strategy in terms of their demographics. You are much more likely to find that exact match to what you're wanting if you factor in the marketing strategy than if you delude yourself into thinking that each manufacturers cover materials are randomly formulated to give bowlers every option that they may want.

[Amyers]

Part of the research has to be an understanding of each company's marketing strategy in terms of their demographics. You are much more likely to find that exact match to what you're wanting if you factor in the marketing strategy than if you delude yourself into thinking that each manufacturers cover materials are randomly formulated to give bowlers every option that they may want.

Oh I don't believe that they are blended to give us what we want everyone wants and needs something different. While I have enough experience throwing Brunswick to agree they are typically more rolly and I've seen enough Storm to agree they tend to skid a little more. I'm not sure that's a classification that should be used much. The Forterra Exile was a bad joke most of the staffers admitted it before the ball came out didn't take much research their. I have no idea what the general design principles are out of Hopkinsville or how much different Motive tends to be but if I take a notion to buy one that wouldn't stop me.

We need to get over this mindset of every ball being the only one I'm buying, the majority of semi serious bowlers have multiple balls and will probably purchase at least 1 a season. Everyone tends to act like its the end of life if they don't get what they intended or wanted out of a ball. Which I generally find as funny when they had little idea what they were buying to begin with.

Truthfully I don't feel much is learned if the cover on 2 that I own are R2S and I buy a new one with AI-17 on it. The majority of bowlers your lucky if they have a notion of the RG and the surface on the ball more less even knowing the name of the cover. If they gave a COF 2% of bowlers might know what that was anyway.

[JerseyJim]

Usually I buy a ball to fit a slot in my arsenal. Since I was migrating to 15 lb equipment everything was wide open. I think I have everything covered from dry to Medium-Heavy right now. If I need to cover heavier, I can add surface to my Quick Fix. I had it at 3000 for a few weeks. It forced me much further inside than I'm comfortable at this stage.