Really need to work on my spares

[boatman37]

So looking at my results since July 1st. My average is 194.13 over 31 games with a 45% strike %. Not bad. My spare % is only 65% with only 69% single pin %. My stats show if I had made all of my makeable spares (69%) my average would have been 203.68. Oddly my multiple pin % is higher than my single pin at 71%.
It isn't a matter of not knowing how but pretty sure it's more a mental thing. Seems when I am bowling good and striking alot I miss my spares but when I'm not striking I cover my spares. Thinking my multi pin spares are because I put a little more thought into them where the single pins I just go without thinking.

[RobLV1]

I notice that there is no plastic spare ball listed in your arsenal. 99% of the top bowlers in the world use plastic for single pin spares and it's not because it makes them harder! LOL

[vdubtx]

You should put the same thought into single pin spares as you do with multi. Seems like an easy fix and one you came up with yourself. :cool:

[RobLV1]

You should put the same thought into single pin spares as you do with multi. Seems like an easy fix and one you came up with yourself. :cool:

Often the lack of thought that goes into shooting single pin spares is a direct result of thinking being over-shadowed by the emotion (anger) of having left the single pin in the first place.

[boatman37]

Often the lack of thought that goes into shooting single pin spares is a direct result of thinking being over-shadowed by the emotion (anger) of having left the single pin in the first place.

And that's what I was thinking before. Wondering if the frustration of 'expecting' a strike is affecting my spares. Either way I need to fix it.

Rob, I have never used a plastic ball for spares. Maybe I should try one but I use my strike ball for everything except the 7 pin. And even sometimes do use my strike ball. I had been using the Rhino for 7's but if I miss left it slides right into the gutter where my BWG will hold that gutter and stay on the lane. The Rhino is at 3000 polished with Motiv polish on the spinner but had also thought about buying a plastic ball and adding a little surface to the Rhino to be able to use it as a strike ball in drier conditions. But even with a plastic ball I would probably still use my strike ball for all other pins besides the 7. But I would be willing to try it.

Oh, and my PSO doesn't carry Storm. I wouldn't be opposed to a Storm. Not sure if he can order one or not. He is a Brunswick staffer so carries the Brunswick line. Has Brunswick, Radical, Motiv. and DV8 on the shelf. I don't even know of any other pro shops around here.

[RobLV1]

Even if you just use a plastic ball for seven pins, four pins, and four-sevens, it will help you greatly. Your PSO can order anything that you tell him to order. Just because he chooses to display only Brunswick family balls, does not mean that they are the only balls that he can order. Note that I said "chooses" to display. A PSO who is a staffer is not obligated to display only one family of brands... he just makes more money when he sells his line.

[boatman37]

Even if you just use a plastic ball for seven pins, four pins, and four-sevens, it will help you greatly. Your PSO can order anything that you tell him to order. Just because he chooses to display only Brunswick family balls, does not mean that they are the only balls that he can order. Note that I said "chooses" to display. A PSO who is a staffer is not obligated to display only one family of brands... he just makes more money when he sells his line.

Wasn't sure how that worked. Thought maybe he was restricted to that brand. I think he did say one time that he could order whatever I wanted though. Might try a plastic ball next and see how that goes.

[JasonNJ]

Often the lack of thought that goes into shooting single pin spares is a direct result of thinking being over-shadowed by the emotion (anger) of having left the single pin in the first place.

Yes, that is something I've been trying to work on. When I miss a 10 pin, (right handed) it's usually after what I thought was a great shot. I need to start taking my time and focus better.

[JasonNJ]

Wasn't sure how that worked. Thought maybe he was restricted to that brand. I think he did say one time that he could order whatever I wanted though. Might try a plastic ball next and see how that goes.

Throwing plastic is about committing to it and practicing. I know plenty of bowlers who don't throw plastic because they said they weren't good with them and gave up. Plastic for spares in the long run will make you a better bowler especially if you start bowling on tougher sport conditions or even if the lanes are trash because the oil machine is off.

[rdd1952]

A spare ball is the only way to go. I use my spare ball (not plastic but one that has a LOT of games on it so it doesn't hook any more) for everything other than the 1, 2 or 5 pins. Every thing else is a little more speed and straight. And another benefit of using a spare ball is you're cutting the number of times your more expensive strike ball goes down the lane and collects oil by almost 50%. That nearly doubles the life of the ball.

[RobLV1]

A spare ball is the only way to go. I use my spare ball (not plastic but one that has a LOT of games on it so it doesn't hook any more) for everything other than the 1, 2 or 5 pins. Every thing else is a little more speed and straight. And another benefit of using a spare ball is you're cutting the number of times your more expensive strike ball goes down the lane and collects oil by almost 50%. That nearly doubles the life of the ball.

Unless your spare ball (not plastic, just lots of games on it) doesn't have a core, it still hooks. Surface is 75% of ball reaction, but the 25% that's the core cannot be ignored!

[boatman37]

Horrible night. And a spare ball wouldn't have helped. I'm just missing my target. Left one frame then right the next. And my strikes weren't any better tonight. Lanes were tough but I should be able to adapt better than I did.

Bought new CTD pads and didn't realize my old ones were that worn out. Hit the Conspiracy with a 2000 and the Kingpin with a 500. The Conspiracy was coming in way too hard and the Kingpin was rolling out just past 1/2 way. Didn't tough the BWG but even that was coming in too hard. I was about 1.5 MPH slower than usual which didn't help but I'm trying to get my speed down and work around that speed. I started out where I'm most comfortable at about the 6-7 board but was coming in too high with every ball. Moved my feet right and still coming in too hard. Moved my target right and got a little better. I moved further right than I ever remember playing and targeting the 10 board. The ball was coming in nicely but no room for error. A little outside and it wouldn't come back. A little inside and it was brooklyn. When I did hit the pocket just right they were flying, even with the slower speeds but it had to be perfect.

There were 5 lefties on our pair (3 from our team) and all 3 of us were further right than we ever stand. If I had the Conspiracy at 3000 it might have been better. But I had my right toe just right of the middle dot (about the 17 board) and throwing over the 10 board. Normally if I target the 10 board I'm about 4 boards further left. I'm not comfortable swinging it out there but trying to get better with it. My ball speed is usually about 17.5-18 at the sensors on our lanes and tonight I was under 16 on most shots which is about average for our league. My ball usually goes pretty straight until the breakpoint, meaning it doesn't swing out towards the gutter and come back. Tonight it was by maybe 4 or 5 boards. It was coming back nice but it had to hit perfectly.

Spare shooting was horrendous. It isn't the ball choice. It is me. I'm missing my target by several boards either way. Missed the 7 pin twice (0/2). Missed the 3-5-6 (1/2). Missed the 2-8 and the 4-7. Didn't get either pin on either one of those. But I did convert the 1-3-6-7...go figure.

But spare shooting aside, I was just lost tonight. Even if I had picked up all my makeable spares my average still would have only been 179 tonight instead of 171. 41% strike % and only an 8.53 first ball average won't win you many contests either. But my spare shooting has been bad lately and I really do need to figure that out.

As for the team, well last week we were giving up about 150 pins handicap and the same again tonight. We won game 1 by about 17 then game 2 by about 23 but lost game 3 by 96 so went 4-3 tonight. 2-5 last week. Not a good start. Other team was about 100 or so above their average last game while we were about 50 below ours. Games 1 and 2 we were about 30 below our average but the other team was struggling too.

Current league average after 6 games: 185.00

https://i.postimg.cc/xd2tpHFS/2019-09-03.png (https://postimages.org/)

[rdd1952]

But spare shooting aside, I was just lost tonight. Even if I had picked up all my makeable spares my average still would have only been 179 tonight instead of 171.

https://i.postimg.cc/xd2tpHFS/2019-09-03.png (https://postimages.org/)

Actually, if you had converted the two 7 pins, the 3-5-6 and the 4-7, that would have been 47 more pins and a 561 set/187 average.

[boatman37]

Actually, if you had converted the two 7 pins, the 3-5-6 and the 4-7, that would have been 47 more pins and a 561 set/187 average.

Could be. I didn't calculate it. Just what my phone app says I would have had if I had made my makeable spares. Also missed the 2-8 there in game 1. I usually average about 50% strikes so that was down too. I think the most frustrating part was no matter what I did it didn't work. Mostly because of me and partially because of lane conditions.

[vdubtx]

Bought new CTD pads and didn't realize my old ones were that worn out. Hit the Conspiracy with a 2000 and the Kingpin with a 500. The Conspiracy was coming in way too hard and the Kingpin was rolling out just past 1/2 way. Didn't tough the BWG but even that was coming in too hard.

Taking the Kingpin to 500 on a house shot I certainly would not advise. The 500 grit is why the ball rolled out as it used all of it's energy early in the lane.

Not sure where you play on the lane, but have you tried moving inside into the oil more?

[RobLV1]

You had a horrible night because you bowled on conditions that right-handers bowl on every week! With five lefties on your pair, you didn't have the area that you are used to for your strike shots or your spare shots. Vdub is right... learn to move right and find some oil. When your ball doesn't hook, it's not because you are in too much oil, it's because you are in too much dry with too much surface on your low RG ball.

[boatman37]

i'm sure 5 lefties didn't help but we all struggled from the first frame and it probably only got worse...lol. i had used a 500 on the Kingpin before and it did ok but i think it was because it was an old worn out 500 and this one was brand new. lesson learned there...lol. i only threw the Kingpin a couple of times and could see it stop skidding and start rolling. knew pretty quickly that wasn't going to work. Conspiracy was similar at 2000 but when i went back to using it i had moved inside a little more to get the oil. i started game 1 with the Kingpin for a couple of frames then went to the Conspiracy till the end of the game then went to the BWG for game 2. Game 3 started with the BWG outside then switched to the Conspiracy more inside. i wasn't comfortable with the angle i was at inside. i was standing right toe on about 17 on the right side (pretty much in the center) and targeting the 10 at the arrows. i rarely ever have to swing it out and never that far out. probably more a lack of confidence than anything. in hindsight i do wish i have moved further right to see what would have happened but in the end i was pretty close to my average and our games were close until the end so was afraid to get too far from my comfort zone. but i really do need to get used to these types of moves

vdub...i usually start out each night straight up the 5-7 board Norm Duke style. My ball reaction, RPM, everything is very similar to Norm (except i'm a lefty). most of the time i can stay there all night as i'm the only one out there on the left side. even last night i was the only one that far out but even in warmups in wasn't working. i do struggle more with accuracy when inside for some reason. when i'm out near the first arrow my accuracy is definitely better. not sure why. i also think frustration set in last night too and i just tuned out after awhile.

i did move in a little. i was throwing over the 10-11 board and the ball rolled nice but was inconsistent if i wasn't perfect. which in my mind means it wasn't the best line? seems like when i find the right line i have a couple boards of error to play with. couldn't find that last night. i also think my slower speed crewed me up last night. i have purposely been trying to slow down as i'm one of the fastest in the league. i'm thinking last night wasn't the best night to throw slower?

[boatman37]

oh boy. I dunno what's going on here. I had been averaging about 195 the last few weeks of summer league then pre-bowled week 1 in the fall league with a 596. Last week was 514 and tonight 493. Only had 9 strikes all night. Usually have about 15 or so. Last week my balls were coming in way too hard. Tonight they wouldn't come in at all. I'm sure some was psychological since in warm-ups my slide shoe was sticking. I reluctantly put the S10 on and almost fell on my first ball so went back to the S8 and dealt with it. Re-sanded the Conspiracy today on the spinner with a worn 2000 CTD. Last week I used a new 2000 and it was too much. So the worn 2000 is where it has been all summer (yeah I know if it is worn you lose consistency from one sanding to the next). Haven't touched the BWG (still at 3000). The Kingpin is still at 500 but that ball rarely comes out of my bag. So started with the Conspiracy and couldn't get back to the pocket. Moved in to the 10 board and got the pocket but kept leaving corner pins. Went back out to the 6-7 board and still light. Moved my feet left and the ball still wouldn't come in. Switched to the BWG and same thing. Tried the Kingpin for a frame or 2 at the 10 board. Wasn't able to be consistent in there. Went back to the Conspiracy late in game 3. The only bright spot was I made a move for my 7 pins and was 3/4 tonight on those. I missed the last one but I was so frustrated at that point that I didn't care. We had already lost the game so it didn't matter what I did.

So after we were done I heard a few guys talking about how dry the lanes were and ended up talking to the one in the parking lot. He said he ended last year at 226 and after 3 weeks still doesn't have a 600. He said tonight he had to stand at the left gutter and pitch it across the lane. Said they were the driest he has ever seen. So my balls didn't look or act like they were rolling out but it made me wonder. On the few shots I did get the pocket the ball dropped off just a little left of the center. Maybe about the 15-17 board? So didn't seem like it was losing much energy. I just couldn't get to the pocket. And I threw more too far out tonight than I did too far in which is odd for me. Usually if I miss it's cause I tugged it but tonight there were several times I swung it out too far and it wouldn't come back. Usually they still come back close to the pocket if I miss outside. The one time with the Conspiracy I got to about the 3-4 board and took out the 4-7. I think it knicked the 2 on the way through but just barely.

I dunno. Just don't understand how I can drop 30 pins in just a couple of weeks.

As for the 7 pin, I had been standing with my right toe on about the 7 board and throwing over the 23 board at the arrows. Tonight I went a little straighter standing right toe on the 10 board and throwing over the 25 board. Doesn't sound like much but I'm not swinging the ball so far out to get it that far out there. Just feels more comfortable. Counting warm-ups I was 4/5 on 7 pins tonight.

My wrist/hand/forearm are sore too. After last week and this week. Last week I didn't tuck my pinky but tonight I did. My webbing between my thumb and pointer finger is sore. Forearm muscles are a little sore and wrist felt a little sore a few times. My next ball I will have him re-fit me but not sure that is the problem. It seems like I have been getting a few more revs lately so maybe I'm doing something a little different. It does feel like I'm kind of flicking my wrist a little at the release but not sure. Seems like I'm getting more lift with my fingers as I'm exiting the ball.

https://i.postimg.cc/BvXZV77d/2019-09-10.png (https://postimages.org/)

[J Anderson]

I’ve had the same thing happen with the slide soles. Normally the #8 sole is fine. When #8 is sticking and I try #10, it’s too slippery. Definitely need to invest in a #9 or figure out how to chop up an 8 and a 10 to get my own hybrid sole.

To the average bowler, a ball that hits the dry too early looks like it’s skidding too far like the lane is flooded gutter to gutter.

I usually take what other people are saying about the lane condition with a grain of salt. Except for a few really good bowlers, most of the time when someone says the lanes are really dry or really wet, it means that their favorite line isn’t playing the way they want it to. Odds are 50-50 as to whether they have the right reason.

The fact you have some physical pain to go with the bruised ego of two lousy series in a row would indicate that you are doing something different with your delivery.

[JasonNJ]

I’ve had the same thing happen with the slide soles. Normally the #8 sole is fine. When #8 is sticking and I try #10, it’s too slippery. Definitely need to invest in a #9 or figure out how to chop up an 8 and a 10 to get my own hybrid sole.

To the average bowler, a ball that hits the dry too early looks like it’s skidding too far like the lane is flooded gutter to gutter.

I usually take what other people are saying about the lane condition with a grain of salt. Except for a few really good bowlers, most of the time when someone says the lanes are really dry or really wet, it means that their favorite line isn’t playing the way they want it to. Odds are 50-50 as to whether they have the right reason.

The fact you have some physical pain to go with the bruised ego of two lousy series in a row would indicate that you are doing something different with your delivery.


Try these leather soles. I love them and use them in place of my #8 soles.

https://www.bowlingball.com/products/accessories/bowlingball.com/9564/original-linds-buck-skin-leather-replacement-slide-sole.html


Also I agree, if you are in physical pain and it's something new, you may be doing something different or muscling the ball now instead of having a relaxed swing.

[boatman37]

Couldn't get strikes or cover spares tonight. Don't know what the problem is and tired of trying to figure it out. Pretty sure my issue is me but just odd that 2 of my teammates are 25 below their averages and I'm about 15-20 below mine.

One ball hits light and the next goes through the nose. Only reason I say it's me is cause I'm missing spares like crazy too. Missing the 5 pin??? Dunno. Just frustrated with it and it isn't fun. We lost 2/3 tonight to the last place team. They had only won 2 games all year and they beat us twice tonight. And we are usually one of the top teams.

[RobLV1]

Couldn't get strikes or cover spares tonight. Don't know what the problem is and tired of trying to figure it out. Pretty sure my issue is me but just odd that 2 of my teammates are 25 below their averages and I'm about 15-20 below mine.

Yet another example of bowlers refusing to believe that they are not in control of their own destiny; they are at the mercy of the lanes. If your average is down 15-20 pins and two of your teammates are down 25, the problem is obviously the lanes. For whatever reason, the shot has changed. Deal with trying to figure out the shot and stop thinking that you can overpower what the lanes are giving you; you can't!

[J Anderson]

Couldn't get strikes or cover spares tonight. Don't know what the problem is and tired of trying to figure it out. Pretty sure my issue is me but just odd that 2 of my teammates are 25 below their averages and I'm about 15-20 below mine.

One ball hits light and the next goes through the nose. Only reason I say it's me is cause I'm missing spares like crazy too. Missing the 5 pin??? Dunno. Just frustrated with it and it isn't fun. We lost 2/3 tonight to the last place team. They had only won 2 games all year and they beat us twice tonight. And we are usually one of the top teams.


Yet another example of bowlers refusing to believe that they are not in control of their own destiny; they are at the mercy of the lanes. If your average is down 15-20 pins and two of your teammates are down 25, the problem is obviously the lanes. For whatever reason, the shot has changed. Deal with trying to figure out the shot and stop thinking that you can overpower what the lanes are giving you; you can't!

The title of the thread says it all. I’m guessing that your spare system is based on your strike shot except for the seven pin. If, as Rob says, the shot has changed, you are no longer lined up for the pocket, and as an added bonus, the ball isn’t going to go where you intend it to on the spare attempts.
Forget about the symmetric/ asymmetric b.s. and get a real spare ball and spend a few practice sessions developing a spare system that works for you no matter what condition the lanes are in.

[MajorPhoenix]

The title of the thread says it all. I’m guessing that your spare system is based on your strike shot except for the seven pin. If, as Rob says, the shot has changed, you are no longer lined up for the pocket, and as an added bonus, the ball isn’t going to go where you intend it to on the spare attempts.
Forget about the symmetric/ asymmetric b.s. and get a real spare ball and spend a few practice sessions developing a spare system that works for you no matter what condition the lanes are in.

A lot of people like to push that they don't need a spare ball. I've had to push it multiple times that everyone needs a pancake ball. It's going go pretty much exactly where you throw it 9.9/10 times. Eliminate the possibility of movement by just getting that cheap WD or Maxim.

[RobLV1]

The concept that bowlers do not need a spare ball because they can use their strike ball and flatten out their hand is leftover from the days when strike balls didn't have cores. Today, balls have cores and hook by themselves, rendering that theory useless. Now, before anyone chimes in that they pick up most of their corner pins with their strike ball, please remember that I'm not saying that you can never do it. I'm just saying that your percentage will go way up using a pancake plastic ball.

[boatman37]

I completely understand the plastic ball thing but when I just can't hit my target I'm not sure a plastic ball will help...lol. I threw my Rhino last night as a strike ball just to see what it would do and it maybe moved 2-3 boards max. At the rate I'm missing spares I'm not sure 2-3 boards will make a big difference? Last night I had 11 strikes in 3 games. The week before I had 9. A spare ball might help on a couple of shots a night but I seem to be all over the place lately.

I mentioned to my PSO last night about a new ball. He said the same thing about having 3 assym balls that are all pretty aggressive and that if anything he would recommend a symmetric ball for my next one. I also mentioned a spare ball and he wasn't that excited about that. I mentioned the Squatch solid or pearl and he said both of those will go pretty straight for me. Wasn't a deep discussion since it was after league and he was sitting in the bar by then. Might swing by and talk to him more tonight.

[boatman37]

So thought about it a little and will try to break it down into something better than just 'i suck'...lol.

The other day I mentioned my arm, wrist, and fingers had been sore. Last night I tried to be mindful of not 'lifting' up the back of the ball (or come around the ball). I did catch myself a couple of times and could feel the difference. Not from pain but felt the extra pressure on my fingertips. We also bowled on the end pair which everyone complains about but I had always bowled good there until last night. Also, I had been working on keeping my speed down. It seems I bowl best when the sensors read about 16.5ish. Usually I am higher 17's, or at a minimum low 17's. Last week I had a few that were in the 15's and even one in the 14's. Last night my first game (189) I was about mid 16's. When I started to struggle I purposely went back to my higher speeds and bowled 142 and 147. I did this after nothing else worked. I used my Conspiracy on about 95% of my shots last night. Tried the BWG a few shots but it wouldn't come back to the pocket (this was at the start of the night when my speeds were down). I even tried the Rhino a couple of time but it went straight to the 4 pin (barely clipped the 2). Didn't take the Kingpin out of the bag at all.

On to spare shooting. I use my strike ball for everything but the 7 (Rhino for that). I'm a low rev, high speed bowler so if I get near the center my ball goes almost straight. Last night I was 1/1 on 7 pins and last week 3/4 on 7's. Prior to that I was really bad but made a change last week and lessened my angle cross alley. For the4 pin I use my strike ball and move about 2 boards left of where I stand for 7's. I rarely leave 8's but if I do I move 3 boards right of my strike spot. 5 pin I move 1 board right. 6 pin is 3-4 boards left. 9 pin 1-2 boards left. 10 pin 5 boards left. The right side is just as tricky for me cause of where I target. I stand with my left foot in line with the gutter and target the 6-7 board at the arrows. This is mentally hard to do and I miss alot of those because of this. I also think I try too hard to 'guide' my spare shots.

[boatman37]

Stopped and talked to the PSO tonight and ordered a Squatch pearl. Should have it ready for next week. He did say Radical was coming out with a couple new balls in October. One will be the Conspiracy Theory. He didn't have much info on it but thought that might be a good one for me to add later to replace the BWG. But he thought the Squatch pearl would be good for me as a weaker ball and he definitely thought I needed a symmetrical ball in my bag. Probably pull the Kingpin from the bag now but will see.

If I struggle again next week I'm going to try some off the wall lines. I have tried all 4 of my balls and played from the 5 board to the 10 board. I have never played anywhere other than there but will try 3rd arrow if I need to. I can say with 100% certainty that any ball I throw there will go straight. I have tried it before just to try it and my strongest ball moved about 2-3 boards and that was it but if that's what it takes. If I try going over the middle arrow out to the 5 or 10 board with any ball it usually goes straight to the 7 pin. But I'll start trying anything at this point.I think I have done everything but throw it between my legs....lol

[Phonetek]

Seems you are willing to try anything except the one thing you need to do that will help the most which has been said multiple times. Get a plastic spare ball man! Lol

Your pso wasnt excited about it when you mentioned it probably because plastic is cheap and he'll make less money than selling you a ball with a core which you sound willing to buy. Either that or you're not telling him the same thing you're saying in this post.

It seems the fix is pretty simple, get a plastic ball and do some vigorous practice trying to constantly bang on your target. Since you claim to keep missing by several boards I'd take a look at your mechanics too. Or your other choice, get yet another non plastic and continue with the same problems.

Sorry to be blunt my friend but remember that nobody here makes a penny off of giving advice. It seems quite unanimous what you're next step should be. You're pso on the other hand will and continue to sell you as many balls as you're willing to buy. How often at your boat repair shop has the guy tried to talk you out of buying something you wanted?

It's your money, spend it as you wish but if another new core ball don't work then don't be shocked. By the way, you do not suck, you are just trying the same thing over and over expecting a different result.

[boatman37]

lol. no problems. and isn't doing the same thing over and over again the definition of insanity? wouldn't be the first time i was accused of that :)

but yeah. our PSO doesn't seem that motivated by $$$. he has a good paying full time job and i think he just does this so he gets his stuff at discount. he even jokingly said to me the other night that i need a new ball cause its the reason i'm bowling bad. then gave me that sarcastic grin. he has never pushed a new ball on me. i have mentioned a new ball several times and his response is 'you know where i am when you are ready'. but i haven't had any 'serious' talks with him about it. he bowls the same nights i do so i only get to talk to him for a few minutes before we start. but what he said about plastic is that it's a different feel and will take some practice for me to get used to and since my Rhino goes pretty straight already he didn't think i would see a huge gain from it at least not right away. he did say that in most cases he agrees the plastic is better. but i think my next ball will be a plastic one after this Squatch. just wondering if my balls are just used up. they both have at least 100 games on them and neither are behaving the way they used to. just trying to eliminate that variable and a few have said that i do need a symmetrical ball.

but yeah, i think my biggest issue right now is mechanics. something changed since a month ago. i finished summer league at 188 and the last 6 weeks of it i averaged 196 (215.75, 200.50, 180.00, 218.25, 178.50, and 184.25). the very next week in the fall league i have had 171.33, 164.33, and 159.33. so something definitely changed

[RobLV1]

He didn't have much info on it but thought that might be a good one for me to add later to replace the BWG.

Please tell me that I'm not the only one who sees this as a blatant attempt to sell a future release without, admittedly, having much info on it. Find yourself a PSO who cares about your bowling more than his bottom line!

[JerseyJim]

I've been using the Triax spare system. I'll use a plastic ball 99% of the time to convert spares. It works pretty well for me. http://wiki.bowlingchat.net/wiki/images/f/f2/Triax_Spare_System.pdf

[bowl1820]

just wondering if my balls are just used up. they both have at least 100 games on them and neither are behaving the way they used to.

Something to try here would be a little probably long over do maintenance on them. Having them de-oiled and resurfaced can breathe new life into a ball.

Somethings to note also is, That a new ball (or any ball for that matter) doesn't fix problems with a players physical game (Now a having a grip fixed can help with some problems). At best it would just be a bandage, at worst it could make things worse.

A plastic ball though is always a good investment, Not just for shooting spares. There are times when you might need that ball to keep yourself in the game. The lanes burned up or your totally lost. You can pick up the plastic, go back to the bare basics and grind it out.

And if your throwing your Rhino "pretty straight" now, the only feel difference you have is the plastic is even straighter.

[boatman37]

When I said he didn't have much info what he said before that was that he thought it would be an asymm pearl but he was in the middle of league bowling when he told me this and didn't have the info in front of him and was going off memory. I was the first to mention that it sounded similar to the BWG and he thought so too.

I did mention de-oiling to him and he said they didn't have one but was hoping to get one soon. I don't even know of any other pro shops around.

[bowl1820]

I did mention de-oiling to him and he said they didn't have one but was hoping to get one soon. I don't even know of any other pro shops around.

If there are no shops around with a de-oiler you can do it yourself there are several DIY ways. some are:

The Hot water & dawn method, which is basically soaking the ball in hot warm with a little dawn soap. Some put the ball in a dishwasher (Just don't use the dish dryer!).

A moded food dehydrator, which is what I have.

Or just take a cardboard box, sit the ball in it. cut a hole in the side and stick a hairdryer in the hole set on low and let the hot air blow around the ball (Just don't blow the air directly on the ball) and wipe it every now and then .

[boatman37]

I could do that. A former teammate told me he just left his in the car on a hot day...lol.

Been watching some spare shooting videos and getting a little confidence back. Started realizing I really didn't have a system. Started thinking for a 3 pin sometimes I move 2 boards and sometimes 3 boards. 4 pin I sometimes went cross alley and sometimes just moved my feet right about 3 boards. No real consistency. In my former bowling life I remember telling somebody I never had to think about spares. It was all memorization and didn't have to think about where to stand. My spare shooting use to be very good. My strike shooting wasn't as good though. Going to start using the Rhino for all of my spares until I get a plastic ball. I have it at 3000 now. I'll hit it with a 4000 and maybe polish.

[boatman37]

So grabbed a cardboard box that my spinner came in and cut a hole in the end. Put a cutting board style piece of plastic in there as a diverter so the heat isn't blowing directly on the ball and put the Kingpin in there with the heat gun in the hole on low. Checked it after about 2 minutes and the ball was soaked. Checked it a few more times and every time it is soaked. Keep wiping it off each time. So about how long should I leave it in there? The ball is very warm but not too hot to touch it.

[bowl1820]

So grabbed a cardboard box that my spinner came in and cut a hole in the end. Put a cutting board style piece of plastic in there as a diverter so the heat isn't blowing directly on the ball and put the Kingpin in there with the heat gun in the hole on low. Checked it after about 2 minutes and the ball was soaked. Checked it a few more times and every time it is soaked. Keep wiping it off each time. So about how long should I leave it in there? The ball is very warm but not too hot to touch it.

A HEAT GUN!!!!!!!!!!!!! NO NO NO NO NO!!!!! Even on low that is too hot, I said a hair dryer!!!

As for how long you do it, it would be until the oil wasnt coming out.

[boatman37]

I stuck a thermometer in there and it was around 140-150. I had to open the top of the box to keep the temps down. From what i read online 130-140 is about where you want. My next step is to cut a hole in the side of the box to keep it cooler

[bowl1820]

I stuck a thermometer in there and it was around 140-150. I had to open the top of the box to keep the temps down. From what i read online 130-140 is about where you want. My next step is to cut a hole in the side of the box to keep it cooler

Yes 150 degrees in most articles is considered the highest temp. and not to go over it. With around 125-130 being a good range.

A vent at the top of the box would be a good idea, that way as the hot air comes in at the bottom (assuming you placed the heat source at the bottom side of the box) It can spiral up and around the ball and out through the vent. If you leave a flap at the vent, you could kind of regulate the temp. (like a bbq vent).

[boatman37]

I will try to get a pic tomorrow but it is my ball spinner box so it is a bigger box. The heat gun is inserted into one end then I have a plastic board angled with only about a 2" gap between the end of it and the side of the box and the ball is on the other side of that plastic 'diverter'. So no heat blows directly on the ball. And the heat gun hole is at floor level. With the box closed it got over 160* so I opened 3 of the 4 flaps and it stayed in the 140's. Still need a hole in the side though to get it a little cooler. I did the Kingpin and the BWG. The Kingpin had alot more oil come out and it was coming out even when I stopped. The BWG wasn't quite as bad.

[RobLV1]

It's funny how things sometimes come together. Today I went out to play golf and was partner up with another single. He could hit the ball a long, long way, but he had no idea how to play the game. You started this thread and called it, "Really need to work on my spares." The thread has now degenerated into a discussion of how you can make your bowling balls stronger. You and my golfing partner have tons in common. A spare in bowling is like learning to accept one bad shot in golf without turning it into a quadruple bogey. You need a system for spare shooting that you can depend on all the time.

About 20 years ago I used to bowl in a scratch doubles league with a lady who was a very good bowler. At one point she commented that she was really impressed with my ability to convert the 2-8 double wood spare. I told her that it wasn't surprising as I got a lot of practice at it. I came up with a system where I move my feet five boards to the right and hit my strike target. Yesterday I was bowling in a high average league, and one of the spectators commented at how good I am at converting the 2-8, double wood spare. I told her that it's because I get so much practice at it. Oh, by the way, I still move my feet five boards to the right and hit my strike target, wherever I happen to be playing on the lane. That's my system for converting that spare, and it hasn't changed in over 20 years... why are you so worried about how to get more power by baking your balls?!?

[boatman37]

Not baking them for making them stronger but trying to get them more consistent. Not sure if the oil affects consistency or not but at this point I'm trying about anything. I was much more consistent when they were newer. Can't say if that is me or the balls but all 3 of my strike balls are over 100 games or very close.

I think as far as my spares I relied too much on past experience where I just went up and threw the ball without thinking about it. I never had to think about my spares before cause I had a system. That system hasn't been working, probably because I don't have it memorized and maybe because of the changes in lanes and balls since then.

I watched a bunch of videos yesterday and one that surprised me was about single pin spares. You basically have 1/2 a lane of miss room to convert a single pin spare (except the 7 and 10). As long as you 'touch' the pin it is good. Being a bowling ball is 8.5" and the pin is 4.75" that means you have 17" for the ball (can be on either side of the pin) and 4.75" for the pin, meaning you have over a 21" area to make that pin. Hard to believe anybody can miss a single pin spare after seeing that. But yeah, going to start working on a system for spares and stick with it. Might try to get down there next Friday for a few hours of practice.

[boatman37]

Here is my ball 'oven'...lol. This is my Rhino. It has not been baked but it has a 5000 grit pad with polish on it so it very shiny. The heat gun is at the top of the pic and you can see the thermometer sticking through the lid at the bottom. That flap stays closed and the others stay open but I still need to cut a 'vent' hole in it somewhere to control temps. Took about 10 minutes to make it. The diverter piece is that nylon type cutting board material. There is about a 1" gap between the end of that and the side of the box for the heat to get through. I check the ball every 2-3 minutes and wipe it off each time.
https://i.postimg.cc/W45b04XZ/IMG-4645.jpg (https://postimg.cc/VSb88zys)

[RobLV1]

Sorry, but baking your bowling balls will not make them more consistent, it will, however, make them stronger... more like they were when they were new. The bad news is that making them more reactive will also make them more over-reactive when they are thrown inconsistently.

[boatman37]

Well I only did 2. One I don't use at all so no big deal. The other was the BWG which I do use alot but last week none would hook. Will see this week.

[J Anderson]

I watched a bunch of videos yesterday and one that surprised me was about single pin spares. You basically have 1/2 a lane of miss room to convert a single pin spare (except the 7 and 10). As long as you 'touch' the pin it is good. Being a bowling ball is 8.5" and the pin is 4.75" that means you have 17" for the ball (can be on either side of the pin) and 4.75" for the pin, meaning you have over a 21" area to make that pin. Hard to believe anybody can miss a single pin spare after seeing that. But yeah, going to start working on a system for spares and stick with it. Might try to get down there next Friday for a few hours of practice.

Sorry, I don’t care what expert said that there is a 21” area to make a single pin, you really have about 13”. If the center of your ball passes 10.5” from the center of the pin you will miss by about 4”. Still, 13” is more than a quarter of the width of the lane.

[bowl1820]

Sorry, I don’t care what expert said that there is a 21” area to make a single pin, you really have about 13”. If the center of your ball passes 10.5” from the center of the pin you will miss by about 4”. Still, 13” is more than a quarter of the width of the lane.

The 21" is right also it's just a description of the "window/area" the whole ball has to pass through in order to hit a single pin. Based on the diameter of the ball and pin


heres both versions
https://i.postimg.cc/wB85N2gf/single-pin-spare-window.jpg

However both of these areas shrink the closer the pin is to a gutter though as seen here.

https://i.postimg.cc/WzGhqB6S/pin-gutter.jpg

[boatman37]

Went back and watched some of my videos from when I first came back about 20 months ago. I struggled being off balance and hopping at the line. I noticed in those videos my ball was about 12" from my ankle at the release, which tells me I am either bent over sideways or really reaching at the shoulder to get the ball out there. Not sure if I am still doing it but will have a teammate watch tonight to see. My balance has been much better lately but I attributed that to the fact that I am not muscling the ball as much. But hard to say for sure. Need more recent video to see if it has changed.

[boatman37]

Did much better tonight. Got the new Squatch pearl. Had as many strikes tonight as I had the last 2 weeks. Spares were much better but still need work on those. Used the Squatch all 3 games. Had to adjust a little near the end of game 1 as I started coming in high. Didn't have to adjust much in game2 but game 3 started getting harder to hit the pocket. Had been targeting the 9-10 board at the arrows until then. Game 3 I moved out to the 5-6 board and it came right back to the pocket again. Overall very happy with the ball. PSO commented how dry the lanes have been and how he has had to hit all of his with 4000 but he is a high rev bowler. He had a 715ish tonight using the Zing.
My plan was to use the Rhino for all spares but didn't. I did use it more than I had been. Squatch was smooth and continuous.

Bowled one of the top average teams. They are way down this year but last year they were all about 210-225. This year they are 199-210. The first 2 games we were 70 over our average but they were 120 over theirs. Game 3 we were barely over our average but they struggled so we got that game. We had been struggling as a team all year so it was frustrating to finally bowl good and get beat again.

Us:
540, 527, 640, 597, 598

Them:
633, 683, 692, 727, 515

They were spotting us 82 pins per game.

So might go down Friday and spend a few games only practicing spares then maybe 1 game doing a 1 step drill.

I still had a few opens tonight that I should have covered but much better than I had been lately.

Tonight I had a 202, 192, 203. Had 2 opens in the first 2 games then 1 in the last game.

All-in-all it was progress. Normally I would be thrilled with a 597 but after the last few weeks I know I need to keep improving and my spare shooting is what will help the most.

After tonight I'm wondering if the balls were more of the problem than I thought they were? Didn't do much different tonight but I was in the pocket most of my shots and didn't need to hit a 1/2" target.

Oh...had 5 lefties again

https://i.postimg.cc/zXf9jP6L/2019-09-24.png (https://postimages.org/)

[boatman37]

Went out today and practiced a little. 4 games total. First 2 were just practicing corner pins with the occasional 8 and 9 pin. Did pretty good and started getting fairly consistent. Used the 15 board (at the arrows) for every shot and just adjusted my feet. Had about a 12 board adjustment from 7 pin to 10 pin. Game 3 tried a few one step drills but it felt really awkward like I was going to fall on my face...lol. Tried that a few times then tried a new first ball approach. Stood with right toe on 19 and targeted the 7 board at the arrows. I did try others going more cross alley but the ball wouldn't come back. I was hitting the pocket from the 10 and 15 boards too but the 15 board isn't a line I would play unless I had to. It's very straight on for me, almost a straight ball. If I try to get it outside from the 15 it stays out there. Not enough revs to bring it back. Maybe more surface but I was using the Squatch and the BWG (both pearls). So in the end I had my right toe on 19 and targeting the 7. My left toe was on 15 and I had my right foot forward at the start (usually I stand square). With my right foot forward my hips and shoulders were cocked to the outside. Not 100% certain I was walking in a straight line but I was setting the ball down around the 9 board maybe. I would get out to about the 7 then right back to the pocket. I normally stand right toe on 15 and target the 7. With this I get a more direct line. Today standing more right my speed was slower and it was letting the ball come back. Nice pin action and good carry. By the 4th game my back was sore so I stopped. I started missing those spares I had been making earlier though. Didn't care about scores but had about a 56, 125, 190 and 145. I was more concerned with consistency and making spares. We will see how Tuesday goes.

[boatman37]

Man. Went from good to bad to awful and back to good all in one night. Warmups I was on fire. Every strike ball was a pocket strike. Threw one at the 7 pin and perfect. Even converted the spare off of it. Game 1 could not get carry. Also hit light the first few frames. Twice left the 1-3-6-7 and missed them both. Game 2 nothing worked. Tried 10 board, 6-7 board, and even the 15 board. Tried the Squatch and the BWG. When I did hit the pocket left a 7-10, a 4-6-7-10, and a few 7's. Just couldn't get anything to work. Game 3 used the Squatch and played out around the 6-7 board with the pinky tucked. Bingo! Only flaw in game 3 was a 4-6-7-10 pocket leave (maybe slightly high but not much). Used my spare ball (Rhino) and aimed at the 7. Got the 4, 7, and 10. The 10 bounced off the side wall and touched the 6 but it didn't fall. I also converted the 6-8-10 in game 2. Very hard for a lefty.
7 pins were good tonight. Left more than I usually do but covered all but 1. And counting the 7-10 and the 4-6-7-10 I was 6/7 on 7 pins. If you take out game 2 I was very good on my spare shooting. 9 opens on the night and 6 of those were in game 2.

We had 5 Squatches on our pair tonight (1 was a solid). 4 lefties tonight too. Just wish I wouldn't have struggled so bad in game 2.

One thing to add...well 2 things. When I went to practice last week I tried keeping my left foot slightly back which turned my hips and shoulders out but it worked well that day. Not sure if that was my problem tonight but game 3 I went back to my old stance. Also, noticed a few times tonight and noticed it the last few weeks something I get more lift up the back of the ball. Not sure if I'm getting more under it or just lifting harder but I can feel the difference. Game 3 I tried hard not to do that so I could be consistent

https://i.postimg.cc/Gtsmzr7j/2019-10-01.png (https://postimages.org/)

[boatman37]

So going to focus on my mental game and a 600 is my goal tonight. Calling my shot here. Will update later to see how much I beat it by.

[boatman37]

BOOM! 610!
So after 55 weeks of bowling in the fall league and carrying a 180 average I only have 4 600's. And summer league is 4 games series and in 23 weeks I have 3 800's. Tells me I'm pretty consistent?
So anyway, we won 2/3 tonight. Talked to a a few guys tonight saying everyone is struggling and is about 10 pins lower than they usually are. Talked to one at the end of the night that is a 225 bowler that is averaging 205 this year and said he might quit. Said they approaches are so sticky he can't get a good release. He had an S9 on and said the 10 is too slick. Our highest average bowler so far this year is 218. Last year we had about 5 guys over 220. Anyway, this guy said he polished his Squatch pearl cause the lanes have been so dry. Said he bowled a 771 the other night with it and tonight had a 734. Said it works perfect now.

So on to my game. Said I was going in with a positive attitude and would not get down. Started with the Squatch and all was going well. Kept my slide foot slightly ahead at my start to open my hips and shoulders. Did that all night. Started targeting the 8-10 board and worked well. Only open in game 1 was a missed 7. Left the pinky untucked until the end of game 1. Game 2 started with a 5 bagger then the transition hit. Struggled there but didn't give up. Started moving inside but couldn't get any consistency. Kept missing either light or heavy. Threw about 3 or 4 frames at the 13-15 board. Near the end of game 2 moved back out to the 7-8 board and was hitting the pocket but leaving corner pins and an 8 pin. Switched to the BWG and stayed outside and hit good and got carry. Game 3 was my toughest but I converted all but 1 spare.
3/5 on 7 pins which is better than usual but still not good enough. And 2nd week in a row that I left more 7's than usual. Left a 2-4-7 and whiffed on that one. Just missed my mark by a mile and dropped it in the gutter. Also missed a 2-4. Ball came in a little higher than I wanted and just missed the 4 pin. But no splits tonight after a bunch last week.

So had high series for my team tonight (yeah my teammates struggled). They had a 607, 576, 518, and 506. So average is up to 180 now. Last year I finished this league at 179.76 but I finished this past summer league at 188.66 so I'm still down but confident I can get into the 190's.

Something I was thinking about today. Back in my previous bowling career we had paper and pencil. I always sat at the scorekeeper table and kept score or at least sat in the seat closest to the approach and watched every ball thrown. My mind was focused on bowling from start to finish. Now we don't have those seats so I go back and sit and socialize. I am not as focused as I was back then. Tried to keep my mind more into it tonight.

https://i.postimg.cc/6qgdMJ6n/2019-10-08.png (https://postimages.org/)

[J Daisy]

BOOM! 610!
So after 55 weeks of bowling in the fall league and carrying a 180 average I only have 4 600's. And summer league is 4 games series and in 23 weeks I have 3 800's. Tells me I'm pretty consistent?
So anyway, we won 2/3 tonight. Talked to a a few guys tonight saying everyone is struggling and is about 10 pins lower than they usually are. Talked to one at the end of the night that is a 225 bowler that is averaging 205 this year and said he might quit. Said they approaches are so sticky he can't get a good release. He had an S9 on and said the 10 is too slick. Our highest average bowler so far this year is 218. Last year we had about 5 guys over 220. Anyway, this guy said he polished his Squatch pearl cause the lanes have been so dry. Said he bowled a 771 the other night with it and tonight had a 734. Said it works perfect now.

So on to my game. Said I was going in with a positive attitude and would not get down. Started with the Squatch and all was going well. Kept my slide foot slightly ahead at my start to open my hips and shoulders. Did that all night. Started targeting the 8-10 board and worked well. Only open in game 1 was a missed 7. Left the pinky untucked until the end of game 1. Game 2 started with a 5 bagger then the transition hit. Struggled there but didn't give up. Started moving inside but couldn't get any consistency. Kept missing either light or heavy. Threw about 3 or 4 frames at the 13-15 board. Near the end of game 2 moved back out to the 7-8 board and was hitting the pocket but leaving corner pins and an 8 pin. Switched to the BWG and stayed outside and hit good and got carry. Game 3 was my toughest but I converted all but 1 spare.
3/5 on 7 pins which is better than usual but still not good enough. And 2nd week in a row that I left more 7's than usual. Left a 2-4-7 and whiffed on that one. Just missed my mark by a mile and dropped it in the gutter. Also missed a 2-4. Ball came in a little higher than I wanted and just missed the 4 pin. But no splits tonight after a bunch last week.

So had high series for my team tonight (yeah my teammates struggled). They had a 607, 576, 518, and 506. So average is up to 180 now. Last year I finished this league at 179.76 but I finished this past summer league at 188.66 so I'm still down but confident I can get into the 190's.

Something I was thinking about today. Back in my previous bowling career we had paper and pencil. I always sat at the scorekeeper table and kept score or at least sat in the seat closest to the approach and watched every ball thrown. My mind was focused on bowling from start to finish. Now we don't have those seats so I go back and sit and socialize. I am not as focused as I was back then. Tried to keep my mind more into it tonight.

https://i.postimg.cc/6qgdMJ6n/2019-10-08.png (https://postimages.org/)
Nice score! I only bowled with manual scorekeeping on paper once, but apparently there are still some places set up like that. Mostly bars and firehouses with 4-6 lanes. If it helps you to bowl that way, maybe it's worth looking into. Some of them even have leagues, or so I hear.

[boatman37]

BOOM!!! Another 600! And 2 weeks in a row I'm high series on our team. At the end of the night I heard somebody say everyone struggled tonight except our PSO (no idea what he rolled). Wasn't looking good for a 600 but pulled through at the end. Lanes were extremely dry. I saw the transition but struggled to figure out what to do with it. Our whole team was struggling with corner pins all night. I started with the Squatch pearl and did decent till about the 5th frame of game 1 then started coming in light. Seems when it starts drying up on me my ball starts hitting light. I moved in a little but no luck. Changed balls, tucked pinky, picked up speed. Nothing helped. Tucking my pinky helped about 2 frames then started leaving 7s again. Tried the BWG and the Conspiracy. Knew the Conspiracy was the wrong way to go being my most aggressive ball but nothing else worked. Tried it more inside but still left 7's. Finally near the end of game 3 I moved in to the 11-12 board back to the Squatch and threw a 4 bagger and finished up by tugging the 12th frame for a 225. Needed a 223 for a 600.

Left 7 7 pins tonight. And covered all 7! 100% on 7 pins. I don't think I have ever left 7 7's in one night before and pretty sure I have never covered 7 in a night. Those were the only single pins I left all night. Twice tonight I chopped the 5-8 so that sucked.

So knew what I was seeing but it took me awhile to fix it. I lack confidence playing inside the 10 board cause I'm very erratic inside for whatever reason but tonight I was hitting it good. That helps my confidence for next time. I saw middle of game 1 a nice pocket 7. Teammate said I got screwed. I said nope...ball rolled out. I could see it. Usually tucking the pinky and picking up speed fixes that but not tonight. I really considered going to my Rhino as my strike ball (that ball goes almost perfectly straight). When I was targeting the 11-12 board I was using the Squatch with my pinky tucked. Ball had a smooth shallow arc right to the pocket. Wasn't as pretty as those sharp angular shots I'm used to but it worked. Be curious to see how others did tonight but scores haven't been posted yet. I was high man on my team and 2nd high between us and our opponents (to a 607). Bad part was we lost 2 of 3. Went 2-5 tonight. First game we lost by 150. 2nd game we won by 40 and 3rd we lost by about 30. My teammates really struggled bad. They had 467, 509, 535, 562, and my 602. The 562 has a 195 average and the other 3 are all about 180 averages.

So feeling better now. 2 600's in a row. First time I have done that since I came back almost 2 years ago and only my 5th one in that 2 years. My spares got me there tonight. Usually I miss at least 2 or 3 of those 7 pins so that's about 25-35 pins right there. Just hope I can keep it up but it is encouraging that I'm seeing what is happening. Now just need to start adapting to it sooner.

Average is up to 183.25 after 24 games this season....OH...and game 3 was clean!

https://i.postimg.cc/QxszPzC2/2019-10-15.png (https://postimages.org/)

[boatman37]

Best series ever tonight!. Gonna start a new thread for my progress