New ball-Radical Conspiracy

[boatman37]

Just bought a Radical Conspiracy. It's brand new undrilled from a fellow league bowler. Gotta go meet up with him tomorrow night at the bowling alley then drop it off at the pro shop at the same center. Looking for something a little stronger to cope with my higher speed/lower revs

[got_a_300]

Good luck with the new ball maybe it will
help get you a 300 game.:)

[JasonNJ]

Good luck with it. Everyone on the Radical Fan Facebook group has been raving about it but then they rave about most of the Radical equipment or they wouldn't be fans. =P

[boatman37]

Good luck with the new ball maybe it will
help get you a 300 game.:)

would love to get that 300 but won't hold my breath.

and yeah Jason, good point...lol

[bdpeters]

I am not that familiar with Radical but it looks like a nice ball. I wish you the best with it.

[JasonNJ]

I am not that familiar with Radical but it looks like a nice ball. I wish you the best with it.

Here's a video that Radical did comparing the conspiracy with other manufacturer's top bowling balls.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ECUuiYYWmB8

[fordman1]

I liked the video from youtube. What I would like to see is something like that on bowlingball.com instead of the over and over repeat of strikes. Maybe if they did that and weren't biased they would get a real scale for rating balls.

[bdpeters]

agreed, would like to see the ball reaction on some of the less than perfect deliveries.

[boatman37]

hope it works good. looks good on paper. fellow league bowler rolled an 813 with one the other night

[boatman37]

Got the ball and dropped it at the pro shop. no bowling again until the 8th so we will see then

[JasonNJ]

Got the ball and dropped it at the pro shop. no bowling again until the 8th so we will see then


Let me know what you think of it? I love my Radical Intel and Katana so far so there may be room in the bag for a Conspiracy.

[boatman37]

Let me know what you think of it? I love my Radical Intel and Katana so far so there may be room in the bag for a Conspiracy.

Will do. But I will add this, we have a few bowlers in our league that have tried this ball. The PSO who is very hi rev said he didn't care for it. Another this has less rev and slower speed kept leaving corner pins but another that is a little lower rev and higher speed bowled the 813 and loves it. Based on the chatter I hear its good for a speed dominant bowler but that is my unprofessional assessment based on the comments I have heard....lol. Will definitely let you know though.

[RobLV1]

I would really be remiss if I didn't point out that there is no such thing as a "great" bowling ball. A ball is only great if if matches up with both the bowler, the oil pattern, and the characteristics of a particular bowling center. If you don't bowl in the same center as another bowler who has a bowling style that is similar to your own, take ball recommendations with a grain of salt... that's all they are worth!

[JasonNJ]

I agree with Rob, a ball is only as good as the bowler and if it matches up with the lane conditions. Your PSO could probably alter the surface and I would think he would like the ball better. As for the guy leaving corner pins, that to me isn't the ball, the bowler just needs to make a small adjustment. Corner pin leaves are not bad luck or bad carry, its just where the ball is entering the pocket.

[RobLV1]

I agree with Rob, a ball is only as good as the bowler and if it matches up with the lane conditions. Your PSO could probably alter the surface and I would think he would like the ball better. As for the guy leaving corner pins, that to me isn't the ball, the bowler just needs to make a small adjustment. Corner pin leaves are not bad luck or bad carry, its just where the ball is entering the pocket.

In modern bowling, more corner pin leaves are the result of energy loss than entry angle. This is why it is so important to differentiate a ringing ten for a right-hander, from a flat ten. A ringing ten is bad luck. A flat ten requires an adjustment to find more oil to retain energy to knock down all ten pins.

[boatman37]

In modern bowling, more corner pin leaves are the result of energy loss than entry angle. This is why it is so important to differentiate a ringing ten for a right-hander, from a flat ten. A ringing ten is bad luck. A flat ten requires an adjustment to find more oil to retain energy to knock down all ten pins.

Might sound like a very rookie question but what is the difference between a ringing 10 and a flat 10? I know a ringing 10 is when the pin goes off the lane and around behind the 10 pin but I never really paid much attention to what else might happen when you leave the 10. For me this would be the 7 but I don't seem to leave that many 7's (maybe 1 per game-checked my stats and left 44 in 47 games but I struggle to convert them (only converted 15 of those 44) so want to try to make sure I don't leave them). Seems understanding this would help to correct it.

[JasonNJ]

In modern bowling, more corner pin leaves are the result of energy loss than entry angle. This is why it is so important to differentiate a ringing ten for a right-hander, from a flat ten. A ringing ten is bad luck. A flat ten requires an adjustment to find more oil to retain energy to knock down all ten pins.


Rob, may I suggest a book called Bowling Beyond the Basics written by James Freeman and Ron Hatfield. I'm currently reading it now and I've spoken to Ron about this and the book is pretty much trying to look at bowling and debunk a lot of common misconceptions with math and physics. Anyway, Ron said the ringing ten and flat ten is basically the same. It the 3 pin being pushed directly back into the 6 pin causing the 6 pin to miss the 10 pin while going into the channel. The difference between flat and ringing is how hard the 6 pin is impacted. The book states that the pocket is the 17.5 board and if you impact the pins at exactly 17.5 then you strike regardless of entry angle. Anything else like the 18, 18.5, 17, 16.5 board may look like a perfect pocket shot from 60ft away may not cause the proper domino effect to take out the corner pins.


Anyway, its an interesting read.

[J Anderson]

Might sound like a very rookie question but what is the difference between a ringing 10 and a flat 10? I know a ringing 10 is when the pin goes off the lane and around behind the 10 pin but I never really paid much attention to what else might happen when you leave the 10. For me this would be the 7 but I don't seem to leave that many 7's (maybe 1 per game-checked my stats and left 44 in 47 games but I struggle to convert them (only converted 15 of those 44) so want to try to make sure I don't leave them). Seems understanding this would help to correct it.

The flat ten is when the six pin winds up lying down in the gutter. Likewise on a flat seven, the four pin goes in the channel and just lays there. For ringing tens or seven it has been suggested to set up 4” to 6” back on the approach, and take your normal length steps, so you finish 4” to 6” further back from the foul line. This gives the ball a bit more time on the lane so it finishes better. It does seem to work on those times I remember to do it. Of course I’m thrre times more likely to leave a flat ten than a ringer.

The traditional advice on the flat ten was to move very slightly right. For modern balls and lane conditions the advise should be to move left with eyes and feet to keep the ball in the oil so it doesn’t transition too fast.

[J Anderson]

Rob, may I suggest a book called Bowling Beyond the Basics written by James Freeman and Ron Hatfield. I'm currently reading it now and I've spoken to Ron about this and the book is pretty much trying to look at bowling and debunk a lot of common misconceptions with math and physics. Anyway, Ron said the ringing ten and flat ten is basically the same. It the 3 pin being pushed directly back into the 6 pin causing the 6 pin to miss the 10 pin while going into the channel. The difference between flat and ringing is how hard the 6 pin is impacted. The book states that the pocket is the 17.5 board and if you impact the pins at exactly 17.5 then you strike regardless of entry angle. Anything else like the 18, 18.5, 17, 16.5 board may look like a perfect pocket shot from 60ft away may not cause the proper domino effect to take out the corner pins.


Anyway, its an interesting read.

I knew Ron was writing this. Where is it available?

[fordman1]

I leave a lot of solid 10's and a few flat ones. I get so frustrated when I see the young guys getting off hits and messengers. I move around going in and out mostly. I can't use the move back on the approach thing. I usually just take longer steps and end at the same spot. Lately I have been going to weaker and weaker balls. Just move right and go straighter. Tired of weak 10 because coming in behind the head pin. At my age I haven't got the speed needed to carry many light hits either. That's the thing about bowling for every question there is a dozen answers and many of them could be right. Like Rob said every place and every lane is different.

[RobLV1]

Rob, may I suggest a book called Bowling Beyond the Basics written by James Freeman and Ron Hatfield. I'm currently reading it now and I've spoken to Ron about this and the book is pretty much trying to look at bowling and debunk a lot of common misconceptions with math and physics. Anyway, Ron said the ringing ten and flat ten is basically the same. It the 3 pin being pushed directly back into the 6 pin causing the 6 pin to miss the 10 pin while going into the channel. The difference between flat and ringing is how hard the 6 pin is impacted.

Sometimes we just have to resort to logic, so here goes. There are 12" between the rows of pins. Therefore, regardless of the angle, the ball will always make contact with the head pin before striking the three pin. When the ball encounters the head pin, the impact will have some kind of effect on the ball. If the ball hits the head pin with maximum power, it will deflect very little into the three pin, sending it at the correct angle to send the six pin into the ten pin. If, however, the ball has lost some power before encountering the head pin, it will deflect slightly more, hitting the three pin more in the face, throwing it a little more straight back, causing the three to hit the six more on the side, sliding the six into the channel in front of the ten pin. This is why we make different adjustments for ringing tens than we do for weak tens.

[JasonNJ]

I knew Ron was writing this. Where is it available?

It's available on Amazon both in paperback and Kindle version.

[JasonNJ]

Sometimes we just have to resort to logic, so here goes. There are 12" between the rows of pins. Therefore, regardless of the angle, the ball will always make contact with the head pin before striking the three pin. When the ball encounters the head pin, the impact will have some kind of effect on the ball. If the ball hits the head pin with maximum power, it will deflect very little into the three pin, sending it at the correct angle to send the six pin into the ten pin. If, however, the ball has lost some power before encountering the head pin, it will deflect slightly more, hitting the three pin more in the face, throwing it a little more straight back, causing the three to hit the six more on the side, sliding the six into the channel in front of the ten pin. This is why we make different adjustments for ringing tens than we do for weak tens.


Rob I don't disagree with you about balls losing energy and needing oil but the book makes a really compelling argument and as I said it's a really interesting read,

[JoeInPI]

I'd love to check out Ron's book.

I'd also say that the Trident Abyss in the Radical video looked stronger than the Conspiracy. I was set to buy a Conspiracy to go with my arsenal but moght take a little closer look at the Motiv now as an option.

[boatman37]

Picked up the new Conspiracy tonight and really like it. Bowled 2 games with 2 other bowlers and we just bowled. Didn't worry about who was up or scores or anything. Just tried different things. 3rd game we bowled an actual game. I love this new Radical but can't give all the credit to the ball. My normal release is pretty much straight up the back with no funny wrist or elbow stuff. I had tried turning my wrist slightly in to get a little more side roll. I had tried it before but was never real consistent. Worked on that tonight and also tried cupping my wrist a little. What finally got my revs up was cupping my wrist slightly with the wrist turned slightly in and also turning my shoulders a little to the outside. Normally my shoulders are square to the line but I can't cup my wrist very good like that. With my shoulders turned I can cup it. Seems like I was getting twice my normal revs and the lanes were a little dry. Stood with my right toe on about the 17-20 board (I line up my left toe and it was on the 13 board) so wherever my right toe was it was...lol. I threw over the 10 board and it went out to about the 7 board then broke into the pocket at about the 40-45' mark. And it was a pretty hard turn. Speed at the pins was about 16.5 MPH as per our sensors. Very impressed with the revs but like I said, not sure how much was the ball and how much was my release.

I did talk to the PSO after I was done and he hit the ball with a 3000 before he gave it to me to get a baseline. It was definitely shinier than the new one on the shelf he had and he commented that was why he did it. He said they have been coming out of the box lately not quite as advertised so he starts with a baseline. I told him I used the CTD's on my other balls and he asked if I dry sanded. I told him I did and he said thats probably why I have been struggling. He said they should be sanded wet and they were probably burning up on me.

Only kept score my last game and this was it. 7 strikes, 3 spares, and 2 opens

9.42 first ball average

https://i.postimg.cc/rwZPgDpX/IMG_3910.jpg (https://postimg.cc/zyW7GXW0)
https://i.postimg.cc/rmxZ8gNM/IMG_3911.jpg (https://postimg.cc/R6CLd7YD)
https://i.postimg.cc/3NhSWptp/IMG_3912.jpg (https://postimg.cc/Vr7BVSQL)
https://i.postimg.cc/SNvPfXR0/2019-01-02-practice.png (https://postimages.org/)

[boatman37]

Used the Conspiracy last week in league and rolled a 227 in game 1 but the rest of the night the ball just took off with the lanes drying. I struggled to adjust and rolled 155 switched to my Kingpin in game 3 and rolled 156.

Tonight used the Conspiracy all 3 games and did much better. 183, 196 and 220. Made better adjustments tonight and got better as the night went on. Last week when I rolled the 227 if I got near the pocket it was a strike. Tonight in game 1 hit the pocket probably about 8 frames and only got 4 strikes. Adjusted a little in game 2 and 3 and again anything near the pocket was a strike again (most of the time).

So in 6 games with the Conspiracy I rolled a 204 (practice the first day out with it), 227, 155, 183, 196 and 220. 50% of those games are 200 (only have 12 200's this season out of 52 games). So my average with this ball is 197.5. My league average this season is 177. Can't say it is all ball because I did change my release right before that 204 and getting much more rotation on the ball now but still happy with this ball.

[boatman37]

Well just now updating this. Been using the Conspiracy pretty consistently and doing better...until last night. 2 weeks ago used the Conspiracy all 3 games and rolled 162, 179, and 184. Last week rolled 168, 190, and 181 with it. Last night was bad. 186, 151 and 137. The problem was the bowler, not the ball. Before last night I had been averaging about 188 with the Conspiracy but after last night I'm at about 182 with it. My running average this season is 176.

Last night there were 3 Conspiracys on our pair. Myself, the PSO, and his teammate. His teammate rolled a 300 with it a few weeks ago. Last night the PSO used it in the first 2 games then switched after leaving a few 10's. He rolled a 247 and 217 with it (average is 225). His teammate used it all 3 games and rolled 258, 268, and 236 (his average is 216). FWIW the PSO switched to a white Quantam Bias and still left 10's then with a few frames left switched to a Squatch and think he threw all strikes with it.

My revs are much higher now but more likely due to my new release but the ball rolls pretty straight until it hits the end of the pattern then turns hard right (targeting the 7 board at the arrows). If I move in to the 2nd arrow it still turns harder than any of my other balls but not quite as much.

I don't have exact specs on my layout but it is pretty close to layout B on their drill sheet (they call that 45 x 4 1/4 x 35). The pin is just above my ring finger and the MB is about 2" from the center of my thumbhole. I have never had my specs checked so just going off the visual on their drill sheet.

I like this ball better than any I have ever owned, which is a short list. I have owned an old Yellow Dot, a White Dot, a Cobalt Rhino, a Storm Sync, and the ones listed in my signature.

When this ball hits the target the pins scatter. The PSO hit this ball with a brand new 3000 pad before he gave it to me to get a baseline. The one OOB he had on the shelf was quite a bit more dull than mine was but I have a baseline now.

[boatman37]

ADMINS: can you add Conspiracy to the title?

[boatman37]

Another update on the Conspiracy. Really liking this ball. Been using it pretty much every frame since I got it. Targeting the 7 board with my right toe on the 17 board (left here) the ball will pretty much ride straight down the 7 board then take a late right turn right to the pocket. And it hits hard (well my speed is also pretty high....lol). Since I got this ball I'm averaging about 15 pins higher than I had been but this is partially because of me just getting more consistent. But I went out today and practiced with my Conspiracy, Kingpin, and Black Widow Gold and the Conspiracy was much more consistent and more predictable. Most of my strikes today were with this ball.