Ball Surface Question

[classygranny]

Help me out here, please.

Remember that I recently dropped to 12# due to recent elbow surgery. Probably never be able to go up in weight right-handed, and left-handed was not very successful.

So, I have a Storm Alpha-Cruz which rarely comes out of the bag, as it breaks way too much for the usual lane conditions at my two houses. This ball has the same core as the heavier weight balls.

I have a Storm Tropical Surge. Symmetrical core (same in all weights). I LOVE the shape this ball gives. I LOVE the way it reads the lanes. And it hits hard for me. Unfortunately, late in league with 5 member teams, or in the heat of summer, or when the oil is a bit lighter than normal, I have to keep moving and moving left. Once I get into about standing 28-30 and shooting around 15, I don't carry as well. Also, I tend to loose a bit of accuracy. And, by that time, my fatigue may step in to hamper things as well.

So, I got a Motive Thrill with the idea that I could go straighter down the lane. Only a few times have a felt that it was the "right" ball at the "right" time.

What, if anything, can I do to the Motive so I feel it "finishes" a bit stronger. The shape is definitely down and in playing out around 5 to7 on most of the lane conditions, sometimes can even move in to 12 or so. But, most of the time, I just don't feel it hits strong enough.

Now, while I know quite a bit about bowling, I will be the first to admit, it is difficult for me to "read" my own ball reaction, so I am unsure if the Motive is losing energy or not, but my gut feeling tells me it is not.

BTW - I am not speed dominant (@11) nor rev dominant (@125)

[Ryster]

The Motiv Thrill has a lower differential than the Tropical Surge, so it is going to go longer before turning over just by the nature of the design. The Tropical Surge also has a lower "base" grit on the cover compared to the Thrill. You could try knocking some of the polish off of the Thrill with a 4000 abralon pad...not too much, just enough to break the cover. This might give it a little earlier read and a more defined back end reaction. The risk in doing it, is that it will start to react similarly to the Tropical Surge and then you will have 2 balls that react almost the same.

Do the Tropical Surge and the Thrill have the same layout on them? If not, that could be part of the explanation for the difference in reaction as well.

[RobLV1]

The Motiv Thrill has a lower differential than the Tropical Surge, so it is going to go longer before turning over just by the nature of the design. The Tropical Surge also has a lower "base" grit on the cover compared to the Thrill. You could try knocking some of the polish off of the Thrill with a 4000 abralon pad...not too much, just enough to break the cover. This might give it a little earlier read and a more defined back end reaction.

BTW, unless you're a high rev player, differential doesn't mean diddly!

[Timmyb]

BTW, unless you're a high rev player, differential doesn't mean diddly!

OMG, thank you. I've never really paid attention to that number. RG seems to play a bigger role in my game. Just about every piece of equipment I own is around 2.48. I just play with the surface to get it to behave depending on what I'm bowling on. That may or may not be right, but it's what works for me.

[boatman37]

This kind of leads me to a rookie question. When I think of revs I think of it in 2 different ways. Does it matter if the revs are forward rolling or side rolling? Say you have a suitcase style release and your ball skids through the fronts and mids while rotating perpendicular to the gutters. We have a teammate whose ball really doesn't have any forward roll until the end of the pattern. It revs pretty hard sideways though and stays pretty straight until the end of the pattern then turns hard right (he is a lefty too).

With my old flat release my ball rolled probably 85% forward with about 15% side roll if that makes sense? Now with the added rotation I'm probably more 65% forward and 35% side. This is probably caused by axis tilt or axis rotation changes but also partially due to me getting more forward rotation as I do get a little wrist flick at release. I still catch myself not getting this flick as it's still not built into muscle memory yet. I can tell the difference. The ball will deflect more and not drive through the pins and also doesn't turn as hard when it bites.

Talked to my PSO and he was going to check my stats but then he tested positive for COVID and missed a few weeks so he is now trying to get caught back up. I was definitely speed dominant before. I did a 'rookie' rev count awhile back with tape and stopwatch and calculated my RPMs at about 325 and my speed at the pins was usually around 16.7. Now I'm guessing I'm closer to 350-375 RPM but my speed is down to about 15.5 at the pins.

So back to my original question...lol. If you increase side roll but not forward roll is it still a rev increase? I'm guessing it is?

[J Anderson]

This kind of leads me to a rookie question. When I think of revs I think of it in 2 different ways. Does it matter if the revs are forward rolling or side rolling? Say you have a suitcase style release and your ball skids through the fronts and mids while rotating perpendicular to the gutters. We have a teammate whose ball really doesn't have any forward roll until the end of the pattern. It revs pretty hard sideways though and stays pretty straight until the end of the pattern then turns hard right (he is a lefty too).

With my old flat release my ball rolled probably 85% forward with about 15% side roll if that makes sense? Now with the added rotation I'm probably more 65% forward and 35% side. This is probably caused by axis tilt or axis rotation changes but also partially due to me getting more forward rotation as I do get a little wrist flick at release. I still catch myself not getting this flick as it's still not built into muscle memory yet. I can tell the difference. The ball will deflect more and not drive through the pins and also doesn't turn as hard when it bites.

Talked to my PSO and he was going to check my stats but then he tested positive for COVID and missed a few weeks so he is now trying to get caught back up. I was definitely speed dominant before. I did a 'rookie' rev count awhile back with tape and stopwatch and calculated my RPMs at about 325 and my speed at the pins was usually around 16.7. Now I'm guessing I'm closer to 350-375 RPM but my speed is down to about 15.5 at the pins.

So back to my original question...lol. If you increase side roll but not forward roll is it still a rev increase? I'm guessing it is?

Revs are revs, just a measure of how fast the ball is rotating. If you say you’re getting more side roll and less forward roll you are probably talking about a change in axis rotation, not revs. You may feel and maybe you really are getting another 25 to 50 rpms on the ball but unless you check it you won’t really know.

[boatman37]

Revs are revs, just a measure of how fast the ball is rotating. If you say you’re getting more side roll and less forward roll you are probably talking about a change in axis rotation, not revs. You may feel and maybe you really are getting another 25 to 50 rpms on the ball but unless you check it you won’t really know.

Yeah I'm just guessing at the change. Definitely want to get it checked out but hard to do with everything going on. Right now we aren't even sure if we will be bowling from one week to the next

[Ryster]

Yeah I'm just guessing at the change. Definitely want to get it checked out but hard to do with everything going on. Right now we aren't even sure if we will be bowling from one week to the next

You can only take it one week (or day) at a time. We are in the same boat on the Eastern side of PA. Philly is shutting down all bowling centers in the city starting tomorrow until at least the first week of January. I am in a neighboring county, and our cases are surging as well, however the county said yesterday they have no plans for any shutdowns like Philly is implementing.

I saw that Allegheny County out West is getting kind of "testy" and issued a stay-at-home advisory. Yet they aren't really closing anything yet. Kind of pointless from a mitigation perspective.


This Storm video has a simple way to estimate your rev rate. Never tried this, but it seems easy enough to do in practice
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yccbhBI-Yy0

[boatman37]

Yeah Allegheny county is getting hit hard. They showed on the news a bunch of businesses boarding up their windows and just closing completely. 25% capacity isn't enough to pay the bills and most were barely treading water after the last shutdown. I think they are just throwing in the towel now. For those unaware Pittsburgh is in Allegheny County. I'm about 50 miles north of downtown Pittsburgh 2 counties away. Our county hasn't changed much yet but our center is in Beaver County (Beaver County is between my county and Pittsburgh) and Beaver County has started tightening up the rules the last few days.

They have a tournament scheduled for 12/6 and I'm planning on entering it but will see what happens

[Ryster]

Our local association tournament starts tomorrow, and runs all this weekend and next weekend. I would have liked to have bowled in it, but felt it might be a little too risky so I decided against it. Bowling league once a week and otherwise staying out of the bowling center seems the prudent move right now.

Getting back to ball surface, for those that have a spinner at home do you find it works way better than changing surface by hand? Which spinner do you have, and how messy does it get using it? Trying to decide if I need to add a spinner to my bowling tools, but do not want to have to worry about mounting it in a tub or putting plastic/dropcloth on the wall behind it when I use it or anything like that...

[boatman37]

I have the Innovtive single speed spinner. It flings some water droplets around but not bad. I keep mine in the garage under my bench then just pull it out when I need it. You could always keep an old towel or plastic sheet nearby and hang it behind the spinner and wear an old shirt or get a shop apron.

[bowl1820]

Our local association tournament starts tomorrow, and runs all this weekend and next weekend. I would have liked to have bowled in it, but felt it might be a little too risky so I decided against it. Bowling league once a week and otherwise staying out of the bowling center seems the prudent move right now.


Getting back to ball surface, for those that have a spinner at home do you find it works way better than changing surface by hand?

Spinners give a more consistent surface and allow you to work faster. A spinner is a good investment if you are really into bowling, have lots of balls, change surfaces all the time. And you can always charge your friends to do their ball and make the money back;);)

Now there's a lower cost option that is used by many to sand balls and that's the Polish Your Ball system you might take a look at and theres other threads here about it. If you only have a few balls and only sand them every now and then, this isn't a bad option.

https://www.polishyourball.com/


Which spinner do you have, and how messy does it get using it?
I have 2 Innovative spinners, Innovative built spinners usually were considered a high quality spinner at the time I bought mine and are still are top notch.

I still have the one I started with years ago, a 1/4hp one, it's tiny and it still works. My main one though is a pro shop tub mount,which I've had it for years.

Their not that messy unless you use lots of water or big blobs of polish that will sling off the ball. That's not say spray doesn't come of the ball , you have to use common sense.



Trying to decide if I need to add a spinner to my bowling tools, but do not want to have to worry about mounting it in a tub or putting plastic/dropcloth on the wall behind it when I use it or anything like that...

A lot table top spinners come with a splash guard on them that you can get as a option:
https://photos.offerup.com/tIo-SytTPBj6IIcf0qxOrCdCn_4=/600x337/d912/d912e62099fc4fb8a6b38fdff10c904a.jpg

Most people who get a table top spinner like these:
https://www.truetop5review.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/01/Best-Bowling-Ball-Spinner-1.jpg

Just wet their pads or use a water spray bottle and just sit them in a cardboard box or cheap plastic tub to catch the spray of the ball. you don't have to mount it in tub unless your going to use a running water or recirculating water system on the ball (Like my proshop spinner)

[Ryster]

This is great info, thanks!

[SRB57]

I also have the innovative ball spinner the 1/2 hp model and it also has a pot that goes around it to keep splash down to a minimun. It saves a lot of time just cleaning or changing the surface. I keep it on bench in the basement and the area stays clean. Well worth the investment IMO. Steve

[Stormed1]

I just built a wooden 3 sided surround for mine.I put a shel across the back of it to sit my pads on. Mines an Innovative that i bought in 1998. I had to replace the motor 4 years ago. So I replaced it with a 2 speed motor

[classygranny]

I have the Inovative spinner. To keep the mess down, my PSO suggested spraying the pad with water, rather than spraying the ball. Keeps the splatter down.

On my motive, I took it down 1 step from the original. Last night, it worked like "yuck" at the lanes I was hoping that would be the solution to. This morning it worked fairly well at the alley I thought I wouldn't be able to use it. Was able to play down and in a bit more than normal. Takes alot of resistance off my elbow.

Yes, I struggle a while back - and it's been a struggle to feel normal since my elbow surgery. The past few weeks, I have to say, I feel like I am over the hump. Now, I just have to get my timing under control with the lower weight ball and figure out how to pick up spares....ugh!

[boatman37]

I keep a small tupperware container there and dip the pad in it. I normally use cleaner by hand but if I just finished surfacing I put the cleaner on the towel then rub it into the towel then wipe it on the ball before turning the spinner on. Otherwise it flings everywhere