new inserts and new ball discussion

[boatman37]

Went to the bowling alley today for granddaughters birthday party but didn't bowl. Took my stuff with me and had the PSO put new inserts in my BWG. He asked it I wanted flats up or down. Wasn't sure what he meant but he said my old ones were flat down so had him install the new ones flats up. So mentioned having an interest in Radical for my next ball. He mentioned the Conspiracy would be good for me. He said it normally wouldn't be good for house shots but with my higher speed and lower revs said I should be ok.

[RobLV1]

Went to the bowling alley today for granddaughters birthday party but didn't bowl. Took my stuff with me and had the PSO put new inserts in my BWG. He asked it I wanted flats up or down. Wasn't sure what he meant but he said my old ones were flat down so had him install the new ones flats up. So mentioned having an interest in Radical for my next ball. He mentioned the Conspiracy would be good for me. He said it normally wouldn't be good for house shots but with my higher speed and lower revs said I should be ok.

I'd be really interested to know why your PSO is trying to push the Radical Conspiracy on you. It's a very aggressive ball, particularly for someone whose arsenal contains such non-aggressive equipment. Personally, I wouldn't be too comfortable with his view that it "should be O.K." It might be okay for you, but it will certainly be a very nice payday for him!

[boatman37]

I'd be really interested to know why your PSO is trying to push the Radical Conspiracy on you. It's a very aggressive ball, particularly for someone whose arsenal contains such non-aggressive equipment. Personally, I wouldn't be too comfortable with his view that it "should be O.K." It might be okay for you, but it will certainly be a very nice payday for him!

He wasn't pushing it. I told him I was considering a Radical for my next ball. He had a few on the wall, including the conspiracy. Not sure that he was trying to get a sell as he told me of a fellow bowler that has a brand new one undrilled that he thinks the guy was selling and that I could likely get it cheaper than his off the shelf.
He did say it was aggressive and said he wouldn't be able to use it on a house shot but he is very high rev. He even said it wasn't really a good ball for house shots but said it might work because of my higher speed and lower revs.

He has a few other Radicals there too.

Here is what I have noticed....I really do best when I play straight up the 5 board. I'm most consistent hitting my mark there. With my speed and low revs if I play anything inside the 10 my ball just goes straight. When I run the 5 board my ball doesn't rev at all, just rolls. Goes straight to the pocket and has pretty good power when it hits but pretty much just rolling. If I want to play more inside I will need a more aggressive ball, correct? My Kingpin is OOB and I just hit it with 1000 CTD and inside the 10 it goes straight. When I used that Storm Sync awhile back on the 5 board it had some revs. Very low but still was at least 'skidding'.

I won the plastic Pathogen Spare on here a couple weeks ago but haven't got it drilled yet. I was wondering if it might 'skid' a little better playing the 5 board? Or would it come back to the pocket?

My main objective is finding something 1) I can play in more oil (10 or more inside) and get at least some hook and 2) play the 5 board and get some revs. Seems like I hit the pocket all night long playing the 5 board but very few strikes and I can watch the ball just roll with no slide or skid at all.

He did say the new inserts with the flats up would give me more lift so maybe I can get more revs now and if so I'll have him replace the ones in my Kingpin too.

Is a more aggressive ball usually a better option for a high speed/low rev bowler like me? My sensors read consistently about 17.7 MPH at the pins (most guys in my league are under 16.0 MPH). I did work on my speed a little last week when I practiced and was seeing speeds in the 16's and even a couple in the 15's but I felt really awkward and wasn't getting any carry.

[J Anderson]

It seems to me that a 15# ball coming into the pocket at 17-18 mph from the five board should have plenty of pin carry.

Modern bowling balls become unpredictable when “lift” is used to supply the revs.

High speed low rev usually means you need a ball with a low RG. You may or may not need a more agressive cover stock and orsurface texture to play a more inside line.

[boatman37]

I get good carry but not many strikes. Maybe its just that it isn't as good of a pocket hit as I see but I get pins flying but seem to always leave either a 4, 6, 7, or 10. Just know that more revs should lead to more pin movement.

What is considered low RG? Less than 2.50? My BWG is 2.50 and my Kingpin is 2.483. The Kingpin has a smoother arc than the BWG. The BWG is slightly straighter with a little more backend but it does need polished. Both balls have a couple good sized gouges so sometime in the next couple months I'll be looking to get something newer

[JasonNJ]

I recently switched to being only a Radical guy. All the ball manufacturers make good equipment but Mo Pinel and Phil Cardinale the owner of Radical are very active on their Facebook fan page and I've asked Mo Pinel for layout suggestions. I figure where else can I actually go to the guy who designed the bowling ball and ask him for advice. So for their customer service alone, is why I went Radical.

[boatman37]

I recently switched to being only a Radical guy. All the ball manufacturers make good equipment but Mo Pinel and Phil Cardinale the owner of Radical are very active on their Facebook fan page and I've asked Mo Pinel for layout suggestions. I figure where else can I actually go to the guy who designed the bowling ball and ask him for advice. So for their customer service alone, is why I went Radical.

I would like to chat with Mo on his suggestion but I'm not on Facebook and haven't had any luck through other means. I was thinking the same thing, if I wanted a Radical he would be the one to know which might work best.

[JasonNJ]

I would like to chat with Mo on his suggestion but I'm not on Facebook and haven't had any luck through other means. I was thinking the same thing, if I wanted a Radical he would be the one to know which might work best.


You could try to email Radical, I emailed them about a cracked ball and Phil was the one who responded. Just tell them you aren't on Facebook and give them your bowling specs. PAP, Axis tilt, axis rotation and speed. Just say you want a suggested layout from Mo and I would think they would get it for you.

info@radicalbowling.com

[boatman37]

You could try to email Radical, I emailed them about a cracked ball and Phil was the one who responded. Just tell them you aren't on Facebook and give them your bowling specs. PAP, Axis tilt, axis rotation and speed. Just say you want a suggested layout from Mo and I would think they would get it for you.

info@radicalbowling.com

Well the other problem is I don't have any of that info. My PSO has never checked for it.

[Tony]

I might be off base here but the situation you describe sounds a lot like a buddy of mine has going. He's a big strong guy and tends to rocket the ball down the lane at 18 MPH
One of his teammates who's a high average long time bowler keeps telling him to work on rolling the ball vs throwing the ball. It sounds as if you might have the same situation , lots of speed but very little hand on the ball, the ball is flung down the lane and for the most part it just skids all the way down the lane never slowing enough to react to the lane condition. If this is the situation you can gain much more by learning to roll the ball, than by changing to throwing a new ball.

[JasonNJ]

Well the other problem is I don't have any of that info. My PSO has never checked for it.

Any PSO worth his salt would check it for you if you ask him to. If he won't then find a new PSO.

[boatman37]

I might be off base here but the situation you describe sounds a lot like a buddy of mine has going. He's a big strong guy and tends to rocket the ball down the lane at 18 MPH
One of his teammates who's a high average long time bowler keeps telling him to work on rolling the ball vs throwing the ball. It sounds as if you might have the same situation , lots of speed but very little hand on the ball, the ball is flung down the lane and for the most part it just skids all the way down the lane never slowing enough to react to the lane condition. If this is the situation you can gain much more by learning to roll the ball, than by changing to throwing a new ball.

Sounds fairly accurate. About the only place I can get much hook is playing way outside where it is drier. The ball doesn't slide but more or less just rolls. Tried slowing down but didn't get the carry I did normally but it was also practice and not sure how the lanes were in comparison. Will try it again next league night.

[boatman37]

Any PSO worth his salt would check it for you if you ask him to. If he won't then find a new PSO.

I can check with him and see. I know he has the equipment to do it and watched him check it for the owner

[boatman37]

Well he put new inserts in the Black Widow Gold but in the meantime I bought a new Radical Conspiracy and had him drill it and put the inserts with the flats up. Tried it tonight and love it. Lanes were a little dry but I was getting a ton of revs compared to my usual but that was partially due to the release I was trying out.

[GrumpyCatFace]

Sounds fairly accurate. About the only place I can get much hook is playing way outside where it is drier. The ball doesn't slide but more or less just rolls. Tried slowing down but didn't get the carry I did normally but it was also practice and not sure how the lanes were in comparison. Will try it again next league night.

That’s where I was a few months ago. Try keeping your shoulder back, and cocking your wrist towards yourself a little. Then just drop the ball out onto the lane.

[boatman37]

That’s where I was a few months ago. Try keeping your shoulder back, and cocking your wrist towards yourself a little. Then just drop the ball out onto the lane.

Exactly what I did. At first I used my normal release. This was practice so there were 3 of us (all lefties) and the lanes were dry. We just bowled. Didn't care whose turn it was or what the scores were until the last game. Tried a few things. My normal release is with my hand almost completely behind the ball and go straight forward through the ball. I get too much front roll and not enough side roll, hence my high ball speed. I then turned my hand slightly in towards me. This gave me more side roll and a little less speed and added revs. Next thing I did was rotated my left shoulder back slightly and I was able to stay a little more under the ball on release (or at least thats what it felt like). Adding this helped even more. On top of that my normal line is straight up the 5 board so not much oil. I moved in to the 10 board in more oil and got a bunch more revs then. Looked like a different bowler by the end of the night. I was standing with my left foot on the 13 board (right foot about 18 board?) and threw over the 10 board and out to about the 5-7 board.
We recorded the first couple games with the Hudl Technique app but didn't get any recordings of my modified release so nothing with the higher revs. Hope to get that this Tuesday night. Gonna try to bowl another game after league and see if I can get the PSO to watch or get somebody to record. I know after we are done everybody either heads to the bar or heads home so will have to try to sucker somebody into it...lol

EDIT: I had to move in about 2 boards further to get to the pocket when I was targeting the 2nd arrow. But to add to that, when I normally throw the 2nd arrow my ball didn't go any further outside than the 10 board (if it did it wasn't by much). The other night with this new release I was going out to about the 6 board. So in actuality the ball covered quite a few more boards inside to out.

[GrumpyCatFace]

Yep, I was absolutely amazed at the difference a small change can make. And so were my teammates!

I’m actually playing inside lines now, more often than not. I didn’t think that was even possible for me.

[boatman37]

Yep, I was absolutely amazed at the difference a small change can make. And so were my teammates!

I’m actually playing inside lines now, more often than not. I didn’t think that was even possible for me.

Yep. Thats the main reason I try to always play the first arrow. Anything further into the oil and my ball wouldn't hook much. I think thats why I don't get as many strikes because my ball lost too much energy by the time it hit the pins. Will find out more Tuesday night.

Just checked one of my Hudl videos from when we first started the other night and it calculates to roughly 288 RPM. I'll try to see what it is Tuesday night and see what the difference is with my modified release.

oh...i bowled a 204 that last game with that release. 7 strikes, 3 spares, and 2 opens. i missed the 7 pin and missed the 6 pin on the other. should have made both of those and would have been in the 220's (have a 176 average now)