Pearl vs Solid (preferences)

[boatman37]

So I have 2 solids (Kingpin and Conspiracy) and 2 pearls (Black Widow Gold and Squatch). For the last 4 or 5 months I have only been using the pearls. Tried the solids here and there but just not liking what I see with them. The pearls have seemed to fit my game much better. So are there different types of bowlers where solids just don't fit their game or is it more of a situational thing and my lane conditions have just liked the pearls better?

[RobLV1]

Forget about pearls, hybrids, and solids. It's all about the surface preparation. Making three versions of bowling balls is nothing more than the ball companies trying to sell three of the same product.

[Blacksox1]

So I have 2 solids (Kingpin and Conspiracy) and 2 pearls (Black Widow Gold and Squatch). For the last 4 or 5 months I have only been using the pearls. Tried the solids here and there but just not liking what I see with them. The pearls have seemed to fit my game much better. So are there different types of bowlers where solids just don't fit their game or is it more of a situational thing and my lane conditions have just liked the pearls better?

Sounds like me, except it is solids instead of pearls. :D

[boatman37]

Forget about pearls, hybrids, and solids. It's all about the surface preparation. Making three versions of bowling balls is nothing more than the ball companies trying to sell three of the same product.

I agree with that Rob. I don't think any of my balls are at OOB (other than my new Squatch). Mine are all pretty much at less than OOB surface. I was more wondering if there is something about pearls that agree more with my style. No idea what that might be but if that is the case then I would try to reverse engineer that to figure out why

[bowl1820]

I agree with that Rob. I don't think any of my balls are at OOB (other than my new Squatch). Mine are all pretty much at less than OOB surface. I was more wondering if there is something about pearls that agree more with my style. No idea what that might be but if that is the case then I would try to reverse engineer that to figure out why

I don't believe you quite understood what Rob is talking about in regards to pearls, hybrids, and solids. What he's saying (and he's said it many times before) is that when it comes to pearls, hybrids, and solids there is no difference in them except the surface texture the company put on them (OOB). If you took a companies pearl, hybrid, and solid version of the same ball and drilled them the same and put the same surface texture on them, They would react the same. And the companies are just saying they are different to trick you in to buying more balls.

So it doesn't matter which one you get, it all come down to what surface you put on the ball.

Note there is some documented evidence to back this idea up , it was a video where they took a pearl and solid of the same ball, drilled and sanded them the same etc. etc and there wasn't much if any difference in how they reacted.

You can see it here:
http://www.bowlingboards.com/threads/22518-Solid-vs-Pearl-versions-of-the-same-ball-Compared-Sanded-and-Polished

There's a caveat though, the pearls, hybrids, and solids versions of the same ball, have to be the same to be fully true. Same cores, RG, Diff. numbers, layout etc. If these are different, the balls will react differently (at least to some degree) even if they have the same surface.

Something else to note too, is according to Mo Pinel.
MO:
"There are at least 2 ways to pearlize a ball.
1: If you use powdered pearl, you will NOT add length, just increase the shape of the breakpoint.
2: If you use liquid pearl (mother of pearl), you will definitely add length. "

MO:
"Pearl in the coverstock name refers to the presence of mica flakes in the coverstock. Mica is a 6:1 aspect ratio metal flake. There are different size mica flakes available and pearl comes in different forms. Pearl is available to me in two forms, one is powder and the other is a paste. I get a different ball reaction depending on which one I use. One acts like a performance additive and the other yields brighter colors without adding performance. This is very complicated chemistry and there are no rules here."

This shows there are other ways to "Pearl" a ball, Than just sanding or polishing them to make them react differently.

[boatman37]

So the surface on my pearls is more of the determining factor as to how they have been working for me? My Conspiracy is at 2000. I loved it when I got it but this summer the BWG worked much better. Now I got the Squatch and I noticed both of those pearl balls work better for me than the Conspiracy. So maybe the Conspiracy at 3000 or 4000 might work in the recent conditions? Don't think I will do that though because that is purposely at 2000 in case we have very oily conditions or I need to play the middle part of the lane. Lately they have been more on the dry side and I just haven't liked the reaction of the Conspiracy or Kingpin. The Kingpin is at 1000.

I do have a need for an in between ball after the BWG though. After the BWG all I have is the Rhino and it goes almost straight. I haven't had to ball down from the BWG but I think I have been at that limit and any drier and I would have needed less ball.

[bowl1820]

So I have 2 solids (Kingpin and Conspiracy) and 2 pearls (Black Widow Gold and Squatch). For the last 4 or 5 months I have only been using the pearls. Tried the solids here and there but just not liking what I see with them. The pearls have seemed to fit my game much better. So are there different types of bowlers where solids just don't fit their game or is it more of a situational thing and my lane conditions have just liked the pearls better?

Here I thought I would include this comparison of the four ball you listed.

All four ball are fairly similar in RG and Diff. Three are Asym's to begin with (the Int.Diff. are similar also) and the the fourth is a Sym. (But once drilled it becomes a Asym.)

Do they all have the same layout? If so, I think I would try picking the ball with the reaction you like best at the moment. Take the surface you have on that ball and sand/polish the two "Solids" that same surface and see how they compare to the "pearl" ball.


CompanyBrunswickHammerRadicalRadical
Ball NameKingpinBlack Widow GoldConspiracySquatch
Cover NameECA (Enhanced Composite Adhesion)Semtex PearlForged 2 SolidAi-39
Cover TypeReactive SolidReactive PearlReactive SolidReactive Pearl
Box Finish500 / 1500 SiaAir500 / 1000 Abralon / Powerhouse Factory Finish Polish500 / 3000 SiaAir500 SiaAir / Crown Factory Compound / Crown Factory Polish
ColorBlack / Light Blue / Purple SolidGoldBlackBlack / Teal / Platinum
Core NameKingpin Ultra Low RGGas MaskNANA
Core TypeAsymmetricalAsymmetricalAsymmetricalSymmetrica l
Radius of Gyration (RG)2.4832.502.4872.482
Total Diff.0.0550.0580.0560.054
Int. Diff.0.0200.0160.0210.000

[bowl1820]

Whoops you posted while I was writing.


So the surface on my pearls is more of the determining factor as to how they have been working for me?
More than likely, Their surface is matching up better with your current conditions. That's why I suggested sanding the solids to that same surface. You'd probably would find they would start working better and/or give you something to ball up or ball down to depending on whats happening.


My Conspiracy is at 2000. I loved it when I got it but this summer the BWG worked much better. Now I got the Squatch and I noticed both of those pearl balls work better for me than the Conspiracy. So maybe the Conspiracy at 3000 or 4000 might work in the recent conditions? Don't think I will do that though because that is purposely at 2000 in case we have very oily conditions or I need to play the middle part of the lane. Lately they have been more on the dry side and I just haven't liked the reaction of the Conspiracy or Kingpin. The Kingpin is at 1000.


I do have a need for an in between ball after the BWG though. After the BWG all I have is the Rhino and it goes almost straight. I haven't had to ball down from the BWG but I think I have been at that limit and any drier and I would have needed less ball.

As close as those balls are in spec. something inbetween as far as the numbers are concerned isn't going to be that different.

As is I think just adjust surfaces to give you a big spread in reactions, before buying a new one.

[boatman37]

I did have them all similar at one point but then they all reacted similarly so when conditions got extreme I didn't have anything to go to, at least in my mind. Like I had no options if the lane dried up. Currently my Kingpin stays at home, the Conspiracy is for really oily conditions (which we haven't seen in awhile), the Squatch is my go-to, and the BWG is for game 3 when it starts drying up. The Rhino is at 5000 polished and I use that for 4, 7, and 8 pins. I tried the Rhino at 1000 before to have something if it got real dry but even at 1000 it barely moved

[bowl1820]

I did have them all similar at one point but then they all reacted similarly so when conditions got extreme I didn't have anything to go to, at least in my mind. Like I had no options if the lane dried up.

Okay that's shows you basically have four balls just alike and the spec's kind of bare that out.


Currently my Kingpin stays at home, the Conspiracy is for really oily conditions (which we haven't seen in awhile), the Squatch is my go-to, and the BWG is for game 3 when it starts drying up. The Rhino is at 5000 polished and I use that for 4, 7, and 8 pins.


I tried the Rhino at 1000 before to have something if it got real dry but even at 1000 it barely moved

The Brunswick Rhino Black was a polished ball (OOB: 500 Siaair / Crown Factory Compound / Crown Factory Polish) originally. Now it wasn't a big hooker to begin with, But sanding it to a courser grit (1000) to use on a dry lane would more than likely cause it to read the friction even earlier, straighten out and not do anything. (Which is basically what you said happened "at 1000 it barely moved", assuming nthe lanes weren;t wetter than you thought they were.).

IMO with the 4 balls I assume they are all drilled basically the same, to see bigger changes in reactions between them. You need to have bigger changes in surface grits between them.

Since the Squatch is your go-to ball currently, leave it as is and try to use it as a benchmark and adjust the others in relation to it. Take the one you think would be best for oil sand it, best best for dry polish it etc. see what happens.

[boatman37]

Okay that's shows you basically have four balls just alike and the spec's kind of bare that out.





The Brunswick Rhino Black was a polished ball (OOB: 500 Siaair / Crown Factory Compound / Crown Factory Polish) originally. Now it wasn't a big hooker to begin with, But sanding it to a courser grit (1000) to use on a dry lane would more than likely cause it to read the friction even earlier, straighten out and not do anything. (Which is basically what you said happened "at 1000 it barely moved", assuming nthe lanes weren;t wetter than you thought they were.).

IMO with the 4 balls I assume they are all drilled basically the same, to see bigger changes in reactions between them. You need to have bigger changes in surface grits between them.

Since the Squatch is your go-to ball currently, leave it as is and try to use it as a benchmark and adjust the others in relation to it. Take the one you think would be best for oil sand it, best best for dry polish it etc. see what happens.

Yeah. I have not touched the Squatch and so far it has been perfect for me. When that starts to burn up I switch to the Black Widow Gold. Haven't had to move outside of those 2 balls. I did throw the Conspiracy in warmups the other night cause the Squatch wasn't making the turn but just wasn't comfortable with it so moved slightly left with my feet with the Squatch and it was perfect then.

You might be right about the Rhino going straight. It has been awhile since I tried that and I didn't put much time into working with it.

And yep, all 4 are laid out very similarly. My PSO has never checked my specs so no idea what my PAP or anything else is. He did drill the Kingpin slightly different though. All are pin up just above the ring finger with the MB about 1.5" from the thumbhole. The only one different is the Kingpin and that one has the pin slightly left of the ring finger. Maybe about 3/4" over from where the others are.

I did see him laying out a ball the other night and had all the lines and angles on it like you see Mo do...lol. I asked him about doing those types of layouts and he said he does them sometimes. I told him he will have to check my stats one of these days. That leads me to another question...Probably about 90% of the time I have my pinky tucked. Would I have my PAP and tilt checked with the pinky tucked?

[bowl1820]

I did see him laying out a ball the other night and had all the lines and angles on it like you see Mo do...lol. I asked him about doing those types of layouts and he said he does them sometimes. I told him he will have to check my stats one of these days

He only maps out balls the way your supposed too sometimes??? Does he just do that for the elite customers?? How does he do it the rest of the time? Just eye ball it the way they did 40 or so years ago.

If he wasn't laying out my ball "like MO'" (Meaning using my PAP and mapping the layout on to the ball (Using Dual Angle or pin buffer system)) all the time and for everyone I'd be finding someone else.

[boatman37]

He only maps out balls the way your supposed too sometimes??? Does he just do that for the elite customers?? How does he do it the rest of the time? Just eye ball it the way they did 40 or so years ago.

If he wasn't laying out my ball "like MO'" (Meaning using my PAP and mapping the layout on to the ball (Using Dual Angle or pin buffer system)) all the time and for everyone I'd be finding someone else.

Yeah he has mentioned adjusting layouts based on what you want it to do but without my specs I guess he is just 'eyeballing'. I don't even know of any other pro shops around here to get it checked but I'm sure he would do it if I ask him. I haven't bugged him about it cause I have been trying different things and making adjustments but think I finally have the release with the consistency I need and something I will stick with. I know the one day he checked the owners PAP and I also saw him check another guys PAP that bowls in our league. He has an Armadillo that he used to check them. He also video'd from behind to verify the PAP after marking it. The one he was marking the other day had quite a few markings that looked like he was doing the dual angle layout on. But yeah, I do want to find my PAP and tilt/rotation as well as revs

[RobLV1]

It strikes me that once you have four balls that aren't all pretty much the same, that you will realize how absurd the statement, "I'll find something to stick with" really sounds. Once again I really suggest that you take the time to learn about bowling balls, 'cause it's pretty obvious that your PSO does not have your best interest at heart.

[ALazySavage]

Just for emphasis I looked at the release date of your equipment:

Radical Squatch Pearl: 01/08/2019
Hammer Black Widow Black/Gold: 08/14/2018
Radical Conspiracy: 10/30/2018
Rhino Black Pearl: 05/20/2016?

I guessed on which Rhino you have, but I think this is very telling. At a minimum you have purchased three balls from this PSO in the last year (and that assumes you are purchasing as the ball comes out and not really after the release - if so this becomes even more glaring). You are clearly not an one-time customer (although that is NOT an excuse) and he has yet to give you any customer service, sadly it is time to get a new PSO - you shouldn't have to ask to get mapped out and as Rob said above he likely does not have your best interest in hand. He is using you as a quick sale.

[boatman37]

Rob, what I meant by 'something to stick with' was my approach/release, not ball selection. In the past I had stood square to the foul line and stayed square. Lately (last month or so) I have started with my slide foot about 6" in front of my other foot so my shoulders and hips were slightly angled and also moved about 12" up on the approach to help slow ball speed. My timing has been much better too. Before this I was too inconsistent with everything. And before that I was experimenting with different releases in trying to come around the ball or whatever. Now I keep it one way and not trying to get any extra revs on it, just a 'normal' release for me. And yeah, all 4 of my strike balls are very similar. When I bought them I didn't know enough about what I needed or should have. Now I see that they are all good balls but if I encounter extreme oil or extreme dry then I might have a problem.

I have bought all 5 balls from the same PSO (BWG 1/18, Rhino about 4/18, Kingpin 7/18, Conspiracy 1/19, Squatch 9/19). I have tried surfacing to try to differentiate each ball a little more. The Kingpin is at 1000 and won't work for me on drier conditions like we have seen lately. The Conspiracy is at 2000 and a little less aggressive than the Kingpin, the Squatch at OOB, the BWG at 3000. None are polished except the Rhino Black. But recently I have started to see my lack of variety in my selection. Remember I said in my previous bowling life I used 1 ball and stood at the same spot (give or take 1-2 boards) and target the same spot. When I bought the BWG, Kingpin, and Conspiracy I bought them to replace the previous ball. I started to realize the importance of ball selection about when I bought the Conspiracy back in January. I still didn't understand when or why I needed a certain ball, but knew that there were times I would. Now I'm starting to understand ball technology a little more.

I'm curious as to how the PSO drills for others in the league or on his team. Haven't paid much attention to his teammates drilling on theirs to see if the layouts vary. Seems like for the most part the ones I have seen that he has done are similar to mine with the pin just above the ring finger and the MB about 1.5" from the thumbhole.

[boatman37]

[QUOTE=ALazySavage;175316]Just for emphasis I looked at the release date of your equipment:

Radical Squatch Pearl: 01/08/2019 (bought 9/19)
Hammer Black Widow Black/Gold: 08/14/2018 actually the Gold, not black/gold, bought 1/18)
Radical Conspiracy: 10/30/2018 (bought 1/19)
Rhino Black Pearl: 05/20/2016? (bought 4/18)/QUOTE]

[RobLV1]

Okay, let me tell you about my philosophy about layouts. If you use different layouts to get different ball reactions as PSO's often recommend, you have no way of knowing, before you change, what each ball is going to do. If, however, you use one or two layouts for all of your bowling balls, and learn about the properties of the cores, you can accurately predict what the ball is going to do before you change. Many, many well-known pros use limited layouts. Pete Weber told me that he does. At one point in time, back when I used to keep track of such things, I was able to strike 16 straight times after making a mid-game ball change. The system works, IF you take the time to learn about the cores.

[boatman37]

In the last couple of weeks I started understanding the Squatch vs BWG much better. Not so much about the technology of each but what one does vs the other. I haven't used the Conspiracy or Kingpin enough lately to do much with them but the Conspiracy at 2000 definitely reads earlier than both of those. But starting to grasp RG and Diff a little better.