PBA League Telecast

[RobLV1]

It seems that every year I feel the need to ask the question: Being that watching the PBA League telecast is the most valuable thing that a league bowler can do to learn about how to adjust to changing lane conditions, why is it that no-one seems to want to discuss it? Did you watch? Did you learn anything?

[boatman37]

I have watched everything up to the first 2 games last night but haven't seen the rest. I recorded it so will probably watch it on my lunch break today. I think the biggest thing I learn from it is about the oil patterns and the breakdown. The tinted oil helps to illustrate that. I always watch closely at the beginning when they announce the pattern and Randy describes the way to play them. Since my experience on sport patterns is extremely limited it's nice to learn about them.

[J Anderson]

It seems that every year I feel the need to ask the question: Being that watching the PBA League telecast is the most valuable thing that a league bowler can do to learn about how to adjust to changing lane conditions, why is it that no-one seems to want to discuss it? Did you watch? Did you learn anything?

So far I have watched everything except the finals. Mostly watching as a fan and being disappointed when my favorite bowlers’ teams have been eliminated. Still have two favs in the hunt, one of whom I have known since he was in high school.

I want to discuss the shows. I’ve just been waiting for someone else to start the thread.

I have learned:
That the pros can make a sport shot look easy.
Very few teams can overcome an open frame unless the other team opens as well.

I have questions too:
Does it seem like the racks are slow coming down? Or is it just that the balls are traveling 3-5 mph faster than the average league bowler throws?
Does it seem like a lot of hits that look like the are dead on the nose are getting strikes instead of splits?
Do you ever see this many tripped 4 pins in your league?

Thank for starting the conversation Rob.
p.s. are you rooting for Las Vegas?

[Ryster]

It seems that every year I feel the need to ask the question: Being that watching the PBA League telecast is the most valuable thing that a league bowler can do to learn about how to adjust to changing lane conditions, why is it that no-one seems to want to discuss it? Did you watch? Did you learn anything?

I learned that while the pros are talented with incredible hand/eye coordination, they rely heavily on equipment changes and manufacturer staffers to suggest things to them to try. A couple of players may have tweaked their release slightly, but most were simply adjusting ball speed more than anything. How many times last night did we see Wes Malott try different balls and layouts on his fill shots? I get that he is bowling for a championship, but seriously. Buries two shots in the 10th, then tries a different ball to see what kind of look he has on a lane he won't be bowling on for the next game. Kind of pointless. Weak layout vs. strong layout vs. Rubicon vs. Hyper Cell...whatever. Andrew Anderson was switching back and forth between a Zing and a Bonus. I thought he should have stayed with the Zing as the Bonus seemed a little weak for the shot. He got it to work, but it didn't give him the same kind of area the Zing was giving him.

Tim Mack, the manager of the Lumberjacks, was getting a little overbearing with his constant "One good shot!", "Which ball...weak or strong...", "What did you do there", "What is your plan" type of comments all night. At one point Malott shot him some side eye and said "It was just a bad shot. I plan to throw it better next time, that's all".

The ball tracking analysis showed that all of the right-handed players were basically feeding their equipment up the same line, to the same break point. As a result, the players were sharing intelligence amongst themselves but even that has its limits. Scores started to suffer a little when the left lane started to carry down, leaving some of the players scratching their heads. At one point, Randy Pedersen asked manager Amletto Monicelli what his plan was for his players on the left lane, and even Amletto said basically "good question...I guess we will just adjust as needed but not that much."

Overall, the telecasts were fun to watch and I look forward to the PBA League every year. The telecasts coming up this weekend will probably be better suited for actually learning from since we will be able to focus more on individual bowlers and how they progress through 10 full frames themselves instead of only bowling 2 frames per game.

[chrono00]

I always miss tv shows. It’s like impossible to search for bowling on Comcast Cable. Is there a website anywhere that has up to date times on when PBA telecasts happen and what channels so i can find them to dvr?

[Ryster]

I always miss tv shows. It’s like impossible to search for bowling on Comcast Cable. Is there a website anywhere that has up to date times on when PBA telecasts happen and what channels so i can find them to dvr?

I have Comcast. I do a search by keyword for "BOWLING", and will get all bowling telecasts scheduled for the next 14 days both new and repeats, pro, men, women, college.

PBA.com also has the PBA television schedule posted.

There are 2 new shows this Sunday on FS1. First is 5:30-7:30PM, second is 7:30-9:30PM.
There is also 1 new show on Monday on FS1 at 9PM

https://www.pba.com/Television

Just did a BOWLING keyword search and several of the recent shows are repeating over the next few days as well.

[chrono00]

I have Comcast. I do a search by keyword for "BOWLING", and will get all bowling telecasts scheduled for the next 14 days both new and repeats, pro, men, women, college.

PBA.com also has the PBA television schedule posted.

There are 2 new shows this Sunday on FS1. First is 5:30-7:30PM, second is 7:30-9:30PM.
There is also 1 new show on Monday on FS1 at 9PM

https://www.pba.com/Television

Just did a BOWLING keyword search and several of the recent shows are repeating over the next few days as well.

Yea Comcast will show stuff, but the new/repeat part isn’t always right and they way the results come up it’s hard to figure out which is what. I’ll check the website thanks

[bowl1820]

I learned that while the pros are talented with incredible hand/eye coordination, they rely heavily on equipment changes and manufacturer staffers to suggest things to them to try. A couple of players may have tweaked their release slightly, but most were simply adjusting ball speed more than anything.

The pros do have that option to rely on equipment changes more than regular bowlers, They know their equipment and how it performs better than regular players typically do about theirs and have more access to extra equipment. (I have more balls than a lot of players, but I only have a basic knowledge of their comparative performance, which is more than a lot players have. But my level of knowledge to me only lets me make gross adjustments and not quite the fine tuning adjustments that the pros do.)


The ball tracking analysis showed that all of the right-handed players were basically feeding their equipment up the same line, to the same break point. As a result, the players were sharing intelligence amongst themselves but even that has its limits.

This is one of those things that makes it hard for people to equate what the pros do to a normal league situation. On a average league you don't typically have teams made up of players that all bowl the same line, with similar styles etc. which is going to break down the pattern in a more predictable way. Plus having a team of players that all can coordinate their adjustments off of each others shots.

This is where I'd like to see a real league night with ordinary players on the blue oil, with the tracking. Then go back and dissect those games

[boatman37]

The pros do have that option to rely on equipment changes more than regular bowlers, They know their equipment and how it performs better than regular players typically do about theirs and have more access to extra equipment. (I have more balls than a lot of players, but I only have a basic knowledge of their comparative performance, which is more than a lot players have. But my level of knowledge to me only lets me make gross adjustments and not quite the fine tuning adjustments that the pros do.)



This is one of those things that makes it hard for people to equate what the pros do to a normal league situation. On a average league you don't typically have teams made up of players that all bowl the same line, with similar styles etc. which is going to break down the pattern in a more predictable way. Plus having a team of players that all can coordinate their adjustments off of each others shots.

This is where I'd like to see a real league night with ordinary players on the blue oil, with the tracking. Then go back and dissect those games


Agreed on typical league night. We have about 15 high revvers in our league that throw just like the pros, about 25 or so that throw a straighter line to the pocket and the rest somewhere in between. Oh, and then there are about 10 lefties that have no impact on the right side of the lane. Last year we had 3 lefties on my team but we all had 3 different lines and styles. I would love to see the tinted oil in leagues

[J Anderson]

Agreed on typical league night. We have about 15 high revvers in our league that throw just like the pros, about 25 or so that throw a straighter line to the pocket and the rest somewhere in between. Oh, and then there are about 10 lefties that have no impact on the right side of the lane. Last year we had 3 lefties on my team but we all had 3 different lines and styles. I would love to see the tinted oil in leagues

Who ever does your laundry probably wouldn't like it.

I doubt if the pros pay much if any attention to the blue. They have trained themselves to watch for how their balls are moving. It is now a well known fact among them that lane topography has a bigger effect on ball motion than the oil pattern.

[bowl1820]

It is now a well known fact among them that lane topography has a bigger effect on ball motion than the oil pattern.

Yes, lane topography does have a big impact on ball motion. But in away knowing that, it doesn't particularly help the ordinary league bowler. We don't get lane maps like the pros do, So we can't look at it and say this lane will play like this or that.

Now most (regular) bowlers IMO know that the lanes down there play different than the ones down here and they already try to adjust for it.

This difference they chalk up to lane wear (aka: topography), not so much thinking the oil is different, most assume their lanes are basically oiled the same and they already try to adjust for the wear.

Now topography doesn't change (noticeably) over the course of a series, But a oil pattern can change drastically over the course of a series.

So having the blue oil (at least once in awhile) and being able to see it change as the series progress's might be more beneficial to the average bowler. That and paying attention to how their balls reaction changes like the pros do than overly worrying about topography.

[RobLV1]

I have questions too:
Does it seem like the racks are slow coming down? Or is it just that the balls are traveling 3-5 mph faster than the average league bowler throws? I think that it's just the difference in ball speeds that make it seem that the racks are slower.
Does it seem like a lot of hits that look like the are dead on the nose are getting strikes instead of splits? I think that this perception is a result of the pros' ability to pick bowling balls and adjust their ball speeds to insure that the balls are entering the pins at peak power; most league bowlers get the ball into the dry too early so they can see it hook to impress their friends (LOL). I first noticed this years ago when I used to practice regularly with Wendy Macpherson. Her ball would look like the Big Four was in her future, and she would strike. I think that this control of maximum energy also explains the plethora of tripped four pins.
Do you ever see this many tripped 4 pins in your league?

Thank for starting the conversation Rob.
p.s. are you rooting for Las Vegas? Honestly I didn't know their was a Vegas team before the telecasts started. Once I found out, yes I was rooting for this, but before the telecasts, I was planning on rooting for Portland. As it worked out, I couldn't lose in the finals!

Thanks for your response.

[RobLV1]

Yes, lane topography does have a big impact on ball motion. But in away knowing that, it doesn't particularly help the ordinary league bowler. We don't get lane maps like the pros do, So we can't look at it and say this lane will play like this or that. I really don't believe that the lane maps are the key to playing the topography. What is key is that bowlers [I]accept[I] the fact that topography does affect the lanes as much as, if not more than, oil pattern. The analogy that I used in the last BTM article that I wrote was that of Black Holes. Astronomers know that black holes exist despite the fact that they can't see them. They know because they observe the motion of the stars around the black hole. Bowlers can easily see the topography by noticing the motion of their bowling balls as they travel down the lane surface.

Now topography doesn't change (noticeably) over the course of a series, But a oil pattern can change drastically over the course of a series. While the topography doesn't change over the course of a series, how much it affects the ball does change as the oil changes. When a particular topological feature is covered with oil, the ball will be sliding over it, minimizing it's effect on the motion of the ball. As the oil dries up, friction increases, letting the topography rear it's ugly head. When the feature is negative (angling away from the pocket), the ball will appear to slide further, causing many bowlers to start talking about carry down. It's not carry down, it is simply the emergency of negative topography in the friction.

Always nice talking with you, Al.

[J Anderson]

Thanks for your response.

"Does it seem like a lot of hits that look like the are dead on the nose are getting strikes instead of splits? I think that this perception is a result of the pros' ability to pick bowling balls and adjust their ball speeds to insure that the balls are entering the pins at peak power; most league bowlers get the ball into the dry too early so they can see it hook to impress their friends (LOL). I first noticed this years ago when I used to practice regularly with Wendy Macpherson. Her ball would look like the Big Four was in her future, and she would strike. I think that this control of maximum energy also explains the plethora of tripped four pins.

I've been thinking some more about this. If you were to ask Ron Hatfield what the pocket is, he would answer the 17.5 board. I think that he can and does quote a study that found balls that hit the pins at this spot result in a strike at least 97% of the time no matter what the angle and speed were. Depending on where you're standing, or the position of the camera in the case of watching on TV, this might very well look like the ball is hitting the center of the head pin. And of course years ago when we all played much straighter we would much rather hit 16-1/2 hoping for a mixer than to hit 18-1/2 and leave a 6-7-10.

[Ryster]

There have been bowlers asking for the tinted lane conditioner at our center so they can watch the path of their ball. The bowling center manager has repeatedly replied "No. Absolutely not." I agree with the bowling center manager. It would be an absolute mess to deal with. If regular bowlers want to see their ball track on the lane, they can go to a center with the Clutch bowling system installed. We have one about 20 miles down the road. By the 3rd game, I would bet the novelty wears off.

[bowl1820]

There have been bowlers asking for the tinted lane conditioner at our center so they can watch the path of their ball. The bowling center manager has repeatedly replied "No. Absolutely not." I agree with the bowling center manager. It would be an absolute mess to deal with. If regular bowlers want to see their ball track on the lane, they can go to a center with the Clutch bowling system installed. We have one about 20 miles down the road. By the 3rd game, I would bet the novelty wears off.

The main reason bowling centers don't want to use the blue oil, IMO besides cost they don't want to hear the complaints from the bowlers when they realize just how little oil they are putting on the lanes and how fast it burns off.

Of course you'd have people complaining about it getting on their clothes too.

That's why so many houses treat the house oil pattern like some state secret and won't tell you anything about it or show you a print out. They don't want to hear everyone start complaining.

[Ryster]

The main reason bowling centers don't want to use the blue oil, IMO besides cost they don't want to hear the complaints from the bowlers when they realize just how little oil they are putting on the lanes and how fast it burns off.

Of course you'd have people complaining about it getting on their clothes too.

That's why so many houses treat the house oil pattern like some state secret and won't tell you anything about it or show you a print out. They don't want to hear everyone start complaining.

Hahaha...most bowlers at our center complain weekly about the house pattern. It never seems to be the same, and the manager admits that there is constant tweaking of the pattern to always try to offer the "best reaction".